NFT: Familia returns to the Mets, 3 years, 30 million

In comment 14216930 Metnut said:

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with trading Vargas and Peterson for Cervelli (is that value about right?). Use the added cash to sign Britton, Cahill and Pollock. We go into 2019 as NL East favorites even if Philly gets Machado and WSH keeps Harper.

You are WAY high in what the Mets have to spend. Like not even in the same ballpark. Britton and Pollock alone are going to make close to 30 million. This isn't a realistic plan at all (no offense).

I like Jeurys, great competitor. Definitely need a lefty now.

I would not be surprised to see Lugo back in the rotation, if not at the beginning of the season then sometime later.

Dan, Z, EricLi, other Mets fans, what's your take on the Rosario situation? Doesn't it seem like if Rosario was all it would take for Realmuto that he would already be gone?

Personally, I hate the idea of losing Rosario, even for the promotion of Andres Gimenez, who would still likely finish the 2019 season in the Minors. It also feels like selling low on Rosario, who seems to have had the light go on in the 2nd half. When Rosario connects, he has some pretty good power that I believe might still be developing.

https://www.mlb.com/video/rosarios-leadoff-home-run/c-2392045183

Rosario just turned 23 and although I get Gimenez has upside as well, Rosario could be a 5-tool player. At the very least, I'd like to see Gimenez ace AA ball and perform in AAA as well, and he's done neither yet.

Selling Rosario now and installing a stop-gap SS for a hope-so-in-the-future Gimenez doesn't seem consistent with a win-now team, a team that definitely has a championship window right now, with or without the addition of Realmuto. Give me the somewhat proven, young, controllable, and still blossoming Rosario at least for 2019.

What say you?

In comment 14216925 DanMetroMan said:

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is owed 10, Cervelli 11.5. This just doesn't make sense for Pittsburgh. Someone like Peterson or Vientos would have to go for sure.

a) spotrac says Vargas is 8m and the mets could kick in some of that to move him. I didn't say he'd offset all of Cervelli, obviously Pirates would want to save some money and Vargas is dead weight. Just offset some of it and clear a spot.

b) Nobody is giving up Peterson or Vientos for 1 year of Cervelli. 1 year of Goldschmidt only cost spare parts along the lines of Dom. I don't know what Cervelli would cost but if it's anything more than Dom then you just pivot to Martin - who also has 1 year and we know would be paid down by Toronto big time.

insists the price for Realmuto is Rosario and a second "very big piece" with the Marlins insisting on Conforto. So no thanks.

In comment 14216930 Metnut said:

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with trading Vargas and Peterson for Cervelli (is that value about right?). Use the added cash to sign Britton, Cahill and Pollock. We go into 2019 as NL East favorites even if Philly gets Machado and WSH keeps Harper.

No mention of the 2018 NL East champs who just added Josh Donaldson and will have a full season of Ronald Acuna Jr.

In comment 14216941 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14216925 DanMetroMan said: Quote: is owed 10, Cervelli 11.5. This just doesn't make sense for Pittsburgh. Someone like Peterson or Vientos would have to go for sure. a) spotrac says Vargas is 8m and the mets could kick in some of that to move him. I didn't say he'd offset all of Cervelli, obviously Pirates would want to save some money and Vargas is dead weight. Just offset some of it and clear a spot. b) Nobody is giving up Peterson or Vientos for 1 year of Cervelli. 1 year of Goldschmidt only cost spare parts along the lines of Dom. I don't know what Cervelli would cost but if it's anything more than Dom then you just pivot to Martin - who also has 1 year and we know would be paid down by Toronto big time.

Vargas is owed 10. 2 million dollar buyout. Spare parts on Goldschmidt? Absolutely not. They didn't get studs but they got a very solid quantity return. Carson Kelly is one of the best C prospects in baseball and will start right away.

Jeff Passan

"
Jeff Passan
✔
@JeffPassan
Source: Arizona Paul Goldschmidt has been traded to the St. Louis Cardinals. Luke Weaver, Carson Kelly, Andy Young and a draft pick are headed back.

Quite a haul for Arizona."

Grandal isn't my favorite option bc of the 2nd round pick, but I would love to see this entire pitching staff add a weapon like him framing the ball behind the plate. If it's worth as much as the analytics say it is it would really just continue amplifying the strength of this roster.

In comment 14216941 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14216925 DanMetroMan said: Quote: is owed 10, Cervelli 11.5. This just doesn't make sense for Pittsburgh. Someone like Peterson or Vientos would have to go for sure. a) spotrac says Vargas is 8m and the mets could kick in some of that to move him. I didn't say he'd offset all of Cervelli, obviously Pirates would want to save some money and Vargas is dead weight. Just offset some of it and clear a spot. b) Nobody is giving up Peterson or Vientos for 1 year of Cervelli. 1 year of Goldschmidt only cost spare parts along the lines of Dom. I don't know what Cervelli would cost but if it's anything more than Dom then you just pivot to Martin - who also has 1 year and we know would be paid down by Toronto big time.

Nobody is giving Peterson or Vientos for Cervelli. Correct. But you are suggesting the Pirates take back Vargas. That changes everything. They save 1.5 million. That's not worth it for Pittsburgh.

In comment 14216942 DanMetroMan said:

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insists the price for Realmuto is Rosario and a second "very big piece" with the Marlins insisting on Conforto. So no thanks.

The Marlins are going to mess this up. Soon teams will pivot towards Grandal and Ramos leaving them with less suitors and leverage. That is a ridiculous ask by Miami once again. It seems that they are traumatized by the terrible Yelich trade.

put it this way. McCutchen just got 3 years 53 million (including his buyout) that's 17.7 per. Show me how the Mets add Pollock, Britton and Cahill unless the payroll is suddenly going WAY WAY up.

In comment 14216934 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14216930 Metnut said: Quote: with trading Vargas and Peterson for Cervelli (is that value about right?). Use the added cash to sign Britton, Cahill and Pollock. We go into 2019 as NL East favorites even if Philly gets Machado and WSH keeps Harper. You are WAY high in what the Mets have to spend. Like not even in the same ballpark. Britton and Pollock alone are going to make close to 30 million. This isn't a realistic plan at all (no offense).

You're right that I'm almost certainly high on what the Mets will actually spend, but that's more of a wish list and not a prediction.

Above you mentioned that they still had room for (one of) a Britton or Pollock signing. So assume they sign Pollock. You'd think they be just about done there (maybe add a cheap OF or LOOGY too)?

If they add Britton and Cahill that would be another $25M annually? On a $160M payroll, that's about 15%. Hard to say that hoping for 15% more payroll is not in the same ballpark no?

Kelly debuted in the big leagues 2016, he's a year older than Dom, and both of them in very limited opportunity have been worth the same negative fwar's (-1.0). Obviously the scarcity of the catcher position, the fact that they tend to develop later, and the fact that Kelly was behind a better player make Kelly a way more interesting player that Dom. Goldschmidt is obviously 10 stratosphere's beyond Cervelli though.

think they add a C and one "premium" piece whether it's Pollock or another top RP. I'd be absolutely stunned if they do all 3 even if the C is Maldonado. They "have to" add an OF of some sort because they don't have enough to fill out the roster.

either. I wonder if they could find a way to ship him out for salary relief and get McNiel in there every day and free up a little more payroll.

In comment 14216960 Eric on Li said:

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Kelly debuted in the big leagues 2016, he's a year older than Dom, and both of them in very limited opportunity have been worth the same negative fwar's (-1.0). Obviously the scarcity of the catcher position, the fact that they tend to develop later, and the fact that Kelly was behind a better player make Kelly a way more interesting player that Dom. Goldschmidt is obviously 10 stratosphere's beyond Cervelli though.

Again.. what's in it for Pittsburgh? 1.5 million is nothing. Why wouldn't another team just have then kick in minimal cash? Maldonado is projected to get 6-8. Cervelli is better. There is just no way Pittsburgh is taking back Vargas without the Mets paying a "heavy" talent freight. Just nothing in it for Pittsburgh. 1.5 million is nothing.

In comment 14216951 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14216941 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 14216925 DanMetroMan said: Quote: is owed 10, Cervelli 11.5. This just doesn't make sense for Pittsburgh. Someone like Peterson or Vientos would have to go for sure. a) spotrac says Vargas is 8m and the mets could kick in some of that to move him. I didn't say he'd offset all of Cervelli, obviously Pirates would want to save some money and Vargas is dead weight. Just offset some of it and clear a spot. b) Nobody is giving up Peterson or Vientos for 1 year of Cervelli. 1 year of Goldschmidt only cost spare parts along the lines of Dom. I don't know what Cervelli would cost but if it's anything more than Dom then you just pivot to Martin - who also has 1 year and we know would be paid down by Toronto big time. Nobody is giving Peterson or Vientos for Cervelli. Correct. But you are suggesting the Pirates take back Vargas. That changes everything. They save 1.5 million. That's not worth it for Pittsburgh.

Your math is wrong - even if they took back all of Vargas' $8m they save $3.5m. If the Mets kick in half of Vargas' contract the Pirates save $7.5m of the $11m (about what they saved trading Nova). The Mets obviously would need to give them a piece as well, but I think it's going to be much closer to the type of player they returned for Nova.

one thinks of Cervelli's 2018. The guy easily gets 2 years 8-10 if he's a FA. The Pirates know this. Vargas does nothing for them other than again... 1.5 million in savings. They would just kick in "some" cash to move him if they were desperate, would still save them more than that.

is my math wrong? Vargas is owed 10, Cervelli 11.5. That's a savings of 1.5 million? What am I missing?

is owed 10 million Eric. Your math is the issue (not being snarky). You keep citing 8. He's owed 10.


2019 36 New York Mets $8,000,000 11.114
2020 37 New York Mets *$8,000,000 $8M Team Option, $2M Buyout.

again. 1.5 million saved. That's chump change. Nobody swaps Cervelli for Vargas for that.

Nova they saved 9.2 million... again I'm really confused on this one and usually I agree with most of what you say.

In comment 14216969 DanMetroMan said:

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Again.. what's in it for Pittsburgh? 1.5 million is nothing. Why wouldn't another team just have then kick in minimal cash? Maldonado is projected to get 6-8. Cervelli is better. There is just no way Pittsburgh is taking back Vargas without the Mets paying a "heavy" talent freight. Just nothing in it for Pittsburgh. 1.5 million is nothing.

See my last post - the $1.5m is incorrect. According to spotrac:

Cervelli - $11.5m
Vargas - $8m
= $3.5m

If I were the Mets I'd look to pay down around half the difference that so the Pirates net the same savings they did with the Nova deal - where they practically gave him away.

Cervelli for a net of $7-8m is obviously a better value than Maldonado, though he costs a prospect. But no way should he cost a top 5-10 prospect in anyone's system. The guy they got to save 8m on Nova isn't even in their top 30.

also isn't as valuable as Cervelli to begin with. Nova last 2 seasons 4.51 FIP. He was a flat salary dump.

In comment 14216990 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14216969 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Again.. what's in it for Pittsburgh? 1.5 million is nothing. Why wouldn't another team just have then kick in minimal cash? Maldonado is projected to get 6-8. Cervelli is better. There is just no way Pittsburgh is taking back Vargas without the Mets paying a "heavy" talent freight. Just nothing in it for Pittsburgh. 1.5 million is nothing. See my last post - the $1.5m is incorrect. According to spotrac: Cervelli - $11.5m Vargas - $8m = $3.5m If I were the Mets I'd look to pay down around half the difference that so the Pirates net the same savings they did with the Nova deal - where they practically gave him away. Cervelli for a net of $7-8m is obviously a better value than Maldonado, though he costs a prospect. But no way should he cost a top 5-10 prospect in anyone's system. The guy they got to save 8m on Nova isn't even in their top 30.

Eric.. are you trying to be funny here? VARGAS IS OWED A BUYOUT FOR 2020! I've said it more than once. I'm really confused.

18:$6M, 19:$8M, 20:$8M club option ($2M buyout)

In comment 14216990 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14216969 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Again.. what's in it for Pittsburgh? 1.5 million is nothing. Why wouldn't another team just have then kick in minimal cash? Maldonado is projected to get 6-8. Cervelli is better. There is just no way Pittsburgh is taking back Vargas without the Mets paying a "heavy" talent freight. Just nothing in it for Pittsburgh. 1.5 million is nothing. See my last post - the $1.5m is incorrect. According to spotrac: Cervelli - $11.5m Vargas - $8m = $3.5m If I were the Mets I'd look to pay down around half the difference that so the Pirates net the same savings they did with the Nova deal - where they practically gave him away. Cervelli for a net of $7-8m is obviously a better value than Maldonado, though he costs a prospect. But no way should he cost a top 5-10 prospect in anyone's system. The guy they got to save 8m on Nova isn't even in their top 30.

Your math is incorrect but I'm confused why you can't acknowledge this?

In comment 14216934 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14216930 Metnut said: Quote: with trading Vargas and Peterson for Cervelli (is that value about right?). Use the added cash to sign Britton, Cahill and Pollock. We go into 2019 as NL East favorites even if Philly gets Machado and WSH keeps Harper. You are WAY high in what the Mets have to spend. Like not even in the same ballpark. Britton and Pollock alone are going to make close to 30 million. This isn't a realistic plan at all (no offense).

So they have met with Adam Jones now, Spotrac has him for $1.5 million more than Pollock (annually?), but I would guess Jones is looking for a 3-year deal as opposed to Pollock wanting the 5-year deal.

I'd prefer Pollock, of course, and wouldn't mind not adding another expensive piece. A combination of in-house Zamora and perhaps a guy like Aaron Loup (I know, uninspiring), or Luis Avilán, sign a Ramos, Grandal, or even Maldonado and call it a day.

Feb. 19: USA Today�s Bob Nightengale tweets that Vargas will earn $6MM in 2018 and $8MM in 2019. The option year is valued at $8MM and comes with a $2MM buyout.

Feb. 16, 1:20pm: Heyman tweets that Vargas will earn an additional $250K for reaching 160, 170, 180, 190, 200 and 210 innings in each season of the deal.



So...

In comment 14216981 DanMetroMan said:

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is owed 10 million Eric. Your math is the issue (not being snarky). You keep citing 8. He's owed 10. 2019 36 New York Mets $8,000,000 11.114 2020 37 New York Mets *$8,000,000 $8M Team Option, $2M Buyout.

I'm not seeing the 2m buyout confirmed anywhere. Spotrac is linked below and here's the article to when he signed on MLB.com - no buyout listed anywhere. It could be and if so add in another 2m from the Mets.
Vargas Contract - ( New Window )

Bob Nightengale
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@BNightengale
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Jason Vargas will earn $6 million this year with #Mets, $8 million in 2019 with a $8 million option or $2 million buyout in 2020. He can also earn $250,000 each for 160 innings, 170 innings, 180, 190, 200 and 210.

So in theory he actually could be owed 11.5 million if Pittsburgh allowed him to get that far. But a guaranteed ....10 million.

In comment 14217006 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14216981 DanMetroMan said: Quote: is owed 10 million Eric. Your math is the issue (not being snarky). You keep citing 8. He's owed 10. 2019 36 New York Mets $8,000,000 11.114 2020 37 New York Mets *$8,000,000 $8M Team Option, $2M Buyout. I'm not seeing the 2m buyout confirmed anywhere. Spotrac is linked below and here's the article to when he signed on MLB.com - no buyout listed anywhere. It could be and if so add in another 2m from the Mets. Vargas Contract - ( New Window )

The buyout is mentioned EVERYWHERE. Cots, Nightengale, baseballreference.com He has a 2 million dollar buyout.

In comment 14217002 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14216990 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 14216969 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Again.. what's in it for Pittsburgh? 1.5 million is nothing. Why wouldn't another team just have then kick in minimal cash? Maldonado is projected to get 6-8. Cervelli is better. There is just no way Pittsburgh is taking back Vargas without the Mets paying a "heavy" talent freight. Just nothing in it for Pittsburgh. 1.5 million is nothing. See my last post - the $1.5m is incorrect. According to spotrac: Cervelli - $11.5m Vargas - $8m = $3.5m If I were the Mets I'd look to pay down around half the difference that so the Pirates net the same savings they did with the Nova deal - where they practically gave him away. Cervelli for a net of $7-8m is obviously a better value than Maldonado, though he costs a prospect. But no way should he cost a top 5-10 prospect in anyone's system. The guy they got to save 8m on Nova isn't even in their top 30. Your math is incorrect but I'm confused why you can't acknowledge this?

you originally said his salary was 10m next year which was incorrect when I checked spotrac. I didn't recall there being a buyout, it's also not listed on spotrac, and if there is one that's my bad, but it doesn't seem to be listed or confirmed anywhere.

future owed money (Vargas 8 in 2019, 2 in 2020)
Link - ( New Window )

you are now being dishonest. I NEVER said Vargas 2019 salary was 10 million.

"Vargas
DanMetroMan : 9:46 am : link : reply
is owed 10, Cervelli 11.5. This just doesn't make sense for Pittsburgh. Someone like Peterson or Vientos would have to go for sure."

He is OWED 10 million. That is factual

Avenue

"During the offseason, the Mets signed Vargas to a two-year, $16 million contract with an $8 million option and a $2 million buyout for a third year. Vargas had a 4.16 ERA in 179.2 innings for the Royals last year, but he faded significantly down the stretch and has been a major disappointment so far for the Mets."
Link - ( New Window )

you didn't say his salary was 10m - that's how I interpreted your first comment on the subject bc I didn't recall there being a buyout and it wasn't listed on the site I check. I remembered his salary being 8m and that's where I thought your math was wrong. Either way it's a silly argument over a minor detail of the contract and even my original post included that the mets would pay down some of vargas contract so pitt could save money on the deal. No point in arguing this any further bc I think we both mostly agree and i got caught up on bad math bc the site I used didn't list his option and I misread your initial post. �

$16m / 2 Years (2018 - 2019) + 1 Option Years (Edit)
signed by New York Mets on 2/16/2018 (Free Agent)
2018: $6M, 2019: $8M
2020 Unknown Option: $8M ($2M buyout)
Incentives: $250,000 each for 160 innings, 170, 180, 190, 200 and 210

In comment 14217018 DanMetroMan said:

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you are now being dishonest. I NEVER said Vargas 2019 salary was 10 million. "Vargas DanMetroMan : 9:46 am : link : reply is owed 10, Cervelli 11.5. This just doesn't make sense for Pittsburgh. Someone like Peterson or Vientos would have to go for sure." He is OWED 10 million. That is factual

you are correct - I typed that post without looking at what you actually said and realized I had just misinterpreted.

point is the Pirates would have to pay him 10 million. That's what they would be taking on. Which changes the talent cost significantly vs. someone like Nova where the savings was significant. For a team like Pittsburgh they aren't taking back significant salary to dump an asset without a team giving up actual talent.

moving on because this isn't important. Rule 5 today. They have 4 spot open. Really hope they pluck someone. Martin is probably the most talented name available but he likely won't be there when the Mets pick, nor is he a great fit with Cano/Rosario/McNeil... unless Rosario is a goner.

In comment 14217022 DanMetroMan said:

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$16m / 2 Years (2018 - 2019) + 1 Option Years (Edit) signed by New York Mets on 2/16/2018 (Free Agent) 2018: $6M, 2019: $8M 2020 Unknown Option: $8M ($2M buyout) Incentives: $250,000 each for 160 innings, 170, 180, 190, 200 and 210

You can keep posting all the links I didn't use to check Vargas' contract or you can cut me 1 ounce of slack that the link I did use didn't list it and it's not high treason to not remember an insignificant 2m option on a contract signed 10 months ago.

In comment 14217038 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14217022 DanMetroMan said: Quote: $16m / 2 Years (2018 - 2019) + 1 Option Years (Edit) signed by New York Mets on 2/16/2018 (Free Agent) 2018: $6M, 2019: $8M 2020 Unknown Option: $8M ($2M buyout) Incentives: $250,000 each for 160 innings, 170, 180, 190, 200 and 210 You can keep posting all the links I didn't use to check Vargas' contract or you can cut me 1 ounce of slack that the link I did use didn't list it and it's not high treason to not remember an insignificant 2m option on a contract signed 10 months ago.

Like I said, moving on. I was just confused why you refused to believe every other source. I'm not looking to fight over such a stupid topic (not calling you stupid).

In comment 14217026 DanMetroMan said:

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point is the Pirates would have to pay him 10 million. That's what they would be taking on. Which changes the talent cost significantly vs. someone like Nova where the savings was significant. For a team like Pittsburgh they aren't taking back significant salary to dump an asset without a team giving up actual talent.

I know that - which is why my original post said "to offset some money" not "all of his money". Obviously the Pirates aren't making a revenue neutral trade of a good player for a bad player. But I agree, let's move on.

with a 3.81 era after the all star break, keep him for another year and use Lugo in the pen. It's a great advantage to have a player who can be a respectable starter in your pen when the inevitable injury to someone in the rotation happens. If we trade Vargas and move Lugo into the rotation, we'll have to add another reliever who, after we eat part of Vargas's contract will cost as much or more.

source but the drummer for the band Coheed and Cambria is a massive, massive Mets fan and knows MLB players (presumably fans of his band) and he said one of Pollock's teammates essentially said the guy is unable to stay healthy and knowing the guy (Josh Eppard) is a Mets fan he'd hope his Mets didn't sign him. No idea if there is more to it (aka the players didn't like each other) but I guess it's something.

makes BBI great, right there.

That. And Larry.

say the Mets have discussed Nick Hundley. Yuck. He's 35 and was last a league average regular.. in 2014.

In comment 14217041 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14217038 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 14217022 DanMetroMan said: Quote: $16m / 2 Years (2018 - 2019) + 1 Option Years (Edit) signed by New York Mets on 2/16/2018 (Free Agent) 2018: $6M, 2019: $8M 2020 Unknown Option: $8M ($2M buyout) Incentives: $250,000 each for 160 innings, 170, 180, 190, 200 and 210 You can keep posting all the links I didn't use to check Vargas' contract or you can cut me 1 ounce of slack that the link I did use didn't list it and it's not high treason to not remember an insignificant 2m option on a contract signed 10 months ago. Like I said, moving on. I was just confused why you refused to believe every other source. I'm not looking to fight over such a stupid topic (not calling you stupid).

When you posted the other sources I realized the one I used was wrong. I don't multi-source every post I make and spotrac is usually the most detailed with contracts.

would use Cots. MLB GM's are on record as admitting they use it so I have to believe it's accurate.

In comment 14217063 DanMetroMan said:

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would use Cots. MLB GM's are on record as admitting they use it so I have to believe it's accurate.

their site layout sucks though. honestly if this is more than 1 minor glitch on spotrac it's gonna be a big hit for me bc their site is so easy to navigate and has every team/sport/historical.

would not be happy but I'm not sure a ton separates Nido and Maldonado. If they used the C money on Pollock it wouldn't be the worst allocation of funds. I still prefer Grandal over all other options. Grandal, Justin Wilson, maybe Jon Jay with Lagares. OF options are really poor so if it's not Pollock I don't know where they turn. Adam Jones is completely finished.