Ideally, Eli comes back next year and retires after 2019. It isn’t that simple, Eli has become a massive cloud over the organization, his presence is limiting the franchise going forward. He is making it difficult to properly evaluate anyone right now.
This isn’t uncommon with older franchise legends at the end of their careers, but it’s time. It’s more than a cap number. He deserves more than to be a placeholder. The Giants should move on, if he still wants to play that is his right (I’d prefer he retire a Giant, but he might not and that’s okay.) But it’s time to draft his successor & sign a place holder. It should be done in April.
Now the question will be, are Herbert/Haskins as strong a prospect as Darnold? That will be the debate.
My guess is the Giants will be bad next season, collect more talent and keep Manning. He'll get his salary in full, and desptite the early season optimism, we'll all know inside it's a shot year.
At some point the Giants will need to acquire a QB with NFL level talent. It doesn't have to be a top 5 pick, but most guys who check a lot of the boxes go in the 30-35.
But no matter what, Shurmur needs to really, really sharpen up his play calling and decision making. The Giants aren't going anywhere with the performance we've seen this year.
has unpopular opinions around here, but he's right a hell of a lot more than he is wrong.
He gets ripped on for having unpopular opinions, but he's a great Giants fan. Just because he doesn't like the direction this franchise is headed doesnt mean he would rather be right than see the giants win.
Unfortunately, John Mara seems to be totally out of touch with reality like a lot of BBI is. This team is further away from competing than 90% of the teams in the NFL.
Yup. Shockey, Plax, letting Steve Smith walk just to make a few.
Shurmur has done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt. He's not a rookie head coach. His resume sucks as a HC.
Bringing him back next year would be wasting a year. I'd bet a lot of money if they bring him back next year he gets fired after the year.
Shurmur is not a good football coach. Fuck keeping him just for the sake of continuity. Most of the players on the roster this year arent worth even keeping around very long. I dont give a rats ass about continuity when the coach sucks and the roster sucks. Get a better staff and get better players, then worry about continuity.
Continuity got McAdoo promoted. How'd that work out?
has unpopular opinions around here, but he's right a hell of a lot more than he is wrong.
He gets ripped on for having unpopular opinions, but he's a great Giants fan. Just because he doesn't like the direction this franchise is headed doesnt mean he would rather be right than see the giants win.
Unfortunately, John Mara seems to be totally out of touch with reality like a lot of BBI is. This team is further away from competing than 90% of the teams in the NFL.
Of course he’s right! Because you agree with him! Both you miserable fucks hated the GM hire, hated the HC hire and hated taking Barkley. So you’ve both been whining, bitching, moaning and complaining ever since. You should both seriously just take a break and stop watching this team. You get all pissy when they win (or disappear completely) and then show up seconds after a loss to tell us all how right you were. You’ve been incredibly quiet the last few weeks. Yet after they lose today, bam, here you are. Instantly. Coincidence?
has unpopular opinions around here, but he's right a hell of a lot more than he is wrong.
He gets ripped on for having unpopular opinions, but he's a great Giants fan. Just because he doesn't like the direction this franchise is headed doesnt mean he would rather be right than see the giants win.
Unfortunately, John Mara seems to be totally out of touch with reality like a lot of BBI is. This team is further away from competing than 90% of the teams in the NFL.
Of course he’s right! Because you agree with him! Both you miserable fucks hated the GM hire, hated the HC hire and hated taking Barkley. So you’ve both been whining, bitching, moaning and complaining ever since. You should both seriously just take a break and stop watching this team. You get all pissy when they win (or disappear completely) and then show up seconds after a loss to tell us all how right you were. You’ve been incredibly quiet the last few weeks. Yet after they lose today, bam, here you are. Instantly. Coincidence?
All of you had your pom poms out after last week. As usual being delusional about the state of this team. The Bears game was fun. But once again against a backup QB. This team sucks. I'm sick of watching this team suck shit. It's been 6 years since they were relevant. You guys seem ok with that. I'm not.
There's no sense in arguing with fools. You guys can keep your pom poms out and act like Eli can still play when they beat backup QB's and suck shit against everyone else.
The trajectory of this team is still going south. Teams that have one premium player at a premium position are about as far away from contending as a team could be. Great, Barkley makes highlight reel plays regularly and is a terrific player. He's still a running back, and until they get better players at far better players at far more important positions this team isnt going to go anywhere no matter what Saquon Barkley does.
The Giants are wasting Saquon Barkley's prime. He's not going to have a decade of prime years. They are at least 2 years away from truly competing. So at best they'll be a contender in Barkley's 3rd year. Awesome.
I don't want to watch any more seasons of bad football.
But I have no control over it.
Of course we have no control over it. But a lot of people on here believe this team is headed in the right direction. I have no idea how anyone watches this team and believes that. They're headed for years of mediocrity at best if they dont find a QB and pass rushers immediately.
I don't want to watch any more seasons of bad football.
But I have no control over it.
Of course we have no control over it. But a lot of people on here believe this team is headed in the right direction. I have no idea how anyone watches this team and believes that. They're headed for years of mediocrity at best if they dont find a QB and pass rushers immediately.
you basically have to give him no choice but to fire people to get him to actually do it.
If we had an owner who wasn't delusional, winning meaningless games would be far more enjoyable. But when you know the owner will somehow believe the team can compete next year and not make any real changes because they beat a couple of backup QB's.
The Giants have 5 wins this year. 2 of the 5 are against 3rd or 4th string QB's. Two of the other 3 are against backup QB's.
This entire operation is rotten. Saquon doesn't change that. No matter how good he is.
Gettleman had a good first draft. Hopefully he has a good second one. And then a third.
That's how we're going to climb out of this.
10 years of bad drafting because the owner was delusional 3-4 years ago and then the fluke of 2016 happened.
That's what should scare the hell out of us as fans. John Mara doesn't seem like he has any clue what he's doing when it comes to making the right changes.
I like Gettlemans draft, but they also were picking #2. Carter and Hill look good but a lot of people could have taken Barkley and Hernandez. Every single person on BBI it seemed wanted Hernandez.
Gettleman's drafts with the Panthers were not very good.
they played a playoff quality team today. The Giant's weaknesses were glaring because of other team's strengths. Good OLine against decent but not great DLine. And, a secondary that wanted no parts of tackling anyone bigger than a wide receiver.
Very good run defending team against improved but still weak OLine. = No run game, and no OBJ to make them game plan against passing game.
had a good draft but he also operated on the belief that this team could contend this year. Which made the Barkley pick a no brainer.
Barkley is absolutely amazing, but a team that is so far away from actually competing should not be taking a running back #2 overall. It's bad business. No matter how good he is.
He's slightly better than I thought he would be, and I still think it was the wrong pick. I'd feel better about the Giants chances of competing going forward if they took Chubb instead of Barkley. I'd have taken a QB, but at the worst i would have taken Chubb.
they played a playoff quality team today. The Giant's weaknesses were glaring because of other team's strengths. Good OLine against decent but not great DLine. And, a secondary that wanted no parts of tackling anyone bigger than a wide receiver.
Very good run defending team against improved but still weak OLine. = No run game, and no OBJ to make them game plan against passing game.
Good post and agree. We played a team with its fairly average yet Starting Qb, good run game and good run defense.
And we realized that we are nowhere close to being a playoff team.
All the coaches. Sa me posts after every loss. This is John Mara’s mess that he created. Not going to be fixed quickly. If you have no patience then find another team.
is he acts like a self righteous prick too often, even though he is correct and sees the organization clearly. Same with BW. We know the talent level isn’t very good and the HC by and large hasn’t inspired us. I don’t need to be banged on the head with a 2 by 4 from them to emphasize it. As a fan base we are frustrated and frankly so are the players and coaches there. Today they were non competitive and hopefully ownership sees why. Better players especially on the lines. An offense line that doesn’t allow a jailbreak on virtually every play would help Shurmur’s playcalling a lot.
All the coaches. Sa me posts after every loss. This is John Mara’s mess that he created. Not going to be fixed quickly. If you have no patience then find another team.
Patience?
Mara's "patience" and wanting continuity and continuing to hire people because they worked for the giants previously is what has them in this mess.
Which always makes me wonder - "what happened during the week that deflated the team?"
It was an "off" day for sure but, was there a reason?
I get it if 1 guy is having a bad day but, how does the malaise spread to the whole team? Was there a reason?
What was it? Just saying the Titans have more talent at this point (which is true) doesn't explain the poor play. That announcer could not stay off the poor tackling - especially the DB's, by the Giants.
without being strong in the trenches. DG understands that and he will improve the talent on both sides. That’s said, it may take another two years for him to be able to do that. We’re not winning in this Division without doing that and we’re not beating teams like Dallas or Philly without more talent in the trenches. It would be nice to be able to take over a game with our running game. Only game this year I remember that happening was against Washington. That’s the formula for keeping Eli around as well. It makes his job a whole lot easier and being that he’s in the back 9, he needs a strong running game and Defense. Look at Peyton in his final few years. He had a strong D and an efficient offense that could run the ball.
Unfortunately, John Mara seems to be totally out of touch with reality like a lot of BBI is. This team is further away from competing than 90% of the teams in the NFL.
I definitely don't think Mara is any great shakes, but he's got a lot of company. I don't think there are 28 teams with better ownership.
This unfortunately can make self assessment even that much more difficult, because so many of the peers the Giants would compare themselves to *also* suck.
I believe he means it when he states various players have several years left in them or haven't lost a step. I believe he genuinely thought a playoff appearance was possible with just a few additions.
RE: RE: Bunch of cry babies. No solutions other than cut the players and fire Â
All the coaches. Sa me posts after every loss. This is John Mara’s mess that he created. Not going to be fixed quickly. If you have no patience then find another team.
Patience?
Mara's "patience" and wanting continuity and continuing to hire people because they worked for the giants previously is what has them in this mess.
at terrible O-line for 7 to 8 years. They had no choice but to invest in the O-line through FA which gave us an average LT and a terrible RG that is no longer on the team. Please tell me that at rookie O-lineman or Darnold would give us anything right now. This ball club is being remade and it's not going to happen this year or next year for the Giants to be playoff contenders. I am just as frustrated as any other fan on this team. It's not fun to watch, but I am not going to blame this on DG. The past Giants' management screwed the franchise through the draft big time. DG knows the trenches are a priority and we are going to see this process develop through the next two draft classes. Fortunately or unfortunately, how you look at it, the Giants record could still be enough to get us our franchise QB this year. If not, a player in the trenches on either side. The team will get better.
now we are saying Reese has nothing to do with this team. As if the last 8-9 draft didnt happen.
Not one quality player on the team drafted in round 3 or later.
His two top-10 picks were legitimate franchise killers.
Not ONE OL he drafted is still on the team.
Drafted a lot of league average players at high positions as well. Cant wait for SS to get a big time extension.... who's with me?
But they were playing better the last five weeks or so. Today was bad again... hopefully it stops. I give up. I just don’t think it was crazy to believe that the giants were tending upward lately. Four of five is a start. Just sounds like many here couldn’t wait to say told you so after a disgusting game today. Same shit whatever... fuck this season.
I agree with everything you guys have posted here. The thread this past week saying Gettleman should be getting credit for this Giant team,IMO,was a joke. We'll probably finish 5-11 which is two games better then last season when the team quit in the middle of the year and we had our best player injured for most of the season. This season there would be a good chance that our record wouldn't be any better then last season if we had to face the teams that we beat with their starting quarterback. I am 100% with Mook about the current roster. Except for a handful of players, no one is worth getting upset about if they are not back next season.
Today's Giant performance was pathetic!
Gettleman/Shurmur - the only way I think a change is made after 1 year is if someone big shakes loose. Shurmur isn’t getting fired after 1 year for another coordinator promotion. If a really big name was available, I’d like to think it would be considered.
But I see some promising things to build on, things I hadn't seen for years, like a run game. And I'm hopeful. It's just going to take time.
A run game is nice, but it's far down the list in todays NFL of the most important pieces to be a contender.
There is not one player on the defense that is really good.
Barkley is terrific. OBJ is terrific. But this team is rotten to its core.
This isn’t uncommon with older franchise legends at the end of their careers, but it’s time. It’s more than a cap number. He deserves more than to be a placeholder. The Giants should move on, if he still wants to play that is his right (I’d prefer he retire a Giant, but he might not and that’s okay.) But it’s time to draft his successor & sign a place holder. It should be done in April.
Now the question will be, are Herbert/Haskins as strong a prospect as Darnold? That will be the debate.
At some point the Giants will need to acquire a QB with NFL level talent. It doesn't have to be a top 5 pick, but most guys who check a lot of the boxes go in the 30-35.
But no matter what, Shurmur needs to really, really sharpen up his play calling and decision making. The Giants aren't going anywhere with the performance we've seen this year.
No Lando and snacks vs that team, not surprised by the results.
He gets ripped on for having unpopular opinions, but he's a great Giants fan. Just because he doesn't like the direction this franchise is headed doesnt mean he would rather be right than see the giants win.
Unfortunately, John Mara seems to be totally out of touch with reality like a lot of BBI is. This team is further away from competing than 90% of the teams in the NFL.
Yup. Shockey, Plax, letting Steve Smith walk just to make a few.
Shurmur has done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt. He's not a rookie head coach. His resume sucks as a HC.
Bringing him back next year would be wasting a year. I'd bet a lot of money if they bring him back next year he gets fired after the year.
Shurmur is not a good football coach. Fuck keeping him just for the sake of continuity. Most of the players on the roster this year arent worth even keeping around very long. I dont give a rats ass about continuity when the coach sucks and the roster sucks. Get a better staff and get better players, then worry about continuity.
Continuity got McAdoo promoted. How'd that work out?
this team seems to be stuck; not really improving in any meaningful way on o or d; i would agree with terps and mook.
they may be improving on the o line and they now have a back. this team has to improve their qb and pass rush /front 7 on d dramatically
He gets ripped on for having unpopular opinions, but he's a great Giants fan. Just because he doesn't like the direction this franchise is headed doesnt mean he would rather be right than see the giants win.
Unfortunately, John Mara seems to be totally out of touch with reality like a lot of BBI is. This team is further away from competing than 90% of the teams in the NFL.
Of course he’s right! Because you agree with him! Both you miserable fucks hated the GM hire, hated the HC hire and hated taking Barkley. So you’ve both been whining, bitching, moaning and complaining ever since. You should both seriously just take a break and stop watching this team. You get all pissy when they win (or disappear completely) and then show up seconds after a loss to tell us all how right you were. You’ve been incredibly quiet the last few weeks. Yet after they lose today, bam, here you are. Instantly. Coincidence?
They'll wind up 5-11 or 6-10 this year, but half of those wins are going to come against backup QB's most likely.
So many people on here are absolutely delusional about the state of this roster. Unfortunately John Mara seems to be just as delusional.
How many more years of awful football do you guys want to watch? Since Hurricane Sandy the Giants have been one of the worst franchises in the league.
2016 was the definition of a fluke.
But I have no control over it.
This is not meaningful progress. we beat dregs and back up qbs.
Quote:
has unpopular opinions around here, but he's right a hell of a lot more than he is wrong.
He gets ripped on for having unpopular opinions, but he's a great Giants fan. Just because he doesn't like the direction this franchise is headed doesnt mean he would rather be right than see the giants win.
Unfortunately, John Mara seems to be totally out of touch with reality like a lot of BBI is. This team is further away from competing than 90% of the teams in the NFL.
Of course he’s right! Because you agree with him! Both you miserable fucks hated the GM hire, hated the HC hire and hated taking Barkley. So you’ve both been whining, bitching, moaning and complaining ever since. You should both seriously just take a break and stop watching this team. You get all pissy when they win (or disappear completely) and then show up seconds after a loss to tell us all how right you were. You’ve been incredibly quiet the last few weeks. Yet after they lose today, bam, here you are. Instantly. Coincidence?
All of you had your pom poms out after last week. As usual being delusional about the state of this team. The Bears game was fun. But once again against a backup QB. This team sucks. I'm sick of watching this team suck shit. It's been 6 years since they were relevant. You guys seem ok with that. I'm not.
There's no sense in arguing with fools. You guys can keep your pom poms out and act like Eli can still play when they beat backup QB's and suck shit against everyone else.
The trajectory of this team is still going south. Teams that have one premium player at a premium position are about as far away from contending as a team could be. Great, Barkley makes highlight reel plays regularly and is a terrific player. He's still a running back, and until they get better players at far better players at far more important positions this team isnt going to go anywhere no matter what Saquon Barkley does.
The Giants are wasting Saquon Barkley's prime. He's not going to have a decade of prime years. They are at least 2 years away from truly competing. So at best they'll be a contender in Barkley's 3rd year. Awesome.
Sorry, Pollyannas, but it's time to wake up already.
But I have no control over it.
Of course we have no control over it. But a lot of people on here believe this team is headed in the right direction. I have no idea how anyone watches this team and believes that. They're headed for years of mediocrity at best if they dont find a QB and pass rushers immediately.
Quote:
I don't want to watch any more seasons of bad football.
But I have no control over it.
Of course we have no control over it. But a lot of people on here believe this team is headed in the right direction. I have no idea how anyone watches this team and believes that. They're headed for years of mediocrity at best if they dont find a QB and pass rushers immediately.
Hope they do.
He totally botched how Eli's benching was handled, and then made another mistake by believing this team could make another run with Eli.
This team keeps wasting years. You guys seem perfectly ok with the only thing we have to look forward to is a bunch of Saquon Barkley highlight reels.
That's how we're going to climb out of this.
If we had an owner who wasn't delusional, winning meaningless games would be far more enjoyable. But when you know the owner will somehow believe the team can compete next year and not make any real changes because they beat a couple of backup QB's.
The Giants have 5 wins this year. 2 of the 5 are against 3rd or 4th string QB's. Two of the other 3 are against backup QB's.
This entire operation is rotten. Saquon doesn't change that. No matter how good he is.
This is not meaningful progress. we beat dregs and back up qbs.
I am going to bump this post for as long as this thread is alive...well put hassan.
That's how we're going to climb out of this.
10 years of bad drafting because the owner was delusional 3-4 years ago and then the fluke of 2016 happened.
That's what should scare the hell out of us as fans. John Mara doesn't seem like he has any clue what he's doing when it comes to making the right changes.
I like Gettlemans draft, but they also were picking #2. Carter and Hill look good but a lot of people could have taken Barkley and Hernandez. Every single person on BBI it seemed wanted Hernandez.
Gettleman's drafts with the Panthers were not very good.
That's how we're going to climb out of this.
Gettleman sucks at his job. You're kidding yourself when you try to lay all of this on Reese.
Welcome to the NFL rookies...
Very good run defending team against improved but still weak OLine. = No run game, and no OBJ to make them game plan against passing game.
Barkley is absolutely amazing, but a team that is so far away from actually competing should not be taking a running back #2 overall. It's bad business. No matter how good he is.
He's slightly better than I thought he would be, and I still think it was the wrong pick. I'd feel better about the Giants chances of competing going forward if they took Chubb instead of Barkley. I'd have taken a QB, but at the worst i would have taken Chubb.
Very good run defending team against improved but still weak OLine. = No run game, and no OBJ to make them game plan against passing game.
Good post and agree. We played a team with its fairly average yet Starting Qb, good run game and good run defense.
And we realized that we are nowhere close to being a playoff team.
Repeat...nowhere close.
The true mark of a good team is one that can win regardless as to whether that team loses ONE player (other than the QB).
Right now, if Barkley is hurt and sits out... this team has zero chance to win even against the weaker teams in the league.
The day this team can run the ball no matter who is behind Eli and can also stop the run consistently... then we may have something.
Thought the big issue on defense was tackling
Bringing back Shurmur would be wasting a year, imo
And I just can't imagine them deciding to let him go. I would be shocked if they did the sensible thing here, too much effort.
Patience?
Mara's "patience" and wanting continuity and continuing to hire people because they worked for the giants previously is what has them in this mess.
Which always makes me wonder - "what happened during the week that deflated the team?"
It was an "off" day for sure but, was there a reason?
I get it if 1 guy is having a bad day but, how does the malaise spread to the whole team? Was there a reason?
What was it? Just saying the Titans have more talent at this point (which is true) doesn't explain the poor play. That announcer could not stay off the poor tackling - especially the DB's, by the Giants.
Unfortunately, John Mara seems to be totally out of touch with reality like a lot of BBI is. This team is further away from competing than 90% of the teams in the NFL.
I definitely don't think Mara is any great shakes, but he's got a lot of company. I don't think there are 28 teams with better ownership.
This unfortunately can make self assessment even that much more difficult, because so many of the peers the Giants would compare themselves to *also* suck.
His draft was immense but it's going to take 2 or 3 like it.
I don't know that you can say free agency was that bad.
The biggest decision of his career so far, Barkley v Darnold, seems reasonable.
Why would you get rid of Gettleman?
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All the coaches. Sa me posts after every loss. This is John Mara’s mess that he created. Not going to be fixed quickly. If you have no patience then find another team.
Patience?
Mara's "patience" and wanting continuity and continuing to hire people because they worked for the giants previously is what has them in this mess.
Continuity always been giants way.
You don’t think they are playing better ball than they were in October ? Or are you just needling some of the fans like you love to do...
Not one quality player on the team drafted in round 3 or later.
His two top-10 picks were legitimate franchise killers.
Not ONE OL he drafted is still on the team.
Drafted a lot of league average players at high positions as well. Cant wait for SS to get a big time extension.... who's with me?
Support D Front 7, stop the run/rush the passer.
Figure out the plan for QB.
That should be our focus on the offseason.
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You don’t think they are playing better ball than they were in October ? Or are you just needling some of the fans like you love to do...
I think this team is garbage, and garbage teams sometimes get wins in a league set up for parity.
I'm not trying to needle. I'm just tired of reading so much bullshit that is in complete contradiction to what is happening in the bigger picture.
Today's Giant performance was pathetic!