But you wonder if the ravens even want to trade Flacco anytime soon? Jackson is just a kid that plays a running style. He’s quite possibly going to get hurt. He could also regress. Don’t know if I’d be quick to trade Flacco but the money he makes plays a part in all of this. I don’t care about stupid qb controversies as I think the negative impact they have on teams is overstated.
One good year, a magic carpet ride playoff, and Flacco takes the money and fleeces the Ravens.
Big time physical skills. But really a lazy, listless, undependable QB.
I make no bones about it - Eli has bothered me since Archie, Peyton, and Condon manipulated the draft for him. But I would keep him another decade rather than have a clown like Flacco. Warts and all, at least Eli tries every time out...
It was reported that the ravens felt like Flacco needed someone to push him, and felt getting him to compete for the starting job would get him to play better.
One good year, a magic carpet ride playoff, and Flacco takes the money and fleeces the Ravens.
Big time physical skills. But really a lazy, listless, undependable QB.
I make no bones about it - Eli has bothered me since Archie, Peyton, and Condon manipulated the draft for him. But I would keep him another decade rather than have a clown like Flacco. Warts and all, at least Eli tries every time out...
you want as a backup if you have SB/playoff aspirations. Lets say he is Mahomes backup next year and Mahomes gets dinged for a few games. Flacco is serviceable to fill the void until Mahomes comes back.
You dont want him as a 16 game starter. And you dont want him competing with a young guy cause he will probably look better and you will be opt to play him. Hes a veteran backup behind a very good QB at this point.
One good year, a magic carpet ride playoff, and Flacco takes the money and fleeces the Ravens.
Big time physical skills. But really a lazy, listless, undependable QB.
I make no bones about it - Eli has bothered me since Archie, Peyton, and Condon manipulated the draft for him. But I would keep him another decade rather than have a clown like Flacco. Warts and all, at least Eli tries every time out...
Flacco has had a revolving door at offensive coordinator. Almost no investment by the team in skill players since SB 47.
Always double digit INTs, most TDs in a season 25 and 27, best rating 93+, best completion % - 65%, best QBR - 62.5...
2010 - 25 TDs 10 INTs 3,622 yards and a 12-4 Record.
2011 - 20 TDs 12 Ints 3610 yards, 12-4 Record Went to AFC Title Game
2012 - 22 Tds - 10 Ints - 3817 10-6 record won Super Bowl
2014 - 27 Tds - 12 Ints - 3986 yards - Won play off game in Pittsburgh and watched defense squander 14 pt. leads over New England twice.
Joe had more then one good season. Tore his ACL in '15 and has had issues since.
will still be able to produce. Jax needs him badly but Denver could be an option as well.
Let me tell you something, oline has never been a problem in Baltimore.
Maybe receivers have been - sure - but Flacco has always had a solid oline and a quality running game. Oh, and the very good defenses...
100% false. OLine has been an issue in Baltimore since 2013. Gino Gradkowski at center. AQ Shipley at Guard? With the exception of Marshal Yanda the O Line has been awful most years. BW knows NOTHING
will still be able to produce. Jax needs him badly but Denver could be an option as well.
Let me tell you something, oline has never been a problem in Baltimore.
Maybe receivers have been - sure - but Flacco has always had a solid oline and a quality running game. Oh, and the very good defenses...
100% false. OLine has been an issue in Baltimore since 2013. Gino Gradkowski at center. AQ Shipley at Guard? With the exception of Marshal Yanda the O Line has been awful most years. BW knows NOTHING
When he first started I thought he would develop into a star. He put up good numbers as a rookie and 2nd year player especially with a team lacking any real receivers. He was also pretty mobile. He never took that step up though. He plateaued very early. 34 is no spring chicken even with the two hand touch ball going on with today's qbs. He will be a mentor or stop gap player moving forward.
2010 - 25 TDs 10 INTs 3,622 yards and a 12-4 Record.
2011 - 20 TDs 12 Ints 3610 yards, 12-4 Record Went to AFC Title Game
2012 - 22 Tds - 10 Ints - 3817 10-6 record won Super Bowl
2014 - 27 Tds - 12 Ints - 3986 yards - Won play off game in Pittsburgh and watched defense squander 14 pt. leads over New England twice.
Joe had more then one good season. Tore his ACL in '15 and has had issues since.
Led team to three AFC Title games and won a SB.
Let me make sure I get this straight, you think those individual stats are impressive? And I know NOTHING. Good one.
And interesting, further, how you conveniently leave at completion % and Rating and QBR. Believe me, I understand why...
Indeed, the Ravens were successful as a team. But that was two major reason beyond Flacco - Ray Rice/running game and that defense. And Flacco did have the one glorious playoff run in 2012, especially when they pulled the rabbit out of the hat winning in Denver on the Mile High Miracle to Jones.
But based on cost/benefit per his salary, Flacco is damn near a bust.
It was reported that the ravens felt like Flacco needed someone to push him, and felt getting him to compete for the starting job would get him to play better.
That's the definition of a not-franchise QB
This x1000. If your franchise guy need to be “pushed” to perform. I would say you don’t have a franchise guy
Among the vet QBs that might find themselves on the trading block Â
Would put Eli in the same category as Flacco, yet everyone here loves Eli and hates Flacco.
Today and in the past I would take Eli over Flacco but it is funny how with Eli the Super Bowls loom so large even years later but a guy like Flacco wins a Super Bowl and it's eh, so what, barely worth mentioning.
RE: What’s funny is I would think most impartial nfl fans Â
Would put Eli in the same category as Flacco, yet everyone here loves Eli and hates Flacco.
You should not speak for everyone, you do not know all of us. I don't think everyone here hates Flacco, why would they? As for Eli, yes we love the guy, he works hard, gives 100% and is tough as nails. Do you really believe there is such a thing as an impartial fan?
He's 3-1 as a starter now and the one loss came to KC in OT.
He might wind up getting hurt since he's running a lot - but they're winning games with him right now and are playing pretty well.
A lot of people here thought he'd never take a snap @ QB and that he needed to be moved to WR (which I never understood... )
They're putting points on the board with Jackson and they're doing a good job of playing to his strengths. He has at least 70 rush yards in all 4 games he's started thus far.
He's 3-1 as a starter now and the one loss came to KC in OT.
He might wind up getting hurt since he's running a lot - but they're winning games with him right now and are playing pretty well.
A lot of people here thought he'd never take a snap @ QB and that he needed to be moved to WR (which I never understood... )
They're putting points on the board with Jackson and they're doing a good job of playing to his strengths. He has at least 70 rush yards in all 4 games he's started thus far.
Sorry, I hope he proves me wrong. I do not see it with him.
Reported that Ravens have been frustrated for years by Flaco s lack of effort during the off season.
Cowherd mentioned it today.
This is right. That’s what I mean by his laziness and listlessness.
But it’s been reported many times in the Baltimore press that Flacco’s preparation has been questioned. His focus, etc. Harbaugh fired Trestman because he basically couldn’t fire Flacco. So they brought in Marty Morni. And I know for a fact that the frustration has continued under Marty.
They are dying for LamJax to work out so they can jettison Flacco.
all over the Giants for the wins they've had lately.
Jackson's wins have been against the Bengals, Raiders and Falcons. His losses have been against the Steelers and Chiefs.
It is way too early to say either how effective he's been or if the Ravens are doing better than if they had Flacco. Afterall, Flacco beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh by 2 TD's.
There were some very poor and disrespectful takes Â
If you look at his game action in college and read his career accomplishments as a passer it is difficult to accept that people who watched him play would think he cant throw.
he is clearly a top-notch athlete. He has the arm to make deep throws. I haven't watched too many of his games, but watched every snap in detail when he played ATL. At least in that game, he left a lot to be desired as a thrower.
He seemed to do a good job of seeing open men, but not a very good job of hitting them downfield. His throwing motion isn't consistent. His launch point changes regularly, sometimes becoming a sidearm throw even when going >20 yds downfield. He doesn't always square and set his feet or shoulders which clearly affects his accuracy. Some guys have the ability to make highly accurate throws on the move, but I didn't see that in him.
He's young, he can be coached up and there is every reason to believe he can become a more consistent thrower. He also is @ greater risk of injury, imo, because of his running style.
All of that said, in no way is my opinion worth anything, not only because of the limited sample size of my viewing. Mostly because I'm just a fan of the sport, not any kind of analyst. I don't even consider myself very knowledgeable about the sport.
Where Jackson is most limited are his throws outside the hashes. I'm not sure they're even asking him to make many of those at all because it was something he struggled to do and wasn't asked to do a whole lot of @ LOU.
You'll get his best throws on slants, crossing routes, and deep posts. He can flick it downfield with ease, but once you ask him to push the ball outside on an out route or a deeper sideline route, he struggles. You could even see it when he threw @ the combine. He would sail those outside throws or struggle to really drive the ball. But throwing down the middle of the field is much less of an issue for him and his legs make him a threat every time he has the football in his hands.
He's got work to do as a passer - no doubt about it. But the early returns are showing what made him such an interesting and dynamic prospect.
I'm sure he will continue to be coached up regarding when he takes off and how he handles running with the ball. He was surprisingly durable in college for a running QB with his wiry frame - but he was. We'll see if he can continue to hold up in the NFL.
It's a chess match with QB's like Jackson - I think a lot of defenses struggle to defend them out of the box and need to figure out some tendencies. At the same time, Jackson will need to improve and become a bigger threat throwing the ball otherwise defenses will catch up quickly and find ways to mitigate the things he does excel at.
I'm interested in seeing how his career unfolds. I obviously made no secrets about really liking him as a prospect but he was risky for obvious reasons and there's certainly high bust odds here.
I'm pulling for him. I think he's fun to watch and would like to see him take that job and run with it. (Literally)
RE: There were some very poor and disrespectful takes Â
If you look at his game action in college and read his career accomplishments as a passer it is difficult to accept that people who watched him play would think he cant throw.
Terps and I pumped up Jax very aggressively. I thought he was well handled by Petrino and, with the right fit, was going to be a threat in the NFL. So he was worth the stretch in my view. I was sort of surprised Belichick passed on him with one of the two first rounders they had. Seemed to me McDaniel could optimize his skill set...
Ironically, I’m not sure Baltimore is the right place - yet. While I think he’s a dynamic runner and can buy time, I think they are over-exposing him too much with the planned carries. He’s a great athlete and fearless. But bigger, faster, stronger athletes in the NFL will ultimately punish you for choosing the run over the pass too much...
And they scored 24 points. Shows you how goddamn exceptional their specials and defense is playing. And they've faced fairly easy defenses too.
He's rushed for 70 yards or more in every game he's started and was over 100 in one of them. He's doing his damage in other ways. If you focus on Lamar Jackson's passing yardage, you'll never get the full picture.
rushing as much as he had, you're hell bent on a collision course to injuries.
Like bw and Terps, my ideal QB to pick in the draft was Jackson (until he announced his Mom would be his agent). But after watching him, he looks extremely awkward throwing the ball and he's already taken some serious hits when running.
I don't think he is going to be a sustainable solution. The fears on his accuracy and passing mechanics seem to be warranted thus far.
Part of the reason Baltimore's defense plays well is Jackson Â
The Ravens are third in the NFL in rushing in part because of Jackson's presence (and that applies even before he was made the starting QB).
Third in the NFL in rushing as a team, and Jackson is actually their leading rusher. The Ravens have outrushed us this season by 400 yards, and they didn't need to draft a back as good as Barkley to do it.
If we were courageous or creative enough we could have drafted both Barkley and Jackson. Had we done that I have no doubt we'd be leading the NFL in rushing and have a much better record than we actually do.
I don't think he is going to be a sustainable solution. The fears on his accuracy and passing mechanics seem to be warranted thus far.
He's made some nice throws using different arm angles when he's under duress. I caught a lot of the Atlanta game and he made some terrific throws on the run.
But you are right. Jax has a lot more work to do on his mechanics. Essentially he's aiming almost everything instead of just ripping through the ball. And that directly impacts accuracy in the wrong direction.
Ravens are basically running a college offense for him for right now. And it's basically working because they are eating up clock, Jax is a huge running threat, and their defense is playing downhill.
If the outs are the throws that he's missing more, could it be an issue of throwing across his body, or in other words not squaring his shoulders up to the target properly? I don't really know much but I agree that it appears those throws are the ones he seems to miss most.
One good year, a magic carpet ride playoff, and Flacco takes the money and fleeces the Ravens.
Big time physical skills. But really a lazy, listless, undependable QB.
I make no bones about it - Eli has bothered me since Archie, Peyton, and Condon manipulated the draft for him. But I would keep him another decade rather than have a clown like Flacco. Warts and all, at least Eli tries every time out...
LOL
Ryan Clark has a routine gig on ESPN. Another reaosn why I dont watch it.
Let me tell you something, oline has never been a problem in Baltimore.
Maybe receivers have been - sure - but Flacco has always had a solid oline and a quality running game. Oh, and the very good defenses...
That's the definition of a not-franchise QB
One good year, a magic carpet ride playoff, and Flacco takes the money and fleeces the Ravens.
Big time physical skills. But really a lazy, listless, undependable QB.
I make no bones about it - Eli has bothered me since Archie, Peyton, and Condon manipulated the draft for him. But I would keep him another decade rather than have a clown like Flacco. Warts and all, at least Eli tries every time out...
He’s had more than one good year.
You dont want him as a 16 game starter. And you dont want him competing with a young guy cause he will probably look better and you will be opt to play him. Hes a veteran backup behind a very good QB at this point.
He’s had more than one good year.
Define good, please.
Always double digit INTs, most TDs in a season 25 and 27, best rating 93+, best completion % - 65%, best QBR - 62.5...
One good year, a magic carpet ride playoff, and Flacco takes the money and fleeces the Ravens.
Big time physical skills. But really a lazy, listless, undependable QB.
I make no bones about it - Eli has bothered me since Archie, Peyton, and Condon manipulated the draft for him. But I would keep him another decade rather than have a clown like Flacco. Warts and all, at least Eli tries every time out...
Quote:
He’s had more than one good year.
Define good, please.
Always double digit INTs, most TDs in a season 25 and 27, best rating 93+, best completion % - 65%, best QBR - 62.5...
2010 - 25 TDs 10 INTs 3,622 yards and a 12-4 Record.
2011 - 20 TDs 12 Ints 3610 yards, 12-4 Record Went to AFC Title Game
2012 - 22 Tds - 10 Ints - 3817 10-6 record won Super Bowl
2014 - 27 Tds - 12 Ints - 3986 yards - Won play off game in Pittsburgh and watched defense squander 14 pt. leads over New England twice.
Joe had more then one good season. Tore his ACL in '15 and has had issues since.
Led team to three AFC Title games and won a SB.
Quote:
will still be able to produce. Jax needs him badly but Denver could be an option as well.
Let me tell you something, oline has never been a problem in Baltimore.
Maybe receivers have been - sure - but Flacco has always had a solid oline and a quality running game. Oh, and the very good defenses...
Quote:
In comment 14216127 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
will still be able to produce. Jax needs him badly but Denver could be an option as well.
Let me tell you something, oline has never been a problem in Baltimore.
Maybe receivers have been - sure - but Flacco has always had a solid oline and a quality running game. Oh, and the very good defenses...
100% false. OLine has been an issue in Baltimore since 2013. Gino Gradkowski at center. AQ Shipley at Guard? With the exception of Marshal Yanda the O Line has been awful most years. BW knows NOTHING
Osemele was part of that OL until 2015.
But, the Ravens need him this year as it is only a matter of time until the Rookie is injured and can't play.
They'd save $10M cutting him but that dead cap # is high.
They'd save $10M cutting him but that dead cap # is high.
Love it, that's their backup qb. Outside of the NFC east, they are the team I hate the most.
2010 - 25 TDs 10 INTs 3,622 yards and a 12-4 Record.
2011 - 20 TDs 12 Ints 3610 yards, 12-4 Record Went to AFC Title Game
2012 - 22 Tds - 10 Ints - 3817 10-6 record won Super Bowl
2014 - 27 Tds - 12 Ints - 3986 yards - Won play off game in Pittsburgh and watched defense squander 14 pt. leads over New England twice.
Joe had more then one good season. Tore his ACL in '15 and has had issues since.
Led team to three AFC Title games and won a SB.
Let me make sure I get this straight, you think those individual stats are impressive? And I know NOTHING. Good one.
And interesting, further, how you conveniently leave at completion % and Rating and QBR. Believe me, I understand why...
Indeed, the Ravens were successful as a team. But that was two major reason beyond Flacco - Ray Rice/running game and that defense. And Flacco did have the one glorious playoff run in 2012, especially when they pulled the rabbit out of the hat winning in Denver on the Mile High Miracle to Jones.
But based on cost/benefit per his salary, Flacco is damn near a bust.
That's the definition of a not-franchise QB
This x1000. If your franchise guy need to be “pushed” to perform. I would say you don’t have a franchise guy
Younger guys with more head for the game, IMO, who can also stretch the field given time.
But OL acquisitions are more important right away.
Cowherd mentioned it today.
Today and in the past I would take Eli over Flacco but it is funny how with Eli the Super Bowls loom so large even years later but a guy like Flacco wins a Super Bowl and it's eh, so what, barely worth mentioning.
Cowherd mentioned it today.
Years ago Cowherd made out that some deep source he had with the Ravens confided that Flacco was too dumb to master full NFL concepts.
Sounds like he's pulling this out once more with a new wrinkle.
He's 3-1 as a starter now and the one loss came to KC in OT.
He might wind up getting hurt since he's running a lot - but they're winning games with him right now and are playing pretty well.
A lot of people here thought he'd never take a snap @ QB and that he needed to be moved to WR (which I never understood... )
They're putting points on the board with Jackson and they're doing a good job of playing to his strengths. He has at least 70 rush yards in all 4 games he's started thus far.
Quote:
Lamar Jackson...this will go well for Baltimore.
He's 3-1 as a starter now and the one loss came to KC in OT.
He might wind up getting hurt since he's running a lot - but they're winning games with him right now and are playing pretty well.
A lot of people here thought he'd never take a snap @ QB and that he needed to be moved to WR (which I never understood... )
They're putting points on the board with Jackson and they're doing a good job of playing to his strengths. He has at least 70 rush yards in all 4 games he's started thus far.
Sorry, I hope he proves me wrong. I do not see it with him.
Cowherd mentioned it today.
This is right. That’s what I mean by his laziness and listlessness.
But it’s been reported many times in the Baltimore press that Flacco’s preparation has been questioned. His focus, etc. Harbaugh fired Trestman because he basically couldn’t fire Flacco. So they brought in Marty Morni. And I know for a fact that the frustration has continued under Marty.
They are dying for LamJax to work out so they can jettison Flacco.
Jackson's wins have been against the Bengals, Raiders and Falcons. His losses have been against the Steelers and Chiefs.
It is way too early to say either how effective he's been or if the Ravens are doing better than if they had Flacco. Afterall, Flacco beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh by 2 TD's.
If you look at his game action in college and read his career accomplishments as a passer it is difficult to accept that people who watched him play would think he cant throw.
He seemed to do a good job of seeing open men, but not a very good job of hitting them downfield. His throwing motion isn't consistent. His launch point changes regularly, sometimes becoming a sidearm throw even when going >20 yds downfield. He doesn't always square and set his feet or shoulders which clearly affects his accuracy. Some guys have the ability to make highly accurate throws on the move, but I didn't see that in him.
He's young, he can be coached up and there is every reason to believe he can become a more consistent thrower. He also is @ greater risk of injury, imo, because of his running style.
All of that said, in no way is my opinion worth anything, not only because of the limited sample size of my viewing. Mostly because I'm just a fan of the sport, not any kind of analyst. I don't even consider myself very knowledgeable about the sport.
You'll get his best throws on slants, crossing routes, and deep posts. He can flick it downfield with ease, but once you ask him to push the ball outside on an out route or a deeper sideline route, he struggles. You could even see it when he threw @ the combine. He would sail those outside throws or struggle to really drive the ball. But throwing down the middle of the field is much less of an issue for him and his legs make him a threat every time he has the football in his hands.
He's got work to do as a passer - no doubt about it. But the early returns are showing what made him such an interesting and dynamic prospect.
I'm sure he will continue to be coached up regarding when he takes off and how he handles running with the ball. He was surprisingly durable in college for a running QB with his wiry frame - but he was. We'll see if he can continue to hold up in the NFL.
It's a chess match with QB's like Jackson - I think a lot of defenses struggle to defend them out of the box and need to figure out some tendencies. At the same time, Jackson will need to improve and become a bigger threat throwing the ball otherwise defenses will catch up quickly and find ways to mitigate the things he does excel at.
I'm interested in seeing how his career unfolds. I obviously made no secrets about really liking him as a prospect but he was risky for obvious reasons and there's certainly high bust odds here.
I'm pulling for him. I think he's fun to watch and would like to see him take that job and run with it. (Literally)
If you look at his game action in college and read his career accomplishments as a passer it is difficult to accept that people who watched him play would think he cant throw.
Terps and I pumped up Jax very aggressively. I thought he was well handled by Petrino and, with the right fit, was going to be a threat in the NFL. So he was worth the stretch in my view. I was sort of surprised Belichick passed on him with one of the two first rounders they had. Seemed to me McDaniel could optimize his skill set...
Ironically, I’m not sure Baltimore is the right place - yet. While I think he’s a dynamic runner and can buy time, I think they are over-exposing him too much with the planned carries. He’s a great athlete and fearless. But bigger, faster, stronger athletes in the NFL will ultimately punish you for choosing the run over the pass too much...
122 passing yards
And they scored 24 points. Shows you how goddamn exceptional their specials and defense is playing. And they've faced fairly easy defenses too.
122 passing yards
And they scored 24 points. Shows you how goddamn exceptional their specials and defense is playing. And they've faced fairly easy defenses too.
He's rushed for 70 yards or more in every game he's started and was over 100 in one of them. He's doing his damage in other ways. If you focus on Lamar Jackson's passing yardage, you'll never get the full picture.
Like bw and Terps, my ideal QB to pick in the draft was Jackson (until he announced his Mom would be his agent). But after watching him, he looks extremely awkward throwing the ball and he's already taken some serious hits when running.
I don't think he is going to be a sustainable solution. The fears on his accuracy and passing mechanics seem to be warranted thus far.
Third in the NFL in rushing as a team, and Jackson is actually their leading rusher. The Ravens have outrushed us this season by 400 yards, and they didn't need to draft a back as good as Barkley to do it.
If we were courageous or creative enough we could have drafted both Barkley and Jackson. Had we done that I have no doubt we'd be leading the NFL in rushing and have a much better record than we actually do.
I don't think he is going to be a sustainable solution. The fears on his accuracy and passing mechanics seem to be warranted thus far.
He's made some nice throws using different arm angles when he's under duress. I caught a lot of the Atlanta game and he made some terrific throws on the run.
But you are right. Jax has a lot more work to do on his mechanics. Essentially he's aiming almost everything instead of just ripping through the ball. And that directly impacts accuracy in the wrong direction.
Ravens are basically running a college offense for him for right now. And it's basically working because they are eating up clock, Jax is a huge running threat, and their defense is playing downhill.