I missed seeing Otto Graham, but have seen every other “great” QB since. While there’s no right answer and some QBs excel in certain systems compared to others, I’d have to say, for me,
Steve Young went to my high school long after my time there. Greenwich High School in Connecticut. Greenwich also had a successful head coach, Sam Rutigliano. He went on to coach the Cleveland Browns.
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
its like asking if Tim Duncan is Tim Duncan without Pop and the Spurs.
Payton for me but never saw Johnny U (who my dad swears by) Â
Random statement but for pure tools and fear before his inaccuracy became well known Michael Vick was downright frightening. That game in Green Bay is one of the best performances i have ever seen. I feel like with the dog stuff and more mobile qbs people forget what a shock he was to the league.
One guy not mentioned that even though I disliked him he had an arm Â
Another QB I always felt history has under appreciated is Roger Staubach. And one of my favorites also Fran Tarkenton I think held some of the passing records when he retired.
I wish I could have seen Otto Graham and Sid Luckman play and impossible to compare those guys with today's players because the game is so very different.
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
RE: RE: RE: Oh my, if you aren't saying Tom Brady Â
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
The team, coach, he played with and era he plays in is what I was referring to.
Marino relative to his peers, was playing at a different level. By that measure, because it’s hard to compare across eras, Marino was the best ever.
Manning in this era of passing and great QBs is/was the best of the bunch but not by as much as Marino was in his time. Manning, though, checks all the boxes (including 2 rings) and revolutionized the position in his own way. He was an OC/QB in one. Computer for a brain and the talent to put the ball where he knew he had to. He also holds basically all meaningful records.
Manning is probably the safe choice. Though Marino may be the right one.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Oh my, if you aren't saying Tom Brady Â
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
The team, coach, he played with and era he plays in is what I was referring to.
Not sure what was so superior about his team or how the era makes a difference since this should be about wins/championships not stats. BB is a clearly great but lots of great Coach/QB combinations.
Lord, he would have 7 rings if it not for clutch Eli. Brady is the man...and its indisputable.
a QB played in comes into the discussion when comparing NFL QBs we probably will never see eye to eye and probably best to agree to disagree.
And I think it's reasonable to argue Brady is the most successful QB of all time, and while he is very accomplished IMO he isn't the "best" or most gifted I have seen play the position. And really most of these current crop of great QB's all acknowledge it's unfair for any one QB be considered the best when also considering the greats of other era's, but to each his own.
Randall Cunningham was pretty amazing when he played the Giants which made me hate him :) but he wasnt in the class of many others consistency wise week to week.
You know who probably had as much pure passing ability as anyone Â
It's too bad Young had to follow Montana because that's an impossible task. But was he a sensational QB. A two-time MVP. And beyond the great passing, he was as a good a runner as the game has seen. He compiled 4,200+ yards and 43 TDs.
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
RE: Again I struggle how Brady doesn’t go right to the top Â
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
OP question was who was the best QB "you" have seen play. You can't compare eras. I'm a Brady fan but do I think he could stay out with Namath and Stabler until dawn on sunday and put on the show those guys did? Do you think he could play with blood running down his face from a sack and no penalty getting called? What the QB's did in Tittle's era. Is he tough enough for that? Marino for me was the best QB I've ever seen play NFL football.
Who would you rather have sitting in a lounge chair on Miami beach sipping on a drink guarantying win? Willie Joe or Brady guarantying that nobody will hold us to 17 points?
As I stated. I'm a Brady fan of his era which is about over. Enjoyed watching him. Enjoyed watching Eli. Best I've ever seen? Nope. Not by a long shot.
RE: RE: You know who probably had as much pure passing ability as anyone Â
If you’re just talking about passing ability, maybe Kent Graham
Uh, what passing ability? To throw a ball throw a cash wash without getting it wet? Graham had limited ability - and I'm being kind - to put touch on the ball, vary speeds, vary trajectories, etc. And we're leaving out his decision making, and the all important mental side of the game.
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
Brady is undoubtedly great. And in this conversation.
But he's really a one-trick pony. A superb one-trick. But there are aspects about his game that, to me, limit his ability to convey into other systems/situations.
In other words, I'm of the mindset there are a lot more QBs we know who could fit just as well into the New England dynasty as Brady. But I'm not certain at all Brady could be anywhere as effective with other teams. I think his skill set isn't portable like the skill sets of Rodgers, Montana, Elway, etc.
RE: RE: Again I struggle how Brady doesn’t go right to the top Â
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
OP question was who was the best QB "you" have seen play. You can't compare eras. I'm a Brady fan but do I think he could stay out with Namath and Stabler until dawn on sunday and put on the show those guys did? Do you think he could play with blood running down his face from a sack and no penalty getting called? What the QB's did in Tittle's era. Is he tough enough for that? Marino for me was the best QB I've ever seen play NFL football.
Who would you rather have sitting in a lounge chair on Miami beach sipping on a drink guarantying win? Willie Joe or Brady guarantying that nobody will hold us to 17 points?
As I stated. I'm a Brady fan of his era which is about over. Enjoyed watching him. Enjoyed watching Eli. Best I've ever seen? Nope. Not by a long shot.
Marino was crazy-talented, no question but got to at least bring a ring to the table please to say BEST EVER SEEN...
BW - Montana had about as many pro bowlers on Offense Â
If the Giants drafted Joe Montana in the 3rd round in 1979 he wouldn't have lasted 3 years in the NFL. He had Bill Walsh. If Tom Brady went in the first round in 2000 to the Jets instead of 6th round to Belichick. He would have played for Al Groh an then Herman Edwards in 2001.
Some guys Elway, Staubach, Namath, Marino had the talent to be HOFers no matter who drafted and coached them. They didn't need the luck of a good landing spot. I know Staubach played for Landry and Marino played for Shula. Before anyone says anything.
If the Giants drafted Joe Montana in the 3rd round in 1979 he wouldn't have lasted 3 years in the NFL. He had Bill Walsh. If Tom Brady went in the first round in 2000 to the Jets instead of 6th round to Belichick. He would have played for Al Groh an then Herman Edwards in 2001.
Some guys Elway, Staubach, Namath, Marino had the talent to be HOFers no matter who drafted and coached them. They didn't need the luck of a good landing spot. I know Staubach played for Landry and Marino played for Shula. Before anyone says anything.
Good post. Lots to agree with here from a pure talent perspective. But could be discounting how Brady elevated his talent level while in the pros versus the guys you mentioned elevated it earlier while in college/earlier.
My choice has 5 rings no matter when he was drafted. Hell, Unitas wasn't even drafted I think...
RE: BW - Montana had about as many pro bowlers on Offense Â
a QB ever had. In the discussion of BEST EVER but not at top.
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
Nobody is asking you to. You are asking others to. Don't think you are comprehending that. He is the best you have ever seen? Great!!! That is all the OP asked for.
It's not a competition or a debate.
Others have there own favorites for a verity of reasons.
a QB ever had. In the discussion of BEST EVER but not at top.
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
No need to budge - I get it. Just trying to add some different color.
Elways dragged some mediocre Broncos teams to the Super Bowl. It was heroic. I gave him a long, long look because of that...
Totally agree. For a while there in the NFL it seemed like it was Elway vs the NFC East teams to win it all. Unfortunately for him the NFCE teams were beasts.
He sure as hell carried his team thru an entire conference in numerous seasons.
You may have the right case with Elway being really close but I always felt he became a better overall QB (vs passer) when he got that running back.
I witnessed him carry teams to the super bowl--lived in boulder from 83-94. I was very worried in 86 that he would single-handedly beat the giants especially after they lost S Terry Kinard forcing Herb Welch to play even though I knew they would be lucky to get 50 yards rushing--they got 52 but only because Elway had 27 on scrambles.
was Joe Montana. If we are down by four with a minute to go and the ball on our own 20 yard line, I want Joe Montana. He was the most accurate QB I have ever seen. Incredible under pressure. Watch his play at Notre Dame his senior year. The Cotton Bowl against Earl Campbell and Texas -- Wow!
In the modern era, Brady, Manning and Rodgers are special, but I'll take Montana.
Not sure if Dan Fouts was mentioned and he would not be close Â
who was my favorite player growing up as I was a Giant & Colt fan back then.
While he played with way too much reckless abandon and got injured too much because he loved to scramble, for a few years there in the 1970's Bert Jones was a special QB.
Rifle arm, accurate, super productive, relentlesss competitor and leader.
Just happened to play in an AFC-era dominated by Steelers and Raiders who had better overall rosters...
Otto Graham certainly belongs in this conversation. Â
I don't know who was the best, but I do know it wasn't dump and dink Montana. Montana was (1) the product of scheme and (2) an incredible supporting cast.
Had Montana and Simms been drafted by each others' teams, Montana would never have flourished with those Giants' teams, but Simms sure as hell would have more than matched Montana had he been fortunate enough to have played the new West Coast offense with that incredible supporting cast.
I know I am the only person on earth who thinks this way, but I will forever believe Simms was a better QB than Montana.
Y A Tittle
Steve Young
And my personal favorite Fran Tarkenton
Y A Tittle
Steve Young
And my personal favorite Fran Tarkenton
Steve Young went to my high school long after my time there. Greenwich High School in Connecticut. Greenwich also had a successful head coach, Sam Rutigliano. He went on to coach the Cleveland Browns.
What else does he need to prove?
What else does he need to prove?
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
Quote:
you have a screw loose.
What else does he need to prove?
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
Random statement but for pure tools and fear before his inaccuracy became well known Michael Vick was downright frightening. That game in Green Bay is one of the best performances i have ever seen. I feel like with the dog stuff and more mobile qbs people forget what a shock he was to the league.
Another QB I always felt history has under appreciated is Roger Staubach. And one of my favorites also Fran Tarkenton I think held some of the passing records when he retired.
I wish I could have seen Otto Graham and Sid Luckman play and impossible to compare those guys with today's players because the game is so very different.
Quote:
you have a screw loose.
What else does he need to prove?
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
Quote:
In comment 14218077 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
you have a screw loose.
What else does he need to prove?
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
The team, coach, he played with and era he plays in is what I was referring to.
Manning in this era of passing and great QBs is/was the best of the bunch but not by as much as Marino was in his time. Manning, though, checks all the boxes (including 2 rings) and revolutionized the position in his own way. He was an OC/QB in one. Computer for a brain and the talent to put the ball where he knew he had to. He also holds basically all meaningful records.
Manning is probably the safe choice. Though Marino may be the right one.
Quote:
In comment 14218084 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 14218077 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
you have a screw loose.
What else does he need to prove?
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
The team, coach, he played with and era he plays in is what I was referring to.
Not sure what was so superior about his team or how the era makes a difference since this should be about wins/championships not stats. BB is a clearly great but lots of great Coach/QB combinations.
Lord, he would have 7 rings if it not for clutch Eli. Brady is the man...and its indisputable.
And I think it's reasonable to argue Brady is the most successful QB of all time, and while he is very accomplished IMO he isn't the "best" or most gifted I have seen play the position. And really most of these current crop of great QB's all acknowledge it's unfair for any one QB be considered the best when also considering the greats of other era's, but to each his own.
He could spin it. Golden arm, tin foil mind.
It's too bad Young had to follow Montana because that's an impossible task. But was he a sensational QB. A two-time MVP. And beyond the great passing, he was as a good a runner as the game has seen. He compiled 4,200+ yards and 43 TDs.
A player who too easily gets lost in the sauce...
But, Brady and Marino get a big boost for winning all those SB rings.
NFL:
Untias in the 60's.
Staubach & Bradshaw in the 70's.
Montana, Marino, Elway in the 80's.
Peyton Manning & Tom Brady 2000's.
There is no way to compare the era's in the NFL. The game was completely different from one decade to the next until about 2000.
But, Brady and Marino get a big boost for winning all those SB rings.
Brady and Marino have a lot together - 5.
Alas, Brady has all five... ;)
Can’t remember who said it first, but so true I remember it today, million dollar arm, ten cent head.
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
OP question was who was the best QB "you" have seen play. You can't compare eras. I'm a Brady fan but do I think he could stay out with Namath and Stabler until dawn on sunday and put on the show those guys did? Do you think he could play with blood running down his face from a sack and no penalty getting called? What the QB's did in Tittle's era. Is he tough enough for that? Marino for me was the best QB I've ever seen play NFL football.
Who would you rather have sitting in a lounge chair on Miami beach sipping on a drink guarantying win? Willie Joe or Brady guarantying that nobody will hold us to 17 points?
As I stated. I'm a Brady fan of his era which is about over. Enjoyed watching him. Enjoyed watching Eli. Best I've ever seen? Nope. Not by a long shot.
If you’re just talking about passing ability, maybe Kent Graham
Uh, what passing ability? To throw a ball throw a cash wash without getting it wet? Graham had limited ability - and I'm being kind - to put touch on the ball, vary speeds, vary trajectories, etc. And we're leaving out his decision making, and the all important mental side of the game.
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
Brady is undoubtedly great. And in this conversation.
But he's really a one-trick pony. A superb one-trick. But there are aspects about his game that, to me, limit his ability to convey into other systems/situations.
In other words, I'm of the mindset there are a lot more QBs we know who could fit just as well into the New England dynasty as Brady. But I'm not certain at all Brady could be anywhere as effective with other teams. I think his skill set isn't portable like the skill sets of Rodgers, Montana, Elway, etc.
Quote:
If you are asking who was the best QB.
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
OP question was who was the best QB "you" have seen play. You can't compare eras. I'm a Brady fan but do I think he could stay out with Namath and Stabler until dawn on sunday and put on the show those guys did? Do you think he could play with blood running down his face from a sack and no penalty getting called? What the QB's did in Tittle's era. Is he tough enough for that? Marino for me was the best QB I've ever seen play NFL football.
Who would you rather have sitting in a lounge chair on Miami beach sipping on a drink guarantying win? Willie Joe or Brady guarantying that nobody will hold us to 17 points?
As I stated. I'm a Brady fan of his era which is about over. Enjoyed watching him. Enjoyed watching Eli. Best I've ever seen? Nope. Not by a long shot.
Marino was crazy-talented, no question but got to at least bring a ring to the table please to say BEST EVER SEEN...
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
Some guys Elway, Staubach, Namath, Marino had the talent to be HOFers no matter who drafted and coached them. They didn't need the luck of a good landing spot. I know Staubach played for Landry and Marino played for Shula. Before anyone says anything.
Some guys Elway, Staubach, Namath, Marino had the talent to be HOFers no matter who drafted and coached them. They didn't need the luck of a good landing spot. I know Staubach played for Landry and Marino played for Shula. Before anyone says anything.
Good post. Lots to agree with here from a pure talent perspective. But could be discounting how Brady elevated his talent level while in the pros versus the guys you mentioned elevated it earlier while in college/earlier.
My choice has 5 rings no matter when he was drafted. Hell, Unitas wasn't even drafted I think...
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
Nobody is asking you to. You are asking others to. Don't think you are comprehending that. He is the best you have ever seen? Great!!! That is all the OP asked for.
It's not a competition or a debate.
Others have there own favorites for a verity of reasons.
take it easy...
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
No need to budge - I get it. Just trying to add some different color.
Elways dragged some mediocre Broncos teams to the Super Bowl. It was heroic. I gave him a long, long look because of that...
Quote:
a QB ever had. In the discussion of BEST EVER but not at top.
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
No need to budge - I get it. Just trying to add some different color.
Elways dragged some mediocre Broncos teams to the Super Bowl. It was heroic. I gave him a long, long look because of that...
Totally agree. For a while there in the NFL it seemed like it was Elway vs the NFC East teams to win it all. Unfortunately for him the NFCE teams were beasts.
He sure as hell carried his team thru an entire conference in numerous seasons.
You may have the right case with Elway being really close but I always felt he became a better overall QB (vs passer) when he got that running back.
Marino is #2 for me
In the modern era, Brady, Manning and Rodgers are special, but I'll take Montana.
While he played with way too much reckless abandon and got injured too much because he loved to scramble, for a few years there in the 1970's Bert Jones was a special QB.
Rifle arm, accurate, super productive, relentlesss competitor and leader.
Just happened to play in an AFC-era dominated by Steelers and Raiders who had better overall rosters...
Had Montana and Simms been drafted by each others' teams, Montana would never have flourished with those Giants' teams, but Simms sure as hell would have more than matched Montana had he been fortunate enough to have played the new West Coast offense with that incredible supporting cast.
I know I am the only person on earth who thinks this way, but I will forever believe Simms was a better QB than Montana.