...I can only come up with one (very) lame excuse for the Giants unexpected performance.
Here it goes:
(1) The Titans owned the clock on the ground and so the offense could never get in a rhythm.
(2) In turn, the Giants offense had too many three-and-outs so the defense never got a blow, which compounded their inability to stop the Titans run game.
(3) It was a vicious cycle that turned ugly very fast.
As for Eli Manning, there are numerous tactical reasons/excuses for his poor performance yesterday, beginning with his receivers failing to hold on to a very wet, slippery ball.
But maybe there's no need to dissect Eli's performances anymore. He is not our future, and this team will not begin a proper re-build until his successor is found.
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Need to get Gallman more touches and see what he can do...
But Eli actually showed some arm talent yesterday in those conditions. He was throwing it down the field pretty well, and moving decently in the pocket to buy time. He had a few awesome throws in the face of pressure yesterday.
I know, INT and fumble. But he made some throws. Doesn't change anything.
Not a good showing but he had plenty of company...
We are clearly in a rebuild and, quite honestly, are better than we were last year, but still well short of where we need to be. Progress has been made but a game like this should bring us back to reality in terms of the task ahead. We are not there yet. I think a good gauge for the team is how it performs the next couple of weeks ---does it shrug off yesterday and compete (even if it loses) or does it fold the tent and "mail it in"?
The road ahead is tricky. Let's say Eli decides that "enough is enough" and retires ----are we going to try to land an experienced interim solution or are we going to draft a QB and, if he doesn't have the moxie / talent of Baker Mayfield, will have to painfully learn on the job and sometimes look like a deer in the headlights. I can't wait to read BBI after that game!
Yesterday was a wake up call and probably a good thing ---as it should refocus the team (and the fans) on the improvements which need to be made. In reading the comments today and the anger of some, it is clear that the last few weeks lulled us into overvaluing the team.
The reality is that the Giants are not as good as we thought after the last few wins but probably not as bad as yesterday's performance. It was a set back, certainly, but the team is a work in progress and games like yesterday happen. Let's see what happens in the next 2 games. Hopefully, they will battle through it and show up.
BBI is surely an emotional roller coaster ---but I'm still hooked.
On offense the o line was exposed again as a joke being dominated in the run game. Basically the Giants received an old school physical ass kicking. Again.
I am angry at myself though, I drank a little of the Kool aid and thought this team might be improving. I would have had no problem yesterday with a hard fought defeat. But, it is clear this team is a pillow soft group and that starts with the HC down. Vrabel had his squad hungry on the road yesterday. Contrast that with Shurmur's crew.
The skill guys were useless as there was drop after drop after drop. They wanted their mittens and hot chocolate too.
But sure, blame Eli if you like, two more weeks and you will not have to suffer him anymore. Mariota really lit it up with his 88 through the air. The Giants passed 40 plus times, Shurmur ball.
Brutal loss yesterday and in my opinion alarming for the future.
Did you really expect him to light up the scoreboard?
mariota having 88 yards does not matter. he did not have to do anything very good gameplan in fact by tennessee. play mistake free run the ball and wait for the inevitable passing errors if you take saquon out.
and we may have to suffer him another season. He cannot help this team be a contender anymore.
Yesterday was exactly hoe the Giants have played all year against well-prepared, quality, focused opponents. I throw that won against the Bears out, not just because of the backup QB, but also because it was a classic "trap" game. That was the fluke, not yesterday.
and we may have to suffer him another season. He cannot help this team be a contender anymore.
And outside Barkley and OBJ - who is helping?
But Eli actually showed some arm talent yesterday in those conditions. He was throwing it down the field pretty well, and moving decently in the pocket to buy time. He had a few awesome throws in the face of pressure yesterday.
I know, INT and fumble. But he made some throws. Doesn't change anything.
Actually, Eli was shockingly bad in his throws yesterday. Yes Shep had 4 drops all of which were killers. But he missed a wide open Engram(one of the few that caught the ball yesterday) on a screen with a blocker and one man to beat.
He missed Barkley on numerous occasions with balls skipped off the turf.
I won't kill him on the INT because the safety made a great diving catch, but Russell Shepard beat his man and was open.
Although it did not matter, the last pass to a wide open Engram in the EZ was three yards short, low and hit the DB in the back.
Terrible wet day, but that was a pretty piss poor display of throwing and an equally piss poor day of receiving.
Note - I am not blaming Eli as this was a total team failure in all aspects (except special teams). Not one part of the rest of the team or coaches did anything to win that game.
I mean he stared down his receiver like a first year QB.
that’s it. this team needs to embrace getting better at a lot of positions - qb included.
Do yourself a favor and see this for what it is —rebuilding with a long way to go, and maybe not even the right folks in the building to do it.
ron -- I was surprised because I thought our offense would have performed better. The defense I'm not sure about, but the offense put up some meaningful points these past 5 weeks or so. Getting shut out and looking so out of their depth was a rude awakening for this BBIer. I never expected such futility. But I guess we must look forward to a better day sometime in the future. Hopefully not the distant future.
On the Giants offense, I’m less forgiving. I love Eli, always will, but his pick and his fumble were both avoidable and key factors in the loss. Eli was a liability yesterday. The rest of the offense was also poor with only Evan Engram standing out as a plus player in the game. Sterling Shepard dropped some big passes and that’s become a bit of a bad habit with him. He isn’t good enough to play in the NFL if he drops a lot of key passes. Barks gets a pass, I guess, because he’s a rookie. But he’s also the number overall pick in the draft and yesterday wasn’t enough from him. The rest? JAGs. Good enough to contribute, maybe, but no big play makers. I’ll say this too, OBJ wasn’t available to play and just like Shep is getting the dropsies, OBJ is becoming injury prone. I’m not killing the guy for being injured but he’s paid to make plays and didn’t suit up yesterday. It’s not easy to win with a QB who turns over the ball, a star wide receiver that doesn’t play and slot receiver that drops key passes.
Now about the head coach, I have real concerns. Yesterday was a playoff game at home and Shurmurs team wasn’t ready in any way, shape or form. What was the game plan? Where was the fight? The team just looked like they weren’t interested in winning. And again Shurmur had some strange calls. Why did he waste his last challenge on an essentially meaningless play? Yeah, it didn’t matter, but in a close game, with a trip to the playoffs on the line, with lousy weather, challenges and time outs are important and valuable but Shurmur seems to have no idea how to mange these critical game elements. Shurmur seems like a guy who had some success as a play designer but he certainly doesn’t seem like a leader of champions and I have serious doubts about his ability to be even an average NFL head coach.
Put it all together and you get exactly what we saw yesterday, a lousy football team going nowhere. Again.
Britt nobody can say you're not loyal.
Arm talent?
Do yourself a favor and see this for what it is —rebuilding with a long way to go, and maybe not even the right folks in the building to do it.
Geez... man isnt even 38 yet, and you have him almost at 40!!! haha Just kidding.
Good post though. Agree with a lot of it.
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and we may have to suffer him another season. He cannot help this team be a contender anymore.
And outside Barkley and OBJ - who is helping?
dep026... every time I read your comments about Eli Manning I can't help but get this feeling that you are not entirely convinced that he's really our past, and not the future.
I "think' I know deep down that you're not blind to that reality, but it almost seems as though your posts are entirely oblivious to this fact of life.
Eli is not the answer any more; he will not be the answer any more; and the Giants will not make a serious step forward until they have in place a new QB.
So, there you have it. The Eli of today, who can win some games with a very strong supporting cast around him. And, then, a new QB (probably not on the current roster) who may well perform worse than Eli in the beginning, but will eventually inject new life and new blood to the QB position!
I assume you prefer the latter.
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In comment 14222620 hassan said:
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and we may have to suffer him another season. He cannot help this team be a contender anymore.
And outside Barkley and OBJ - who is helping?
dep026... every time I read your comments about Eli Manning I can't help but get this feeling that you are not entirely convinced that he's really our past, and not the future.
I "think' I know deep down that you're not blind to that reality, but it almost seems as though your posts are entirely oblivious to this fact of life.
Eli is not the answer any more; he will not be the answer any more; and the Giants will not make a serious step forward until they have in place a new QB.
So, there you have it. The Eli of today, who can win some games with a very strong supporting cast around him. And, then, a new QB (probably not on the current roster) who may well perform worse than Eli in the beginning, but will eventually inject new life and new blood to the QB position!
I assume you prefer the latter.
See, I tend to look at the entire team instead of one position. While Eli is not among the best QBs in the league anymore.... you know what I see...
We dont have starting caliber players at the following positions:
RT - Wheeler is terrible
C - Pulley might be worse
FS - Riley could be the worse the CC Brown
MLB - Goodson is slow to react and cant cover me.
OLB - Carter is a rookie and Martin is a journeyman
DE - Hill is good... the other spot - not so much.
These are 6 positions, premium positions that we start someone who are borderline roster guys. And they start for us. Its not good.
Focusing on replacing ONE guy with a premium position does not make sense when he has proven he can still throw when given time.
You see how the Titans made our OL/DL look soft yesterday? We cant do that to anyone.
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In comment 14222622 dep026 said:
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In comment 14222620 hassan said:
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and we may have to suffer him another season. He cannot help this team be a contender anymore.
And outside Barkley and OBJ - who is helping?
dep026... every time I read your comments about Eli Manning I can't help but get this feeling that you are not entirely convinced that he's really our past, and not the future.
I "think' I know deep down that you're not blind to that reality, but it almost seems as though your posts are entirely oblivious to this fact of life.
Eli is not the answer any more; he will not be the answer any more; and the Giants will not make a serious step forward until they have in place a new QB.
So, there you have it. The Eli of today, who can win some games with a very strong supporting cast around him. And, then, a new QB (probably not on the current roster) who may well perform worse than Eli in the beginning, but will eventually inject new life and new blood to the QB position!
I assume you prefer the latter.
See, I tend to look at the entire team instead of one position. While Eli is not among the best QBs in the league anymore.... you know what I see...
We dont have starting caliber players at the following positions:
RT - Wheeler is terrible
C - Pulley might be worse
FS - Riley could be the worse the CC Brown
MLB - Goodson is slow to react and cant cover me.
OLB - Carter is a rookie and Martin is a journeyman
DE - Hill is good... the other spot - not so much.
These are 6 positions, premium positions that we start someone who are borderline roster guys. And they start for us. Its not good.
Focusing on replacing ONE guy with a premium position does not make sense when he has proven he can still throw when given time.
You see how the Titans made our OL/DL look soft yesterday? We cant do that to anyone.
Pulley was actually out towards the end of the game and Grecco was in.
Conversely, after a win, there aren't such threads from him. Asking yourself why is probably the most meaningful thing to take from it
Yes, it is pathetic and my expectations are so low I would have been happy with a hard fought loss.
Giants are so soft, it was wet snd chilly and they got smacked in the mouth om both sides early and packed it in.
Sad, and again to me a sign the HC doesn't have the goods. It is hard to get a real HC
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In comment 14222620 hassan said:
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and we may have to suffer him another season. He cannot help this team be a contender anymore.
And outside Barkley and OBJ - who is helping?
dep026... every time I read your comments about Eli Manning I can't help but get this feeling that you are not entirely convinced that he's really our past, and not the future.
I "think' I know deep down that you're not blind to that reality, but it almost seems as though your posts are entirely oblivious to this fact of life.
Eli is not the answer any more; he will not be the answer any more; and the Giants will not make a serious step forward until they have in place a new QB.
So, there you have it. The Eli of today, who can win some games with a very strong supporting cast around him. And, then, a new QB (probably not on the current roster) who may well perform worse than Eli in the beginning, but will eventually inject new life and new blood to the QB position!
I assume you prefer the latter.
When the OL can’t block and the receivers can’t catch the ball or get separation the team is gonna lose.
When the defense gives up 215 rushing yards the team is gonna lose.
I know people love to get their rocks off blaming Eli for everything but he didn’t lose the game yesterday.
Conversely, after a win, there aren't such threads from him. Asking yourself why is probably the most meaningful thing to take from it
FMiC -- below is my post after the Bears game. You're really not at your best when you hold tightly on to myths about fellow BBIers.
Observations/Comments from yesterday’s game
M.S. : 10:36 am
(1) I said on another thread that I am so proud of the Giants for pulling this game out in the end. It sure as hell wasn’t pretty, and we almost "snatched defeat from the jaws of victory," but our guys hung in there and played their hearts out!
(2) About OBJ, it first looked like he may have shied away from that on-sides kick, but now I’m not so sure? Perhaps the Bears player was already closer to the ball (if not on it) and OBJ’s only play was to dive at the guy to knock him off the ball.
(3) I am certain that Eli was forcing the ball too many times to OBJ, and Eli really didn’t look that good yesterday. And maybe OBJ was lollygagging it on that ugly INT, but you gotta give it up to these two on that TD pass where Eli was all but dead but still managed to throw OBJ open in the end zone!
(4) And OBJ did have his moments. His option pass TD to Shepard is all the rage, but in overtime he threw two crucial blocks on Saquon Barkley's 29 yard scamper up the right side: first pushing off Kyle Fuller to one side and then bumping off Eddie Jackson to the other. That set up our game-winning FG.
(5) I’m not gonna say we've found all our answers along the offensive line, but there was protection there yesterday for Eli on several passing plays. And while they only opened up one decent seam between the tackles for Saquon Barkley, the left side got several pushes that resulted in 3-5 yard runs. Think back to before the break when the pass rush was on Eli in a heartbeat, and Saquon was getting nailed in the grill as soon as he touched the ball.
(6) We may not love his gap discipline nor ball recognition, but give it up for Alec Ogletree who made two tremendous athletic plays for INTs. And although he was rather quiet yesterday, give an assist to Kerry Wynn for his flying grab propelling Ogletree into the end zone on first series of the game;
(7) Journeyman B.W. Webb has his shortcomings, but compared to Eli Apple he brings so much more to this team. It’s not even close. And even though Robinson made a crazy catch off Webb’s helmet, my sense is that #23 just played his heart out yesterday on each and every play, including that fantastic tackle/forced fumble (by Taylor Gabriel) late in the game and deep in Bears territory;
(8) And Jackrabbit was near the ball all day, denying pass after pass including the very last bomb in overtime. When this guy is on, he plays at an All-Pro level;
(9) Olivier Vernon drives me fucking crazy. Unless there was supposed to be someone on his outside shoulder, this guy crashed down once too often allowing a couple of huge cut-back runs. In the second half he applied some nice pressure, but can OV put together 60 minutes of football?
(10) Crazy stat – Chicago fumbled six times losing one. But on those other five, they were killers and screwed up their down/distance. Someone get Chase Daniels some sticky glue -- that was f-ing pathetic. Oh, and save a little for Curtis Riley;
(11) That crucial interference in the end-zone (against Thomas?) that gave the Bears one last play during regulation time was very IFFY. It looked to me like the Chicago Bear receiver (Robinson?) jumped and turned into Thomas thus creating incidental contact that metamorphosed into pass interference.
(12) How close was Landon Collings from batting down that end-of-regulation scoring pass that sent the game into OT? Whoa, that was close.
(13) Maybe Head Coach Nagy was just a little too cute calling a time out at the very end of first half. That bit him in the ass in a very big way and gave the Giants a lot of momentum going into the locker room. Hats off to Barkley's Barry Sanderseque run and Rosas' 57 yard FG;
(14) 3:20 left in the game and the Giants are up by seven, and they have the ball third and 8 at the Bears 30. Definitely in FG range and three more points there makes it a two-score game. So, who the fuck called that pass play with Eli getting sacked, forcing the Giants to punt? Did Shurmur? How about just running the fucking ball up the middle to ensure a straight-away kick.
(15) Someone must have gotten into the ear hole of Tomlinson and B.J. Hill because the Bears couldn't run for shit in the second half. And Mario Edwards was quite active out there… sometimes too active, but his effort was eye-opening.
(16) Been watching the Pro game for over half a century and I’ve never seen a double volley ball pass to keep a punt out of the endzone -- from Russell Shepard to Antonio Hamilton to the ancient wonder Zak DeOssie who downed the ball at the two. I think Shepard was about one-billionth of an inch from his toe touching the goal line.
(17) If you're an impartial football fan, yesterday's game was a highly entertaining one. For Giants fans, way-way too much agita. But maybe there was something else as well... something intangible about our team. It's hardly a finished product. And it's being led by a QB whose time (sadly) has come and gone, but our Giants played every down with passion and left it all out on the field. This team has not quit on their Head Coach or on themselves. And maybe that counts for something down the road.
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In comment 14222622 dep026 said:
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In comment 14222620 hassan said:
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and we may have to suffer him another season. He cannot help this team be a contender anymore.
And outside Barkley and OBJ - who is helping?
dep026... every time I read your comments about Eli Manning I can't help but get this feeling that you are not entirely convinced that he's really our past, and not the future.
I "think' I know deep down that you're not blind to that reality, but it almost seems as though your posts are entirely oblivious to this fact of life.
Eli is not the answer any more; he will not be the answer any more; and the Giants will not make a serious step forward until they have in place a new QB.
So, there you have it. The Eli of today, who can win some games with a very strong supporting cast around him. And, then, a new QB (probably not on the current roster) who may well perform worse than Eli in the beginning, but will eventually inject new life and new blood to the QB position!
I assume you prefer the latter.
See, I tend to look at the entire team instead of one position. While Eli is not among the best QBs in the league anymore.... you know what I see...
We dont have starting caliber players at the following positions:
RT - Wheeler is terrible
C - Pulley might be worse
FS - Riley could be the worse the CC Brown
MLB - Goodson is slow to react and cant cover me.
OLB - Carter is a rookie and Martin is a journeyman
DE - Hill is good... the other spot - not so much.
These are 6 positions, premium positions that we start someone who are borderline roster guys. And they start for us. Its not good.
Focusing on replacing ONE guy with a premium position does not make sense when he has proven he can still throw when given time.
You see how the Titans made our OL/DL look soft yesterday? We cant do that to anyone.
dep026... everyone on BBI would agree for the most part with all of the positions you list. But I think you may be a step behind many BBIers in failing to realize what a young, new QB can do in terms of injecting new energy and optimism to an entire team! That's why we need to replace Eli ASAP. We need youth and a new spark at far and away the most important team position!
This...
Has he really been great this year? His 3 best games came against teams decimated with injury who had backup or 3rd string QBs starting.
We need spark and energy?
No, we need talent and depth.
In those 3 games he had 8 TDs and 0 INTs. In the other 11 games he's played he has 10 TDs and 9 INTs. I don't even want to count the fumbles. If I had to guess I'd guess that in the other 11 games he has more turnovers then he does TDs.
How can anybody possibly think Eli is good enough to win games?
Although, I thought the same thing last year and was wrong, but I believe it makes more cap sense this time. Then everyone will have that spark with a shiny new QB.
Will it make things better? Maybe, but this team has many issues and frankly QB is far down the list in my opinion.
They needed to run, but the awful Oline that we knew was awful was awful yesterday .
On the other side of the ball, their line blew holes open, and our awful Dline did not get any pressure when they needed it.
And a million penalties contributed.
Terrible last place football team is terrible. News at 11.
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that's Eli to a tee. There's no middle ground with him, he's either great or awful. In the past, the great has outweighed the awful... the tables have turned.
Has he really been great this year? His 3 best games came against teams decimated with injury who had backup or 3rd string QBs starting.
I don’t think he has thrown the ball well this year at all. And his decision making isn’t great either and he’s (as usual) very turnover prone. He’s less than a month away from turning 38. He’s cooked. That being said, I fully expect him back next season.
How can anybody possibly think Eli is good enough to win games?
How can anyone expect any QB to win with our defense/OLine?
Two sides to every coin. Eli looked good in these wins because the whole team contributed. Expecting a QB to win games by himself is just foolish.
In those 3 games he had 8 TDs and 0 INTs. In the other 11 games he's played he has 10 TDs and 9 INTs. I don't even want to count the fumbles. If I had to guess I'd guess that in the other 11 games he has more turnovers then he does TDs.
How can anybody possibly think Eli is good enough to win games?
Soon you have your new QB.
Eli lit up the playoff bound and perhaps AFC devotee Texans. Eli led two fourth quarter TD drives in order to lose to Carolina. Eli did have the team come down and tie the Eagle game before the D shit the bed.
This is in addition to what you named. He is old, the team keeps losing so it is hard to defnend. But this idea that a younger or more mobile QB will solve this team's problems makes little sense to me.
Sure, it is time to move on, and again I think you only have two suffer two more Eli starts, but the idea he is toast I think is not true and even now he is not the main reason this team sucks.
I don’t think he has thrown the ball well this year at all. And his decision making isn’t great either and he’s (as usual) very turnover prone. He’s less than a month away from turning 38. He’s cooked. That being said, I fully expect him back next season.
Eli is 11th in the NFL in INT rate - so that dismisses your theory he is very turnover prone this year. Facts, lets stick with them please.
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I don’t think he has thrown the ball well this year at all. And his decision making isn’t great either and he’s (as usual) very turnover prone. He’s less than a month away from turning 38. He’s cooked. That being said, I fully expect him back next season.
Eli is 11th in the NFL in INT rate - so that dismisses your theory he is very turnover prone this year. Facts, lets stick with them please.
You breathe on him and he loses the ball. It’s more than just ints.