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NFT: NBA: Knicks vs Cavs 7pm

LawrenceTaylor56 : 12/12/2018 12:53 pm
Projected Starters

Mudiay-THJ-Hezonja-Vonleh-Kanter
vs
Sexton-Burks-Hood-Osman-Nance

I don't see how the Knicks could lose this one tonight. I don't think there is one person on the Cavs roster who can bully Kanter down low on either end of the court.

Couple Notes

Courtney Lee:
Sent down to the G League yesterday. 16 points. 1-9 from the 3. 7 rebounds. 3 assists. Not a great stat line against G-leaguers for possible trade bait on an immediate return.

On Frank Ntilikina:
Quote:
.@TheSteinLine says in his recent newsletter that his sense is that the Knicks are NOT actively looking to find a new home for Ntilikina. He notes the Knicks could field calls from teams interested in the Frenchman, but there is a difference between listening and shopping

Allonzo Trier:
Out the entire road trip with a strained groin. Expect to see him back December 17th against the Suns. Knicks will not have to make a move until he comes back which is when his 2-way contract expires.

Kevin Knox:
Quote:

@StevePopper
Fizdale said he is debating a lineup change. Sounds like Knox could be back in for Hezonja.

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Nets win at Philly.  
bceagle05 : 12/12/2018 9:35 pm : link
.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I'd rather take a good shot than force one up  
Anakim : 12/12/2018 9:37 pm : link
In comment 14216610 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14216608 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14216605 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 14216601 Anakim said:


Quote:


If Mudiay makes that contested shot, Cavs have the ball with a lot of time left and can set up a play during a timeout. I'd rather have the final shot where I can plan a good look and not give them an opportunity to get the ball back.



not 1 single team in the entire nba would play it out like that..

and thr shot was fine, he drew the foul and the refs swallowed their wjistle



Bullshit. I'd rather have the game in my hand than the other team's.


And yeah, it was a foul, but it was a crappy shot. It was contested and not a good look at all.



there was no one in front him he had a clean look..

and again you are wrong, you do not run the clock down dowj 1


For one final shot, of course you do. You have what? 16 seconds left? Kill some time. Get a better looking shot. He did get fouled by Dellavadipshit, but Nance was also right in front of him.
.  
Anakim : 12/12/2018 9:38 pm : link
Kurt Helin


@basketballtalk

Mudiay went way too fast there. Can argue he was fouled by Delly, but still an odd choice. Missed shot forced Knicks to foul, now down three.
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 12/12/2018 9:51 pm : link
In comment 14216615 Anakim said:
Quote:
Kurt Helin


@basketballtalk

Mudiay went way too fast there. Can argue he was fouled by Delly, but still an odd choice. Missed shot forced Knicks to foul, now down three.


so again you would rather miss and lose then miss and extend the game?
Mook I completely agree with you on Wade  
Oscar : 12/12/2018 10:13 pm : link
Obviously a great player but not someone who warrants some special farewell tour. To the extent that he is really remembered in NBA history it will be because of his friendship with LeBron and that Big Three Miami team.

I had the same reaction the other day when Wade and LeBron were facing each other for the last time - who cares really? I get they are friends and are both very good but LeBron is a top five all time player and Wade is considerably less than that. Hardly Bird and Magic facing off for the last time.
I really do not want a max guy this off season  
nygiants16 : 12/12/2018 10:30 pm : link
let Kanter expire, resign vonleh and maybe mudiay, try and trade hardaway and lee..

Fill the rest of the roster with more reclamation projects..

mudiay/frank
Barrett/dotson
Knox
KP
Vonleh/Robinson

Let the young guys grow
They shouldnt sign someone to a max for the sake of it  
Oscar : 12/12/2018 10:46 pm : link
I dont want Kemba or Kyrie for example, but if they can land Durant or Kawhi then just do it and figure the rest out. You cant say no to players like that.

I dont think theyll have a real shot at either, but if they do they cant pass it up.
I don't necessarily want Kemba - I go back and forth on the idea -  
bceagle05 : 12/12/2018 11:10 pm : link
but I think the Knicks would sign him if he's receptive.
No interest in Kemba  
Mike in NJ : 12/12/2018 11:12 pm : link
He's going to be eligible for the super max, and paying a small guard that will be on the wrong side of 30 for most of the contract is a terrible decision.

I would give the max to KD or Kawhi for sure. I could probably be talked into Kyrie because he is younger than Kemba, but he also comes with more injury risk.
I still think Knicks will have a shot at Kyrie  
nygiants16 : 12/12/2018 11:17 pm : link
No shot at Durant and Kawhi...

First things first...  
bceagle05 : 12/12/2018 11:22 pm : link
We're three games "up" on the Nets for fifth worst record in the league - Nets and Wizards have roughly the same record, and from there it's all teams hovering around .500 or above. At the very least, we'll be drafting a few slots higher than usual. Our January schedule is brutal.
RE: First things first...  
nygiants16 : 12/12/2018 11:25 pm : link
In comment 14216671 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
We're three games "up" on the Nets for fifth worst record in the league - Nets and Wizards have roughly the same record, and from there it's all teams hovering around .500 or above. At the very least, we'll be drafting a few slots higher than usual. Our January schedule is brutal.


all depends when KP comes back..
.  
bceagle05 : 12/13/2018 12:37 am : link
Hahn and Wally do a facebook live  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2018 7:01 am : link
on their way home, and they both agreed offense should of ran through knox rather than tim
RE: .  
The_Boss : 12/13/2018 8:36 am : link
In comment 14216694 bceagle05 said:
Quote:


Was probably the first time I fist pumped during a Knick game in maybe 5 years.
Hardaway really needs to go  
GMEN46 : 12/13/2018 8:40 am : link
And its not because I think he is a terrible player I actually think he can be a key 3rd or 4th piece ina contender. He is just delaying this whole knicks development. I dont like Kanter either but they just do not have another tough guys down low and Robinson cannot play 30 plus minutes physically. I would like to see starting line up the rest of the way of:

PG - Frank
SG - Dotson
SF - Knox
PF Vonleh
C - Robinson

Rotation players off bench
Mudiay
Burke
Trier
Kanter

Lee and hardaway have to be traded away.

Thats it I dont need to see anyone else. When Zinger comes back Robinson goes to bench and Kanter gets bought out unless another team has other expirings to send back
I am really excited to see KP  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2018 8:43 am : link
with this group, that young group with kp that finished the nets game is going to be fun to watch..

Their best 5 offensively/defensively would probably be..Frank, Dot, Knox, Vonleh, KP..

Knox/Kp screen and roll, the spacing on the court..damn
Kemba has turned into a top 10  
Metnut : 12/13/2018 9:15 am : link
player this year. Certainly good enough to be the second best player on a contender.

Adding Kemba and a top 5 pick would set the Knicks up to be really good for a while. Even if they were a little short of a title team right away, they'd be good enough to be a really desirable situation to attract other talent. If the top 5 pick or Knox turned into an all-star, they'd be right up there with Philly or Boston.
Sorry disagree  
dep026 : 12/13/2018 9:17 am : link
Adding Kemba would be the worst thing a team like the Knicks can do. Hes gonna be 30 looking for a huge deal. Plus, for how "good" he is.... he still has them near the bottom of the the East and has never really raised them to anything but a bottom playoff team in the East at best.
And again  
dep026 : 12/13/2018 9:18 am : link
shooting 43% from the floor and 35% from downtown are hardly anything to write home about....

The best player on an average team sometimes isnt everything.
Knox looking again like a real asset like he did in  
Heisenberg : 12/13/2018 9:25 am : link
Summer league. Two blocks too and he's showing some good rebounding ability too. Love it.
do we really need  
Enzo : 12/13/2018 9:30 am : link
43 minutes from Hardaway last night? Dotson deserves more mins. And I still hate watching Mudiay. He's only interested in his getting his own shot off...and he's simply not good enough to play that way. Frank is a work in progress, but the ball just seems to move around more when he's out there.
Agree with Dep  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 12/13/2018 9:31 am : link
no Kemba. No Wall. I don't want any all-star players around 30 lookin to get a big deal. Do we want another Melo like situation on our hands?

Durant is a different story.
2 year deal for trier  
nygiants16 : 12/13/2018 9:53 am : link
ron baker going to be released
RE: Sorry disagree  
TyreeHelmet : 12/13/2018 10:03 am : link
In comment 14216857 dep026 said:
Quote:
Adding Kemba would be the worst thing a team like the Knicks can do. Hes gonna be 30 looking for a huge deal. Plus, for how "good" he is.... he still has them near the bottom of the the East and has never really raised them to anything but a bottom playoff team in the East at best.


Who's the 2nd best player on the Hornets? Kemba is a great player. I would be happy to have him on the Knicks.
IF you want any shot at  
elisha2014 : 12/13/2018 10:04 am : link
Zion or RJ Barrett you should be happy they lost the game last night.
RE: RE: Sorry disagree  
dep026 : 12/13/2018 10:09 am : link
In comment 14216972 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14216857 dep026 said:


Quote:


Adding Kemba would be the worst thing a team like the Knicks can do. Hes gonna be 30 looking for a huge deal. Plus, for how "good" he is.... he still has them near the bottom of the the East and has never really raised them to anything but a bottom playoff team in the East at best.



Who's the 2nd best player on the Hornets? Kemba is a great player. I would be happy to have him on the Knicks.


Why does it matter? He has now become a volume shooter. He doesnt distribute the ball well enough for someone who always has the ball. He doesnt shoot a high percentage. His 3 point shooting has gone done from the last few years.

Right now, his best attritubute is he gets to the line and makes free throws. People really overrate this guy. Plus he will be 30 next year looking for major bucks. Hes a number 4 on a championship team, IMO.
Kemba  
TyreeHelmet : 12/13/2018 10:35 am : link
It matters because that team is complete garbage and he wins with them and that matters. His shooting % and assists would go up with a better team. His 2nd best player right now is a rookie. Dragging that team to 14-13 is an accomplishment.

Cap space is nice to have. But so is having an all nba point guard you got without giving up any talent.
RE: Kemba  
dep026 : 12/13/2018 10:47 am : link
In comment 14217074 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
It matters because that team is complete garbage and he wins with them and that matters. His shooting % and assists would go up with a better team. His 2nd best player right now is a rookie. Dragging that team to 14-13 is an accomplishment.

Cap space is nice to have. But so is having an all nba point guard you got without giving up any talent.


Theres a lot of speculation in your opinion. With better talent, his scoring goes way down as well. Walker is barely a top 10 PG in the NBA if at all. He shouldnt even be in discussions for an All-NBA team.
None of the current Knicks point guards are legit NBA starters.  
bceagle05 : 12/13/2018 10:59 am : link
Kemba would be a massive upgrade at the position. I'm on the fence about him, but he's 28 years old - let's not pretend he's some dinosaur. He's also missed fewer than three games in each of the past three seasons, and would be a near lock to average 22-25ppg for the duration of the contract, if not more. He'd be a good closer, and his ability to get to the rim and the free throw line is something the team sorely lacks. They can surround him with shooting and let him attack. I guess I just talked myself into it.
The draft will play a role in this, too.  
bceagle05 : 12/13/2018 11:00 am : link
If the Knicks are drafting 4-8, Morant and Garland could be in play for them - they bring a lot of the things Kemba does at a fraction of the price.
RE: RE: Kemba  
TyreeHelmet : 12/13/2018 11:01 am : link
In comment 14217106 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14217074 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


It matters because that team is complete garbage and he wins with them and that matters. His shooting % and assists would go up with a better team. His 2nd best player right now is a rookie. Dragging that team to 14-13 is an accomplishment.

Cap space is nice to have. But so is having an all nba point guard you got without giving up any talent.



Theres a lot of speculation in your opinion. With better talent, his scoring goes way down as well. Walker is barely a top 10 PG in the NBA if at all. He shouldnt even be in discussions for an All-NBA team.


You don't think Kemba is a top 10 point guard?
RE: RE: RE: Kemba  
dep026 : 12/13/2018 11:07 am : link
In comment 14217141 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:


You don't think Kemba is a top 10 point guard?


Westbrook
Curry
Harden/Paul
Lillard
Simmons
Irving
Lowry
Lebron (lets be honest, hes the PG.)
Holiday (hes he PG as well)

So theres 9 definites. If you want to put Wall, Conley, Kemba, Fox, or whoever in as the 10th - go for it. But i dont see him as a top PG in the NBA.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Kemba  
TyreeHelmet : 12/13/2018 11:21 am : link
In comment 14217152 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14217141 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:




You don't think Kemba is a top 10 point guard?



Westbrook
Curry
Harden/Paul
Lillard
Simmons
Irving
Lowry
Lebron (lets be honest, hes the PG.)
Holiday (hes he PG as well)

So theres 9 definites. If you want to put Wall, Conley, Kemba, Fox, or whoever in as the 10th - go for it. But i dont see him as a top PG in the NBA.


Agree that Lebron is a PG. But outside of Lowry and Holiday, you just listed 8 of the top 15 players in the league. I also think hes better than Lowry/Holiday and has been better than Irving the last few seasons. Also currently ( not value or projected value), he's probably a better player than Simmons.

I understand the concerns to giving that mega contract. But whats the alternative? This guy is only 28, tough as nails, gets better every year, and only missed 5 games since 2015. And you can't discount the fact his teams win with very little talent around him. That counts.

I'll take a top 20 nba player and top 10 PG that you only have to sacrifice cap space to acquire. Who else is your point guard next year? Mudiay??
What is your ceiling  
elisha2014 : 12/13/2018 11:24 am : link
if you max Kemba? 6th seed in the East? You're locked into mediocrity at best with him as your best/highest paid player. Hard pass.
RE: What is your ceiling  
TyreeHelmet : 12/13/2018 11:30 am : link
In comment 14217191 elisha2014 said:
Quote:
if you max Kemba? 6th seed in the East? You're locked into mediocrity at best with him as your best/highest paid player. Hard pass.


You think adding Kemba and KP to this group will get you a ceiling of a 6 seed in the East? The Hornets are currently 6th and their 2nd and 3rd leading scorers are Monk and Tony Parker...

He's not perfect but Kemba/ KP with these young guys and 2019 pick has alot of potential...
Kemba  
dep026 : 12/13/2018 11:34 am : link
is nowhere near Ben Simmons. And he isnt better than Lowry/Holiday and certainly not better than Kyrie. And he is nowhere near a top 20 player either.

He will be 29 in a month. He wants max money. How far is he taking you in 5 years? He isnt getting better. He is just getting more volume.

Be very wary.
RE: RE: What is your ceiling  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 12/13/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 14217204 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14217191 elisha2014 said:


Quote:


if you max Kemba? 6th seed in the East? You're locked into mediocrity at best with him as your best/highest paid player. Hard pass.



You think adding Kemba and KP to this group will get you a ceiling of a 6 seed in the East? The Hornets are currently 6th and their 2nd and 3rd leading scorers are Monk and Tony Parker...

He's not perfect but Kemba/ KP with these young guys and 2019 pick has alot of potential...


Signing second-tier guys to max contracts is something the Knicks should avoid doing.
RE: RE: What is your ceiling  
dep026 : 12/13/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 14217204 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14217191 elisha2014 said:


Quote:


if you max Kemba? 6th seed in the East? You're locked into mediocrity at best with him as your best/highest paid player. Hard pass.



You think adding Kemba and KP to this group will get you a ceiling of a 6 seed in the East? The Hornets are currently 6th and their 2nd and 3rd leading scorers are Monk and Tony Parker...

He's not perfect but Kemba/ KP with these young guys and 2019 pick has alot of potential...


With who they have and adding kemba and KP....

Sixers
Celtics
Raptors
Bucks

Those 4 would be better. So the 5th seed?
The 2019  
elisha2014 : 12/13/2018 11:40 am : link
1st round pick will either be an immediate star player (Zion/RJ) or another young guy who needs years to develop.

This is THE YEAR we need to lose lose lose- there is a crystal clear path to contention in the next 5 years and the #1 step is getting one of those two players in this draft.

For the life of me I don't understand why some fans were angered by the loss last night - or any other night - this team NEEDS to draft a star player. Giving a near 30 star? player like Kemba a max is just history repeating itself for this franchise.
RE: Kemba  
Greg from LI : 12/13/2018 11:43 am : link
In comment 14217212 dep026 said:
Quote:
is nowhere near Ben Simmons. And he isnt better than Lowry/Holiday


Cmon, that's silly. I don't want to shovel money at Kemba, but he's absolutely a better player than Lowry and Holiday.
and the only  
elisha2014 : 12/13/2018 11:44 am : link
reason the Pelicans paid Holiday a near max was to appease Davis. It's worth going over the cap/overpaying players to keep a superstar happy.
RE: RE: Kemba  
dep026 : 12/13/2018 11:45 am : link
In comment 14217227 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14217212 dep026 said:


Quote:


is nowhere near Ben Simmons. And he isnt better than Lowry/Holiday



Cmon, that's silly. I don't want to shovel money at Kemba, but he's absolutely a better player than Lowry and Holiday.


Kemba shoots 3s better than Holiday. But Holiday is 20/9 this year with better defense.
RE: do we really need  
Greg from LI : 12/13/2018 11:46 am : link
In comment 14216882 Enzo said:
Quote:
43 minutes from Hardaway last night?


What we really need is 0 minutes from Hardaway.
Kemba  
TyreeHelmet : 12/13/2018 12:23 pm : link
How does signing Kemba hurt the 2019 draft pick or hinder the development of the young players? If your saying you want to tank again next season, thats a different argument and I don't think feasible.

Yes currently the celtics/ bucks/ raptors/ sixers may be better next year. But alot can change. What happens when the Celtics young guys don't improve or Irving gets hurt again? Or when Leonard leaves in FA and Lowry is now 33? Or Embiid gets hurt again or Simmons doesn't get any better. Things happen. And hopefully Knox/ KP/ Frank/ 2019 pick and other young guys continue to make a jump.

I just simply disagree that Holiday and Lowry are better players. And if you don't think Kemba has improved then you aren't watching.

Whos a bigger injury risk- Kemba or Kyrie? I'm not saying the guy is perfect and I don't think he's even leaving, but I find it funny how Knicks fans are now being picky about an all star PG.
It's not being picky.  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 12/13/2018 1:35 pm : link
It's about paying a second tier 29 year old max money that doesn't quite fit the timeline with these Knicks. It would be Melo all over again.
It's Amateur Hour at the garden  
ghost718 : 12/13/2018 8:54 pm : link
You better take Kemba and like it
RE: I still think Knicks will have a shot at Kyrie  
djm : 12/13/2018 9:01 pm : link
In comment 14216669 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
No shot at Durant and Kawhi...


I need to believe that we have a slight but hopeful chance at one of these two. Why is Leonard going to the stupid clippers all but preordained? The clippers?
RE: What is your ceiling  
djm : 12/13/2018 9:26 pm : link
In comment 14217191 elisha2014 said:
Quote:
if you max Kemba? 6th seed in the East? You're locked into mediocrity at best with him as your best/highest paid player. Hard pass.


To be fair he wouldnt be the best player here nor would he have to be.
RE: It's not being picky.  
djm : 12/13/2018 9:32 pm : link
In comment 14217489 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
It's about paying a second tier 29 year old max money that doesn't quite fit the timeline with these Knicks. It would be Melo all over again.


I just think this is unfair. When the Knicks traded for melo they had one or two good players with barely any chance to improve. They had stat, who was already showing age and injury issues and what else? Ok they were able to use the last of their cap room on Tyson chandler but that was IT. That Knicks team had literally no other way of improving, the coffers were bare. This Knicks situation has so much more room for growth and potential even if they squander their cap room this summer on a mere mortal nba player. Im not saying to throw money away but you cant compare today to the melo deal and time.
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