This is one conversation I will never understand. Obviously the Mara (and the tisch) family are wealthy beyond what most of us can even imagine but if you think that they are sitting back tonight laughing and having fun, I'm not sure what to say. Do they really want to hear the shit that's being said about you? No one does
Their entire life is built around the NY Giants. They could have done better lately but, I'm pretty sure losing hurts them a lot.
Just a thought
Real question - do you think anyone in the Mara or Tisch household are happy tonight?
1. Their bank accounts
2. They got to create this mess, I have to live with it
John Mara does care about winning. His problem, however, and it's an enormous problem, is that he's ultra-devoted to the "Giants Way" doctrine. An ancient, old school, IBM way of building a football team.
That is why time and time again he keeps calling on people who have pledged their allegiance to the "Giants Way" to help "fix" the problem. And this is slowly killing this franchise.
John Mara does care about winning. His problem, however, and it's an enormous problem, is that he's ultra-devoted to the "Giants Way" doctrine. An ancient, old school, IBM way of building a football team.
That is why time and time again he keeps calling on people who have pledged their allegiance to the "Giants Way" to help "fix" the problem. And this is slowly killing this franchise.
Lmao you are so whacked it's pure entertainment reading your posts...
Keep it up we need some laughs around here...
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centered around the Giants. The Giants are an annuity gifted from Papa Bob. He'd much rather be chilling in Hollywood making movies and watching Dodgers games.
John Mara does care about winning. His problem, however, and it's an enormous problem, is that he's ultra-devoted to the "Giants Way" doctrine. An ancient, old school, IBM way of building a football team.
That is why time and time again he keeps calling on people who have pledged their allegiance to the "Giants Way" to help "fix" the problem. And this is slowly killing this franchise.
Lmao you are so whacked it's pure entertainment reading your posts...
Keep it up we need some laughs around here...
There was no fresh outside perspective coming in ever at that point.
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Did Chris's horse lose?
Real question - do you think anyone in the Mara or Tisch household are happy tonight?
yes, very happy. Giants losing has little impact on revenue.
bbi does not know better than professionals, but it doesn’t mean we can’t observe and tell obvious faults of the team.
I am not with the group that believes they are just laughing on their way to the bank. This is a second generation family business that John has lived his entire life. You don't just stop caring about winning.
What I do think is he may or may not be making the best well intended decisions. However, you and I will never know because we assume he is making some decisions when we really dont know. We can assume he has input in the hiring of the GM and the Coach. Plus input in something like the first round pick (or his endorsement). Possibly approval for contracts over $x amount. I am sure he weighed in for the Odell contract.
To say he does not care about winning is ridiculous.
Actually, he’s had the same job under different titles since 2003.
How do you explain this years draft then? Just coincidence that Reese is gone?
I really don't buy these conspiracies. I'm not even a Mara defender, I have zero allegiance to them and don't invest anything in their product other than some of my time on Sundays. Zero reason for me to "defend them" other than just using common sense.
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It’s been downhill since.
Actually, he’s had the same job under different titles since 2003.
He was promoted to Senior VP of Player Personnel in 2011. I doubt they just changed his title for shits and giggles.
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It’s been downhill since.
How do you explain this years draft then? Just coincidence that Reese is gone?
I really don't buy these conspiracies. I'm not even a Mara defender, I have zero allegiance to them and don't invest anything in their product other than some of my time on Sundays. Zero reason for me to "defend them" other than just using common sense.
Chris Mara is the Senior VP of PRO personnel. Not sure what that has to do with the draft.
This team for years has done an awful job evaluating their own personnel and free agents.
The Maras and the Tisches should be commended for handing over football operations to football people and then steering clear of football operations. To the extent they make the hires and don't interfere at all, it's unfair to call them out for the poor play on the field. Of course they care about winning. They are one of the more active teams in free agency and their team spends money to compete every single year. We can't complain one bit about that.
You can criticize who they hired, but Gettleman is a football guy through and through. He was very successful in Carolina - it's not as though they hired a guy they knew in the hopes he would become successful - Gettleman was already there. And to go with a guy they know and trust - I don't think it's fair to criticize them for that.
There is some room for the questioning of Chris Mara's role in all this because he is not just ownership but in fact a football guy for the franchise. Judge him by the decisions he's made, not the family he's from.
In the end, if ownership has a fault, it's loyalty. Their loyalty to Eli has cost them two tough years, but in the end I think they believe (and I do too) that loyalty is better for business long-term than is distrust.
We're lucky to root for a class organization that treats is players (and its fans) as well as they do. Don't blame them because we're having some predictably down years at the sunset of a venerable quarterback's career. They want to win as much as we do, if not more. And given some time, we'll be back.
Of course the Giants made some missteps in recent years but I think they're entirely understandable. We had a very talented GM who won 2 superbowls but lost his way. It can take a long while for an organisation to realise this, especially when said GM was hitting on his #1 and #2 picks by and large. Once even that stopped we were by then deep in the mess.
You can look at Chris Mara, and more recently Charles Tisch, and argue there is owner involvement in playing matters. I think that is fair, there probably is, but one can also argue it is a good thing that these guys are working at the coalface because it means the families care and they are experiencing the reality of scouting and roster building. The Mara and Tisch families understand the business, work hard at it and have made it successful. It would be a lot worse to have a Snyder or Jones figure living in ignorant bliss and lobbing occasional spanners from on high. Our owners do not do that.
They do also trust their GMs and let them run the operation, they absolutely get to think independently. I am convinced Gettleman is the right guy to get the ship righted. Obviously you can argue it is a 'safe' pick. It is. He is known inside the organisation and was hugely respected. He did a good job in Carolina also. What is the issue with that?
Final point. It is really easy to bash an NFL team. Every year 20 of the 32 have a terrible season, another 4 at least are considered underachievers. It is incredibly tough to win a conference, let alone a superbowl. If you want to throw rocks there will be a lot to throw rocks at. The real skill is in working out when to back someone who is building towards something.
I think Gettleman is building towards something and he'll turn this into a regular playoff team, my concern is more around the coaching side, but there will be plenty to throw rocks at for a couple of years.
And they use that, not as conjecture, but as facts to discuss how screwed up the franchise is. "We're the Browns!!" is a common refrain.
When you work off of faulty assumptions to make all other leaps of logic, the end result is completely fucked up - and that exactly what we see. To listen to most of these guys talk, Mara pulls the strings and everyone else falls in line. "The Giant way".
Papa was dead on, especially when we get regaled with the fanciful myth of "Jionts Central" continually. The myth that has been created by a poster who has told the board that Daniel Snyder is a good owner.
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In comment 14222587 ajr2456 said:
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It’s been downhill since.
How do you explain this years draft then? Just coincidence that Reese is gone?
I really don't buy these conspiracies. I'm not even a Mara defender, I have zero allegiance to them and don't invest anything in their product other than some of my time on Sundays. Zero reason for me to "defend them" other than just using common sense.
Chris Mara is the Senior VP of PRO personnel. Not sure what that has to do with the draft.
This team for years has done an awful job evaluating their own personnel and free agents.
Right, people are blaming him for the bad Reese drafts.
This is just business, and the business is extremely profitable.
The Maras and the Tisches should be commended for handing over football operations to football people and then steering clear of football operations. To the extent they make the hires and don't interfere at all, it's unfair to call them out for the poor play on the field. Of course they care about winning. They are one of the more active teams in free agency and their team spends money to compete every single year. We can't complain one bit about that.
You can criticize who they hired, but Gettleman is a football guy through and through. He was very successful in Carolina - it's not as though they hired a guy they knew in the hopes he would become successful - Gettleman was already there. And to go with a guy they know and trust - I don't think it's fair to criticize them for that.
There is some room for the questioning of Chris Mara's role in all this because he is not just ownership but in fact a football guy for the franchise. Judge him by the decisions he's made, not the family he's from.
In the end, if ownership has a fault, it's loyalty. Their loyalty to Eli has cost them two tough years, but in the end I think they believe (and I do too) that loyalty is better for business long-term than is distrust.
We're lucky to root for a class organization that treats is players (and its fans) as well as they do. Don't blame them because we're having some predictably down years at the sunset of a venerable quarterback's career. They want to win as much as we do, if not more. And given some time, we'll be back.
+1
(2) the impact of ownership interference has had upon the Giants' W/L record
Having said that, there are some clues to #1... John Mara has made it clear he fully participates in the draft - that he has a voice in every draft selection. It is safe to presume that no significant signing or release happens without his authority. Moreover, the mere fact Chris Mara, an owner, has a full time position in personnel evaluation obviously means he has input in football operations.
It is my understanding that the above involvement is greater than the independence George Young demanded as a condition of his hire in 1978-1979 - at a time when ownership interference was seen as a huge problem for the franchise.
The level of ownership involvement is greater than zero, which is enough for me to be critical... I esp don't like Chris Mara being a full time employee in personnel... I don't ever like a employment position that isn't subject to independent and objective evaluation and subject to termination for under performance. It's just bad business.
As for those defending ownership by referencing the 4 super bowls, the first two were won under George Young, a time we know ownership had agreed to withdraw its overt involvement as a condition of Young's acceptance of the position.
As for the two SB wins this century, it isn't clear to me how much Wellington was still involved, but I get the sense the extent and nature of ownership involvement has increased since Wellington passed on, and I suspect there is really only one SB that I believe current ownership can claim as their own.
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In comment 14222587 ajr2456 said:
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It’s been downhill since.
Actually, he’s had the same job under different titles since 2003.
He was promoted to Senior VP of Player Personnel in 2011. I doubt they just changed his title for shits and giggles.
Same job different titles. He does own the team after all. Aren't the titles a bit meaningless.
Chris Mara is the Senior VP of PRO personnel. Not sure what that has to do with the draft.
Well... our drafts have been horrible for a few years. Then, DG comes in and we have a solid draft minus Lauletta. Interesting...
Last I knew there are other Teams and other Sports to watch and support.
The GIANTS were a terrible Team last year with 3 wins. They have a chance [Small I agree] to win 6 or 7 this year after replacing 75% ?? of the roster.
Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is a Super Bowl Football team.
(2) the impact of ownership interference has had upon the Giants' W/L record
Having said that, there are some clues to #1... John Mara has made it clear he fully participates in the draft - that he has a voice in every draft selection. It is safe to presume that no significant signing or release happens without his authority. Moreover, the mere fact Chris Mara, an owner, has a full time position in personnel evaluation obviously means he has input in football operations.
It is my understanding that the above involvement is greater than the independence George Young demanded as a condition of his hire in 1978-1979 - at a time when ownership interference was seen as a huge problem for the franchise.
The level of ownership involvement is greater than zero, which is enough for me to be critical... I esp don't like Chris Mara being a full time employee in personnel... I don't ever like a employment position that isn't subject to independent and objective evaluation and subject to termination for under performance. It's just bad business.
Exactly. Chris Mara likely won't be fired for lack of performance.
Could Chris Mara get a comparable job in any other NFL organization?
WideRight : 10:32 am : link : reply
Could Chris Mara get a comparable job in any other NFL organization?
He ran a scouting service for almost a decade that had over a dozen NFL teams using the information.
Could Chris Mara get a comparable job in any other NFL organization?
With the incestuous ties to the Steelers, that would be a logical choice.
And let's be honest, rightly or wrongly, there is still this view that the Mara family is football royalty. So I would think John could swing something.
It would be like that scene in Arbitrage when Richard Gere forces Graydon Carter's character to give Gere's son a big job, but in title only...
The.he picked it up and rearranged it to another spot
I think you have it wrong about what upset Manning... it wasn't who, it was "how" and "why"
Asshole McAdoo announced it during a QB meeting without talking to Manning privately first. But the main thing was he told Manning that Manning would be coming out of the game after the first half regardless of the score or state of the game ... that the only reason Manning was starting was to keep his streak alive.
Manning's response was that starting him for the sole purpose of keeping the streak alive was demeaning and made the streak meaningless and that he didn't want to play at all if the purpose of his playing wasn't to try to win the game.
As far as I'm concerned, the entire mess was on McAdoo not going to Manning first to talk to Manning as an adult and find out how Manning would like to handle things. McAdoo had zero class or clue how to handle things.
One poster made a good point that it's hard to build a consistent winner in today's NFL. However, it is also nearly as difficult to be a consistent loser. The Giants have "achieved" the latter. To suggest that no part of that falls at the Mara's feet is simply unreasonable. Case in point, the DG hiring. I continue to read that he's a good football guy and that, to an extent, is true. However, is it so unreasonable that DG selling Mara on the idea Manning had "years" left didn't give him a leg up, if not make him the outright leader for the job. Perhaps there was no "mandate" as some suggest, but is it so unreasonable to assume that a GM showing affinity for the franchise qb didn't at least sway the odds in his favor. Is it also so unreasonable that late 60s GM who was out of football for sometime wouldn't use that as his strategy. I could be wrong, but I don't think DG's phone was "ringing-off-the-hook" so to speak.
I also openly wonder how much time truly went into scouting the 2018 qb class. Did the Giants take token visits, with their decision made, or was their actual consideration given to the three after Mayfield? I don't know that answer, but I know this, the Giants now find themselves without any real solution at the toughest position to fill in the game. Add to that the fact that many draft pundits agree that there likely isn't a qb worth taking where the Giants will be drafting in 2019.
We can debate all day the logistics of the Giants decimation of a franchise. But the fact remains, the Giants have been bad for what -in the NFL - is a long time. I do not see how any reasonable post could suggest that the Giants stay the course and that past decisions have been positively impactful.
By playoffs wins do you mean super bowls?
Quote:
centered around the Giants. The Giants are an annuity gifted from Papa Bob. He'd much rather be chilling in Hollywood making movies and watching Dodgers games.
John Mara does care about winning. His problem, however, and it's an enormous problem, is that he's ultra-devoted to the "Giants Way" doctrine. An ancient, old school, IBM way of building a football team.
That is why time and time again he keeps calling on people who have pledged their allegiance to the "Giants Way" to help "fix" the problem. And this is slowly killing this franchise.
Lmao you are so whacked it's pure entertainment reading your posts...
Keep it up we need some laughs around here...
There is no question that 'bw' is a dumbass. None.
joe48 : 6:34 pm : link : reply
Is that a successful front office?
The Giants have 8 postseason wins in the past 15 years, no?
.
There is no question that 'bw' is a dumbass. None.
I’ll give you the ass part. But dumb is still up in the air.