about $2.5 to $3 mill per season. Not really sure he will be a target. He misses quite a few blocks and while he is much better than the previous occupants, they can probably do better.
Although I think a RT is more of a need than Brown.
but it is such an advantage to see this guy jump right in and not only learn the offense but make a huge difference. He also seems to get along with his teammates. The culture of this team is such a priority and he seems to fit the culture.
It would have to be more than they paid Omameh. I am just hoping DG gets it done before the end of the season.
As for a FA RT, I like Cam Fleming still. He filled in nicely for Tyron Smith in Dallas for a few weeks and did a nice job last year as a back up RT in NE. He signed a one year deal with Dallas this offseason for around $2,000,000. He should be an affordable RT candidate.
that would be great. He's young and healthy and while he needs to improve, he has helped tremendously. I would prefer that a contract be tied to incentives such as starting game day bonuses. Spotrac has him valued similar to Bulaga of GB whom is earning $6.7M/yr and Veldheer of Den whom is earning $7M/yr.
RE: My guess we'll want him back and so will a lot of other teams Â
I agree, and if we can upgrade the center and RT next to him he will be better.
It can't be understated how poor play from those 2 positions can drag down the one good lineman between the 2.
People also need to keep in mind that his first week from being picked up off waivers was his first game action since last year. He started the year suspended and never regained his starting position. He is an extremely large man and while he was in shape, there is a difference between being in game shape. On top of that, he had flew to NY and picked up the playbook, but couldn't stay at the facility due to our bye-week and the CBA preventing team contact with players (outside of those getting medical treatment). He then had to fly back to LA and then fly back to NY on the Sunday to report to the facility on Monday starting that same week.
His spot needs to be upgraded. Be glad to see him resigned. He’s serviceable and would be good depth but would like to see them spend their 2nd round pick again on a guard or guard/center.
I don't think it means we are desperate....we need dept...look around league...flowers and omameh are starting the left side for the jags. that's why they suck...cant have enough linemen
I don't think it means we are desperate....we need dept...look around league...flowers and omameh are starting the left side for the jags. that's why they suck...cant have enough linemen
I already pretty much stated what JonC said (without desperation). Brown is better than what was there, but he still misses too many blocks. However, I think C and RT are bigger needs, but I would not pass up on improving RG also. I would not mind re-signing him at a reasonable salary, because competent backups are needed.
His spot needs to be upgraded. Be glad to see him resigned. He’s serviceable and would be good depth but would like to see them spend their 2nd round pick again on a guard or guard/center.
Ideally they would upgrade him, but center and RT are both in much more urgent need of an upgrade. Not to mention pass rusher, safety, LB, QB etc.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back. A starting OL of: Solder-Hernandez-Paradis (other FA)-Brown-Rd 2 Pick could actually get the unit to average or better. And an OL where Brown is the "weak link" could be solid and significantly better than this years with Pulley or Wheeler the weak link.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
Look, we can't afford studs at every position on the o-line and still Â
be able to have good players on defense and top position players like Beckham and Barkley. Brown isn't the best guard in the league - not even close. But he'll be good enough at right guard if we can upgrade right tackle and center.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
I think you are foolish. Olineman are a hot commodity on the market right now. If you have one that will be serviceable, you try to keep him. The draft with Olineman can be a crap shoot. Hernandez is great, but I feel like we got lucky with that pick, seeing how boom or bust Olineman are these days.
I think with better talent on both sides of him, Brown can be better then he currently is. How bad Pulley and Wheeler are cannot be understated.
over his predecessors, and o-line performance has improved since he took over at RG. Yes they can improve over him, but with all the holes currently on this team (particularly on the o-line) I think they sign him to a cap friendly contract and concentrate on the other positions of need this off-season; of course this could change should a top flight RG be available when the Giants pick in a later round
The Giants are now a very attractive home for FA OL. Â
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
I think you are foolish. Olineman are a hot commodity on the market right now. If you have one that will be serviceable, you try to keep him. The draft with Olineman can be a crap shoot. Hernandez is great, but I feel like we got lucky with that pick, seeing how boom or bust Olineman are these days.
I think with better talent on both sides of him, Brown can be better then he currently is. How bad Pulley and Wheeler are cannot be understated.
Did even you read my post? I said to keep Brown and try and upgrade RT with a FA and RG with a draft pick. And, at worst, they have Halapio to upgrade from Pully (and he is an upgrade from Pulley). Geesh.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
His spot needs to be upgraded. Be glad to see him resigned. He’s serviceable and would be good depth but would like to see them spend their 2nd round pick again on a guard or guard/center.
He played well for the Rams last year, was suspended and lost his job to Austin Blythe who is playing like an all pro. Brown came in DURING the season and played well from day 1. No he’s not perfect, but he is young and a proven starter in this league. When some people say a lineman has “his ups and downs” they realize this happens to every lineman to ever play football? You get beat sometimes.
He came in and the line instantly improved. That wasn’t a coincidence. Don’t break the bank but lock up our RG spot!
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
Halapio coming back could push the need for a C down on the list.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
Sure. That would be another good way to do it. I get the feeling they like Halapio and think he might be ok as their center but that's more of a guess than anything solid. And it depends on who they think might be available in the draft (and as a FA).
He is a starting caliber player at guard. I'm asking this as if he could play tackle, you could lock him up and get a center in free agency. Depending on how the draft shakes out, he could play either tackle or guard.
I think he gets a contract similar to Omameh. I would have no problem with that.
RE: Does anybody think he can play right tackle? Â
He is a starting caliber player at guard. I'm asking this as if he could play tackle, you could lock him up and get a center in free agency. Depending on how the draft shakes out, he could play either tackle or guard.
I think he gets a contract similar to Omameh. I would have no problem with that.
I wouldn't do that. Our biggest problems were coming from the interior. The interior dlineman are getting more athletic because they are the shortest distance to the QB.
If anything we have proven that if we have a decent interior protection we can get by.
I'm sure he gets reps there though in case of injury.
Yes, he is the answer at RG. Probably not Pro Bowl ceiling, but definitely a solid starter at that position with 4 years under his belt.
Brian Winters, who is less impressive physically (much shorter arms and slower) is currently getting 6 mil per. This had been guaranteed, not guaranteed starting in 2019.
Spencer Long signed for approximately 6 million guaranteed for 2018, but 2019 is structured as half roster bonus and half non-guaranteed salary so the Jets can move on, if they desire, with no cap hit.
And yes you resign him. We need to replace so many people, he is a serviceable player. He gives us the a bility to upgrade other roster positions. You cannot have an all pro at every position.
If you don't resign JB (or an equal/better replacement), the position joins C and RT as one of those bigger problems. Doesn't mean you go crazy with paying him, but you can't be too cavalier about letting him go.
I'd sign him. As we know from experience, the known beats the unknown at that price point. Resigning him allows you to focus on upgrading C and RT. You need to go 7-8 deep on the OL, I'm much more comfortable with Halapio being penciled in as primary interior depth and Wheeler swing tackle than those two as starters.
The Giants will need to consider all FA RG options Â
If Brown is good value, then sign him if possible. I mean relative good value. Relative to other FA options. Sure, maybe they could seen a Norwell-type RG but that of course would be at Norwell-type dollars. Is it worth it? Nobody will know until the FA market kicks in.
A guess at a reasonable strategy - sign Brown and draft his potential replacement.
Center and RT are huge issues too.
They tried to sign Sullivan (Rams) at C but he stayed with the Rams. So it seems they didn't like going into 2018 with Halapio and Jones. Jones is gone and Halapio broke his leg after not impressing. The Giants are going to get a C this offseason. I cannot imagine they will go into next year with Pulley/Halapio as the only options at C.
RT, Wheeler works so hard, I love that, but he's a backup/swing kind of guy.
His spot needs to be upgraded. Be glad to see him resigned. He’s serviceable and would be good depth but would like to see them spend their 2nd round pick again on a guard or guard/center.
Ideally they would upgrade him, but center and RT are both in much more urgent need of an upgrade. Not to mention pass rusher, safety, LB, QB etc.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back. A starting OL of: Solder-Hernandez-Paradis (other FA)-Brown-Rd 2 Pick could actually get the unit to average or better. And an OL where Brown is the "weak link" could be solid and significantly better than this years with Pulley or Wheeler the weak link.
Although I think a RT is more of a need than Brown.
He's part of the solution. Why mess up something that is working?
If they can pickup a center in the draft and a RT via draft or FA we are in great shape.
It would have to be more than they paid Omameh. I am just hoping DG gets it done before the end of the season.
As for a FA RT, I like Cam Fleming still. He filled in nicely for Tyron Smith in Dallas for a few weeks and did a nice job last year as a back up RT in NE. He signed a one year deal with Dallas this offseason for around $2,000,000. He should be an affordable RT candidate.
I agree, and if we can upgrade the center and RT next to him he will be better.
It can't be understated how poor play from those 2 positions can drag down the one good lineman between the 2.
It won't cost much, and RT is a bigger need.
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He's made a big difference.
I agree, and if we can upgrade the center and RT next to him he will be better.
It can't be understated how poor play from those 2 positions can drag down the one good lineman between the 2.
People also need to keep in mind that his first week from being picked up off waivers was his first game action since last year. He started the year suspended and never regained his starting position. He is an extremely large man and while he was in shape, there is a difference between being in game shape. On top of that, he had flew to NY and picked up the playbook, but couldn't stay at the facility due to our bye-week and the CBA preventing team contact with players (outside of those getting medical treatment). He then had to fly back to LA and then fly back to NY on the Sunday to report to the facility on Monday starting that same week.
I already pretty much stated what JonC said (without desperation). Brown is better than what was there, but he still misses too many blocks. However, I think C and RT are bigger needs, but I would not pass up on improving RG also. I would not mind re-signing him at a reasonable salary, because competent backups are needed.
Ideally they would upgrade him, but center and RT are both in much more urgent need of an upgrade. Not to mention pass rusher, safety, LB, QB etc.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back. A starting OL of: Solder-Hernandez-Paradis (other FA)-Brown-Rd 2 Pick could actually get the unit to average or better. And an OL where Brown is the "weak link" could be solid and significantly better than this years with Pulley or Wheeler the weak link.
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
I think you are foolish. Olineman are a hot commodity on the market right now. If you have one that will be serviceable, you try to keep him. The draft with Olineman can be a crap shoot. Hernandez is great, but I feel like we got lucky with that pick, seeing how boom or bust Olineman are these days.
I think with better talent on both sides of him, Brown can be better then he currently is. How bad Pulley and Wheeler are cannot be understated.
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In comment 14214273 giants#1 said:
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
I think you are foolish. Olineman are a hot commodity on the market right now. If you have one that will be serviceable, you try to keep him. The draft with Olineman can be a crap shoot. Hernandez is great, but I feel like we got lucky with that pick, seeing how boom or bust Olineman are these days.
I think with better talent on both sides of him, Brown can be better then he currently is. How bad Pulley and Wheeler are cannot be understated.
Did even you read my post? I said to keep Brown and try and upgrade RT with a FA and RG with a draft pick. And, at worst, they have Halapio to upgrade from Pully (and he is an upgrade from Pulley). Geesh.
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But let's not kid ourselves into thinking he's the long term answer at RG.
He's part of the solution. Why mess up something that is working?
If they can pickup a center in the draft and a RT via draft or FA we are in great shape.
+1 not to mention that you need "continuity" on the O-line, these guys need to know how to play as a unit.
+1 Good point, he makes everyone look better!
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
He played well for the Rams last year, was suspended and lost his job to Austin Blythe who is playing like an all pro. Brown came in DURING the season and played well from day 1. No he’s not perfect, but he is young and a proven starter in this league. When some people say a lineman has “his ups and downs” they realize this happens to every lineman to ever play football? You get beat sometimes.
He came in and the line instantly improved. That wasn’t a coincidence. Don’t break the bank but lock up our RG spot!
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In comment 14214273 giants#1 said:
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
Halapio coming back could push the need for a C down on the list.
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In comment 14214273 giants#1 said:
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I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back.
This. You need to get the RT in FA. It’s too risky to hope a rookie will fill that spot from day one. Then draft the RG and have Brown there as a backstop.
But that leaves Pulley (or Halapio) at center. I think they're better off sticking with Brown at RG and upgrading both center and RT (one via draft, one via FA).
In other words, assuming they can only upgrade 2 spots this offseason, I'm looking at C and RT before RG.
Sure. That would be another good way to do it. I get the feeling they like Halapio and think he might be ok as their center but that's more of a guess than anything solid. And it depends on who they think might be available in the draft (and as a FA).
He got a shot to start, and he wasn't very good. Solid depth player though that can play 2 positions.
We are more than likely going to move on from him after this season is my guess.
He got a shot to start, and he wasn't very good. Solid depth player though that can play 2 positions.
We are more than likely going to move on from him after this season is my guess.
This was his 1st season at center, so who knows how they feel. He was improving before the injury and he is big.
I think he gets a contract similar to Omameh. I would have no problem with that.
I think he gets a contract similar to Omameh. I would have no problem with that.
I wouldn't do that. Our biggest problems were coming from the interior. The interior dlineman are getting more athletic because they are the shortest distance to the QB.
If anything we have proven that if we have a decent interior protection we can get by.
I'm sure he gets reps there though in case of injury.
It won't cost much, and RT is a bigger need.
I think finding a quality C is more vital than RT.
Brian Winters, who is less impressive physically (much shorter arms and slower) is currently getting 6 mil per. This had been guaranteed, not guaranteed starting in 2019.
Spencer Long signed for approximately 6 million guaranteed for 2018, but 2019 is structured as half roster bonus and half non-guaranteed salary so the Jets can move on, if they desire, with no cap hit.
there is a huge demand for OL and not a big supply
whoever signs Brown is going to pay a lot of $$$
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shows how desperate we've become.
It won't cost much, and RT is a bigger need.
I think finding a quality C is more vital than RT.
Can't see that. Halapio might not have been great or maybe even good but I think he was better than Wheeler.
If you don't resign JB (or an equal/better replacement), the position joins C and RT as one of those bigger problems. Doesn't mean you go crazy with paying him, but you can't be too cavalier about letting him go.
A guess at a reasonable strategy - sign Brown and draft his potential replacement.
Center and RT are huge issues too.
They tried to sign Sullivan (Rams) at C but he stayed with the Rams. So it seems they didn't like going into 2018 with Halapio and Jones. Jones is gone and Halapio broke his leg after not impressing. The Giants are going to get a C this offseason. I cannot imagine they will go into next year with Pulley/Halapio as the only options at C.
RT, Wheeler works so hard, I love that, but he's a backup/swing kind of guy.
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His spot needs to be upgraded. Be glad to see him resigned. He’s serviceable and would be good depth but would like to see them spend their 2nd round pick again on a guard or guard/center.
Ideally they would upgrade him, but center and RT are both in much more urgent need of an upgrade. Not to mention pass rusher, safety, LB, QB etc.
I'd look to upgrade OC or RT via FA and the other in the draft while bringing Brown back. A starting OL of: Solder-Hernandez-Paradis (other FA)-Brown-Rd 2 Pick could actually get the unit to average or better. And an OL where Brown is the "weak link" could be solid and significantly better than this years with Pulley or Wheeler the weak link.
+1
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shows how desperate we've become.
It won't cost much, and RT is a bigger need.
I think finding a quality C is more vital than RT.
It depends on how you're looking at it ... positionally, and in terms of supply and demand, RT is more vital and harder to find.