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Baldy on Will Hernandez

gidiefor : Mod : 12/11/2018 11:53 am
Quote:
.@giants @willhernandez76 looking like the “monster” he was for 48 straight starts @UTEPFB

Film Study - ( New Window )
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RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
sb from NYT Forum : 12/11/2018 1:25 pm : link
In comment 14214554 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
& let's pray he doesn't regress like Richburg.


Respectfully, Richburg was never this good. Always standing around looking for someone to block, flapping his arms like he's Morris Day doin' the bird

RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
eclipz928 : 12/11/2018 1:28 pm : link
In comment 14214571 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 14214554 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& let's pray he doesn't regress like Richburg.



There is no comparison between these two players. DG knows how to identify good/capable OL in the draft. And Reese doesn't.
Not sure why DG is getting so much credit for the Will Hernandez draft pick - it was no-brainer to take him in the 2nd round. On draft day I didn't hear anyone else even suggest that the Giants would take another player in that spot.
Could be luck  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 12/11/2018 1:35 pm : link
But notice the first 2 picks are sky high intangibles/leadership guys. Yogi would have need a better scout than what we had,90% of this game is half mental.
Giant fingers crossed  
idiotsavant : 12/11/2018 1:42 pm : link
Because the right guard looks to be holding down the fort fairly well doing some good stuff, and the right tackle progressing each week.

Which may mean a bad assed 2nd round center is in the works. Another beast like Hernandez.

Focus down on that shit.
I'm not a DG guy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/11/2018 1:45 pm : link
but any GM gets at least some credit for taking the player in front of your face. It was the right mix of timing and opportunity. They could have passed on hernandez or got nervous about some part of his game.

That said, they're also quite lucky he fell to them.
Something like this:  
idiotsavant : 12/11/2018 1:46 pm : link
1. LB
2. Center
3. FS
4. LB...Corner...
5. DT....Tight End....
6. S
Etc and etc with the extra picks.

Trade down, if possible, as always.
RE: I'm not a DG guy  
Now Mike in MD : 12/11/2018 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14214789 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
but any GM gets at least some credit for taking the player in front of your face. It was the right mix of timing and opportunity. They could have passed on hernandez or got nervous about some part of his game.

That said, they're also quite lucky he fell to them.


I don't agree that DG picked the guy right in front of his face. My recollection is that there were other OGs available and there was some criticism that DG picked the wrong guy initially
Definitely re sign jamon brown  
idiotsavant : 12/11/2018 1:58 pm : link
And draft the best (in our terms and fit) center available.

Left to right sequentially aquired.



RE: RE: I'm not a DG guy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/11/2018 1:59 pm : link
In comment 14214796 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
In comment 14214789 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but any GM gets at least some credit for taking the player in front of your face. It was the right mix of timing and opportunity. They could have passed on hernandez or got nervous about some part of his game.

That said, they're also quite lucky he fell to them.



I don't agree that DG picked the guy right in front of his face. My recollection is that there were other OGs available and there was some criticism that DG picked the wrong guy initially


Not sure who else it would've been. Hernandez was talked about as a late 1st rounder. Connor Williams went before our pick, IIRC.
RE: RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
RobCarpenter : 12/11/2018 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14214772 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
In comment 14214571 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 14214554 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& let's pray he doesn't regress like Richburg.



There is no comparison between these two players. DG knows how to identify good/capable OL in the draft. And Reese doesn't.

Not sure why DG is getting so much credit for the Will Hernandez draft pick - it was no-brainer to take him in the 2nd round. On draft day I didn't hear anyone else even suggest that the Giants would take another player in that spot.


Because he is the one who made the pick.
RE: RE: RE: I'm not a DG guy  
giants#1 : 12/11/2018 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14214814 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14214796 Now Mike in MD said:


Quote:


In comment 14214789 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but any GM gets at least some credit for taking the player in front of your face. It was the right mix of timing and opportunity. They could have passed on hernandez or got nervous about some part of his game.

That said, they're also quite lucky he fell to them.



I don't agree that DG picked the guy right in front of his face. My recollection is that there were other OGs available and there was some criticism that DG picked the wrong guy initially



Not sure who else it would've been. Hernandez was talked about as a late 1st rounder. Connor Williams went before our pick, IIRC.


Williams went 50th overall to Dallas (Hernandez 34th).

Austin Corbett was taken just ahead of us by the Browns.

Braden Smith went 37 to Indy (I believe Sy liked him more, but felt WH fit the mold DG was looking for better)

James Daniels 39th

Brian O'Neill 62nd to the Vikes

So Hernandez was the 2nd of 6th OL to go in the 2nd round.
I wonder if some  
mrvax : 12/11/2018 2:09 pm : link
of Hernandez success is due to some coaching from Solder?
RE: RE: RE: I'm not a DG guy  
Now Mike in MD : 12/11/2018 2:13 pm : link
In comment 14214814 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14214796 Now Mike in MD said:


Quote:


In comment 14214789 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


but any GM gets at least some credit for taking the player in front of your face. It was the right mix of timing and opportunity. They could have passed on hernandez or got nervous about some part of his game.

That said, they're also quite lucky he fell to them.



I don't agree that DG picked the guy right in front of his face. My recollection is that there were other OGs available and there was some criticism that DG picked the wrong guy initially



Not sure who else it would've been. Hernandez was talked about as a late 1st rounder. Connor Williams went before our pick, IIRC.


Well for one there was Braden Smith. And Sy had WH as the 10th rated OG/OC
^ TTHammer  
ColHowPepper : 12/11/2018 2:15 pm : link
I too sort of thought that was an odd comment coming from you on WH. For one thing, Sy' wanted the G from Auburn (I think it was) whom he had ranked higher. For sure we needed OL, but others were in the mix, iirc.
RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
ColHowPepper : 12/11/2018 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14214571 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 14214554 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote: & let's pray he doesn't regress like Richburg. /////////////

There is no comparison between these two players. DG knows how to identify good/capable OL in the draft. And Reese doesn't.
Agree 100% Rob (sorry to be doing this to you (: )

No comp whatsoever: WH is physical, nasty and plays a power game. Richburg was none of the foregoing, more a finesse player, and he was pushed around, a lot. Different positions, totally different games.
To have  
PaulN : 12/11/2018 2:27 pm : link
Added Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, Carter, and McIntosh, who is also playing better now, and I am confident in him now that we see how effective Gettleman is at drafting Offensive Linemen and front 7 players on the defensive line and linebacker position, this draft is amongst the best I have ever seen the Giants have.
I know Sy isnt a big Hernandez guy  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/11/2018 2:33 pm : link
But he undersells his athleticism. That was his point of criticism.

I really dont recall any names other than William's especially because of his versatility to play tackle as well, but I'm willing to be wrong there. I clearly dont remember draft night well. I remember Hernandez being the #2 guard in the draft.
RE: I know Sy isnt a big Hernandez guy  
giants#1 : 12/11/2018 2:38 pm : link
In comment 14214866 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
But he undersells his athleticism. That was his point of criticism.

I really dont recall any names other than William's especially because of his versatility to play tackle as well, but I'm willing to be wrong there. I clearly dont remember draft night well. I remember Hernandez being the #2 guard in the draft.


See my post above. Braden Smith was certainly in the conversation at 34.
RE: RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
RobCarpenter : 12/11/2018 2:43 pm : link
In comment 14214848 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 14214571 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 14214554 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote: & let's pray he doesn't regress like Richburg. /////////////

There is no comparison between these two players. DG knows how to identify good/capable OL in the draft. And Reese doesn't.

Agree 100% Rob (sorry to be doing this to you (: )

No comp whatsoever: WH is physical, nasty and plays a power game. Richburg was none of the foregoing, more a finesse player, and he was pushed around, a lot. Different positions, totally different games.


No need to apologize! You stated their differences very well.

I always thought that the fact that Hernandez played hard for a college football team that was 0-10 meant a lot.

I also tend to think DG pays more attention to game film than to the 'measureables' when evaluating players. The Reese comparisons are very relevant b/c the difference in approaches is notable. It's only one draft but he did quite well.
RE: To have  
mrvax : 12/11/2018 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14214858 PaulN said:
Quote:
Added Barkley, Hernandez, Hill, Carter, and McIntosh, who is also playing better now, and I am confident in him now that we see how effective Gettleman is at drafting Offensive Linemen and front 7 players on the defensive line and linebacker position, this draft is amongst the best I have ever seen the Giants have.


I have to agree and it couldn't have happened at a better time. Imagine if 3 years in we have 15 solid starters?
Maybe Beal works out too.
I don't know if Reese was lucky  
ColHowPepper : 12/11/2018 3:13 pm : link
in the 2007 draft or whether it was by design. Ross comes in, let go by two different teams, and it went from mediocre to very bad. I don't know if it's lack of film study or preoccupation with Combine numbers, or what. But when JR touted Adrien Robinson as the JPP of tight ends, I said to myself, ok, let's see what he looks like.

When he finally took the field in some Ex games, and then finally in-season action (2013, 2014?), he was stunningly un-athletic, looked overweight and slow, not a quick twitch in his body.

One could say Richburg was the highest rated C coming out of college, but Travis Swanson (I think he starts for Dolphins) went 33 picks later to Detroit, Jarvis Landry went 20 picks later to Miami while we came away with Richburg and the immortal Jay Bromley.
It's not as if Richburg couldn't play  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/11/2018 3:26 pm : link
It's one of the weirdest stories of player development that I've seen in a while that a player could look that good early, and progressively get worse. I also don't think he was a "finesse" player. That word tends to be used as a euphemism for soft, and he wasn't. He certainly played with a mean streak and I believe he was ejected from a couple of games for unnecessary roughness.
RE: It's not as if Richburg couldn't play  
giants#1 : 12/11/2018 3:29 pm : link
In comment 14214958 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
It's one of the weirdest stories of player development that I've seen in a while that a player could look that good early, and progressively get worse. I also don't think he was a "finesse" player. That word tends to be used as a euphemism for soft, and he wasn't. He certainly played with a mean streak and I believe he was ejected from a couple of games for unnecessary roughness.


Took some shots at Norman.

He's viewed as "soft" due to all the injuries which at least partly explain the regression in his play.
I was critical  
mittenedman : 12/11/2018 3:33 pm : link
of the Snee comparisons early but not now. Tough as nails power player & finisher with surprising athleticism and great instincts. Look at his get-off - he's off the ball a fraction before any of the O or DL which allows him to dominate. With that kind of size, power and attitude if he moves before you do you're getting your ass kicked.

Those combo blocks are high level. He's making it look easy.
RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
Mike in Long Beach : 12/11/2018 3:34 pm : link
In comment 14214571 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 14214554 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& let's pray he doesn't regress like Richburg.



There is no comparison between these two players. DG knows how to identify good/capable OL in the draft. And Reese doesn't.


This is a really silly statement.
RE: RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
RobCarpenter : 12/11/2018 3:40 pm : link
In comment 14214981 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
In comment 14214571 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 14214554 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& let's pray he doesn't regress like Richburg.



There is no comparison between these two players. DG knows how to identify good/capable OL in the draft. And Reese doesn't.

This is a really silly statement.


What's silly about it? Reese's drafts sucked when it came to the OL, and DG did a decent job of drafting OL with the Panthers, and now with the Giants (granted, it's only one player).
Richburg  
ColHowPepper : 12/11/2018 4:37 pm : link
It was not my meaning to translate finesse as the equivalent of soft, technical may have been a better choice of words. That said, I never saw Richburg as a power, a force, in the center of the line moving DTs out of running lanes. He struggled mightily with that.
RE: Giant fingers crossed  
Gatorade Dunk : 12/11/2018 5:12 pm : link
In comment 14214786 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
Because the right guard looks to be holding down the fort fairly well doing some good stuff, and the right tackle progressing each week.

Which may mean a bad assed 2nd round center is in the works. Another beast like Hernandez.

Focus down on that shit.

That's a terrible way to draft. You don't go into it determined to take a certain position in a certain round, particularly in any round beyond the first.
RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
santacruzom : 12/11/2018 5:15 pm : link
In comment 14214571 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 14214554 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& let's pray he doesn't regress like Richburg.



There is no comparison between these two players. DG knows how to identify good/capable OL in the draft. And Reese doesn't.


Eh... that's kinda bullshit. Richburg was a pretty highly regarded player as well and actually performed promisingly his rookie year.

Trouble was, like so many promising young Giants players of the past several years, he performed worse instead of better in seasons following.

If there's one trend our new FO eliminates, I hope it's that one.
RE: Richburg  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/11/2018 5:25 pm : link
In comment 14215074 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
It was not my meaning to translate finesse as the equivalent of soft, technical may have been a better choice of words. That said, I never saw Richburg as a power, a force, in the center of the line moving DTs out of running lanes. He struggled mightily with that.


He was definitely a bit undersized, probably didn't have a lot of play strength.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
Mike in Long Beach : 12/11/2018 5:27 pm : link
In comment 14214984 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 14214981 Mike in Long Beach said:


Quote:


In comment 14214571 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 14214554 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& let's pray he doesn't regress like Richburg.



There is no comparison between these two players. DG knows how to identify good/capable OL in the draft. And Reese doesn't.

This is a really silly statement.



What's silly about it? Reese's drafts sucked when it came to the OL, and DG did a decent job of drafting OL with the Panthers, and now with the Giants (granted, it's only one player).


I won't bother digging into the archives, but everyone and their mother was gushing over Weston Richburg when he was playing at the level of a top 3 center in the NFL. Now in hindsight comments like yours about how there's "no comparing the two players" are very easy to say, but at the time he was looking like a guy who'd be a staple on our line for the next decade.

Point being there was literally no sign of Richburg's fall from grace, just as there's no indication Hernandez is going anywhere but up either.

If anything, there's extra reason to compare the two players and perhaps maybe not count our chickens after 6-8 good weeks? I'm confident in the kid too, but it's probably best (both as a fan and a member of the organization) to actually learn from how Richburg fell apart and prevent it from happening again.
RE: RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
sb from NYT Forum : 12/11/2018 5:55 pm : link
In comment 14215116 santacruzom said:
Quote:
Richburg was a pretty highly regarded player as well and actually performed promisingly his rookie year.

Trouble was, like so many promising young Giants players of the past several years, he performed worse instead of better in seasons following.

If there's one trend our new FO eliminates, I hope it's that one.


Didn't he play OG his rookie year? Because some walking corpse was playing C?
Baldy is one of the best things  
St. Jimmy : 12/11/2018 5:56 pm : link
on the internet. Anything breakdown is always great to watch.

The line is-a really exciting late season development. Three of the 5 pieces are there. They can function as currently constituted.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/11/2018 6:03 pm : link
In comment 14215154 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 14215116 santacruzom said:


Quote:


Richburg was a pretty highly regarded player as well and actually performed promisingly his rookie year.

Trouble was, like so many promising young Giants players of the past several years, he performed worse instead of better in seasons following.

If there's one trend our new FO eliminates, I hope it's that one.



Didn't he play OG his rookie year? Because some walking corpse was playing C?


Yeah, he started off at guard
he started at guard  
santacruzom : 12/11/2018 6:16 pm : link
but it wasn't long into 2015 when articles about how he might become the league's best center were surfacing.

Little did they know the pit that many young Giants fall into.
my God - that Baldy piece was actually enjoyable  
Del Shofner : 12/11/2018 6:21 pm : link
to watch. Been a while since I could say that about the Giants OL.
RE: RE: Sometimes it is right  
eli4life : 12/11/2018 6:30 pm : link
In comment 14214755 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14214573 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


in front of your eyes but plenty of scouts and GMs get caught up in the athleticism or the "upside" or whatever...Hernandez seems to be just a really good football player who you can count on. I'm glad Gettleman knows how to recognize that



OK but explain Omameh then, blinders?


Sure it was a bad signing he recognized it and he was released Reese would of doubled down on him.
It's amazing  
HoustonGiant : 12/11/2018 6:37 pm : link
what an OL can do for a team.
RE: Hernandez  
Vanzetti : 12/11/2018 6:37 pm : link
In comment 14214574 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
getting better and better as the season moves along. Which is what you would hope for a young guy who is figuring it out on the field. He's a keeper.


That's the real key: guys who continue to progress. And Hernandez has done that. Some ugly moments early on but last few games he has been laying guys out. And he and Solder are working much better as a team. I think we can say the left side is set for the next three years.
If I recall correctly, when he was drafted, Hernandez was described  
baadbill : 12/11/2018 7:00 pm : link
as "nasty with a mean streak" ... not dirty, but a lunch pail type of player who plays with an attitude.

The polar opposite of a Flowers. The type of guy who isn't going to allow himself to fail (and certainly never because of lack of effort).
Flowers’s Rookie Season  
Samiam : 12/11/2018 9:23 pm : link
I don’t know if people have short memories or just ignore facts . Flowers, as a rookie, was talked up here big time as one of the toughest guys on the team and one of the strongest. He never missed a game, possibly never missed a play, with a high ankle sprain. People wee talking about the tough attitude he brought to the team. He looked like he was on the right trajectory until something happened. As mentioned, Richburg’s first year was playing out of position as a guard. His 2nd season, he played very well as a center. Again, I remember reading here that he was the best or one of the best centers in the league and then something happened.

Now, everybody “knows” that these guys sucked from day 1 and they knew it then.
RE: If I recall correctly, when he was drafted, Hernandez was described  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/11/2018 9:58 pm : link
In comment 14215213 baadbill said:
Quote:
The type of guy who isn't going to allow himself to fail


This is a bit unfair. The NFL is littered with players who aren't good enough to play at this level. [i[especially at OL[/i]

Players fail all the time. This is an elite level and players are difficult to find. It doesn't mean they weren't trying. They're just not good enough. As fans, it's easily to believe that if you just put your best effort in, you can succeed, but this is the very top of the food chain. You can be the biggest or the fastest and still wash out of the sport. It's very common.
RE: Barkley a grand slam,  
short lease : 12/11/2018 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14214605 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Hernandez a home run, B.J. Hill a double.


Considering the rounds they were taken in - they are all home runs.
RE: RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
widmerseyebrow : 12/11/2018 10:50 pm : link
In comment 14214772 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
In comment 14214571 RobCarpenter said:


Quote:


In comment 14214554 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


& let's pray he doesn't regress like Richburg.



There is no comparison between these two players. DG knows how to identify good/capable OL in the draft. And Reese doesn't.

Not sure why DG is getting so much credit for the Will Hernandez draft pick - it was no-brainer to take him in the 2nd round. On draft day I didn't hear anyone else even suggest that the Giants would take another player in that spot.


Sy, and a number on BBI, were excited that Braden Smith was still available.
Hernandez like Barkley  
mattyblue : 12/12/2018 6:28 am : link
seemed like the easy pick for DG to make, but that’s no knock on him. I imagine it’s very easy to overthink things especially in RD 2 when there are some guys available you thought would be gone. GMs get the credit for good draft picks and the blame for bad ones.

As others have noted a lot of the problems with the Giants past drafts have been after the rookie year. Apple, Richburg, Pugh, Kenard, and plenty others were “great” picks according to many here, they also played outstandingly their rookie seasons. The issue arose after the first season, when they all regressed, gave up, disappeared, whatever you want to say. Was that coaching? Conditioning? Or were they all one year wonders for a lack of a better term? Flowers always sucked.

For the most part I don’t watch a lot of college football, played it, but never even watch my old school. Last year my job had me involved in doing some statistics type stuff for the NFL and it kind of got me into watching some games. Mostly the guys that were mentioned as possibilities for the #2 pick.

However, in all the years I have been reading BBI there is always a large contingent of posters that love certain picks. Every year a bunch of people call the draft an A+ or a lot of great moves. Especially early in Reese’s tenure. A lot of guys thought Reese was a great GM very quickly. DG still hasn’t faced the toughest tests yet. It’s anybodies guess whether or not he will be a great GM long term. He is kind of a charismatic guy who is entertaining to listen to which is big difference from JR who could put you to sleep. My point is the jury is still out and will be for awhile on him. It’s ok to be optimistic and acceptable to be pessimistic as well. I just think you gotta give it a lot more time to really label him as anything either positively or negatively.
Hernandez was great on those runs  
TD : 12/12/2018 6:48 am : link
But there was a lot of good blocking across the line and from the TEs. We may be beating up on scrub teams for the most part but there’s no denying we’re improving - significantly so in the case of the OL/blocking. Good to see.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Looks like we hit on him.  
Milton : 12/12/2018 6:57 am : link
In comment 14215404 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
Sy, and a number on BBI, were excited that Braden Smith was still available.
Braden Smith is having an excellent season last I checked. He would've been an equally good selection.
RE: Hernandez was great on those runs  
RobCarpenter : 12/12/2018 7:27 am : link
In comment 14215462 TD said:
Quote:
But there was a lot of good blocking across the line and from the TEs. We may be beating up on scrub teams for the most part but there’s no denying we’re improving - significantly so in the case of the OL/blocking. Good to see.


Washington has Payne and Allen on the DL, those are not scrubs.

Agree that theTE and WR blocking was good on those runs. It was nice to see Engram handle his man well.
Baldy  
Dan Duggan : 12/15/2018 9:23 am : link
Know there's a lot of Baldy love on this forum, so I figured some here would be interested in reading my feature on him. I spent six hours watching film with him on Tuesday to see how his popular breakdowns come together. It was a lot of fun. Here's the story

If you're on the fence about subscribing to The Athletic, this link will give you a seven-day free trial and a 30 percent discount for a one-year subscription ($3.49/month). Just in time to follow the Giants' playoff run!

Here's the story - ( New Window )
RE: Baldy  
Sean : 12/15/2018 9:32 am : link
In comment 14219247 Dan Duggan said:
Quote:
Know there's a lot of Baldy love on this forum, so I figured some here would be interested in reading my feature on him. I spent six hours watching film with him on Tuesday to see how his popular breakdowns come together. It was a lot of fun. Here's the story

If you're on the fence about subscribing to The Athletic, this link will give you a seven-day free trial and a 30 percent discount for a one-year subscription ($3.49/month). Just in time to follow the Giants' playoff run! Here's the story - ( New Window )


Thanks, Dan. Enjoy your writing. I subscribed to The Athletic 2 weeks ago and I’m thrilled with the content.
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