TO our cap experts
If we cut Eli before the roster bonus kicks in we have 6 million in dead money and save about 17 million, is that correct? I think we talked about this enough for that to be true. My questions are:
Can we resign him after that for less if no other team makes an offer he is willing to accept?
If we were going to resign him is it better to restructure rather than cut for 2019 cap purposes?
Would we have to add an additional year to make any restructure worth it?
If we must add another year what would a restructure look like that makes sense for both Manning and NY?
I only propose this because I just don't see a better $12 million dollar fix available on the QB free agent market, and right now there may not be a QB in the draft that is worthy of our pick.
Correct
Yes. We can resign him after that even if other teams do make offers.
Assuming the money is the same, it makes no difference.
I think you can add "voidable" years, basically just move some of the cap hit to the following season.
Ideally they get a straight "pay cut" though, even if it's just $3-4M total. Maybe cut his base to $8M and make it fully gtd. Would save $3.5M against the cap.
Maybe add 1 year and $10M to what he has remaining while converting most of his 2019 base salary to a bonus so that it's split between 2019 and 2020. Then it would be:
2019: Base $1.5M Prorated $11.2M Roster $5M Workout $500k Total: $18.2M ($5M in cap savings)
2020: Base $10M (might need this partially gtd for Eli to agree) Prorated $5M Total: $15M
Not necessarily. Base salaries can be partially or fully guaranteed or guaranteed for injury only.
There are very few players that have the clout to demand a NTC in their contracts. The Mannings are one of them. Why would you think Manning would restructure and waive that clause from a contract?
To answer your question, it depends on the wording of a contract. If for example, a restructure waives his roster bonus, but guarantees his salary, then his salary and remaining signing bonus must be accounted for.
I only propose this because I just don't see a better $12 million dollar fix available on the QB free agent market, and right now there may not be a QB in the draft that is worthy of our pick.
Why would Eli give up the roster bonus and cut his salary by $6M? When looking at pay cut possibilities, you have to ask these questions:
1. Would Eli be happy/ok playing elsewhere? He's got 3(?) daughters and may not want to relocate but I doubt any fans know the answer to this and the Giants FO may not either. But if the answer is no the Giants have a lot more leverage.
2. What would Eli realistically get on the open market? The 39 year old, Josh McCown received a one year deal with $5M base and $5M signing bonus, so that's the likely floor.
With #2 in mind, the only way Eli takes a pay cut to $5M is if he has no desire to play elsewhere since I imagine he could get at least that much.
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but it might be worthy of consideration IF HE takes a pay cut. It seems that if Eli agreed to a paycut to $12 MM( which would include the pro-rated signing bonus that remains on the books, so a salary of $5 mil?) that could give us $11 million more to spend. I would think it would be in Eli's best interest to make this type of deal so that the money could be used to improve the O-line and defense.
I only propose this because I just don't see a better $12 million dollar fix available on the QB free agent market, and right now there may not be a QB in the draft that is worthy of our pick.
Why would Eli give up the roster bonus and cut his salary by $6M? When looking at pay cut possibilities, you have to ask these questions:
1. Would Eli be happy/ok playing elsewhere? He's got 3(?) daughters and may not want to relocate but I doubt any fans know the answer to this and the Giants FO may not either. But if the answer is no the Giants have a lot more leverage.
2. What would Eli realistically get on the open market? The 39 year old, Josh McCown received a one year deal with $5M base and $5M signing bonus, so that's the likely floor.
With #2 in mind, the only way Eli takes a pay cut to $5M is if he has no desire to play elsewhere since I imagine he could get at least that much.
I postulated a scenario a few weeks ago with Gatorade Dunk that used Josh McCown as a floor. The hypothetical involved Eli restructuring and eliminating the roster bonus, but guaranteeing his lower salary. But even with the possible pay-cut scenarios that are suggested, people have to be realistic in what Eli will work for. Anyone who believes he will work for less than $10M in cash earnings need a reality check.
Much to the chagrin of many on BBI, I could see a 1-2 year extension (maybe with an extra "voidable" year) similar to what I posted above. Maybe 2 yrs/$20-25M in new money with 50% gtd. In return, Eli either waives his $5M roster bonus or they just prorate his 2019 base over the length of the extension.
Kind of funny that just a few weeks ago everyone (myself included) was clamoring for KL to get playing time, but now it's far more important to see what Eli has left in the tank.
Much to the chagrin of many on BBI, I could see a 1-2 year extension (maybe with an extra "voidable" year) similar to what I posted above. Maybe 2 yrs/$20-25M in new money with 50% gtd. In return, Eli either waives his $5M roster bonus or they just prorate his 2019 base over the length of the extension.
Not going to happen, neither Eli nor his brother have left a penny on the negotiating table, and I dont blame them.
Im just nervous they'll extend him for $35 mil a season.
In that scenario, no need for new money/years.
Much to the chagrin of many on BBI, I could see a 1-2 year extension (maybe with an extra "voidable" year) similar to what I posted above. Maybe 2 yrs/$20-25M in new money with 50% gtd. In return, Eli either waives his $5M roster bonus or they just prorate his 2019 base over the length of the extension.
Well, I suggested that Eli would be extended 2 years ago as he approached the option years on his contract. People need to realize that the roster bonus is just a contract tool that benefits both the club and Eli. The timing is such that if the Giants opt not to pay the roster bonus than Eli doesn't miss the beginning of FA. These roster bonuses were put in place for the final 2 years of his contract giving the contract a club option on those years. If Eli agrees in a restructure/extension, then expect those roster bonuses to disappear. Any extension will be for a short term. The Giants and Eli are aware of his pending shelf life. There will be no 6 year mega-extension happening in the twilight of his career.
RE: Paycut - The accounting for his signing bonus is never going away. But if you base a paycut on his yearly cash earnings, then you can easily come up with a $5M cut just by eliminating the roster bonus. If you drop to the McCown floor, then you can push the savings to $6M. But at some point, any suggestion for Eli to accept an $6-8M salary is ridiculous.
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Much to the chagrin of many on BBI, I could see a 1-2 year extension (maybe with an extra "voidable" year) similar to what I posted above. Maybe 2 yrs/$20-25M in new money with 50% gtd. In return, Eli either waives his $5M roster bonus or they just prorate his 2019 base over the length of the extension.
Not going to happen, neither Eli nor his brother have left a penny on the negotiating table, and I dont blame them.
Im just nervous they'll extend him for $35 mil a season.
He wouldn't be giving any money back and is taking at best a couple million under market value. If he's not willing to do that, then I hope they either release him or just let him play out his deal.
Also, Peyton's kids were born 2011, the year he missed. I believe at least 2 of Eli's kids are now in elementary so it would be a lot harder to move them. Like I said, I have no idea how much value he places on: a) seeing his kids during the season or b) uprooting his family.
That's just the reality of the situation.
Hopefully everybody is starting to see that and we can avoid the histrionics of last offseason.
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I think best case scenario for a straight pay cut is $3-5M in savings. And if you're Mara, you might look at that and say its not even worth it.
Much to the chagrin of many on BBI, I could see a 1-2 year extension (maybe with an extra "voidable" year) similar to what I posted above. Maybe 2 yrs/$20-25M in new money with 50% gtd. In return, Eli either waives his $5M roster bonus or they just prorate his 2019 base over the length of the extension.
Well, I suggested that Eli would be extended 2 years ago as he approached the option years on his contract. People need to realize that the roster bonus is just a contract tool that benefits both the club and Eli. The timing is such that if the Giants opt not to pay the roster bonus than Eli doesn't miss the beginning of FA. These roster bonuses were put in place for the final 2 years of his contract giving the contract a club option on those years. If Eli agrees in a restructure/extension, then expect those roster bonuses to disappear. Any extension will be for a short term. The Giants and Eli are aware of his pending shelf life. There will be no 6 year mega-extension happening in the twilight of his career.
RE: Paycut - The accounting for his signing bonus is never going away. But if you base a paycut on his yearly cash earnings, then you can easily come up with a $5M cut just by eliminating the roster bonus. If you drop to the McCown floor, then you can push the savings to $6M. But at some point, any suggestion for Eli to accept an $6-8M salary is ridiculous.
I think you and I are the only ones, maybe one or two others, that have said that.
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In comment 14218762 giants#1 said:
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Much to the chagrin of many on BBI, I could see a 1-2 year extension (maybe with an extra "voidable" year) similar to what I posted above. Maybe 2 yrs/$20-25M in new money with 50% gtd. In return, Eli either waives his $5M roster bonus or they just prorate his 2019 base over the length of the extension.
Not going to happen, neither Eli nor his brother have left a penny on the negotiating table, and I dont blame them.
Im just nervous they'll extend him for $35 mil a season.
He wouldn't be giving any money back and is taking at best a couple million under market value. If he's not willing to do that, then I hope they either release him or just let him play out his deal.
Also, Peyton's kids were born 2011, the year he missed. I believe at least 2 of Eli's kids are now in elementary so it would be a lot harder to move them. Like I said, I have no idea how much value he places on: a) seeing his kids during the season or b) uprooting his family.
I hear a rumor they are expecting their fourth
Do people really think Eli has it in him to lead the team to a SB? Does anyone think the current state of the defense can be quickly transformed to the Denver defense of 2012? Where Eli could be a passenger like older bro Peyton? Do we really want to invest more capital to build a team that supports his diminishing skills?
This incremental approach is such a waste. Draft another QB or coach-up Lauletta or trade for another young QB with potential. But let's get into the future as quickly as possible instead of trying to create this delicate, graceful exit.
I am not trying to start a fight... in all honesty. But with as many hikes as we have... I don’t see what the delay is if they don’t see a suitor in this years draft.
Shit if they think Herbert, Haskins, Jones, or lock is the guy and take him. Great. But if draft an edge rusher, RT, FS... wouldn’t that help us getting to a winning track too?
Unfortunately I think you are spot on.
And the organization will lose valuable time not moving forward without him.
That's just the reality of the situation.
Hopefully everybody is starting to see that and we can avoid the histrionics of last offseason.
Tend to agree. I thought for sure he'd be cut a month ago, but I now admit it's pretty certain he'll return. Eli is more of a lack of options than a choice, but many teams have that problem.
I also agree that he's likely to get his $5M roster bonus. As far as an extension, I hope not, but extending him through the 2020 season isn't implausible.
If the Giants don't draft a QB on day one or two, I wonder if they will try and trade for Kyle Sloter from the Vikings. There were rumors they were interested in doing so on draft day IIRC.
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Like it or not, he will be the quarterback next year.
Unfortunately I think you are spot on.
And the organization will lose valuable time not moving forward without him.
Who do we get to replace him and when?
If the Giants don't draft a QB on day one or two, I wonder if they will try and trade for Kyle Sloter from the Vikings. There were rumors they were interested in doing so on draft day IIRC.
Love the tape I've seen on him and he was raw!
Unfortunately I think you are spot on.
And the organization will lose valuable time not moving forward without him.
Who do we get to replace him and when?
I said it earlier - a QB in this draft (e.g Grier/Lock) and/or Lauletta and/or trade for a QB.
Have a stable of new, young QBs.
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another year delay in getting this frachise back on a consistent winning track...
I am not trying to start a fight... in all honesty. But with as many hikes as we have... I don’t see what the delay is if they don’t see a suitor in this years draft.
Shit if they think Herbert, Haskins, Jones, or lock is the guy and take him. Great. But if draft an edge rusher, RT, FS... wouldn’t that help us getting to a winning track too?
I know you don't want to fight me...(just kidding Dep).
Seriously...of course other draft collateral will be a big help but its not even in the same zip code of moving on from Eli.
I am not saying force the next guy in there to be the "franchise QB" if he doesn't measure up. If they like a guy and have the where-with-all to draft or reach him...start going for it because you cannot not try and keep kicking the can down the road.
I am also okay to pick at other positions (non QB) but still remove Eli (non-contract restructuring Eli) because he doesn't provide enough value and hinders our future based on his makeup at this point. Don't bother giving me the stats either as I watch the games and we are 5-8 and a losing team for many years now.
Time to start facing the music at QB...
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Unfortunately I think you are spot on.
And the organization will lose valuable time not moving forward without him.
Who do we get to replace him and when?
I said it earlier - a QB in this draft (e.g Grier/Lock) and/or Lauletta and/or trade for a QB.
Have a stable of new, young QBs.
Lauletta sucks, so that option is off the table.
There’s no guarantee either QB will be available when the Giants are on the clock and I’m not sold either is a franchise QB.
Any QB the Giants trade for or sign in FA is at best a QB hell scenario.
Eli will be the starter in 19 and possibly 20. 20 is the year to draft his replacement.
But cutting him, creates a hole......there is absolutely no way Lauletta will be ready next year, or ever.....
We could be drafting 15-20+, depending on what we do the rest of the way....chances of getting a franchise qb, suddenly become nil....
Tyrod Taylor and Bridgewater are two possible free agent targets....but Taylor was paid 16M this year....the same as Eli....Does anyone think Taylor would be much better than Eli? And Taylor might insist on a multiyear deal.....
If you are in rebuild mode, you have the incentive to cut Eli......if not, then you may as well keep him one, last season....
I think so too.
More and more I think giving Landon Collins a big contract would be a bigger mistake than extending or keeping Eli just one more year. Giants need to get another force on the front seven and improve ballhawking in the secondary. Paying big bucks to a one dimensional safety will be a net negative to managing the cap and defensive roster.
JonC has alluded to it but it’s becoming clear they are working on retooling the roster around the QB first and then slotting in a new QB in next few seasons. I do not think Lauletta will be a serious consideration.
As for his salary, he will extend in the off season and reduce his cap hit.
Thank you. That is all.
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If we cut Eli before the roster bonus kicks in we have 6 million in dead money and save about 17 million, is that correct? I think we talked about this enough for that to be true. My questions are:
Correct
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Can we resign him after that for less if no other team makes an offer he is willing to accept?
Yes. We can resign him after that even if other teams do make offers.
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If we were going to resign him is it better to restructure rather than cut for 2019 cap purposes?
Assuming the money is the same, it makes no difference.
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Would we have to add an additional year to make any restructure worth it?
I think you can add "voidable" years, basically just move some of the cap hit to the following season.
Ideally they get a straight "pay cut" though, even if it's just $3-4M total. Maybe cut his base to $8M and make it fully gtd. Would save $3.5M against the cap.
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If we must add another year what would a restructure look like that makes sense for both Manning and NY?
Maybe add 1 year and $10M to what he has remaining while converting most of his 2019 base salary to a bonus so that it's split between 2019 and 2020. Then it would be:
2019: Base $1.5M Prorated $11.2M Roster $5M Workout $500k Total: $18.2M ($5M in cap savings)
2020: Base $10M (might need this partially gtd for Eli to agree) Prorated $5M Total: $15M