NFT: Yanks talk 12-14

In comment 14218709 mavric said:

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In comment 14218685 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 14218676 mavric said: Quote: - I have to believe a package of Sonny Gray and Clint Frazier could bring in a stellar starting pitcher It's entirely possible that we define "stellar" differently, but I don't see how Gray and Frazier would return anything more than a mid-rotation guy. Sonny Gray is a rock solid pitcher away from Yankee Stadium. Maybe they keep him and only let him pitch in away games. Seen it before where a good player gets the Yankee-Yips when under the bright lights and fold like a well-oiled lawn chair. They'vee talked about a 6-man rotation this year and maybe they could work him when he's away from home field. For whatever reason, he only sucks when he's pitching at the stadium. I don't want to see us lose Frazier because I think he's going to be a stud when he's healthy. He's a valuable commodity. A package of Gray/Frazier should make low budget teams salivate - IMHO

Speaking of. There was a blurb yesterday that Frazier has resumed baseball activities. Hopefully he is out of the woods and the extra time of the offseason will allow him to put the concussion behind him

In comment 14218851 Dunedin81 said:

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and it's no guarantee he is an everyday player in the field when he does come back, at least not immediately. And I love Didi, but he could legitimately command 5/$80 or more next offseason. I think Bogaerts is the only other SS of consequence scheduled to be on the market. There is zero guarantee they give a 30 year old shortstop a 5 year deal. Zero problem with signing Manny and figuring out the rest later.

Sadly, I agree. I still can't believe Didi's bad luck.

He's a heck of a player.

But five years for a 30 year old shortstop is a gamble.

Their starting pitching is still shaky at this point. Cashman said from the start that they would try to deal Gray but if they couldn't find a deal that makes sense they'd keep Gray. At this point it doesn't make sense to trade Gray unless they get a pitcher back. The pitcher doesn't need to be a world beater, but its unlikely they'll even get that. Gray was an ace in Oakland and was decent for us in 2017, even into the post season. The best thing to do is to hang on to him and hope he mans up.

In comment 14218980 Dunedin81 said:

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But five years for a 30 year old shortstop is a gamble.

Yup. Which is why we should have given him a 5 year extension 2 years ago. Instead we'll either let him walk or overpay him.

The Yankees refusal to extend their young players is just stupid and is going to damage the franchise.

In comment 14218902 Dave in PA said:

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It would be stupid to trade him just for the sake of trading him if the return doesn’t make sense. Also, if we’re relying on CC Sabathi to stay healthy all year that’s a foolish gamble in my view.

I don’t think there’s anything to worry about with Gray. He’ll be traded for something or somethings of real value. Don’t expect a Homeric return. Much like making the Happ signing “official”, I don’t think they are operating with their hair on fire because there are 40-man roster implications. No reason to hurry along the moves that create 40-man roster cuts if there are moves in the hopper that may simultaneously create space.

I suspect that the win/lose on Machado is the first domino that determines what follows.

In comment 14218845 Mike from SI said:

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but from what I've heard Machado only wants to play SS. Maybe he changes his mind, idk, but that's what I heard....

Mike that is not asshat info. Manny said he want to play SS and that is why the Orioles moved him there this year. But, money talks and BS walks. He will take the money and play where the Yanks put him.

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In comment 14219004 yatqb said:

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Or he can go to 3rd base....

In comment 14218991 section125 said:

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In comment 14218845 Mike from SI said: Quote: but from what I've heard Machado only wants to play SS. Maybe he changes his mind, idk, but that's what I heard.... Mike that is not asshat info. Manny said he want to play SS and that is why the Orioles moved him there this year. But, money talks and BS walks. He will take the money and play where the Yanks put him.

This, he would rather play SS but he will play whatever position the highest bidder wants him to.

He is done with the Yankees, D O N E done. How could you send him out to the mound again with the slightest confidence that he will be anything but batting practice

If Sevy is still messed up, sure, your ace is in trouble, but after that, most teams would die for CC as a fifth starter. Happ as a 4th? I am not sure where all the fans think they can Gary an all star at each spot....

there is a good chance he pitched lights out against the bottom feeders like Baltimore et al. The guy flat out can't be counted on ever.

If you can get a pair of shoes with holes in them for him take it. Seriously he likely got lucky with road match ups last year drawing some soft teams.But I am all for selling high if you can bamboozle someone

In comment 14219039 Greg from LI said:

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He is done with the Yankees, D O N E done. How could you send him out to the mound again with the slightest confidence that he will be anything but batting practice

At worst he’ll be a long reliever/spot starter. How can you just throw that away ? If anything of value was being offered a deal would have happened by now. Does it make sense just to throw him away just because we’re pissed that he sucked last year ?

a penny with an agent. I think the Yanks did notice a slight downward trend in his arm and stats.

Better to get out a year early then a year late.Not worth the 15 million a year for an aging reliever pitching 7th or 8th inning. You could go bankrupt that way. Probably have a guy in the minors that can handle the one inning for peanuts. Save the bucks for the big guys.

You can find a Robertson many times over. The Machado's not so easily.

In comment 14219060 Ron from Ninerland said:

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In comment 14219039 Greg from LI said: Quote: He is done with the Yankees, D O N E done. How could you send him out to the mound again with the slightest confidence that he will be anything but batting practice At worst he’ll be a long reliever/spot starter. How can you just throw that away ? If anything of value was being offered a deal would have happened by now. Does it make sense just to throw him away just because we’re pissed that he sucked last year ?

He probably the best SP available on the market (short of Kluber) and the least expensive to get. Cash will get something decent for him.

I read an article in The Athletic to the effect that one reason the Yankees liked Sanchez was that he followed the game plan and pitching plan per opponent very well. Apparently, the pitching plans are very driven by analytics. In sum, the FO cares about and measures pitching adherence to plan.

It made me wonder if Grey pitches by his current feel for his pitches and ignores the weaknesses of opponent batters?

The reason I bring that up is that the hard up for pitching Yankees sure seem very clear they are done with the guy...to the point of self harming their own negotiating position.

That Gray will yield the shortstop or second baseman they need. The only scenario I like signing Machado is if we trade Stanton, then you can eventually put Andujar at DH, work with him on his defense at first base and outfield, let him be a DH/utility player that gets 500 - 600 at bats. If they add Machado and keep Stanton, they are really going to regret it big time, and it still ma not bring a single title, what it will do is prevent you from keeping all the future free agents you will want to keep. The organization will then be all screwed up with outsiders having huge contracts and players coming through the system gone, no way to run a railroad. but I don't see Cashman being that big a fool.

How much will Stanton actually cost the Yankees each year in the future?

In comment 14219520 PaulN said:

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That Gray will yield the shortstop or second baseman they need. The only scenario I like signing Machado is if we trade Stanton, then you can eventually put Andujar at DH, work with him on his defense at first base and outfield, let him be a DH/utility player that gets 500 - 600 at bats. If they add Machado and keep Stanton, they are really going to regret it big time, and it still may not bring a single title, what it will do is prevent you from keeping all the future free agents you will want to keep. The organization will then be all screwed up with outsiders having huge contracts and players coming through the system gone, no way to run a railroad. but I don't see Cashman being that big a fool.

So you don't like adding 35 to 40 HRs per season to Stanton's 35-40 HRs per season and a gold glove 3rd baseman, to boot. Adding Machado seriously increases the chances of winning multiple World Series, which is the goal of putting together a team. Teams are always kicking the salary can down the road and the Yanks have time to sort it out.

In comment 14219527 Bill2 said:

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How much will Stanton actually cost the Yankees each year in the future?

Roughly $22/per, which is below market for his bat.

Exactly

Stanton 2018: .266 38 HRs 100 RBIs 102 Runs scored

Machado 2018: .297 37 HRs 107 RBIs 84 Runs scored

Harper 2018: .249 34 HRs 100 RBIs 103 Runs scored

First of all, i would bet that Stanton has an uptick across the board in his stats in 2019. His performance was actually pretty damn good considering he was on a new team, in a new league and playing LF or DH which was new territory. It also must be taken into account that Judge, Sanchez, Hicks and Gregorius missed chunks of time and Stanton (although dealing with some injuries himself) held the fort.

Finally we come to money. Stanton is due to make $25 mil in 2019 and 2020. Harper and Machado will probably be getting 30+ million a season. Looking at the how close the production numbers above are and the real possibility that Stanton could see an improvement means he could be playing for 5-10 mil less a season than the other guys. To make things more interesting, Stanton has a buyout after the 2020 season. If he decides to pass on it, which is probable, the Yanks receive $30 million from the Marlins. That means the rest of his contract will be 7 years at 154 mil or $22 mil per season.

The ends of these mega-contracts are never pretty, but if Stanton stays productive (it will help that he can eventually become a full-time DH in the AL), he could be playing for 8-10 mil less than Machado or Harper while still providing similar production.

on paper, his salary matches his production, if not more, and probably will be so for a few years. It’s the last few years that are worrisome. His presence also limits our roster flexibility, his addition took place when we already had a surplus of DH/OF types. Now Andujar almost has to go, Sanchez has to continue to struggle behind the plate defensively, and Frazier has no role at all.

But, most importantly, did you see him in the playoffs and against good pitching in general? We are comfortably projecting that he will produce better being familiar with the surroundings but I am not so sure he will improve against better pitching. I can’t imagine he will age well being such a guess, mistake hitter.

I won’t gripe too much if we have one of Stanton, Harper, or Machado on the roster. Having two of them, with big deals for Judge on the horizon, is not a good idea in my opinion.

He becomes very valuable in context when there are injuries (as there are every year).

And because he is there at above average production at below average price per production...we don't have to sell all out to add those bats at years or amounts beyond sanity.

Lack of apparent hustle is pretty easy to swallow with stellar defense and a mid-.800s OPS.

In comment 14219578 Jim in Hoboken said:

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on paper, his salary matches his production, if not more, and probably will be so for a few years. It’s the last few years that are worrisome. His presence also limits our roster flexibility, his addition took place when we already had a surplus of DH/OF types. Now Andujar almost has to go, Sanchez has to continue to struggle behind the plate defensively, and Frazier has no role at all. But, most importantly, did you see him in the playoffs and against good pitching in general? We are comfortably projecting that he will produce better being familiar with the surroundings but I am not so sure he will improve against better pitching. I can’t imagine he will age well being such a guess, mistake hitter. I won’t gripe too much if we have one of Stanton, Harper, or Machado on the roster. Having two of them, with big deals for Judge on the horizon, is not a good idea in my opinion.

Horizon? Judge is not a FA until 2023. Why would anyone be worried about this now that's not named Hal or one of his bean counters. ?

We have to trade Stanton for a more expensive less productive player and then trade Judge now before he is less attractive as a trade chip with fewer cost controlled years left.

That way when some of those 2018 draft 17 year old International signings want their 10 year contracts we will have some room under the luxury tax.

Im worried about those new guys because all know the last years of those contracts never work out for the Yankees.

Maybe we should throw them in the Judge trade

received the luxury tax bill from MLB today after spending 240+ million dollars this year... 12 Million dollar tax.

NYY reset the luxury tax % this year, no excuses not to spend at level terms as the Sox.

In comment 14219678 Bill2 said:

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We have to trade Stanton for a more expensive less productive player and then trade Judge now before he is less attractive as a trade chip with fewer cost controlled years left. That way when some of those 2018 draft 17 year old International signings want their 10 year contracts we will have some room under the luxury tax. Im worried about those new guys because all know the last years of those contracts never work out for the Yankees. Maybe we should throw them in the Judge trade

Never saw you with that much sarcasm. But you are right. The Yanks need to plan for something 5 yrs down the road that may not happen.

The hell with it. Trade everyone for prospects now. Then, bring up the entire River Dogs team because they are cost controlled for about 5-8 years.

I did not mean to be sarcastic to other posters.

I was spoofing the unlikely to materialize concerns and trades the boredom of offseason brings us to consider

In comment 14220084 Bill2 said:

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I did not mean to be sarcastic to other posters. I was spoofing the unlikely to materialize concerns and trades the boredom of offseason brings us to consider

Read it as you dressing down some of the folks whose thinking is spending now precludes being able to pay for our own players down the road. And I agree with you. Now is the time to win. The Yanks can reboot whenever they want with their deep pockets.

Just wish they'd get Manny, stop fooling around, and finalize the juggernaut.
Manny gets them a huge bat, strengthens the left side of the infield at either third base or shortstop(temporarily until Didi returns), keeps Torres at 2nd where he is best. Win, win, win all around.

And I think that Machado fills a lot of our needs. Let's hope that his desire to be a Yankee overcomes the price and years that teams like Philly will offer.

In comment 14220221 yatqb said:

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And I think that Machado fills a lot of our needs. Let's hope that his desire to be a Yankee overcomes the price and years that teams like Philly will offer.

yat, money always wins. I would hope for 8 yrs/$270 to be enough, but the Phillies will probably fly with the 10/$350 or the more ridiculous 12/$400.

In comment 14220287 section125 said:

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In comment 14220221 yatqb said: Quote: And I think that Machado fills a lot of our needs. Let's hope that his desire to be a Yankee overcomes the price and years that teams like Philly will offer. yat, money always wins. I would hope for 8 yrs/$270 to be enough, but the Phillies will probably fly with the 10/$350 or the more ridiculous 12/$400.

If Philly were offering that we’d be seeing Machado taking naked selfies standunext to the Rocky statue by now, then going the jig all the way to the bank

Wednesday as per George King III

In comment 14220287 section125 said:

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In comment 14220221 yatqb said: Quote: And I think that Machado fills a lot of our needs. Let's hope that his desire to be a Yankee overcomes the price and years that teams like Philly will offer. yat, money always wins. I would hope for 8 yrs/$270 to be enough, but the Phillies will probably fly with the 10/$350 or the more ridiculous 12/$400.

I could see Philly offering something like 11 years for $360M.

because there is enough depressing football news on the front page.

the bat makes plenty of sense, but NFW a team as analytically minded as the Yankees, that went into the offseason trying to reduce the number of runs scored against it by bolstering the rotation, is going to start Andujar, Voit and Murphy in the same infield. Between them they could be -60 DRS.

like the Yankees are confident on Machado. Shopping Andujar (presumably for a SP).

...

should have noted Rosenthal the one making the claim of Andujar being shopped.

I don't see the urgency to shop Andujar. Unless his offensive production tanks and his defense remains consistently crappy, he'll have trade value at the deadline. And by then, they should know what they can expect this season from Didi. Put Andujar on the left side of the infield along with Machado and go from there.

the story of Luke Voit but you throw an average to above average 1st baseman out there with Andujar and suddenly his 15 error season becomes 10. Bird really was no better before Voit when he played 1st either. It literally felt like any throw that was not right in the mitt led to an error. I would hate to see him traded for a 6th starter only to have the Yankees go into the post season next year and turn to the bullpen every game in the 5th because no matter how good these starters are, the trend now is to go to the bullpen at the first sign of trouble. I don't care how good the starters are, the average length a starter gave in last years post season was 4.6 innings and that included some of the best pitchers in the game.

We still need Andujar.

Like Andujar, there's no particular reason why he can't get better, but he was an out and out butcher over there. Bird is roughly league average, pretty sure-handed but isn't going to make great stabs going right or left.

Andujar is already in Tampa working at it. A lot of his problems involved him double-clutching or eating what were relatively routine GBs. I suspect a lot of his "range limitations" (not recording outs on balls hit so far from him) really just involved him not rushing a throw. Those things can be improved with time, he's a willing learner. That's not a guarantee he gets better, or that he'll be Adrian Beltre with the glove in a year or two, just to say I'd be surprised to see a defensive season anywhere near as bad as the last one.

In comment 14223071 Mike from SI said:

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We still need Andujar.

I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere Cashman ran out the idea that the Yanks could get Machado (or keep Andujar), slide Torres to SS and then get a 2B. His theory was that there are a lot of quality 2B available, but few solid SS available.

The Yanks could also decide to go year-to-year on a 2B too, as they have some middle INF who have enough bat for 2B. Estrada could really use a season at AAA to knock the rust off after an injury filled season- and that glove and bat combo would be very nice at 2B- but it is unlikely that he would be ready mentally and physically to start 2019 in NY.

Something else to consider- if the Yanks decide to trade Andujar, they might not target an established ace type. They could work out a deal where they trade for a young SP on the idea of a cost-controlled bat for a cost-controlled P.

One idea- trade Andujar to Colorado for German Marquez, with some additional pieces on both sides. Remember that Arenado is a FA after 2019- and it is increasingly unclear that the Rockies can afford the deal Arenado wants. This trade would allow the Rockies to trade him and target specific prospects or players to fill in other needs (like 1B, CF, C).

Another idea- trade Andujar to the Phillies for one of their young SP. That would allow the Phillies to add offense for cheap, and then go after Grienke in a trade with the DBacks to fill in the rotation spot.

In comment 14222988 DanMetroMan said:

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should have noted Rosenthal the one making the claim of Andujar being shopped.

He said that a week ago at the meetings. Could very well happen but I don't think he has anything new; just needed filler for his Athletic article.

I'm not going to pay to read the article but the headline itself has a question mark, not a definitive statement:

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Rosenthal: Allure of the 2019-20 free-agent class; Yanks shopping Andújar?; Happ’s confidence; more notes

Parker Bridwell DFAed.