roids on other users that will make it to the hall so on that premise I think he belongs since so many of his peers will too. He was simply so much better than everyone else while a ton of people were also using.
I’m against steroids but if you aren’t going to let him in than you better not vote for others either.
I've never seen a player dominate like he did. He, 100%, belongs in the HoF. I think these writers will punish him by not being a first ballot HoFer but there is no doubting he should be in.
roids on other users that will make it to the hall so on that premise I think he belongs since so many of his peers will too. He was simply so much better than everyone else while a ton of people were also using.
I’m against steroids but if you aren’t going to let him in than you better not vote for others either.
Bingo. How many of Bonds HRs were hit off pitchers taking PEDs who never got caught? Nobody knows for sure, but I’d suspect a lot, based on what we know about baseball of the era.
It won't happen. He's considered the kingpin of the PED era.
I’m not so sure. Selig is an afterthought and as the years go by more and more voters come from Bonds’ era of baseball. I also think from a PR standpoint it could be good for Baseball to let him in. I’d say he’s got a 50/50 shot to get in one day.
Remember this is a group or writers (BBWA) that will not 100% vote any player into the Hall - absolute HoF worthy candidates. Ken Griffey, Tom Seaver - nope. Mariano Rivera, don't hold your breath. Derek Jeter - not a chance.
I cannot believe that anybody tainted with 'roids/HGH will get in under regular voting. Bonds, ARod, McGwire, Clemons et al., will not get in until maybe they get to the old timers panel.
Drink your coffee and read again - said the writers won't vote Rivera and Jeter in with 100% when everyone knows they are absolute HoF players and should get 100% votes.
and I'm starting to think they'll get in, especially since their last year on the ballot will overlap with Ortiz, who's going to get in, and if voters vote for a guy who used PED's, I think it'll be hard for them to continue using that as a reason to leave off two overwhelmingly qualified guys. (Though some will surely rationalize that Ortiz' test was a) unofficial, and b) who knows, could have been a false positive),
At any rate, while I think they have a good chance eventually, they're not getting in this year.
both made it and both were suspected of PEDs/HGH use. Without admitted guilt or proof, they won't keep a worthy candidate out.
Is Edgar Martinez in? Not yet. Until he does, Ortiz should not either.
I think with Baines and other marginal candidates getting in Â
Bonds and the other steroid users should be voted in with two caveats
They should acknowledge their use of steroids , admitting that they cheated ,and they should publicly discourage future generations from using them
This similar to what the Baseball offered Pete Rose as a means to get into the Hall of Fame
There should also be a separate section of the Hall of Fame just for steroid users
Their accomplishments must be noted as anomalies and their stats not part of non- steroid achievements
We’re each considered the top players at their respected position. It’s a completely different scenario than Sammy Sosa. Bonds pre 2000 was already considered a lock for the HOF. Both guys deserve to be in based on their performance pre HGH. Being 1 of many that used during the HGH era should not disqualify their prior performance. MLB did nothing to stop the Sosa/MacGuire HR chase, they needed fans back in the seats and it’s a major reason players used
Not a fan of Barry bonds but he was such a HUGE piece of baseball history over 2 decades. He was most likely singled out due to his combination of race and personality like it or not.
The other guys are more borderline pivirol for baseball history. But Clemson’s, McGuire, and Sosa were also part of the most popular and best players of those ignored decades too.
Like few people have ever dominated anything, ever. Did the steroids help? Assuredly so, but it’s lazy to simply say the steroids made him great. He should be in, everybody knows his story anyway.
trajectory before he got jealous of McGwire and Sosa and decided to cheat himself and the sport.
I wouldn’t vote for any of the cheaters. And was disappointed with the recent induction of other known cheaters. But I’m not surprised momentum may be building or BB.
Look, when Baines got in last week the HoF officially jumped the shark. So whatever prestige that was left was totally wiped away in my view...
Bonds was probably the best position player of his generation Â
trajectory before he got jealous of McGwire and Sosa and decided to cheat himself and the sport.
I've always had some sympathy for Bonds. He was the best then all these guys started juicing to the extreme and he was an after-thought. He said f-it and went for it. A ton of people would do the same in his shoes. Not that it's right but it's understandable in human terms.
Before he allegedly started using, he averaged over 35 HRs per season and was on pace for 600 HRs. He already had multiple MVPs and Gold Gloves. Making him the poster boy for steroids was wrong. He was, at worst, the 2nd best player in baseball (the other being Griffey) when MvGwire and Sosa assaulted the HR record. McGwire was caught with Andro, which is a common masking agent for steroids. The press and league gave him a free pass. Sosa was also allegedly using.
It was all the attention these two received that supposedly prompted Bonds, in all his vanity, to start using. It was more or less an F-U to them, the league, and the press to say, "look what I could do on roids." And you know what? He dominated baseball like nobody ever has before or after his career. He kind of proved his point.
I absolutely do not condone PEDs. But, he was a HOFer without ever using and was just unreal while using. Compare him to other alleged and admitted users from his era. A-Rod may have been using as early as HS, calling his entire career into question. Clemens may have been using since Toronto, calling the entire 2nd half of his career in question (but still a HOFer in my opinion). Papi was not even borderline HOF without steroids. McGwire falls short without PEDs. Same with Sosa. Pettitte was on the bubble, at best, with or without. Ivan Rodriguez was on his way, but probably would have been short. Who else is there worth talking about? Bagwell?
Regardless, I find it hard to keep him out. If Ortiz gets in, they better hand Bonds, A-Rod, and Clemens their plaques immediately, with no vote.
I’ve ever seen play the game, roids or not. Yeah, he was an asshole but, he was an asshole the entire league was afraid of because he was so damn good. He had a season where he was on base 60% of the time for christ sake!
I’m against steroids but if you aren’t going to let him in than you better not vote for others either.
I’m against steroids but if you aren’t going to let him in than you better not vote for others either.
Bingo. How many of Bonds HRs were hit off pitchers taking PEDs who never got caught? Nobody knows for sure, but I’d suspect a lot, based on what we know about baseball of the era.
I’m not so sure. Selig is an afterthought and as the years go by more and more voters come from Bonds’ era of baseball. I also think from a PR standpoint it could be good for Baseball to let him in. I’d say he’s got a 50/50 shot to get in one day.
Will he be?
No.
Remember this is a group or writers (BBWA) that will not 100% vote any player into the Hall - absolute HoF worthy candidates. Ken Griffey, Tom Seaver - nope. Mariano Rivera, don't hold your breath. Derek Jeter - not a chance.
I cannot believe that anybody tainted with 'roids/HGH will get in under regular voting. Bonds, ARod, McGwire, Clemons et al., will not get in until maybe they get to the old timers panel.
Drink your coffee and read again - said the writers won't vote Rivera and Jeter in with 100% when everyone knows they are absolute HoF players and should get 100% votes.
He said get 100% of the votes not that they won't get in.
At any rate, while I think they have a good chance eventually, they're not getting in this year.
Quote:
What?
He said get 100% of the votes not that they won't get in.
Thought he said 100% not getting in, sorry about that.
Is Edgar Martinez in? Not yet. Until he does, Ortiz should not either.
I'm pretty sure you misread whatever you saw - the guy who tracks publicly revealed votes has Mo getting 100% so far.
Either way, neither Piazza or Bagwell or Biggio had the "smoke" that Bonds and Clemens do.
That said, both Bonds and Clemens should 100% be in the hall of fame. It's a joke they're not.
and every year the voting becomes more of an embarrassment to the BBWAA. One of the least competent groups of people on the planet.
Quote:
I saw on twitter one BBWA writer only selecting 3 guys: Bonds, Clemens and I think Schilling.
I'm pretty sure you misread whatever you saw - the guy who tracks publicly revealed votes has Mo getting 100% so far.
You're right it was Mo, not Schilling; the writer is David Lennon of Newsday.
Either way, neither Piazza or Bagwell or Biggio had the "smoke" that Bonds and Clemens do.
That said, both Bonds and Clemens should 100% be in the hall of fame. It's a joke they're not.
and every year the voting becomes more of an embarrassment to the BBWAA. One of the least competent groups of people on the planet.
Right, Bagwell. sorry.
They should acknowledge their use of steroids , admitting that they cheated ,and they should publicly discourage future generations from using them
This similar to what the Baseball offered Pete Rose as a means to get into the Hall of Fame
There should also be a separate section of the Hall of Fame just for steroid users
Their accomplishments must be noted as anomalies and their stats not part of non- steroid achievements
The other guys are more borderline pivirol for baseball history. But Clemson’s, McGuire, and Sosa were also part of the most popular and best players of those ignored decades too.
so basically everyone in the HOF since WWII should have an asterisk.
I wouldn’t vote for any of the cheaters. And was disappointed with the recent induction of other known cheaters. But I’m not surprised momentum may be building or BB.
Look, when Baines got in last week the HoF officially jumped the shark. So whatever prestige that was left was totally wiped away in my view...
I'm done with the sanctimony.
I've always had some sympathy for Bonds. He was the best then all these guys started juicing to the extreme and he was an after-thought. He said f-it and went for it. A ton of people would do the same in his shoes. Not that it's right but it's understandable in human terms.
It was all the attention these two received that supposedly prompted Bonds, in all his vanity, to start using. It was more or less an F-U to them, the league, and the press to say, "look what I could do on roids." And you know what? He dominated baseball like nobody ever has before or after his career. He kind of proved his point.
I absolutely do not condone PEDs. But, he was a HOFer without ever using and was just unreal while using. Compare him to other alleged and admitted users from his era. A-Rod may have been using as early as HS, calling his entire career into question. Clemens may have been using since Toronto, calling the entire 2nd half of his career in question (but still a HOFer in my opinion). Papi was not even borderline HOF without steroids. McGwire falls short without PEDs. Same with Sosa. Pettitte was on the bubble, at best, with or without. Ivan Rodriguez was on his way, but probably would have been short. Who else is there worth talking about? Bagwell?
Regardless, I find it hard to keep him out. If Ortiz gets in, they better hand Bonds, A-Rod, and Clemens their plaques immediately, with no vote.
There are a lot of bridges in Arizona.
I think what you were going for was ocean front property.
Put him in already.