In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
Until we have a competent o-line and front 7 on D, then these kind of results are going to happen. There will be times that the individual brilliance of a Saquan or OBJ will force a win, but consistency cant happen without dominance in the trenches. Not sure if that is a 1or 2 year process, but we are a long way away. I dont think it is fair to put it on the QB it the Coach - and no they arent perfect. But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
But I think the Coach and GM get that.
Yup! Exactly
But, David Gettleman is just the man to address that.
here on BBI. Plenty of blame for people to pick on. It will be juicy.
Best part is I doubt we will hear how much the Giants don't need Beckham and that Barkley can win by himself.
But in the end, a complete team loss.
Bad game planning and play calling.
Bad tackling by the entire defense and contain by the DE/OLBs
Not a good day for the oline run blocking.
Shepard with probably his worst day ever as a pro.
Only Fowler and Engram could catch the ball.
Eli with some awful throws (I'm sure the rain didn't help) and one terrible decision on that fumble (that was a game changer 7-0 to 14-0).
And just for fun - a few bad calls by the officials.
Engram's hold was laughed at by Ariens.
OV's penalty for unnecessary roughness is on the refs for allowing the scrum to continue and the oline to push a stopped runner. I'd be angry too - runner stopped and oline starts shoving from behind - players will get hurt.
for a December game in the Northeast in a rainstorm. They are very physical with a hammer at running back and a physical, tough defense. We were up against it with the weather because we need to pass the ball to open up lanes for the rb. The passing game was going to have a tough day with the weather.
You guys got all worked up and your expectations out of whack because we won a couple of games against a backup and a guy sitting on his couch at the beginning of the season. This team still has a lot of improvements to make.
was not the problem today. His second challenge was foolish, but the players simply didn't execute.
A game like this will force management to take a hard look at Eli in the offseason. I don't think there's any other option, but this game showcased all his problems and limitations.
... this is still not a talented enough football team. Not having OBJ hurt today, but even worse, the OL took a step backwardsAside from the need to find the Eli succession plan (and I think he is back for one more year) the biggest needs going forward have to be...
Emil, I agree with your prescription in both threads (dominant player front 7, a RT, a FS, another WR, etc., but I don't know why you keep neglecting to include a C. Barkley is constantly getting bottled up or caught dead at LOS from the middle.
In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
That's exactly right. Reese would build a team from the outside in rather than from the ball outwards. We will be cleaning up that mess for at least two more years.
In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
Until we have a competent o-line and front 7 on D, then these kind of results are going to happen. There will be times that the individual brilliance of a Saquan or OBJ will force a win, but consistency cant happen without dominance in the trenches. Not sure if that is a 1or 2 year process, but we are a long way away. I dont think it is fair to put it on the QB it the Coach - and no they arent perfect. But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
But I think the Coach and GM get that.
Agreed. This game was more about the work in progress OL and a defense devoid of talent. I can't blame Eli that much even though he made a couple of bad plays. They weren't winning today even if he played mistake free
for a December game in the Northeast in a rainstorm. They are very physical with a hammer at running back and a physical, tough defense. We were up against it with the weather because we need to pass the ball to open up lanes for the rb. The passing game was going to have a tough day with the weather.
You guys got all worked up and your expectations out of whack because we won a couple of games against a backup and a guy sitting on his couch at the beginning of the season. This team still has a lot of improvements to make.
the Giants offense looked so fucking putrid today.
You could say our defense caught a break the past several weeks going against second and third string QBs.
But our offense was functioning at a pretty high level against non-depleted defenses, including the Chicago Fucking Bears.
So, how the fuck can the offense play like this today?
At home?
In a game that still meant something?
Total shock and a total disgrace.
What a fucking mess we have on our hands.
Easy
--No OBJ, so all they had to do was put 8 in the box to stuff Saquon and pin their ears back against a mediocre OL when they got us in 3rd and long
--No above average DTs or LBs so they could run at will.
--If Mariota played a good game (he was average at best) it would have been even worse
In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
That's exactly right. Reese would build a team from the outside in rather than from the ball outwards. We will be cleaning up that mess for at least two more years.
This 53 man roster has 17 players from the last GM.
Whats the sense at that point. Being shutout doesnt really make a difference as a loss is a loss. They werent coming back from 3 scores down with 2 minutes left.
RE: Glad Eli showed today why they need to move on
What's the point? I'd rather sign Webb back off the Jets PS and see what he has. I've seen enough of Lauletta's noodle arm.
Webb is on the Jets roster now. They're keeping 3 QBs with Darnold back from his injury because they would have to put Webb back through waivers to put him back on the PS.
That this team lacks talent? Minus one RB and one WR? I hope we all realize that
That they lack talent in a big way, that they were never really in it, and if they had any bit of sense, the team would be looking at this as a rebuilding year.
In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
Until we have a competent o-line and front 7 on D, then these kind of results are going to happen. There will be times that the individual brilliance of a Saquan or OBJ will force a win, but consistency cant happen without dominance in the trenches. Not sure if that is a 1or 2 year process, but we are a long way away. I dont think it is fair to put it on the QB it the Coach - and no they arent perfect. But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
But I think the Coach and GM get that.
Yep.
This roster was built ass backwards for 10 years. It takes time to undo that.
I expect a heavy dose of OL help and front 7 additions this off-season. Cut Vernons bum ass and sign two 3-4 LBs who can tackle and blitz. Draft a pass rusher in round 1 and load up on OL.
In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
That's exactly right. Reese would build a team from the outside in rather than from the ball outwards. We will be cleaning up that mess for at least two more years.
This 53 man roster has 17 players from the last GM.
Excuse-making is what you're doing.
Thats the problem. Reese built a shit roster and most of his picks arent in the league anymore.
In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
That's exactly right. Reese would build a team from the outside in rather than from the ball outwards. We will be cleaning up that mess for at least two more years.
This 53 man roster has 17 players from the last GM.
Excuse-making is what you're doing.
Not sure if it's excuse making, but you aren't exchanging two-thirds of the roster with a high success rate.
They had a good draft. Free agency was disappointing, but that's predicated on money and where a player wants to go.
They need another good draft, and maximize free agency.
... this is still not a talented enough football team. Not having OBJ hurt today, but even worse, the OL took a step backwardsAside from the need to find the Eli succession plan (and I think he is back for one more year) the biggest needs going forward have to be...
Emil, I agree with your prescription in both threads (dominant player front 7, a RT, a FS, another WR, etc., but I don't know why you keep neglecting to include a C. Barkley is constantly getting bottled up or caught dead at LOS from the middle.
Col, you are correct. Add OC to the list. Glaring omission by me.
In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
Until we have a competent o-line and front 7 on D, then these kind of results are going to happen. There will be times that the individual brilliance of a Saquan or OBJ will force a win, but consistency cant happen without dominance in the trenches. Not sure if that is a 1or 2 year process, but we are a long way away. I dont think it is fair to put it on the QB it the Coach - and no they arent perfect. But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
But I think the Coach and GM get that.
Theyve focused on the trenches, however those players have not panned out.......Richburg was a second round draft pick, Pugh a first rounder, Flowers a first rounder. Theyve brought in Jerry, Newhouse, Fluker and Omameh. Our evaluation of Olinemen has to be improved IMO. Our player personnel department has been horrendous in finding Oline and the Scouts have been equally abysmal. The exception may be Herndez this year.
In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
That's exactly right. Reese would build a team from the outside in rather than from the ball outwards. We will be cleaning up that mess for at least two more years.
This 53 man roster has 17 players from the last GM.
Excuse-making is what you're doing.
You cannot find quality that quickly. Just because DG cut a bunch of Reese's players, it does not mean he was able to replace them with solid players. It is starting to happen but it takes a few years. That is my point.
two interceptions in has last 33 games. He sucks in coverage, doesnt make plays.
He is a strong safety and was drafted for his ability to tackle and help stop the run. That is what he does. It was known at that time that his coverage skills are weak.
Stopping the run is more important than the occasional blown coverage.
Eli reminded me of something that was said about Favre
after the 2007 NFC Championship Game, which is that old QBs look really old in bad weather. Ball security was of the essence and Eli committed two dumb ass turnovers in addition to a collection of his patented "Please don't hit me, spin as I pass the ball" throws.
He certainly didn't get much help from Sterling Shepard, who I doubt has played a worse game in his entire life. There were 2 uncalled penalties committed by the defense, but otherwise, Shep dropped or missed everything thrown in his direction and committed a dumb false start. Nate Solder... I wonder how Bill Belichick would react to him being this bad?
I've rarely criticized the defense because I think they severely lack talent, but it was disappointing to see the return of Janoris "no effort" Jenkins on quite a few running plays today. Mauro shit his pants on both TD drives.
The officiating was nauseating. I'm okay with the Giants getting a penalty every other play if they call both teams tightly. Tennessee got away with false starts, illegal contacts, pass interferences... it was ridiculous.
But I think the Coach and GM get that.
Yup! Exactly
But, David Gettleman is just the man to address that.
kind of Pointless ........ha ha ..
** out classed **
Best part is I doubt we will hear how much the Giants don't need Beckham and that Barkley can win by himself.
But in the end, a complete team loss.
Bad game planning and play calling.
Bad tackling by the entire defense and contain by the DE/OLBs
Not a good day for the oline run blocking.
Shepard with probably his worst day ever as a pro.
Only Fowler and Engram could catch the ball.
Eli with some awful throws (I'm sure the rain didn't help) and one terrible decision on that fumble (that was a game changer 7-0 to 14-0).
And just for fun - a few bad calls by the officials.
Engram's hold was laughed at by Ariens.
OV's penalty for unnecessary roughness is on the refs for allowing the scrum to continue and the oline to push a stopped runner. I'd be angry too - runner stopped and oline starts shoving from behind - players will get hurt.
You guys got all worked up and your expectations out of whack because we won a couple of games against a backup and a guy sitting on his couch at the beginning of the season. This team still has a lot of improvements to make.
A game like this will force management to take a hard look at Eli in the offseason. I don't think there's any other option, but this game showcased all his problems and limitations.
That's exactly right. Reese would build a team from the outside in rather than from the ball outwards. We will be cleaning up that mess for at least two more years.
But I think the Coach and GM get that.
Agreed. This game was more about the work in progress OL and a defense devoid of talent. I can't blame Eli that much even though he made a couple of bad plays. They weren't winning today even if he played mistake free
the Giants offense looked so fucking putrid today.
You could say our defense caught a break the past several weeks going against second and third string QBs.
But our offense was functioning at a pretty high level against non-depleted defenses, including the Chicago Fucking Bears.
So, how the fuck can the offense play like this today?
At home?
In a game that still meant something?
Total shock and a total disgrace.
What a fucking mess we have on our hands.
You guys got all worked up and your expectations out of whack because we won a couple of games against a backup and a guy sitting on his couch at the beginning of the season. This team still has a lot of improvements to make.
Solid post. Entirely correct
Just one of those games....you could see from the start.
Because of a lot of bad decisions by Mara and Ticsh. Used to be rocking back in the 80s.
the Giants offense looked so fucking putrid today.
You could say our defense caught a break the past several weeks going against second and third string QBs.
But our offense was functioning at a pretty high level against non-depleted defenses, including the Chicago Fucking Bears.
So, how the fuck can the offense play like this today?
At home?
In a game that still meant something?
Total shock and a total disgrace.
What a fucking mess we have on our hands.
Easy
--No OBJ, so all they had to do was put 8 in the box to stuff Saquon and pin their ears back against a mediocre OL when they got us in 3rd and long
--No above average DTs or LBs so they could run at will.
--If Mariota played a good game (he was average at best) it would have been even worse
the Giants offense looked so fucking putrid today.
You could say our defense caught a break the past several weeks going against second and third string QBs.
But our offense was functioning at a pretty high level against non-depleted defenses, including the Chicago Fucking Bears.
So, how the fuck can the offense play like this today?
At home?
In a game that still meant something?
Total shock and a total disgrace.
What a fucking mess we have on our hands.
Wet weather. Other team clearly controlling the LOS from the get-go. Dropped passes.
A pic of Pat Shurmur during the game:
Quote:
But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
That's exactly right. Reese would build a team from the outside in rather than from the ball outwards. We will be cleaning up that mess for at least two more years.
This 53 man roster has 17 players from the last GM.
Excuse-making is what you're doing.
Whats the sense at that point. Being shutout doesnt really make a difference as a loss is a loss. They werent coming back from 3 scores down with 2 minutes left.
In comment 14221517 Rflairr said:
He over-reached for all of them, too.
All runs designed to go inside the tackles.
Throwing deep on third and short and throwing short on third and long.
Focusing on the pass when you have Saquon Barkley in the game and OBJ deactivated.
Wheels came off Wheeler.
This coach is an idiot. Just like anyone who blames Eli Manning for this outcome.
What's the point? I'd rather sign Webb back off the Jets PS and see what he has. I've seen enough of Lauletta's noodle arm.
All runs designed to go inside the tackles.
Throwing deep on third and short and throwing short on third and long.
Focusing on the pass when you have Saquon Barkley in the game and OBJ deactivated.
Wheels came off Wheeler.
This coach is an idiot. Just like anyone who blames Eli Manning for this outcome.
Agree on all points but ur last. Eli looked like DOG SHYTE today. That is a fact.
HUMILIATED
Quote:
what Tanney can do next week.
What's the point? I'd rather sign Webb back off the Jets PS and see what he has. I've seen enough of Lauletta's noodle arm.
Webb is on the Jets roster now. They're keeping 3 QBs with Darnold back from his injury because they would have to put Webb back through waivers to put him back on the PS.
Quote:
But I doubt it.
That this team lacks talent? Minus one RB and one WR? I hope we all realize that
The same scouts are still in the organization.
But I think the Coach and GM get that.
Yep.
This roster was built ass backwards for 10 years. It takes time to undo that.
I expect a heavy dose of OL help and front 7 additions this off-season. Cut Vernons bum ass and sign two 3-4 LBs who can tackle and blitz. Draft a pass rusher in round 1 and load up on OL.
Quote:
At team with something to play for and a starting QB. Our classes...by the mediocre at best Tennessee Titans.
** out classed **
LOL...I could have QB'd the Titans today and won.
This game was lost in the trenches.
I dont give a shit if he tried. He failed. He wasnt paid to be the GM to try.
Quote:
In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
That's exactly right. Reese would build a team from the outside in rather than from the ball outwards. We will be cleaning up that mess for at least two more years.
This 53 man roster has 17 players from the last GM.
Excuse-making is what you're doing.
Thats the problem. Reese built a shit roster and most of his picks arent in the league anymore.
Idiot logic.
Quote:
In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
That's exactly right. Reese would build a team from the outside in rather than from the ball outwards. We will be cleaning up that mess for at least two more years.
This 53 man roster has 17 players from the last GM.
Excuse-making is what you're doing.
Not sure if it's excuse making, but you aren't exchanging two-thirds of the roster with a high success rate.
They had a good draft. Free agency was disappointing, but that's predicated on money and where a player wants to go.
They need another good draft, and maximize free agency.
SHO'NUFF : 4:09 pm : link : reply
Landon Collins.
His price tag just went up a few ticks.
Like he hasn't missed tackles this season? And even though he didn't play, he still can't cover anyone...
Quote:
... this is still not a talented enough football team. Not having OBJ hurt today, but even worse, the OL took a step backwardsAside from the need to find the Eli succession plan (and I think he is back for one more year) the biggest needs going forward have to be...
Emil, I agree with your prescription in both threads (dominant player front 7, a RT, a FS, another WR, etc., but I don't know why you keep neglecting to include a C. Barkley is constantly getting bottled up or caught dead at LOS from the middle.
Col, you are correct. Add OC to the list. Glaring omission by me.
But I think the Coach and GM get that.
Theyve focused on the trenches, however those players have not panned out.......Richburg was a second round draft pick, Pugh a first rounder, Flowers a first rounder. Theyve brought in Jerry, Newhouse, Fluker and Omameh. Our evaluation of Olinemen has to be improved IMO. Our player personnel department has been horrendous in finding Oline and the Scouts have been equally abysmal. The exception may be Herndez this year.
Quote:
In comment 14221548 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
But it is years of reaching for the flash and not enough focus on the trenches.
That's exactly right. Reese would build a team from the outside in rather than from the ball outwards. We will be cleaning up that mess for at least two more years.
This 53 man roster has 17 players from the last GM.
Excuse-making is what you're doing.
You cannot find quality that quickly. Just because DG cut a bunch of Reese's players, it does not mean he was able to replace them with solid players. It is starting to happen but it takes a few years. That is my point.
SHO'NUFF : 4:09 pm : link : reply
Landon Collins.
His price tag just went up a few ticks.
Like he hasn't missed tackles this season? And even though he didn't play, he still can't cover anyone...
Because, as you witnessed today, he's the only one who can tackle in run support (when he actually does tackle and not just throw his shoulder).
He is a strong safety and was drafted for his ability to tackle and help stop the run. That is what he does. It was known at that time that his coverage skills are weak.
Stopping the run is more important than the occasional blown coverage.
He certainly didn't get much help from Sterling Shepard, who I doubt has played a worse game in his entire life. There were 2 uncalled penalties committed by the defense, but otherwise, Shep dropped or missed everything thrown in his direction and committed a dumb false start. Nate Solder... I wonder how Bill Belichick would react to him being this bad?
I've rarely criticized the defense because I think they severely lack talent, but it was disappointing to see the return of Janoris "no effort" Jenkins on quite a few running plays today. Mauro shit his pants on both TD drives.
The officiating was nauseating. I'm okay with the Giants getting a penalty every other play if they call both teams tightly. Tennessee got away with false starts, illegal contacts, pass interferences... it was ridiculous.