A) Re-sign him to big extension
B) Let him Walk
C) Only a 1-year Prove it Deal
After seeing the D last week does anyone think we should devote big cap $$$ to Collins? I would personally just let Michael Thomas play there and look for a speedy FS.
Yes - he's the defensive captain. But I also have a sneaking suspicion Gettleman will let him walk and use the $$$ to beef up the OL and front 7.
Where do you stand?
No way you can pay him like an all-star ball-hawking free safety.
Collins Market Value per Spotrac - ( New Window )
Mark Barron did it. Deone Bucannon did it.
It would only serve to benefit his career.
That doesn't tell me he's seen as a future building block.
I'll opine after the final game.
Michael Thomas is not a starting quality SS in the NFL.
Seems like the kind of player coaches love. Hard nosed, team oriented, leader, but I have no idea what they will or should do.
Saying the defense was good last week without him isn t really fair. That was a decimated team who has quit on the season emotionally.
Michael Thomas is not a starting quality SS in the NFL.
Mark Barron is 1 inch taller and 6 pounds lighter.
Collins in a Hybrid position would be the best for him and the Giants.
But JonC is smarter than me.
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I'd look to keep him if it's in the $10M per range. He's a damned good SS but needs talent around him so he focuses on his assignments, see : 2016.
Michael Thomas is not a starting quality SS in the NFL.
Mark Barron is 1 inch taller and 6 pounds lighter.
Collins in a Hybrid position would be the best for him and the Giants.
But JonC is smarter than me.
Look at their body types and how the weight is distributed over their frames. Those making the transition are built differently than LC, and you should want to preserve his health too. In a hybrid role, he could get some LB looks as he has this season in certain packages. But, a full time move does not compute.
That is not why he is here
If he can't pass a physical by whatever the appropriate date is, I can see the Giants removing the tag, and offering a 1yr deal for less. Most teams will have issues getting him in under that cap. We saw what happened this year to safeties...
Figure his camp pushes for $12M per as a floor, and they settle between 10-12, is my guesstimation.
You may be right. But...can the Giants get a decent FS and SS with all the other needs?
given the amount of passing yards that teams regularly put up, I'm not sure where all these other shut down safeties are throughout the league.
Figure his camp pushes for $12M per as a floor, and they settle between 10-12, is my guesstimation.
They don't do it for every player, but it seems to be quite specific. With the FT being about $12M, he will want to start there. My question regarding the rehab is will he be healthy enough to pass a physical when FA opens? No GM will sign Collins without a physical. If he misses out on the initial wave of FA, he might have to settle for our best offer even on a short term basis to reestablish his market value. We saw last off-season the market fall for safeties that languished on the market past the initial wave of FA.
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open market inflation.
Figure his camp pushes for $12M per as a floor, and they settle between 10-12, is my guesstimation.
They don't do it for every player, but it seems to be quite specific. With the FT being about $12M, he will want to start there. My question regarding the rehab is will he be healthy enough to pass a physical when FA opens? No GM will sign Collins without a physical. If he misses out on the initial wave of FA, he might have to settle for our best offer even on a short term basis to reestablish his market value. We saw last off-season the market fall for safeties that languished on the market past the initial wave of FA.
Labrum repair can range 3-6 months, probably why they chose to get it done now and watch out for his future. Agree on the open market for safeties falling off, and SS are typically "easier" to find in the college ranks, plug them in and play downhill.
He's supposed to be very good.
That’s what I was thinking. Riley hasn’t exactly lit the world on fire!
Watching closely it seems Bettcher's scheme is most effective with guys who have multiple assignments. BBI has soured on his coverage abilities but imo there are many coverage assignments he can succeed in, and of course there are other contain/run assignments that he succeeds in as well. With his talent there are many, many things he can do. I think the NYG know this and will make him a nice long-term offer. Looking at what quality safeties make in the league I think JonC is right on the money wrt the offer and ultimate take.
That's my fear. I think with the guys we now have at CB, we're OK there with Beal. But missing 2 decent safeties is hard to fill. Don't want 2 JAGs there.
I know this doesn't give any picks should Collins leave but it has some interesting options.
First of all, we can match any deal he signs elsewhere letting us see what the market it like.
If the deal is likely to be more than we are comfortable paying, it will be a fairly substantial contract which increases the value for the compensationary pick formula.
Team building wise though, its hard to pay a SS that kind of money. If it comes down to him or Sterling Sheppard, I think Shepard has a bigger impact. But also, would take him over olgetree, another player i like but don't like spending big money on.
Curtis Riley should only be brought back in a backup/ST role. He has been absolutely awful for most of the season with the exception of a few plays. He is dreadful versus the run and often takes terrible angles that lead to big gains. The safety position is in need for another overhaul.
Two out of three NFL plays are pass plays.
The back seven has to be able to pass cover.
Even if you moved him to lb he still would have to cover and pass coverage is simply not within his skill set
If the Reese / Ross years proved anything, it is that you cannot build a winning team by continually letting your better players walk away instead of giving them a second contract. You can't grossly overpay a guy, but you can't let decent players walk for average money either.
OK, he's not a great cover guy. They need to get a center fielder who is one - and another one for the bench, need to continue to beef up the corners, and let Collins do what he does best which is run support. The run game is still important, especially to cold weather teams in cold weather divisions like the NFC East minus Dallass.
Let’s see him one more year under Betcher(sp) system
He has his weaknesses but he's a playmaker. In today's NFL, it's okay to give up yardage, the rules favor that, but you need guys that come up with big plays that create turnovers or stall drives. Collins does that at a high rate. When the players around him do their job he can be the best player on a top defense, which was the case in 16. You don't just let a guy like that walk.
I literally elaborated in the very next sentence and he almost won defensive MVP a couple years ago based on exactly what I described.
Allow yourself an easy exit after a year or two if he doesn't turn out to be a difference maker once we surround him with the talent JonC wants.
Set your value, and stick to it, only exceeding it slightly. I don't pretend to be a savvy evaluator, but I get the gut feeling that he isn't worth a kick ass contract. He's worth bringing back, but you can't go crazy. There's only so many huge contracts you can afford, and I don't think it's a slam dunk he should be one of them
Obviously, we need to see what happens the rest of the year, and what other options are available at what price. If we barely miss a beat with him out, close the doors of that money wagon.
He isn’t the greatest cover guy, but a safety on a TE is often a mismatch simply due to size. I don’t know what kind of money it would take to sign him but I’d do it as long as it isn’t crazy money.
Options are tag him or extend him and it's going to be expensive.
Collins IS a top 5 safety in the NFL - and I'm not just talking about SS.
Dude had a NFL type season in 2016. How quickly we forget.
It's not that he won't receive a longterm offer elsewhere: it's that his market value (may be) down. If it is, he can sign a 1-year prove it deal in NY, attempt to re-establish his market value and then become a FA in 2020.
Of course, if someone backs up the BRINKS truck he's gone, but short of that, the 1-year deal could be a smart move on his part.
It wouldn't shock me if someone in the NFL was willing to make him the highest paid safety in the league.
This.
This team needs talented players. Letting him walk just creates another hole that needs to be filled. We could do alot worse than Collins back there.
Despite our recent winning ways, I still feel like we need a near total overhaul in our LB and DB corps, not to mention our OL and potentially a Franchise QB.
Re-signing LC means one less desperate need for us to address in March/April.
Or it may be a different position that should get the bucks. Would a good center and an ok SS make more sense, for example.
In a vacuum, it's easy to say give him the money and retain him, but it's not a vacuum.
The Giants should keep Collins because he runs and hits and blitzes and tackles better than other player on the defense.
But Collins, as he has revealed himself to be an imperfect safety who doesn't cover too well, has to realize that he is not going to get a monster salary from another team now that he will be returning from surgery.
I hope that he won't make the same mistake that nearly every other free agent who chose to leave the Giants has made, which is overvaluing himself. Starting with Steve Smith and Kevin Bossy and Plax, what these guys wound up with was a short stay with the teams that took them in.
The smart thing for him to do is to stay home with the Giants and keep his career moving along.
As for the Giants, do they really want to add a safety to the shopping list that includes already the very expensive positions of QB and pass rusher?
But we want him...
In his 4 years here he's had one great season and three average seasons. IMO a one year prove-it deal is fine.
He's a better coverage guy than he's being portrayed--not great, but liveable. Frankly, it's bad scheming to place and measure him in coverage versus "the George Kittles" of the NFL, especially given the non-pass rush in the first 7-10 games.
I love Landon---I'm wearing his Shirt today.