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NFT: Familia returns to the Mets, 3 years, 30 million

Defenderdawg : 12/13/2018 5:37 am
Anthony DiComo (@AnthonyDiComo)
12/13/18, 2:35 AM
BREAKING: It's a Jeurys Familia reunion in Flushing. Source confirms the Mets have signed the free-agent reliever, who spent the first six and a half years of his career with the team. Familia gives them a setup man in front of newly acquired closer Edwin Diaz

Anthony DiComo (@AnthonyDiComo)
12/13/18, 2:40 AM
It's a three-year deal for Jeurys Familia, per & #8294;& #8234;@jonmorosi& #8236;& #8297;. & #8294;& #8234;@JeffPassan& #8236;& #8297; broke the signing. With Familia, Diaz, Seth Lugo and Robert Gsellman, the Mets now feel they have four dynamic arms at the back of their bullpen. They're still seeking lefty help to balance out that group.

Anthony DiComo (@AnthonyDiComo)
12/13/18, 3:09 AM
Jeurys Familia's deal with the Mets is for three years and $30 million. Again, that's pending a physical.
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RE: MLB released its new top 50 list  
BigBlueShock : 12/15/2018 8:46 am : link
In comment 14219187 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
0 Mets are on it including the recently traded Kelenic or Dunn. Link - ( New Window )

Thats the 2019 rankings for next years amateur draft. Its not surprising theres no Mets on it...
RE: RE: MLB released its new top 50 list  
Jay on the Island : 12/15/2018 9:24 am : link
In comment 14219228 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14219187 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


0 Mets are on it including the recently traded Kelenic or Dunn. Link - ( New Window )


Thats the 2019 rankings for next years amateur draft. Its not surprising theres no Mets on it...

They are releasing their new top 100 prospects list in January.
RE: Assuming we land one of the big catchers...  
Jay on the Island : 12/15/2018 9:34 am : link
In comment 14219186 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Put me in the camp that would be ok with Castellanos. He may be bad defensively in the corner OF but would it really be any different than Conforto-Nimmo-Bruce last year? With defensive positioning these days I feel like you barely feel it in the OF. Nimmo is passable in CF and I actually am in favor of him ending up there because it means we brought in more offense somewhere else. A no hit defensive CF with Nimmo in a corner doesnt interest me as much.

Catcher should be number one priority and I think it is but after that a RH hitter that can play some OF and even some 3B would suit me fine as the gravy on this train. That can be M. Gonzalez, Puig, Castellanos, etc.

Castellanos is literally the worst defensive RF in baseball. -19 DRS and a 12.9 UZR. The Tigers are also asking for a lot in return for him. He belongs in the AL.
Sorry  
Jay on the Island : 12/15/2018 9:35 am : link
-12.9 UZR
Cano is/was a great player but his age and contract are risky  
Eric on Li : 12/15/2018 10:30 am : link
I really like his addition to the team for the next couple season but he could cease being a good player at any time and the wilpons still have to write checks to him that amount to $60m during the years he's age 38-40. Fingers crossed he's a reverse jeff kent. or adrian beltre. or ortiz. and the NL gets a DH in a couple years. I'm actually optimistic since his contact oriented / low K profile matches each of the others, but can't lose sight of that being an outlier possibility.

Dealing Kelenic sucked, but you have to give to get and he helped improve the team. If they finish the offseason strong and compete for the division it will still sting but worth it, just like Fulmer. If things go sideways 2 years from now, you can deal Diaz at the deadline and possibly get a prospect just as good.

Re: payroll, I'd be careful about perceiving the future to be a blank slate. In 2021 yes Cespedes is off the books but between only Cano ($20), JDG ($25m?), and Thor + Conforto each in their final arbitration years pre-FA you are looking at easily $80m between those 4 guys. If Diaz and Nimmo are still part of the core they are each in their 2nd arb year and probably take it over $100m. That's part of why I suspect we only have 1 more 3-4 year contract left in us this offseason, most likely for either Grandal or Pollock.
Take this with a grain of salt  
Jay on the Island : 12/15/2018 10:34 am : link
but there are talks between the Dodgers and Braves involving Puig.
RE: Take this with a grain of salt  
Eric on Li : 12/15/2018 10:40 am : link
In comment 14219300 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
but there are talks between the Dodgers and Braves involving Puig.


That would be an interesting move for Atl and I think be a very good calculated risk. Price of acquisition should be less than Goldschmidt and you guys certainly have the depth to do something similar.
RE: RE: Take this with a grain of salt  
Jay on the Island : 12/15/2018 10:43 am : link
In comment 14219305 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14219300 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


but there are talks between the Dodgers and Braves involving Puig.



That would be an interesting move for Atl and I think be a very good calculated risk. Price of acquisition should be less than Goldschmidt and you guys certainly have the depth to do something similar.

It would be a better addition, assuming the price is fair, than giving a huge deal to Pollock or Brantley. Puig is under control for two more seasons. The Braves have a great relationship with the Dodgers as their GM Anthopoulos came over from there. That's a very exciting lineup with
Acuna
Donaldson
Freeman
Puig
Albies
Camargo
Brantley would be my top COF choice but  
Eric on Li : 12/15/2018 10:44 am : link
I don't see them going multi-year for a COF only. Even if they end up dealing Nimmo I think someone like Marwin or Pollock is more likely since they'd have more defensive flexibility if Cespedes does actually come back at some point.
RE: RE: RE: Take this with a grain of salt  
Eric on Li : 12/15/2018 10:45 am : link
In comment 14219308 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14219305 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 14219300 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


but there are talks between the Dodgers and Braves involving Puig.



That would be an interesting move for Atl and I think be a very good calculated risk. Price of acquisition should be less than Goldschmidt and you guys certainly have the depth to do something similar.


It would be a better addition, assuming the price is fair, than giving a huge deal to Pollock or Brantley. Puig is under control for two more seasons. The Braves have a great relationship with the Dodgers as their GM Anthopoulos came over from there. That's a very exciting lineup with
Acuna
Donaldson
Freeman
Puig
Albies
Camargo


With Inciarte that OF would cover a lot of ground too.
I  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 10:47 am : link
don't think you understand how bad Castellnos is defensively (and he's not a big-time hitter as it is). The Mets OF defense with Nimmo in CF and Castellanos in RF would be the worst CF/RF combo in baseball that doesn't even include whatever Alonso is or isn't. Oh and he's due 11-12 million, a FA after the year and costs prospects. EXTREMELY hard pass. Awful addition
Steamer  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 10:49 am : link
projects Castellanos to be a 1.8 fWAR player. He's a name. Nothing more.
Oh  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 10:53 am : link
and teams don't move solid 3b to RF without a stud replacement unless they recognize... he's not a good 3b either... -14 DRS in 2017 at 3b. He's not good. As a FA on a cheap roll the dice? Maybe. As a trade target 11-12 this year? Absolutely not.
Maybe  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 10:58 am : link
he's being playful but Thor took a shot seemingly at Martino/Cerrone on his twitter saying "SNY is trying to trade me"
Call it a difference of philosophy  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 11:13 am : link
and Ive been over my opinions on this before, but...

First, I don't care about defense in a CO outfield spot similarly to 1B. The position should be heavily weighted towards offense. I heard the same thing about Bruce when he came here and I never remember him embarrassing himself outside of maybe of 1 or 2 times total. If he had hit last year and stayed healthy nobody would have complained at all. Castellanos made 3 errors in RF last year all season. That's one error every two months.

Second, for younger players coming off a breakout season, Steamer is never going to give a generous prediction. Steamer is conservative by nature anyways, but a younger player with not a lot of experience playing at a high level, is never going to get a high future prediction. However, sometimes 26 year olds, especially former first round picks, breakout. Steamer doesnt know their pedigree or who's who. Its a computer system based on the same sample without bias. That works against it. There's a difference between Castellanos having a big year at 26 and Ty Wiggington. I mean Nimmo was worth 4.5 fWAR last year. While he might take a small step back does anyone really think he's going to be worth about half that based on his Steamer projection? It's the same thing.

All the players mentioned have warts, but I like Castellanos as much M. Gonzalez, Pollock, and some of the names being thrown around.
RE: Call it a difference of philosophy  
Jay on the Island : 12/15/2018 11:19 am : link
In comment 14219336 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
and Ive been over my opinions on this before, but...

First, I don't care about defense in a CO outfield spot similarly to 1B. The position should be heavily weighted towards offense. I heard the same thing about Bruce when he came here and I never remember him embarrassing himself outside of maybe of 1 or 2 times total. If he had hit last year and stayed healthy nobody would have complained at all. Castellanos made 3 errors in RF last year all season. That's one error every two months.

Second, for younger players coming off a breakout season, Steamer is never going to give a generous prediction. Steamer is conservative by nature anyways, but a younger player with not a lot of experience playing at a high level, is never going to get a high future prediction. However, sometimes 26 year olds, especially former first round picks, breakout. Steamer doesnt know their pedigree or who's who. Its a computer system based on the same sample without bias. That works against it. There's a difference between Castellanos having a big year at 26 and Ty Wiggington. I mean Nimmo was worth 4.5 fWAR last year. While he might take a small step back does anyone really think he's going to be worth about half that based on his Steamer projection? It's the same thing.

All the players mentioned have warts, but I like Castellanos as much M. Gonzalez, Pollock, and some of the names being thrown around.

I'm very surprised by this as you are usually reference sabermetrics in most of your projections. I put more value in DRS than errors for an OF. If you disagree that's fine but my preference would be to pass especially since Castellanos will cost a decent prospect to acquire.
I love referencing  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 11:24 am : link
DRS and UZR with players Jay. I usually weigh them against each other. But Im expanding the conversation here. When it comes to corner outfield and first base you basically need a player that can hit (obviously we cant have a butcher there) or you end up spending big money on a Heyward which is a massive waste IMO. Well what's a butcher then? A butcher is putting Todd Hundley out in LF where he doesnt even know how to catch a ball. Castellanos played the bulk of the season in RF and only made three errors. Bruce was the worst RF in the game, or one of them coming over too but as soon as the season started nobody complained at all.

Its not like 3B or the middle infield where your athleticism is constantly on display and you have to make accurate decisions at a lighting pace. CO? Meh.. With defensive positioning these days most of the guess work is taking out of it.
There  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 11:25 am : link
is nothing about Castellanos "breakout" that is appealing.

1) K rate and BB rate was same as his career averages
2) BABIP was .361, he's always posted high BABIP but that's 30 points above his career number. He's not posting a .361 BABIP again. 4 players in major league history have a .360+ BABIP
3) Awful defender, errors are a ridiculous way to judge an OF. Fully ignores the balls he doesn't get to. Even on a simplistic level a casual fan would realize this so it's a strange stance to have.
4) ISO was WORSE than the previous year
5) He's going to be making 11-12 million, that's big money for the Mets. Not some "lets roll the dice"
6) There is no advantage to Castellanos other than the years of commitment over Nelson Cruz (not that I want Cruz) but similarly awful in the OF, better hitter.
6) He costs prospects, Tigers ask is reportedly quite high. So not really sure the Marwin Gonzalez comp. One costs legit prospects.


Fangraphs

"All in all, this wont be the most exciting offseason for the Tigers. While Im an advocate of the team trading Nicholas Castellanos before he hits free agency. hes is also nearly a hundred points off his June 1st OPS, and the market for corner types who dont contribute defensively has been extremely weak.
...  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 11:30 am : link
anthony fenech

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The Tigers have talked with the Mets about Castellanos, Im told. The asking price is high, among other words and phrases, according to multiple teams who have spoken with them.


Hard pass.
Eh...  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 11:31 am : link
He's also averaged north of 2 fWAR the last three seasons so while I agree he he had a high BABIP and might not be a wRC+ 130 guy next year, he also looks like a pretty safe bet to crush lefties and pop 20 HRs. I don't see particularly low floor coming. A RH player like that in the mix is something this teams needs IMO.
Jay Bruce isn't a great fielder  
Jay on the Island : 12/15/2018 11:31 am : link
but he never posted a season as bad as -19 DRS in his career. His worst season was -11 DRS but he only posted a - DRS one other time in his career which was -1 DRS. Bruce did post two seasons of +16 DRS which is quite good including his age 26 season.
team defense in baseball impacts every single game  
Eric on Li : 12/15/2018 11:31 am : link
and even the less important positions factor into that equation significantly. It's not about errors, it's about outs given back to the other team in the form of hits or extra bases. Not caring about defense is exactly how the Mets have been among the worst teams in the league in runs given back to their opposition by a variety of metrics over the past 3-5 years. Since losing the world series mostly because of bad defense and untimely hitting, they are -166 in DRS (2nd worst in baseball 2016-2018).

Can't fix a major problem like that by bringing more severe negative fielders - regardless of position.
RE: Jay Bruce isn't a great fielder  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 11:35 am : link
In comment 14219362 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
but he never posted a season as bad as -19 DRS in his career. His worst season was -11 DRS but he only posted a - DRS one other time in his career which was -1 DRS. Bruce did post two seasons of +16 DRS which is quite good including his age 26 season.


Yeah well I'd be wary of that DRS score too. UZR liked Castellanos better so I'd in the least weigh them against each other. Especially for a younger guy basically playing OF for the bulk of the season for the first time in his career. There's a real chance he could actually improve but we simply don't have a long enough sample of him there to call him a -18 DRS guy. .
RE: team defense in baseball impacts every single game  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 11:37 am : link
In comment 14219363 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
and even the less important positions factor into that equation significantly. It's not about errors, it's about outs given back to the other team in the form of hits or extra bases. Not caring about defense is exactly how the Mets have been among the worst teams in the league in runs given back to their opposition by a variety of metrics over the past 3-5 years. Since losing the world series mostly because of bad defense and untimely hitting, they are -166 in DRS (2nd worst in baseball 2016-2018).

Can't fix a major problem like that by bringing more severe negative fielders - regardless of position.


Disagree. Please tell me the last time a significant corner outfielder hurt the Mets chances in anything? I seriously cant remember anything. People point to Duda in the WS because of his throw (I doubt he gets the out even if it was on target) but Duda wasn't even a bad defender here. He was absolutely fine for 1B standards.
Puig  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 11:38 am : link
is "the guy" if you're looking at a Castellanos type move. Easily
RE: RE: team defense in baseball impacts every single game  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 11:41 am : link
In comment 14219368 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14219363 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


and even the less important positions factor into that equation significantly. It's not about errors, it's about outs given back to the other team in the form of hits or extra bases. Not caring about defense is exactly how the Mets have been among the worst teams in the league in runs given back to their opposition by a variety of metrics over the past 3-5 years. Since losing the world series mostly because of bad defense and untimely hitting, they are -166 in DRS (2nd worst in baseball 2016-2018).

Can't fix a major problem like that by bringing more severe negative fielders - regardless of position.



Disagree. Please tell me the last time a significant corner outfielder hurt the Mets chances in anything? I seriously cant remember anything. People point to Duda in the WS because of his throw (I doubt he gets the out even if it was on target) but Duda wasn't even a bad defender here. He was absolutely fine for 1B standards.


You can disagree all you want, your opinion flies in the face of the facts. You cost your team runs by not getting to balls. I'm not going down this rabbit hole with you but it's a very strange stance. Every ball that falls in is a potential run, how could you even argue otherwise? Why don't teams just stick poor fielders in the corners all the time? You are on an island for Castellanos. Lets hear this price you deem fair (remember he's taking up roughly half of the rumored 25ish they have remaining).
Honest  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 11:42 am : link
question. is there anyone else here who agrees OF defense isn't important and errors are a good way to judge them? I'm really perplexed here.
RE: Puig  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 11:42 am : link
In comment 14219369 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is "the guy" if you're looking at a Castellanos type move. Easily


Ill take Puig all day long.
ZGiants  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 11:44 am : link
if that's the case explain this

" the market for corner types who dont contribute defensively has been extremely weak."
RE: RE: Puig  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 11:46 am : link
In comment 14219375 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14219369 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is "the guy" if you're looking at a Castellanos type move. Easily



Ill take Puig all day long.


Puig comes with his own baggage but he can fake it in CF at times and I think he's the type that plays his ass off in a walk year. What that says about retaining him? Who knows. But I think he puts up a big time season. The Mets also have something of a vanilla roster. A little spice might be good for them.
RE: Honest  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 11:46 am : link
In comment 14219374 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
question. is there anyone else here who agrees OF defense isn't important and errors are a good way to judge them? I'm really perplexed here.


That's not what I said at all Dan. You guys laid out his DRS and UZR last year. I simply expanded the conversation. Like Bruce, everybody thought he was a butcher but with defensive positioning these days, offense is most important in a corner OF spot. If you want to talk about Nimmo in CF, well thats another conversation but in terms of Castellanos playing RF (and likely mixing in and out when Cespedes returns) I don't see a huge issues. The only reason I am pointing out errors is to show whether or not the guy was a three ring cirrus out there or not. That doesnt appear to be the case.
RE: ZGiants  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 11:49 am : link
In comment 14219376 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
if that's the case explain this

" the market for corner types who dont contribute defensively has been extremely weak."


Sounds like his price tag is still pretty high though. Like I said, most of the players have warts. Im not trying to change the conversation and say he's a good defender or something. Just trying to make an argument for adding his bat. I think he was the best in baseball last year in hitting lefties. Im ok with a few options there though. Still think we should resolve catcher first.
not looking for extended argument but the numbers speak for themselves  
Eric on Li : 12/15/2018 11:53 am : link
2016-2018
Mets overall DRS = -166 (2nd worst in baseball)
Mets overall UZR = -33 (7th worst in baseball)
Overall team run differential = -105

The reality is they have not had enough POSITIVE defenders in the last several years - Granderson in '15 and '16 made a ton of good catches and I believe got GG votes, Lagares is obviously beyond good when he plays. But that list is far too short. Average fielders may not do much damage but they don't help you either. To be good on defense you need good defenders, not average ones. And bad defenders are obviously very harmful.
To  
DanMetroMan : 12/15/2018 12:01 pm : link
change the topic a bit. Not really sure why everyone is so concerned about Grandal aging poorly


Russell Martin through 4 years has been worth his contract by fWAR. Granted year 5 will be a loss but 1. He's turning 36 2. Would anyone here not take 3 years of Grandal being an above average regular with year 4 being a "well his contract expires after the year, we need to replace him"? I would.
RE: not looking for extended argument but the numbers speak for themselves  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 12:18 pm : link
In comment 14219385 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
2016-2018
Mets overall DRS = -166 (2nd worst in baseball)
Mets overall UZR = -33 (7th worst in baseball)
Overall team run differential = -105

The reality is they have not had enough POSITIVE defenders in the last several years - Granderson in '15 and '16 made a ton of good catches and I believe got GG votes, Lagares is obviously beyond good when he plays. But that list is far too short. Average fielders may not do much damage but they don't help you either. To be good on defense you need good defenders, not average ones. And bad defenders are obviously very harmful.


I have no idea what you're trying to do by pooling all defensive metrics together and bringing in seasons where we had complete wipeouts in injuries and were playing guys like 38 year old Bautista in the OF. I agree we need to get better defensively, especially in the middle infield and at catcher. Third base was a disaster before Frazier stepped in last year. I certainly wouldn't want a butcher in CF (although I think Conforto and Nimmo can play there passably). Im simply stating that at the CO positions and 1B the positions need to be weighted towards offense. It is not acceptable to have league average offense at those positions. SS? Absolutely fine. Some people understand this. Some people don't I guess.
I'd be fine if the Mets pursued Puig  
pjcas18 : 12/15/2018 12:19 pm : link
however, I think it would be completely disingenuous of the Mets to be out on Machado b/c of "character" (my assumption) and then pursue Puig.

It is clearly because of money and they should just say that instead of offering up other reasons or letting people speculate.

RE: To  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14219390 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
change the topic a bit. Not really sure why everyone is so concerned about Grandal aging poorly


Russell Martin through 4 years has been worth his contract by fWAR. Granted year 5 will be a loss but 1. He's turning 36 2. Would anyone here not take 3 years of Grandal being an above average regular with year 4 being a "well his contract expires after the year, we need to replace him"? I would.


At this point, just sign him. The Realmuto rumors have made me sick.
Assuming Machado and Harper were never realistic...  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 12:23 pm : link
Im going to be pretty happy if we land one of the bigger catchers (Realmuto, Grandal, or Ramos) a RH hitting OF (Puig, Castellanos, M. Gonzalez, Pollock) and another reliever (Not an elite guy like Miller but a "name").

Thats a real solid offseason and it seems possible at this point IMO.
You are probably right ZG  
pjcas18 : 12/15/2018 12:41 pm : link
but Machado or Harper should have been realistic, both represented needs, both 26 years old superstars, and Machado especially costs only $$$. Harper needs a draft pick, but that should hardly be a consideration when adding a player of this caliber.

It's not often you have the chance to add a player like this without leveraging the farm.

Shit, a 24 year old closer cost 2 of the Mets top 5 prospects.

that is the plight of the Mets fan. There is no reasonable rational argument that Harper or Machado should not be realistic for the Mets, but here we are with many in the fan base automatically accepting that (not that we have any choice unless we jump ship like Arc did).
Well right or wrong  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 12:54 pm : link
Because of the Cano addition I dont think Machado should be a realistic want anymore. Starting the season with Frazier at 3B with McNeil hopefully looking to take over or at least platoon with him is one thing, but Machado completely boxes either him or Rosario out at this point. Harper, of course, I would still like but considering the suitors it was always a long shot even if money was limitless.

If you told me going in I couldnt have Machado or Harper but I could have three relievers (one the best closer in baseball last year, another a top setup option) , the best FA catcher, and two more additional bats coming off good seasons, one a Hall of Famer... I would have definitely signed up for that.
RE: To  
Eric on Li : 12/15/2018 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14219390 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
change the topic a bit. Not really sure why everyone is so concerned about Grandal aging poorly


Russell Martin through 4 years has been worth his contract by fWAR. Granted year 5 will be a loss but 1. He's turning 36 2. Would anyone here not take 3 years of Grandal being an above average regular with year 4 being a "well his contract expires after the year, we need to replace him"? I would.


My concern with Grandal isn't so much that he ages poorly but rather changes teams poorly and the uncertainty/volatility of framing metrics since that's where a ton of his value is built into. 1 observation Pitch framing metrics are highly volatile and 1 suggestion I've seen is it falls off dramatically after a certain age (like Maldonado, Lucroy, and Cervelli) but another observation is some of those guys stats were just better when the pitching staffs they caught were better.
I wonder if Colorado would still dump  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 12:57 pm : link
McGee with some cash and take back Vargas or something. McGee needs a change of scenery. We then could maybe nab Gio for the 5th spot.
I definitely think there are concerns  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 12:59 pm : link
With Grandal (check out his May, June, and July splits last year) but at this point he is a solid upgrade/veteran presence that this team sorely needs if they want to be playoff contenders.
RE: Well right or wrong  
pjcas18 : 12/15/2018 1:07 pm : link
In comment 14219429 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Because of the Cano addition I dont think Machado should be a realistic want anymore. Starting the season with Frazier at 3B with McNeil hopefully looking to take over or at least platoon with him is one thing, but Machado completely boxes either him or Rosario out at this point. Harper, of course, I would still like but considering the suitors it was always a long shot even if money was limitless.

If you told me going in I couldnt have Machado or Harper but I could have three relievers (one the best closer in baseball last year, another a top setup option) , the best FA catcher, and two more additional bats coming off good seasons, one a Hall of Famer... I would have definitely signed up for that.


Diaz and Harper/Machado should have absolutely ZERO to do with each other. Cano obviously does, but I'd be fine with Cano at 1B, Machado at 3B, Rosario at SS and McNeil at 2B.

Diaz cost Kelenic and Dunn, not $$$.

I think Cano and Diaz were almost separate transactions. At least they should be thought of that way.

Cano and $20M for Bruce and Swarzak

Diaz for Kelenic and Dunn.
Trading assets for Castellanos  
Metnut : 12/15/2018 1:18 pm : link
would be an awful move. We finally got rid of Bruce, an awful defender who cost us runs constantly with his pathetic range and now the idea is to give up assets and get an even worse fielder?

This is the NL, theres no DH. Ill pass on bringing in another butcher.
Jesus Christ  
PhiPsi125 : 12/15/2018 1:21 pm : link
Can we stop saying that we got a HALL OF FAMER as if we are getting Cano in his prime and not the 36 year old, recent PED user in the twilight of his career?
RE: Jesus Christ  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14219450 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
Can we stop saying that we got a HALL OF FAMER as if we are getting Cano in his prime and not the 36 year old, recent PED user in the twilight of his career?


Until he declines and there is evidence of that nope. Sorry. He got tested, was clean, served a 3 month suspension, came back and never skipped a beat.
RE: RE: Well right or wrong  
ZGiants98 : 12/15/2018 1:43 pm : link
In comment 14219441 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14219429 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Because of the Cano addition I dont think Machado should be a realistic want anymore. Starting the season with Frazier at 3B with McNeil hopefully looking to take over or at least platoon with him is one thing, but Machado completely boxes either him or Rosario out at this point. Harper, of course, I would still like but considering the suitors it was always a long shot even if money was limitless.

If you told me going in I couldnt have Machado or Harper but I could have three relievers (one the best closer in baseball last year, another a top setup option) , the best FA catcher, and two more additional bats coming off good seasons, one a Hall of Famer... I would have definitely signed up for that.



Diaz and Harper/Machado should have absolutely ZERO to do with each other. Cano obviously does, but I'd be fine with Cano at 1B, Machado at 3B, Rosario at SS and McNeil at 2B.

Diaz cost Kelenic and Dunn, not $$$.

I think Cano and Diaz were almost separate transactions. At least they should be thought of that way.

Cano and $20M for Bruce and Swarzak

Diaz for Kelenic and Dunn.


Huh? No idea what you are referring to here. I was saying the Cano addition makes Machado less of a need and would block a player. BVW has already said Alonso is the opening day starter. So either way somebody is getting screwed. Separately, I was commenting an offseason that brought in 6 quality players. I think that would have been a good offseason.
RE: Jesus Christ  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/15/2018 1:45 pm : link
In comment 14219450 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
Can we stop saying that we got a HALL OF FAMER as if we are getting Cano in his prime and not the 36 year old, recent PED user in the twilight of his career?


Hey, he's still a "hall of famer" for the remaining 1.5 years of his likely usefulness.
RE: RE: RE: Well right or wrong  
pjcas18 : 12/15/2018 2:02 pm : link
In comment 14219469 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14219441 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14219429 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Because of the Cano addition I dont think Machado should be a realistic want anymore. Starting the season with Frazier at 3B with McNeil hopefully looking to take over or at least platoon with him is one thing, but Machado completely boxes either him or Rosario out at this point. Harper, of course, I would still like but considering the suitors it was always a long shot even if money was limitless.

If you told me going in I couldnt have Machado or Harper but I could have three relievers (one the best closer in baseball last year, another a top setup option) , the best FA catcher, and two more additional bats coming off good seasons, one a Hall of Famer... I would have definitely signed up for that.



Diaz and Harper/Machado should have absolutely ZERO to do with each other. Cano obviously does, but I'd be fine with Cano at 1B, Machado at 3B, Rosario at SS and McNeil at 2B.

Diaz cost Kelenic and Dunn, not $$$.

I think Cano and Diaz were almost separate transactions. At least they should be thought of that way.

Cano and $20M for Bruce and Swarzak

Diaz for Kelenic and Dunn.



Huh? No idea what you are referring to here. I was saying the Cano addition makes Machado less of a need and would block a player. BVW has already said Alonso is the opening day starter. So either way somebody is getting screwed. Separately, I was commenting an offseason that brought in 6 quality players. I think that would have been a good offseason.


I was replying to this comment where besides the fact it hasn't happened, you seemed to lump in Diaz in some way to pursuing Machado or Harper.

The reason I replied to this is the "best closer in baseball last year" didn't cost $$$ he cost prospects, and should not be part of a "we can't sign Harper or Machado, but instead..." discussion.

Second, they only added two relievers (so far) and only one cost $$$ and it was not considered a lot of money.

They have not signed any free agent catchers and no additional bats other than the bloated 36-year old Cano's contract.


Quote:
If you told me going in I couldnt have Machado or Harper but I could have three relievers (one the best closer in baseball last year, another a top setup option) , the best FA catcher, and two more additional bats coming off good seasons, one a Hall of Famer... I would have definitely signed up for that.


As I've said, the Mets are better today than they were at season's end, but sometimes you go too far.
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