I missed seeing Otto Graham, but have seen every other “great” QB since. While there’s no right answer and some QBs excel in certain systems compared to others, I’d have to say, for me,
(When Dan Reeves wasn’t hamstringing him), I’d put John Elway at the top.
I think Elway had the best combination of arm strength, mobility and smarts. Others exceed Elway in the aforementioned areas individually, but not collectively IMHO.
Bert Jones had more raw talent than anyone I have seen play. If he was drafted in Oakland, Terry Bradshaw may never have won a Super Bowl. Baltimore ruined him. I know most will scoff at what I say but Bill B. agrees with me. Dan Marino is very close. His release was insane. Bert had a better arm and was much more athletic until he was injured. I also like Brady, Rodgers and Steve Young. I think Young was more talented by significant amount over Montana.
If you imagine all QBs being available in a draft class and Bill Walsh is picking, whom would he take?
I think Elway.
I saw Elway's home games his last year in college. The student section would do the "we are not worthy" bow about once a game.
It's funny that people say Elway and yet ELI has passed him in every statistical category and has the same number of rings. I just find that comical that people debate Eli as a HOF.
Guy could play and even at the end he almost had the Vikings in the Super Bowl if Peterson didn't cough it up over and over. Just thought I would throw him out as in his prime I liked watching him play.
Couldn't outlast Eli in the frozen title game though. Favre also had the best ability, availability, it is crazy he never missed a start.
Montana was poetry playing the position. Fluid, poised, smart and one of the great long ball throwers ever. Obviously not a big arm, but it seemed he always hit Rice, Taylor, Clark, etc perfectly in stride.
One of the great clutch players the game has ever seen. His numbers in that era - where football was still football - are brilliant.
Marino was the best thrower of the ball I had ever seen...until Rodgers arrived. There is nothing Rodgers can't do. He is the perfect blend of every attribute you want in a QB. And he delivers with great production and in big moments. So I submit Rodgers.
It just so happened that the prime of the BB-Brady era was taking place during his career. Very similar to the careers of Barkley/Stockton/Malone/Ewing during the Jordan era.
Those Colts teams were placed firmly on his back as he went against the great head coach-QB combo of all time, the greatest defensive mind of all time, and probably the 2nd or 3rd greatest QB of all time.
I believe much of the Colts postseason failures had to do with the culture of taking it easy before the playoffs that Polian seemed to believe in as well Jim Caldwell being a terrible HC.
I've been a Giants fan since 1986, and out of all the QB's I'd have to go with Joe Montana, he was at his best in the most pressure situations. He's the only QB to play in four super bowls, win them, and not throw one interception.
I remember this story about Lawrence Taylor. They asked him who is the greatest QB of all time, and he said Montana. They said why? He said because Montana literally changed the game.
Just as LT changed the game from the defensive side of the ball, Montana changed the game from the offensive side. No comparison.
Anyway, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. Montana did not have the arm of either of those (and Tom's is stronger than Peyton's). Elway has the arm, but not sure he could read defenses as well as Tom or Peyton. Not sure anyone could read a defense and make adjustments like Peyton.
but was too young to really appreciate him then. However, he remains one of the best of all time.
And I never saw Sammy Baugh who might be the best ever, all things considered.
Leadership ability is a huge part of being a pro QB, and that goes well beyond just being able to execute the throws. You also have to factor in ability to do other things like kick or run with the ball which were a whole lot more important in the old days when rosters were a lot smaller than they are now. And it's still about winning more than anything else, especially winning championships.
There are quite a few that I'd have to consider. Some names that haven't come up yet include Roger Staubach, Y.A. Tittle (for more than his GIANTS years), George Blanda, Warren Moon (combine what he did in the CFL and the NFL and he re-writes the record books), and Bart Starr.
I don't have a conclusion on this right now.
Been watching and following football for over 3 decades. Â
he was simply amazing to watch --- those of you who weren't alive or cognizant for that missed something special
When the Giants finally beat and broke him in the Championship when they were going for the 3-Peat -- and then went on to win the Super Bowl - it was one of the most amazing and emotional games I'd ever seen.
I don't think Brady is, ever was, better than Montana was to watch --- Brady doesn't move around the way Joe Montana did -- and Montana did things with much more pizzazz. Also QBs were not as protected by the rules then as they are now. Brady may not have lasted as long as he has playing under the same conditions.
after his loss vs. the Broncos in the AFC Champ game a few years back. I’ve never seen a better pass rush than what the Broncos had going that day. Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware just dominating, those are probably the best and 2nd best passrush 3-4 OLBs since LT and they were making Brady’s life a living hell that day. Brady got hit more times than Eli did in San Fran in '11.
Brady comes back after being hit 30 times and leads a vintage 4th quarter drive at the end. They lose because they don't get the 2pt conversion at the end, but the drive itself was one of the most impressive things I’ve seen from a QB.
Also his comeback vs. Atlanta in the Super Bowl was ridiculous, he hit several ridiculous throws in that comeback. Just a legend.
I think I'd take Rodgers or Montana over him for a game because of their mobility, but I don't trust their durability nearly as much so it's not too hard for me to choose Brady overall.
would be Brady. And it's not really even close anymore. Way better arm than Montana, and just as much, if not more magic -- and WITHOUT a Rice, Taylor, and Clarke. Much more important wins than Payton.
. You can give Bill credit all you want for creating a culture of excellence but the guy is a machine and won Super Bowls throwing to the likes of Troy Brown Deion Branch and Shane Vereen.
You could easily believe that without BB, Tom Brady won't have been anyone big.. without Steelers talent Bradshaw would have been average QB, without Walsh and the whole west coast offense Montana would've been just above average.. however Peyton was going to be good no matter who was the coach and what team drafted him.. Colts are a horrible franchise.. he took them to SB victory and took them to another one.. He went to SB with 4 separate coaches.. none of them are great coaches.. He was awesome at Ten in college.. Hence he is the only one during my timeframe that I can ensure regardless of conditions around him.. he would've been great..
If you imagine all QBs being available in a draft class and Bill Walsh is picking, whom would he take?
I think Elway.
I saw Elway's home games his last year in college. The student section would do the "we are not worthy" bow about once a game.
It's funny that people say Elway and yet ELI has passed him in every statistical category and has the same number of rings. I just find that comical that people debate Eli as a HOF.
I find it comical when people are incapable of contextualizing eras.
Even without looking at much footage to corroborate this Â
I'd still have to go with Montana. It seemed like he had a 360 degree range of vision and processed everything transpiring on the field. In an era where it was likely more difficult to truly anticipate a receiver freeing himself from the DB, his timing was pretty damned impressive.
I remember how fluidly and quickly he'd cover a crazy amount of yardage in his drops. It was like he would place himself out of harm's way and into the perfect spot to survey all the action in the time an average QB would only have performed one or two steps back.
Ever play a Madden game where the CPU goes into "you're going to break your controller" mode and simply can't be stopped? I felt like he was like that more often than anyone else.
Elisha Archibald Manning III. Look at old films of him at Ole Miss. Guy had every single tool...he could throw, he could run.
In 1969 he played Alabama, coached by the legend Bear Bryan. Archie threw for 36 yards and three touchdowns, also rushing for 104 yards, in a 33–32 loss. He scored 14 touchdowns in 1969. In both 1969 and 1970, he was named to the All-SEC team and his No. 18 jersey was retired by Ole Miss.
In 1972, he led the league in pass attempts and completions and led the National Football Conference in passing yards, though the team's record was only 2–11–1. During his time with the Saints, though, that team was beyond awful. His offensive line was no better that what we had last year, maybe worst. He was sacked 337 times during his Saints career.
Put him with the Steelers, and he would have had 6 rings or more. Best pure talent I ever saw coming out of college.
1. Peyton Manning - Guy was unreal between the ears. Could dissect a defense pre-snap better than anyone I’ve ever seen. So much so they had to put it in the Madden games. Even when he was bluffing calls you could
See linebackers getting nervous and wanting to change the defense because they think they’ve been figured out. He could throw it to anyone and make them looks 10x better than they probably were. Fundamentals were as crisp as it gets. Guy was everything I thought a QB should be.
2. Brett Favre - much of what I said about Manning would be the opposite for Favre. But Favre always appealed to the football player in me. He was a “By any means” kind of QB. He took the tough big play over the easy checkdown and would complete some of the most ill advised throws I’ve ever seen. You could tell his teammates would take a bullet for him and that every man on the roster believe in him in crunch time.
3. Aaron Rodgers - He makes QBing in the NFL look like the easiest thing. You’d think the difficulty of the game was turned down the way he consistently avoids defenders and fires 30+ yard bombs. He’s being wasted in Green Bay but that guys can carry an entire offense on his arm like very few.
but was too young to really appreciate him then. However, he remains one of the best of all time.
And I never saw Sammy Baugh who might be the best ever, all things considered.
Leadership ability is a huge part of being a pro QB, and that goes well beyond just being able to execute the throws. You also have to factor in ability to do other things like kick or run with the ball which were a whole lot more important in the old days when rosters were a lot smaller than they are now. And it's still about winning more than anything else, especially winning championships.
There are quite a few that I'd have to consider. Some names that haven't come up yet include Roger Staubach, Y.A. Tittle (for more than his GIANTS years), George Blanda, Warren Moon (combine what he did in the CFL and the NFL and he re-writes the record books), and Bart Starr.
I don't have a conclusion on this right now.
Saw Graham many times on TV when living & collegeing in southern Maine. Those Browns were great to watch but I was too immature to form a useful opinion.
Not sure for a career, probably defer to Unitas largely because of things I heard my dad say about him because I only remember the second half of his career which wasn't his best years.
Every bit as good as anyone and better than many above. But I mean, it’s not like there’s any outlandish takes here. No one mentioned Steve Young, he could run as well as anyone I’ve seen, including Vick and he could make all throws and make all the reads and he was a leader on and off the field.
Don't think I'm really adding anything, but the order might be interesting to some: Brady, Unitas, Montana/Aikman and Graham (Otto, not Kent or Billy).
And would have elevated any team during any era was John elway. There have been others that won more, passed for more and had more prolific careers but there’s a reason why guys like tom Brady or Montana or Bradshaw had “better” careers. They were just in the right place at the right time and to their credit, they took advantage of those situations. But in my opinion, elway goes to 5 Super Bowls no matter who who played for. I’m not sure Brady is Brady he was drafted by the falcons or jets.
Most prolific ? That’s a layup— it’s brady. Dig deeper, it’s elway or even marino. Thing is I cant shake the no super bowl titles thing even if it’s unfair.
Namath. Brady's great, but not that great. And the Ds have been so constrained now that "pressure on the QB" doesn't mean what it did in Namath's day, when you had a very real chance of getting killed.
Montana was poetry playing the position. Fluid, poised, smart and one of the great long ball throwers ever. Obviously not a big arm, but it seemed he always hit Rice, Taylor, Clark, etc perfectly in stride.
One of the great clutch players the game has ever seen. His numbers in that era - where football was still football - are brilliant.
Marino was the best thrower of the ball I had ever seen...until Rodgers arrived. There is nothing Rodgers can't do. He is the perfect blend of every attribute you want in a QB. And he delivers with great production and in big moments. So I submit Rodgers.
I concur 100%. Rodgers is the most talented passer to ever walk this earth.
Steve Young went to my high school long after my time there. Greenwich High School in Connecticut. Greenwich also had a successful head coach, Sam Rutigliano. He went on to coach the Cleveland Browns.
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
its like asking if Tim Duncan is Tim Duncan without Pop and the Spurs.
Payton for me but never saw Johnny U (who my dad swears by) Â
Random statement but for pure tools and fear before his inaccuracy became well known Michael Vick was downright frightening. That game in Green Bay is one of the best performances i have ever seen. I feel like with the dog stuff and more mobile qbs people forget what a shock he was to the league.
One guy not mentioned that even though I disliked him he had an arm Â
Another QB I always felt history has under appreciated is Roger Staubach. And one of my favorites also Fran Tarkenton I think held some of the passing records when he retired.
I wish I could have seen Otto Graham and Sid Luckman play and impossible to compare those guys with today's players because the game is so very different.
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
RE: RE: RE: Oh my, if you aren't saying Tom Brady Â
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
The team, coach, he played with and era he plays in is what I was referring to.
Marino relative to his peers, was playing at a different level. By that measure, because it’s hard to compare across eras, Marino was the best ever.
Manning in this era of passing and great QBs is/was the best of the bunch but not by as much as Marino was in his time. Manning, though, checks all the boxes (including 2 rings) and revolutionized the position in his own way. He was an OC/QB in one. Computer for a brain and the talent to put the ball where he knew he had to. He also holds basically all meaningful records.
Manning is probably the safe choice. Though Marino may be the right one.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Oh my, if you aren't saying Tom Brady Â
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
The team, coach, he played with and era he plays in is what I was referring to.
Not sure what was so superior about his team or how the era makes a difference since this should be about wins/championships not stats. BB is a clearly great but lots of great Coach/QB combinations.
Lord, he would have 7 rings if it not for clutch Eli. Brady is the man...and its indisputable.
a QB played in comes into the discussion when comparing NFL QBs we probably will never see eye to eye and probably best to agree to disagree.
And I think it's reasonable to argue Brady is the most successful QB of all time, and while he is very accomplished IMO he isn't the "best" or most gifted I have seen play the position. And really most of these current crop of great QB's all acknowledge it's unfair for any one QB be considered the best when also considering the greats of other era's, but to each his own.
Randall Cunningham was pretty amazing when he played the Giants which made me hate him :) but he wasnt in the class of many others consistency wise week to week.
You know who probably had as much pure passing ability as anyone Â
It's too bad Young had to follow Montana because that's an impossible task. But was he a sensational QB. A two-time MVP. And beyond the great passing, he was as a good a runner as the game has seen. He compiled 4,200+ yards and 43 TDs.
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
RE: Again I struggle how Brady doesn’t go right to the top Â
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
OP question was who was the best QB "you" have seen play. You can't compare eras. I'm a Brady fan but do I think he could stay out with Namath and Stabler until dawn on sunday and put on the show those guys did? Do you think he could play with blood running down his face from a sack and no penalty getting called? What the QB's did in Tittle's era. Is he tough enough for that? Marino for me was the best QB I've ever seen play NFL football.
Who would you rather have sitting in a lounge chair on Miami beach sipping on a drink guarantying win? Willie Joe or Brady guarantying that nobody will hold us to 17 points?
As I stated. I'm a Brady fan of his era which is about over. Enjoyed watching him. Enjoyed watching Eli. Best I've ever seen? Nope. Not by a long shot.
RE: RE: You know who probably had as much pure passing ability as anyone Â
If you’re just talking about passing ability, maybe Kent Graham
Uh, what passing ability? To throw a ball throw a cash wash without getting it wet? Graham had limited ability - and I'm being kind - to put touch on the ball, vary speeds, vary trajectories, etc. And we're leaving out his decision making, and the all important mental side of the game.
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
Brady is undoubtedly great. And in this conversation.
But he's really a one-trick pony. A superb one-trick. But there are aspects about his game that, to me, limit his ability to convey into other systems/situations.
In other words, I'm of the mindset there are a lot more QBs we know who could fit just as well into the New England dynasty as Brady. But I'm not certain at all Brady could be anywhere as effective with other teams. I think his skill set isn't portable like the skill sets of Rodgers, Montana, Elway, etc.
RE: RE: Again I struggle how Brady doesn’t go right to the top Â
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
OP question was who was the best QB "you" have seen play. You can't compare eras. I'm a Brady fan but do I think he could stay out with Namath and Stabler until dawn on sunday and put on the show those guys did? Do you think he could play with blood running down his face from a sack and no penalty getting called? What the QB's did in Tittle's era. Is he tough enough for that? Marino for me was the best QB I've ever seen play NFL football.
Who would you rather have sitting in a lounge chair on Miami beach sipping on a drink guarantying win? Willie Joe or Brady guarantying that nobody will hold us to 17 points?
As I stated. I'm a Brady fan of his era which is about over. Enjoyed watching him. Enjoyed watching Eli. Best I've ever seen? Nope. Not by a long shot.
Marino was crazy-talented, no question but got to at least bring a ring to the table please to say BEST EVER SEEN...
BW - Montana had about as many pro bowlers on Offense Â
If the Giants drafted Joe Montana in the 3rd round in 1979 he wouldn't have lasted 3 years in the NFL. He had Bill Walsh. If Tom Brady went in the first round in 2000 to the Jets instead of 6th round to Belichick. He would have played for Al Groh an then Herman Edwards in 2001.
Some guys Elway, Staubach, Namath, Marino had the talent to be HOFers no matter who drafted and coached them. They didn't need the luck of a good landing spot. I know Staubach played for Landry and Marino played for Shula. Before anyone says anything.
If the Giants drafted Joe Montana in the 3rd round in 1979 he wouldn't have lasted 3 years in the NFL. He had Bill Walsh. If Tom Brady went in the first round in 2000 to the Jets instead of 6th round to Belichick. He would have played for Al Groh an then Herman Edwards in 2001.
Some guys Elway, Staubach, Namath, Marino had the talent to be HOFers no matter who drafted and coached them. They didn't need the luck of a good landing spot. I know Staubach played for Landry and Marino played for Shula. Before anyone says anything.
Good post. Lots to agree with here from a pure talent perspective. But could be discounting how Brady elevated his talent level while in the pros versus the guys you mentioned elevated it earlier while in college/earlier.
My choice has 5 rings no matter when he was drafted. Hell, Unitas wasn't even drafted I think...
RE: BW - Montana had about as many pro bowlers on Offense Â
a QB ever had. In the discussion of BEST EVER but not at top.
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
Nobody is asking you to. You are asking others to. Don't think you are comprehending that. He is the best you have ever seen? Great!!! That is all the OP asked for.
It's not a competition or a debate.
Others have there own favorites for a verity of reasons.
a QB ever had. In the discussion of BEST EVER but not at top.
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
No need to budge - I get it. Just trying to add some different color.
Elways dragged some mediocre Broncos teams to the Super Bowl. It was heroic. I gave him a long, long look because of that...
Totally agree. For a while there in the NFL it seemed like it was Elway vs the NFC East teams to win it all. Unfortunately for him the NFCE teams were beasts.
He sure as hell carried his team thru an entire conference in numerous seasons.
You may have the right case with Elway being really close but I always felt he became a better overall QB (vs passer) when he got that running back.
I witnessed him carry teams to the super bowl--lived in boulder from 83-94. I was very worried in 86 that he would single-handedly beat the giants especially after they lost S Terry Kinard forcing Herb Welch to play even though I knew they would be lucky to get 50 yards rushing--they got 52 but only because Elway had 27 on scrambles.
was Joe Montana. If we are down by four with a minute to go and the ball on our own 20 yard line, I want Joe Montana. He was the most accurate QB I have ever seen. Incredible under pressure. Watch his play at Notre Dame his senior year. The Cotton Bowl against Earl Campbell and Texas -- Wow!
In the modern era, Brady, Manning and Rodgers are special, but I'll take Montana.
Not sure if Dan Fouts was mentioned and he would not be close Â
who was my favorite player growing up as I was a Giant & Colt fan back then.
While he played with way too much reckless abandon and got injured too much because he loved to scramble, for a few years there in the 1970's Bert Jones was a special QB.
Rifle arm, accurate, super productive, relentlesss competitor and leader.
Just happened to play in an AFC-era dominated by Steelers and Raiders who had better overall rosters...
Otto Graham certainly belongs in this conversation. Â
I don't know who was the best, but I do know it wasn't dump and dink Montana. Montana was (1) the product of scheme and (2) an incredible supporting cast.
Had Montana and Simms been drafted by each others' teams, Montana would never have flourished with those Giants' teams, but Simms sure as hell would have more than matched Montana had he been fortunate enough to have played the new West Coast offense with that incredible supporting cast.
I know I am the only person on earth who thinks this way, but I will forever believe Simms was a better QB than Montana.
After Eli, of course?
As in person and/or TV
also of note, with one more win, Eli ties Joe Montana
Link - ( New Window )
Bart Starr won 5 Titles. Nobody mentions him.
I think Elway had the best combination of arm strength, mobility and smarts. Others exceed Elway in the aforementioned areas individually, but not collectively IMHO.
I brushed past him on Bourbon Street in New Orleans a few years back, and I still felt like climbing a tree.
I think Elway.
I saw Elway's home games his last year in college. The student section would do the "we are not worthy" bow about once a game.
He just didn't have the career to match
Ernie, is that you???
Apparently, all the Marino fans showed up here at the same time.
I think Elway.
I saw Elway's home games his last year in college. The student section would do the "we are not worthy" bow about once a game.
It's funny that people say Elway and yet ELI has passed him in every statistical category and has the same number of rings. I just find that comical that people debate Eli as a HOF.
Guy could play and even at the end he almost had the Vikings in the Super Bowl if Peterson didn't cough it up over and over. Just thought I would throw him out as in his prime I liked watching him play.
Couldn't outlast Eli in the frozen title game though. Favre also had the best ability, availability, it is crazy he never missed a start.
Quote:
The point is to win games and championships and no one has come close to doing that on the level he has.
Bart Starr won 5 Titles. Nobody mentions him.
Brady’s greatness speaks for itself, but the best 2 CLUTCH QBs I ever saw, were Starr and Montana
Montana was poetry playing the position. Fluid, poised, smart and one of the great long ball throwers ever. Obviously not a big arm, but it seemed he always hit Rice, Taylor, Clark, etc perfectly in stride.
One of the great clutch players the game has ever seen. His numbers in that era - where football was still football - are brilliant.
Marino was the best thrower of the ball I had ever seen...until Rodgers arrived. There is nothing Rodgers can't do. He is the perfect blend of every attribute you want in a QB. And he delivers with great production and in big moments. So I submit Rodgers.
Those Colts teams were placed firmly on his back as he went against the great head coach-QB combo of all time, the greatest defensive mind of all time, and probably the 2nd or 3rd greatest QB of all time.
I believe much of the Colts postseason failures had to do with the culture of taking it easy before the playoffs that Polian seemed to believe in as well Jim Caldwell being a terrible HC.
I remember this story about Lawrence Taylor. They asked him who is the greatest QB of all time, and he said Montana. They said why? He said because Montana literally changed the game.
Just as LT changed the game from the defensive side of the ball, Montana changed the game from the offensive side. No comparison.
Anyway, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. Montana did not have the arm of either of those (and Tom's is stronger than Peyton's). Elway has the arm, but not sure he could read defenses as well as Tom or Peyton. Not sure anyone could read a defense and make adjustments like Peyton.
Cannot chose between P. Manning or Brady.
I wish we could see how Brady is without little Bill. We could really get a clear picture if one begets the other
Most jaw-dropping - Elway
Best ball - Marino
If I had to choose though I'd say Brady. He's an absolute machine. He hits the "routine" plays at an absurd percentage.
And I never saw Sammy Baugh who might be the best ever, all things considered.
Leadership ability is a huge part of being a pro QB, and that goes well beyond just being able to execute the throws. You also have to factor in ability to do other things like kick or run with the ball which were a whole lot more important in the old days when rosters were a lot smaller than they are now. And it's still about winning more than anything else, especially winning championships.
There are quite a few that I'd have to consider. Some names that haven't come up yet include Roger Staubach, Y.A. Tittle (for more than his GIANTS years), George Blanda, Warren Moon (combine what he did in the CFL and the NFL and he re-writes the record books), and Bart Starr.
I don't have a conclusion on this right now.
This is a good question...
bw in dc : 3:12 pm : link : reply
by a very ordinary poster - BB'56.
😂😂😂
I would grade him as high as Saquon Barkley.
it was excruciating to watch Manning outcoach Perry Fewell.
When the Giants finally beat and broke him in the Championship when they were going for the 3-Peat -- and then went on to win the Super Bowl - it was one of the most amazing and emotional games I'd ever seen.
I don't think Brady is, ever was, better than Montana was to watch --- Brady doesn't move around the way Joe Montana did -- and Montana did things with much more pizzazz. Also QBs were not as protected by the rules then as they are now. Brady may not have lasted as long as he has playing under the same conditions.
Brady comes back after being hit 30 times and leads a vintage 4th quarter drive at the end. They lose because they don't get the 2pt conversion at the end, but the drive itself was one of the most impressive things I’ve seen from a QB.
Also his comeback vs. Atlanta in the Super Bowl was ridiculous, he hit several ridiculous throws in that comeback. Just a legend.
I think I'd take Rodgers or Montana over him for a game because of their mobility, but I don't trust their durability nearly as much so it's not too hard for me to choose Brady overall.
Best passer is still Marino.
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If you imagine all QBs being available in a draft class and Bill Walsh is picking, whom would he take?
I think Elway.
I saw Elway's home games his last year in college. The student section would do the "we are not worthy" bow about once a game.
It's funny that people say Elway and yet ELI has passed him in every statistical category and has the same number of rings. I just find that comical that people debate Eli as a HOF.
I find it comical when people are incapable of contextualizing eras.
I remember how fluidly and quickly he'd cover a crazy amount of yardage in his drops. It was like he would place himself out of harm's way and into the perfect spot to survey all the action in the time an average QB would only have performed one or two steps back.
Ever play a Madden game where the CPU goes into "you're going to break your controller" mode and simply can't be stopped? I felt like he was like that more often than anyone else.
In 1969 he played Alabama, coached by the legend Bear Bryan. Archie threw for 36 yards and three touchdowns, also rushing for 104 yards, in a 33–32 loss. He scored 14 touchdowns in 1969. In both 1969 and 1970, he was named to the All-SEC team and his No. 18 jersey was retired by Ole Miss.
In 1972, he led the league in pass attempts and completions and led the National Football Conference in passing yards, though the team's record was only 2–11–1. During his time with the Saints, though, that team was beyond awful. His offensive line was no better that what we had last year, maybe worst. He was sacked 337 times during his Saints career.
Put him with the Steelers, and he would have had 6 rings or more. Best pure talent I ever saw coming out of college.
Link to Archie Manning's Ole Miss highlight (facebook) - ( New Window )
See linebackers getting nervous and wanting to change the defense because they think they’ve been figured out. He could throw it to anyone and make them looks 10x better than they probably were. Fundamentals were as crisp as it gets. Guy was everything I thought a QB should be.
2. Brett Favre - much of what I said about Manning would be the opposite for Favre. But Favre always appealed to the football player in me. He was a “By any means” kind of QB. He took the tough big play over the easy checkdown and would complete some of the most ill advised throws I’ve ever seen. You could tell his teammates would take a bullet for him and that every man on the roster believe in him in crunch time.
3. Aaron Rodgers - He makes QBing in the NFL look like the easiest thing. You’d think the difficulty of the game was turned down the way he consistently avoids defenders and fires 30+ yard bombs. He’s being wasted in Green Bay but that guys can carry an entire offense on his arm like very few.
And I never saw Sammy Baugh who might be the best ever, all things considered.
Leadership ability is a huge part of being a pro QB, and that goes well beyond just being able to execute the throws. You also have to factor in ability to do other things like kick or run with the ball which were a whole lot more important in the old days when rosters were a lot smaller than they are now. And it's still about winning more than anything else, especially winning championships.
There are quite a few that I'd have to consider. Some names that haven't come up yet include Roger Staubach, Y.A. Tittle (for more than his GIANTS years), George Blanda, Warren Moon (combine what he did in the CFL and the NFL and he re-writes the record books), and Bart Starr.
I don't have a conclusion on this right now.
Saw Graham many times on TV when living & collegeing in southern Maine. Those Browns were great to watch but I was too immature to form a useful opinion.
Joe Montana
Tom Brady
Bert Jones
Brett Farve
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Bert Jones had more raw talent than anyone I have seen play.
Ernie, is that you???
Can't believe I missed this. LOL - Greg.
Johnny Unitas
Joe Montana
Tom Brady
Most prolific ? That’s a layup— it’s brady. Dig deeper, it’s elway or even marino. Thing is I cant shake the no super bowl titles thing even if it’s unfair.
Can’t really go wrong here but his postseason splits are hard to ignore.
Namath. Brady's great, but not that great. And the Ds have been so constrained now that "pressure on the QB" doesn't mean what it did in Namath's day, when you had a very real chance of getting killed.
Montana was poetry playing the position. Fluid, poised, smart and one of the great long ball throwers ever. Obviously not a big arm, but it seemed he always hit Rice, Taylor, Clark, etc perfectly in stride.
One of the great clutch players the game has ever seen. His numbers in that era - where football was still football - are brilliant.
Marino was the best thrower of the ball I had ever seen...until Rodgers arrived. There is nothing Rodgers can't do. He is the perfect blend of every attribute you want in a QB. And he delivers with great production and in big moments. So I submit Rodgers.
Y A Tittle
Steve Young
And my personal favorite Fran Tarkenton
Y A Tittle
Steve Young
And my personal favorite Fran Tarkenton
Steve Young went to my high school long after my time there. Greenwich High School in Connecticut. Greenwich also had a successful head coach, Sam Rutigliano. He went on to coach the Cleveland Browns.
What else does he need to prove?
What else does he need to prove?
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
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you have a screw loose.
What else does he need to prove?
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
Random statement but for pure tools and fear before his inaccuracy became well known Michael Vick was downright frightening. That game in Green Bay is one of the best performances i have ever seen. I feel like with the dog stuff and more mobile qbs people forget what a shock he was to the league.
Another QB I always felt history has under appreciated is Roger Staubach. And one of my favorites also Fran Tarkenton I think held some of the passing records when he retired.
I wish I could have seen Otto Graham and Sid Luckman play and impossible to compare those guys with today's players because the game is so very different.
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you have a screw loose.
What else does he need to prove?
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
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In comment 14218077 Jimmy Googs said:
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you have a screw loose.
What else does he need to prove?
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
The team, coach, he played with and era he plays in is what I was referring to.
Manning in this era of passing and great QBs is/was the best of the bunch but not by as much as Marino was in his time. Manning, though, checks all the boxes (including 2 rings) and revolutionized the position in his own way. He was an OC/QB in one. Computer for a brain and the talent to put the ball where he knew he had to. He also holds basically all meaningful records.
Manning is probably the safe choice. Though Marino may be the right one.
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In comment 14218084 steve in ky said:
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In comment 14218077 Jimmy Googs said:
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you have a screw loose.
What else does he need to prove?
Almost impossible to fairly compare QB's of different era's but my take on it is I believe there have been other QB's that could have accomplished what Brady has if placed in the same situation but I'm not convinced Brady could have done the same if that were to be reversed.
What situation was Brady placed in? He makes it the situation...
The team, coach, he played with and era he plays in is what I was referring to.
Not sure what was so superior about his team or how the era makes a difference since this should be about wins/championships not stats. BB is a clearly great but lots of great Coach/QB combinations.
Lord, he would have 7 rings if it not for clutch Eli. Brady is the man...and its indisputable.
And I think it's reasonable to argue Brady is the most successful QB of all time, and while he is very accomplished IMO he isn't the "best" or most gifted I have seen play the position. And really most of these current crop of great QB's all acknowledge it's unfair for any one QB be considered the best when also considering the greats of other era's, but to each his own.
He could spin it. Golden arm, tin foil mind.
It's too bad Young had to follow Montana because that's an impossible task. But was he a sensational QB. A two-time MVP. And beyond the great passing, he was as a good a runner as the game has seen. He compiled 4,200+ yards and 43 TDs.
A player who too easily gets lost in the sauce...
But, Brady and Marino get a big boost for winning all those SB rings.
NFL:
Untias in the 60's.
Staubach & Bradshaw in the 70's.
Montana, Marino, Elway in the 80's.
Peyton Manning & Tom Brady 2000's.
There is no way to compare the era's in the NFL. The game was completely different from one decade to the next until about 2000.
But, Brady and Marino get a big boost for winning all those SB rings.
Brady and Marino have a lot together - 5.
Alas, Brady has all five... ;)
Can’t remember who said it first, but so true I remember it today, million dollar arm, ten cent head.
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
OP question was who was the best QB "you" have seen play. You can't compare eras. I'm a Brady fan but do I think he could stay out with Namath and Stabler until dawn on sunday and put on the show those guys did? Do you think he could play with blood running down his face from a sack and no penalty getting called? What the QB's did in Tittle's era. Is he tough enough for that? Marino for me was the best QB I've ever seen play NFL football.
Who would you rather have sitting in a lounge chair on Miami beach sipping on a drink guarantying win? Willie Joe or Brady guarantying that nobody will hold us to 17 points?
As I stated. I'm a Brady fan of his era which is about over. Enjoyed watching him. Enjoyed watching Eli. Best I've ever seen? Nope. Not by a long shot.
If you’re just talking about passing ability, maybe Kent Graham
Uh, what passing ability? To throw a ball throw a cash wash without getting it wet? Graham had limited ability - and I'm being kind - to put touch on the ball, vary speeds, vary trajectories, etc. And we're leaving out his decision making, and the all important mental side of the game.
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
Brady is undoubtedly great. And in this conversation.
But he's really a one-trick pony. A superb one-trick. But there are aspects about his game that, to me, limit his ability to convey into other systems/situations.
In other words, I'm of the mindset there are a lot more QBs we know who could fit just as well into the New England dynasty as Brady. But I'm not certain at all Brady could be anywhere as effective with other teams. I think his skill set isn't portable like the skill sets of Rodgers, Montana, Elway, etc.
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If you are asking who was the best QB.
I of course realize that he didn’t have the strongest arm or was the purest passer but that’s not the question. He has been a great pocket passer, accurate as hell, great game manager, could win in shootouts and close games, durable as anybody. Oh...and he played in and won more Superbowls than anybody else. Those factors are far more important versus comparing stats as the passing game is more evolved today that in earlier decades.
While he certainly benefited with having BB around as coach i could point to numerous QBs listed above that played for HOF coaches. Also it wasn’t as if he played with numerous HOF players though (at least I don’t recall so).
Brady has great stats but the qualities above tell me he would have won in any a lot of eras.
Second choice is Johnny Unitas and anybody else is a distant third...
OP question was who was the best QB "you" have seen play. You can't compare eras. I'm a Brady fan but do I think he could stay out with Namath and Stabler until dawn on sunday and put on the show those guys did? Do you think he could play with blood running down his face from a sack and no penalty getting called? What the QB's did in Tittle's era. Is he tough enough for that? Marino for me was the best QB I've ever seen play NFL football.
Who would you rather have sitting in a lounge chair on Miami beach sipping on a drink guarantying win? Willie Joe or Brady guarantying that nobody will hold us to 17 points?
As I stated. I'm a Brady fan of his era which is about over. Enjoyed watching him. Enjoyed watching Eli. Best I've ever seen? Nope. Not by a long shot.
Marino was crazy-talented, no question but got to at least bring a ring to the table please to say BEST EVER SEEN...
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
Some guys Elway, Staubach, Namath, Marino had the talent to be HOFers no matter who drafted and coached them. They didn't need the luck of a good landing spot. I know Staubach played for Landry and Marino played for Shula. Before anyone says anything.
Some guys Elway, Staubach, Namath, Marino had the talent to be HOFers no matter who drafted and coached them. They didn't need the luck of a good landing spot. I know Staubach played for Landry and Marino played for Shula. Before anyone says anything.
Good post. Lots to agree with here from a pure talent perspective. But could be discounting how Brady elevated his talent level while in the pros versus the guys you mentioned elevated it earlier while in college/earlier.
My choice has 5 rings no matter when he was drafted. Hell, Unitas wasn't even drafted I think...
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
Nobody is asking you to. You are asking others to. Don't think you are comprehending that. He is the best you have ever seen? Great!!! That is all the OP asked for.
It's not a competition or a debate.
Others have there own favorites for a verity of reasons.
take it easy...
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
No need to budge - I get it. Just trying to add some different color.
Elways dragged some mediocre Broncos teams to the Super Bowl. It was heroic. I gave him a long, long look because of that...
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a QB ever had. In the discussion of BEST EVER but not at top.
Elway probably had the best arm and a few other great qualities but its when Davis dominated that he won those superbowls.
All good debates but not straying from my horse (Brady)...
No need to budge - I get it. Just trying to add some different color.
Elways dragged some mediocre Broncos teams to the Super Bowl. It was heroic. I gave him a long, long look because of that...
Totally agree. For a while there in the NFL it seemed like it was Elway vs the NFC East teams to win it all. Unfortunately for him the NFCE teams were beasts.
He sure as hell carried his team thru an entire conference in numerous seasons.
You may have the right case with Elway being really close but I always felt he became a better overall QB (vs passer) when he got that running back.
Marino is #2 for me
In the modern era, Brady, Manning and Rodgers are special, but I'll take Montana.
While he played with way too much reckless abandon and got injured too much because he loved to scramble, for a few years there in the 1970's Bert Jones was a special QB.
Rifle arm, accurate, super productive, relentlesss competitor and leader.
Just happened to play in an AFC-era dominated by Steelers and Raiders who had better overall rosters...
Had Montana and Simms been drafted by each others' teams, Montana would never have flourished with those Giants' teams, but Simms sure as hell would have more than matched Montana had he been fortunate enough to have played the new West Coast offense with that incredible supporting cast.
I know I am the only person on earth who thinks this way, but I will forever believe Simms was a better QB than Montana.