I think this was the mathematically correct decision. KC winning the toss is a highly likely defeat (75-80%) and going for 2 with a good play caller and good QB is much better than a break-even proposition against an average defense
Also have to factor in odds of missing extra point.
I think this was the mathematically correct decision. KC winning the toss is a highly likely defeat (75-80%) and going for 2 with a good play caller and good QB is much better than a break-even proposition against an average defense
Maybe so, but I reckon two thirds of the coaches don't do it, at least.
Shurmur did this against the Falcons when we scored a TD to bring that game within 8. He should have waited until there was an actual chance to win the game with a 2-pt try, but that's a discussion for another time.
It's actually not that hard a call--
The Chargers are probably not stopping Mahomes in OT, so they have no better than a 50-50 chance in OT.
Therefore, they believed that with Rivers and a creative play call, their chances to win were far better with one play from the 2 yard line than an OT where they might never see the ball
Not ballsy but the mathematically correct decision knowing how good Mahomes is in his stadium and the probability that losing the coin toss means they are never getting the ball in OT (Chiefs win with a TD)
I'm surprised more coaches don't do that in those kinds of situations
that Rivers has his helmet off arguing the non call on the helmet to helmet play> Isn't that a penalty>
I believe at that point a timeout had been called and players can remove their helmets
Clock was stopped but I don't think there was a TO called. I could be wrong. Either way, shitty officiating at the end (again). This league needs to get its shit together.
Every bit the qb of Eli and Ben. Goes into KC against a 11-2 team without his number 1 WR, his TE all year (Henry), and his top two RBs
One of the more heroic performances I've ever seen
I've seen so many excuses the past 6 years on here for so much less... it's good to see passion from someone so hungry - good luck Rivers. I'm a fan now.
This sport has become unwatchable with the officiating
...It's completely bizarre. There is no rhyme or reason. Obvious penalties not called, game changing penalties called for absolutely nothing. It's like the fucking NBA.
But it feels like this is Rivers best chance. Now in the home field seed, and NE is having a weird season. It just feels like this may be his best shot, especially after a win like tonight.
I think this was the mathematically correct decision. KC winning the toss is a highly likely defeat (75-80%) and going for 2 with a good play caller and good QB is much better than a break-even proposition against an average defense
Maybe so, but I reckon two thirds of the coaches don't do it, at least.
Matt Nagy for unknown reasons chose to play for OT rather go for the W after the Bears two weeks ago had just pulled off the near impossible.
He took his chances with the coin flip and nearly never got the ball because Shepard missed the TD in the end zone.
How a coach can justify playing for a coin flip as opposed to one play at the 2 yard line where you win the game outright or go home (as opposed to what Ron Rivera did with over a minute left at Detroit where he wasnt guaranteed anything) is logically and mathematically head scratching
If they dont win their division... they lose home field advantage. Then drop to 4 seed and have to face a team like Baltimore again in the first round.
Every bit the qb of Eli and Ben. Goes into KC against a 11-2 team without his number 1 WR, his TE all year (Henry), and his top two RBs
One of the more heroic performances I've ever seen
I've seen so many excuses the past 6 years on here for so much less... it's good to see passion from someone so hungry - good luck Rivers. I'm a fan now.
+1 I hope Rivers win it all this year. Love his fury and he deserves a SB since Eli and Ben both won 2 SB
I think this was the mathematically correct decision. KC winning the toss is a highly likely defeat (75-80%) and going for 2 with a good play caller and good QB is much better than a break-even proposition against an average defense
No brainer territory. League average on 2 pters is close to 60% (which in a vacuum, means just about any team should be going for it here without flinching). Playing the league's best offense, with a weak defense, on the road...no brainer.
If they dont win their division... they lose home field advantage. Then drop to 4 seed and have to face a team like Baltimore again in the first round.
What a must win at Seattle next week.
No. If KC doesn't win the division they will not be the 4 seed and no they will not face Baltimore in the first round. They'd be the 5 seed and play someone like Houston.
If they dont win their division... they lose home field advantage. Then drop to 4 seed and have to face a team like Baltimore again in the first round.
What a must win at Seattle next week.
No. If KC doesn't win the division they will not be the 4 seed and no they will not face Baltimore in the first round. They'd be the 5 seed and play someone like Houston.
Youre correct about 5 seed. I think Houston will either be the 2 or 3 seed tho. I think Pitt or Baltimore will be 4.
that Rivers has his helmet off arguing the non call on the helmet to helmet play> Isn't that a penalty>
I believe at that point a timeout had been called and players can remove their helmets
Clock was stopped but I don't think there was a TO called. I could be wrong. Either way, shitty officiating at the end (again). This league needs to get its shit together.
The playoffs. Their cornerbacks may actually be the worst in football. Their LBs are slow. Their defense is predicated on Ford, Jones, and Houston. Without a run game will hurt them as well.
Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill will have to be even better than they are now. These next two weeks are ginormous for them.
The playoffs. Their cornerbacks may actually be the worst in football. Their LBs are slow. Their defense is predicated on Ford, Jones, and Houston. Without a run game will hurt them as well.
Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill will have to be even better than they are now. These next two weeks are ginormous for them.
have been one of the most entertaining games of the year and yet, it felt like I was watching a ref-fest. The officials literally had a hand in 4 TD drives, including the game ending one.
It has really gotten to a tipping point where officiating is taking away from the players making the plays.
The playoffs. Their cornerbacks may actually be the worst in football. Their LBs are slow. Their defense is predicated on Ford, Jones, and Houston. Without a run game will hurt them as well.
Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill will have to be even better than they are now. These next two weeks are ginormous for them.
I think the return of Derrick Johnson will help significantly.
Youre telling me an awful INT at the end of the half wasnt a game changer? 😉
Not when the same QB comes back out and leads his team to 22 second half points and a game winning drive, without his top 3 weapons (and no starting TE all year either).
I think that was Rivers 11th career comeback when trailing by 14+ points, more than his peers.
Youre telling me an awful INT at the end of the half wasnt a game changer? 😉
Not when the same QB comes back out and leads his team to 22 second half points and a game winning drive, without his top 3 weapons (and no starting TE all year either).
I think that was Rivers 11th career comeback when trailing by 14+ points, more than his peers.
It was tongue in cheek because Rivers throw, while terrible, was not a game changer. No INTs in the first half ever are.
The playoffs. Their cornerbacks may actually be the worst in football. Their LBs are slow. Their defense is predicated on Ford, Jones, and Houston. Without a run game will hurt them as well.
Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill will have to be even better than they are now. These next two weeks are ginormous for them.
I dont think the Rams are built for the playoffs either.
Both teams remind me a lot of that 90s Vikings team that came up short.
The playoffs. Their cornerbacks may actually be the worst in football. Their LBs are slow. Their defense is predicated on Ford, Jones, and Houston. Without a run game will hurt them as well.
Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill will have to be even better than they are now. These next two weeks are ginormous for them.
I dont think the Rams are built for the playoffs either.
Both teams remind me a lot of that 90s Vikings team that came up short.
Could be right - they aren't the same team without Kupp.
Both the Chiefs and Rams are teams that need to get the number 1 seeds to have a shot. Rams are better than KC but they won't win in the NO dome.
it doesn't have to be him vs. Eli. Both teams are probably happy with what they got. The guy made some ridiculous throws last night especially on that last drive. He throws some head scratching int's like Eli (that one right before the half was an Eli special) he's probably overall been better than Eli in the regular season, obviously he didnt have the 2 playoff runs Eli did. You can argue over the talent around them over their careers. Did Rivers ever have the pass rush helping the team the way Eli did in 07 and 11? who knows. At the end of the day they both have had excellent careers.
it either, but the Chiefs were bounced last year by the Titans in a ridiculous loss and they are seemingly no better than the Bengals when it comes to making the playoffs.
Then again - Lewis somehow keeps his job too.
RE: I really came to the conclusion last night about Rivers
it doesn't have to be him vs. Eli. Both teams are probably happy with what they got. The guy made some ridiculous throws last night especially on that last drive. He throws some head scratching int's like Eli (that one right before the half was an Eli special) he's probably overall been better than Eli in the regular season, obviously he didnt have the 2 playoff runs Eli did. You can argue over the talent around them over their careers. Did Rivers ever have the pass rush helping the team the way Eli did in 07 and 11? who knows. At the end of the day they both have had excellent careers.
Agree - look, all 3 teams (incl Pitt) have to be happy with how it turned out. You could make cases for all 3 in the HoF... and at least all passed on JP Losman.
I will say for whatever reason Rivers seems to have aged better than the other two -- he's been playing better football the past two years than Ben and Eli. Maybe its due to less postseason wear and tear in his career, maybe he's been more driven recently due to lack of Superbowls, who knows.
Of the three, I'd want Eli or Rivers on my team the most. Drama Ben (not to mention the rape) would tire really fast - can you imagine Eli taking himself out of the game for two quarters (YET again) last weekend in Oakland, only to come back in for the final drive and try to play hero ? (and of course they lost on a missed FG)
RE: Andy Reid is definitely starting to approach Schottenheimer territory
One playoff win in the last ten years. If he goes out immediately this year, the pressure is really going to ramp up.
The comparison is apt, but at least Reid go to a SB. Poor Marty had his heart broken so many times - Earnest Byner, The Drive, the Pats in '06.
Do you ever see the Marty pre-game speech when he was in Cleveland? The Gleam Speech.
"There's a gleam men. A gleam! Now let's get that gleam!"
True - but in some ways not winning the division, with a first year starting QB, takes a lot of that pressure off.
If they lose up at Seattle which could easily happen and LAC runs the table - they finish 12-4 with losses all to teams with 11+ wins... then they go to Pittsburgh in the wild card... which everyone knows is a very difficult game. They lose - most chalk it up to bad luck of the draw.
Conversely, if they win the division -- and lose at home to whoever in the division round.. then its viewed as yet another choke and the heat does get amped up.
RE: RE: I really came to the conclusion last night about Rivers
it doesn't have to be him vs. Eli. Both teams are probably happy with what they got. The guy made some ridiculous throws last night especially on that last drive. He throws some head scratching int's like Eli (that one right before the half was an Eli special) he's probably overall been better than Eli in the regular season, obviously he didnt have the 2 playoff runs Eli did. You can argue over the talent around them over their careers. Did Rivers ever have the pass rush helping the team the way Eli did in 07 and 11? who knows. At the end of the day they both have had excellent careers.
Agree - look, all 3 teams (incl Pitt) have to be happy with how it turned out. You could make cases for all 3 in the HoF... and at least all passed on JP Losman.
I will say for whatever reason Rivers seems to have aged better than the other two -- he's been playing better football the past two years than Ben and Eli. Maybe its due to less postseason wear and tear in his career, maybe he's been more driven recently due to lack of Superbowls, who knows.
Of the three, I'd want Eli or Rivers on my team the most. Drama Ben (not to mention the rape) would tire really fast - can you imagine Eli taking himself out of the game for two quarters (YET again) last weekend in Oakland, only to come back in for the final drive and try to play hero ? (and of course they lost on a missed FG)
SD has done a much better job surrounding Rivers with a better defense and obviously Melvin Gordon has been a huge help. They can run the ball. They get after the QB. They are doing things right there. And Rivers is allowed to shine and doesnt really have to carry the team anymore (even though he still does on occasions.)
their defense has been quite pedestrian this year after being very good last year.
Rivers is playing much better individual football in his late 30s than his peers. Thats more a testament to him than a knock on the others... though I for one am sick and tired of Ben's hypochondriac bullshit.
their defense has been quite pedestrian this year after being very good last year.
I think their defense is peaking at the right time. Derwin James is a stud. Bosa is getting into a rhythm. Ingram is very good too.
They do have holes. Losing Verrett early in the year was a killer. Liguet too. But I noticed as the game went on, they were really getting after Mahomes. And even though Mahomes made some plays early.... when the pocket collapsed, he was getting sacked, hurried, and rushing throws as the game went on.
Their DL will be a force in the playoffs.
RE: RE: RE: Andy Reid is definitely starting to approach Schottenheimer territory
True - but in some ways not winning the division, with a first year starting QB, takes a lot of that pressure off.
If they lose up at Seattle which could easily happen and LAC runs the table - they finish 12-4 with losses all to teams with 11+ wins... then they go to Pittsburgh in the wild card... which everyone knows is a very difficult game. They lose - most chalk it up to bad luck of the draw.
Conversely, if they win the division -- and lose at home to whoever in the division round.. then its viewed as yet another choke and the heat does get amped up.
Throw in the team's dismissal of Hunt, one of the best RBs in the game, and you may be right. There is some slack for Reid...
Maybe if they had some draft picks to shore it up 😉
Quote:
Gotta admire the balls.
I think this was the mathematically correct decision. KC winning the toss is a highly likely defeat (75-80%) and going for 2 with a good play caller and good QB is much better than a break-even proposition against an average defense
Also have to factor in odds of missing extra point.
I believe at that point a timeout had been called and players can remove their helmets
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In comment 14218160 santacruzom said:
Quote:
Gotta admire the balls.
I think this was the mathematically correct decision. KC winning the toss is a highly likely defeat (75-80%) and going for 2 with a good play caller and good QB is much better than a break-even proposition against an average defense
Maybe so, but I reckon two thirds of the coaches don't do it, at least.
Shurmur did this against the Falcons when we scored a TD to bring that game within 8. He should have waited until there was an actual chance to win the game with a 2-pt try, but that's a discussion for another time.
It's actually not that hard a call--
The Chargers are probably not stopping Mahomes in OT, so they have no better than a 50-50 chance in OT.
Therefore, they believed that with Rivers and a creative play call, their chances to win were far better with one play from the 2 yard line than an OT where they might never see the ball
No, there was a time-out taken.
Not ballsy but the mathematically correct decision knowing how good Mahomes is in his stadium and the probability that losing the coin toss means they are never getting the ball in OT (Chiefs win with a TD)
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that Rivers has his helmet off arguing the non call on the helmet to helmet play> Isn't that a penalty>
I believe at that point a timeout had been called and players can remove their helmets
Clock was stopped but I don't think there was a TO called. I could be wrong. Either way, shitty officiating at the end (again). This league needs to get its shit together.
That throw on 4th and 8 on that last drive was as good as it gets...
One of the more heroic performances I've ever seen
I've seen so many excuses the past 6 years on here for so much less... it's good to see passion from someone so hungry - good luck Rivers. I'm a fan now.
Rivers has a ton of experience and they play well on the road.
Most dangerous team in the AFC heading into the playoffs.
He was excellent on the last drive but bailed on consistently by the refs on the first and last scoring drives.
Quote:
In comment 14218160 santacruzom said:
Quote:
Gotta admire the balls.
I think this was the mathematically correct decision. KC winning the toss is a highly likely defeat (75-80%) and going for 2 with a good play caller and good QB is much better than a break-even proposition against an average defense
Maybe so, but I reckon two thirds of the coaches don't do it, at least.
Matt Nagy for unknown reasons chose to play for OT rather go for the W after the Bears two weeks ago had just pulled off the near impossible.
He took his chances with the coin flip and nearly never got the ball because Shepard missed the TD in the end zone.
How a coach can justify playing for a coin flip as opposed to one play at the 2 yard line where you win the game outright or go home (as opposed to what Ron Rivera did with over a minute left at Detroit where he wasnt guaranteed anything) is logically and mathematically head scratching
I dont see them beating NE in NE if they face them.
What a must win at Seattle next week.
One of the more heroic performances I've ever seen
I've seen so many excuses the past 6 years on here for so much less... it's good to see passion from someone so hungry - good luck Rivers. I'm a fan now.
+1 I hope Rivers win it all this year. Love his fury and he deserves a SB since Eli and Ben both won 2 SB
Quote:
Gotta admire the balls.
I think this was the mathematically correct decision. KC winning the toss is a highly likely defeat (75-80%) and going for 2 with a good play caller and good QB is much better than a break-even proposition against an average defense
No brainer territory. League average on 2 pters is close to 60% (which in a vacuum, means just about any team should be going for it here without flinching). Playing the league's best offense, with a weak defense, on the road...no brainer.
What a must win at Seattle next week.
No. If KC doesn't win the division they will not be the 4 seed and no they will not face Baltimore in the first round. They'd be the 5 seed and play someone like Houston.
I think it's simple: they don't want to face the internal and external criticism if they don't convert.
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If they dont win their division... they lose home field advantage. Then drop to 4 seed and have to face a team like Baltimore again in the first round.
What a must win at Seattle next week.
No. If KC doesn't win the division they will not be the 4 seed and no they will not face Baltimore in the first round. They'd be the 5 seed and play someone like Houston.
Youre correct about 5 seed. I think Houston will either be the 2 or 3 seed tho. I think Pitt or Baltimore will be 4.
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In comment 14218161 kennyd said:
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that Rivers has his helmet off arguing the non call on the helmet to helmet play> Isn't that a penalty>
I believe at that point a timeout had been called and players can remove their helmets
Clock was stopped but I don't think there was a TO called. I could be wrong. Either way, shitty officiating at the end (again). This league needs to get its shit together.
Chargers used their last timeout
Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill will have to be even better than they are now. These next two weeks are ginormous for them.
Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill will have to be even better than they are now. These next two weeks are ginormous for them.
Theyll be going to the playoffs 🤷🏻♂️
It has really gotten to a tipping point where officiating is taking away from the players making the plays.
Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill will have to be even better than they are now. These next two weeks are ginormous for them.
I think the return of Derrick Johnson will help significantly.
Not when the same QB comes back out and leads his team to 22 second half points and a game winning drive, without his top 3 weapons (and no starting TE all year either).
I think that was Rivers 11th career comeback when trailing by 14+ points, more than his peers.
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Youre telling me an awful INT at the end of the half wasnt a game changer? 😉
Not when the same QB comes back out and leads his team to 22 second half points and a game winning drive, without his top 3 weapons (and no starting TE all year either).
I think that was Rivers 11th career comeback when trailing by 14+ points, more than his peers.
It was tongue in cheek because Rivers throw, while terrible, was not a game changer. No INTs in the first half ever are.
That throw on 4th and 8 on that last drive was as good as it gets...
Wasnt this an * game though?
Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill will have to be even better than they are now. These next two weeks are ginormous for them.
I dont think the Rams are built for the playoffs either.
Both teams remind me a lot of that 90s Vikings team that came up short.
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The playoffs. Their cornerbacks may actually be the worst in football. Their LBs are slow. Their defense is predicated on Ford, Jones, and Houston. Without a run game will hurt them as well.
Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill will have to be even better than they are now. These next two weeks are ginormous for them.
I dont think the Rams are built for the playoffs either.
Both teams remind me a lot of that 90s Vikings team that came up short.
Could be right - they aren't the same team without Kupp.
Both the Chiefs and Rams are teams that need to get the number 1 seeds to have a shot. Rams are better than KC but they won't win in the NO dome.
It will be yet another impressive regular season that comes crashing down. I'd think there'd be some heat there.
And it could happen - KC has a terrible D and they may have peaked - especially if Hill is banged up.
Then again - Lewis somehow keeps his job too.
Agree - look, all 3 teams (incl Pitt) have to be happy with how it turned out. You could make cases for all 3 in the HoF... and at least all passed on JP Losman.
I will say for whatever reason Rivers seems to have aged better than the other two -- he's been playing better football the past two years than Ben and Eli. Maybe its due to less postseason wear and tear in his career, maybe he's been more driven recently due to lack of Superbowls, who knows.
Of the three, I'd want Eli or Rivers on my team the most. Drama Ben (not to mention the rape) would tire really fast - can you imagine Eli taking himself out of the game for two quarters (YET again) last weekend in Oakland, only to come back in for the final drive and try to play hero ? (and of course they lost on a missed FG)
The comparison is apt, but at least Reid go to a SB. Poor Marty had his heart broken so many times - Earnest Byner, The Drive, the Pats in '06.
Do you ever see the Marty pre-game speech when he was in Cleveland? The Gleam Speech.
"There's a gleam men. A gleam! Now let's get that gleam!"
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One playoff win in the last ten years. If he goes out immediately this year, the pressure is really going to ramp up.
The comparison is apt, but at least Reid go to a SB. Poor Marty had his heart broken so many times - Earnest Byner, The Drive, the Pats in '06.
Do you ever see the Marty pre-game speech when he was in Cleveland? The Gleam Speech.
"There's a gleam men. A gleam! Now let's get that gleam!"
True - but in some ways not winning the division, with a first year starting QB, takes a lot of that pressure off.
If they lose up at Seattle which could easily happen and LAC runs the table - they finish 12-4 with losses all to teams with 11+ wins... then they go to Pittsburgh in the wild card... which everyone knows is a very difficult game. They lose - most chalk it up to bad luck of the draw.
Conversely, if they win the division -- and lose at home to whoever in the division round.. then its viewed as yet another choke and the heat does get amped up.
Quote:
it doesn't have to be him vs. Eli. Both teams are probably happy with what they got. The guy made some ridiculous throws last night especially on that last drive. He throws some head scratching int's like Eli (that one right before the half was an Eli special) he's probably overall been better than Eli in the regular season, obviously he didnt have the 2 playoff runs Eli did. You can argue over the talent around them over their careers. Did Rivers ever have the pass rush helping the team the way Eli did in 07 and 11? who knows. At the end of the day they both have had excellent careers.
Agree - look, all 3 teams (incl Pitt) have to be happy with how it turned out. You could make cases for all 3 in the HoF... and at least all passed on JP Losman.
I will say for whatever reason Rivers seems to have aged better than the other two -- he's been playing better football the past two years than Ben and Eli. Maybe its due to less postseason wear and tear in his career, maybe he's been more driven recently due to lack of Superbowls, who knows.
Of the three, I'd want Eli or Rivers on my team the most. Drama Ben (not to mention the rape) would tire really fast - can you imagine Eli taking himself out of the game for two quarters (YET again) last weekend in Oakland, only to come back in for the final drive and try to play hero ? (and of course they lost on a missed FG)
SD has done a much better job surrounding Rivers with a better defense and obviously Melvin Gordon has been a huge help. They can run the ball. They get after the QB. They are doing things right there. And Rivers is allowed to shine and doesnt really have to carry the team anymore (even though he still does on occasions.)
Rivers is playing much better individual football in his late 30s than his peers. Thats more a testament to him than a knock on the others... though I for one am sick and tired of Ben's hypochondriac bullshit.
I think their defense is peaking at the right time. Derwin James is a stud. Bosa is getting into a rhythm. Ingram is very good too.
They do have holes. Losing Verrett early in the year was a killer. Liguet too. But I noticed as the game went on, they were really getting after Mahomes. And even though Mahomes made some plays early.... when the pocket collapsed, he was getting sacked, hurried, and rushing throws as the game went on.
Their DL will be a force in the playoffs.
True - but in some ways not winning the division, with a first year starting QB, takes a lot of that pressure off.
If they lose up at Seattle which could easily happen and LAC runs the table - they finish 12-4 with losses all to teams with 11+ wins... then they go to Pittsburgh in the wild card... which everyone knows is a very difficult game. They lose - most chalk it up to bad luck of the draw.
Conversely, if they win the division -- and lose at home to whoever in the division round.. then its viewed as yet another choke and the heat does get amped up.
Throw in the team's dismissal of Hunt, one of the best RBs in the game, and you may be right. There is some slack for Reid...