Responded to Shurmur not mentioning Eli by name in post game press conference in regards to what was wrong with the offense yesterday. Said the coach is walking around the real issue of what's wrong with the team because his predecessor didn't fare too well when he tried to address it.
Quote:
Ralph Vacchiano
Verified account
@RVacchianoSNY
2m2 minutes ago
More
Does Pat Shurmur want Eli Manning back next season? Yeah. I want all our players to be back. I believe experience matters.
Does he still believe Manning has years remaining as an NFL starter? Yeah, I do.
This franchise is fucked.
Quote:
Ralph Vacchiano
Verified account
@RVacchianoSNY
2m2 minutes ago
More
Does Pat Shurmur want Eli Manning back next season? Yeah. I want all our players to be back. I believe experience matters.
Does he still believe Manning has years remaining as an NFL starter? Yeah, I do.
I wonder if Shurmur was reading that from a 3X5 index card or he memorized what he heard in Mara's Monday morning staff meeting?
Fix the roster.
do you think they can with a different QB and the same roster?
Simmons absolutely hates Eli and the Giants. Especially Eli. He is still butt sore from the Giants (mostly Eli) for betting them in the first SB and denying Simmons from writing that Pats undefeated season book.
Maybe it would have made him a lot of money? Who knows...
Quote:
In all seriousness, do you really think this team can win a SB with Eli at this stage?
do you think they can with a different QB and the same roster?
They'll never know until they try. You can use that reason until Eli is 60, if you wanted.
I wouldnt have been opposed to it.
Then I saw Lauletta play.
Quote:
In comment 14223394 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In all seriousness, do you really think this team can win a SB with Eli at this stage?
do you think they can with a different QB and the same roster?
They'll never know until they try. You can use that reason until Eli is 60, if you wanted.
lol.... really?
Eli didn't carry the team, and couldn't generate big drives and he had bad turnovers. But pinning this on him and not our offensive and defensive lines misses the mark completely.
Shep stunk, some passes were dropped, and they couldn't run the ball worth a damn. That being said, it was still a ball security game and Eli made two back-breaking turnovers. For all of Derrick Henry's rushing yards, it was a one score game until Eli's fumble. Eli made some good passes yesterday. He also almost threw a pick by forcing the ball to Barkley in the flat trying to avoid a sack. He threw another short pass to Barkley while he was triple-covered. He threw too many of his patented spin as he throws to avoid hard contact passes that are often disasters.
I can't defend him. I thought he was pretty bad yesterday even taking Shepard's horrendous game into account.
Quote:
In all seriousness, do you really think this team can win a SB with Eli at this stage?
do you think they can with a different QB and the same roster?
I don't know. But I know with much more confidence we can't with Eli.
So with that conclusion, I think logic dictates you move on to the next generation and begin that process.
Quote:
In comment 14223406 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14223394 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In all seriousness, do you really think this team can win a SB with Eli at this stage?
do you think they can with a different QB and the same roster?
They'll never know until they try. You can use that reason until Eli is 60, if you wanted.
lol.... really?
lol...really.
BBI at its finest. If either of you think this is a QB change away from being a SB contending team, I just have no words.
And do I think Eli can win a SB? Absolutely. But not on this team. Aaron Rodgers couldnt either.
Dont forget IAEF.
BBI at its finest. If either of you think this is a QB change away from being a SB contending team, I just have no words.
And do I think Eli can win a SB? Absolutely. But not on this team. Aaron Rodgers couldnt either.
there seems to be an underlying premise here; let me know if it captures what you think -- Eli shouldn't be replaced until someone can show you evidence that he's the only thing preventing them from winning?
BBI at its finest. If either of you think this is a QB change away from being a SB contending team, I just have no words.
And do I think Eli can win a SB? Absolutely. But not on this team. Aaron Rodgers couldnt either.
I did answer your question - assuming I am being lumped in as one of Eli's biggest critics.
there seems to be an underlying premise here; let me know if it captures what you think -- Eli shouldn't be replaced until someone can show you evidence that he's the only thing preventing them from winning?
No not at all. What gets lost in translation is simple.
This is my opinion, so you can refer to me and back me up if it happens....
If the Giants take either Haskins/herbert/Jones or whoeever with their first overall pick in this upcoming draft... I would fully support it and hope for the best. Because that means they researched, studies, and did due dilligence on the pick. No qualms whatsoever.
Now just from my opinion, I dont think any of these guys are ready to be that guy. I could be wrong. I just dont see it. I was a fan of Rosen and Darnold last year being a selection. I dont see it with these guys.
I jsut think there are a shit ton of posters who are in the category of: "We need to take a QB no matter what and get rid of Eli." That makes very little sense to me and how often it is expressed is just surprising to me.
Quote:
refused to answer a simple question. Shocking how they are two of Eli's biggest critics.
BBI at its finest. If either of you think this is a QB change away from being a SB contending team, I just have no words.
And do I think Eli can win a SB? Absolutely. But not on this team. Aaron Rodgers couldnt either.
I did answer your question - assuming I am being lumped in as one of Eli's biggest critics.
saying "I dont know" is the type of response I get from my wife when I ask her a question.
Quote:
out in full force! Always fun debating Eli week after week, always littered with so much rational thought.
Dont forget IAEF.
Cmon, EDT is sooooo much better and catchier than IAEF.
Quote:
In comment 14223460 Keith said:
Quote:
out in full force! Always fun debating Eli week after week, always littered with so much rational thought.
Dont forget IAEF.
Cmon, EDT is sooooo much better and catchier than IAEF.
People may confuse yours for EricJ Does Trannys.
I did answer your question - assuming I am being lumped in as one of Eli's biggest critics.
saying "I dont know" is the type of response I get from my wife when I ask her a question.
Well, the question is impossible to answer definitively right now. But that's why we need to enter the process to find out.
We've seen Eli's best, and circumstances where he shined, and it's a much clearer answer and conclusion that we'll never be able to create that situation for Eli again. It's biology - his age - and the roster/cap - we have too many holes and needs.
Quote:
I did answer your question - assuming I am being lumped in as one of Eli's biggest critics.
saying "I dont know" is the type of response I get from my wife when I ask her a question.
Well, the question is impossible to answer definitively right now. But that's why we need to enter the process to find out.
It was the same question as yours. I could Eli contending for a SB if he were say on the Bears or the Saints or the Steelers, Chargers, etc....
He wouldnt be the star on any of those teams but he could perform with good defenses and/or OL. All those teams have pretty explosive players on both sides.
He cant win a SB with THIS team. And guess what.... neither could the QBs of those teams - including Mr. Brees and Mr. Rivers.
Doesn't matter. Either way, time to move on.
You didnt hear me praise the talent of this team in the last month.
Quote:
suddenly isn't there anymore.
You didnt hear me praise the talent of this team in the last month.
Maybe not you, but there were definitely people out there that were. Now the roster is completely devoid of talent again to those folks.
Quote:
In comment 14223520 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
suddenly isn't there anymore.
You didnt hear me praise the talent of this team in the last month.
Maybe not you, but there were definitely people out there that were. Now the roster is completely devoid of talent again to those folks.
I didnt say that either. We have a great start with SB/OBJ. Hernandez look like to be a 10 year starter. Solder has improved. EE can be a functioning member, but this seems like a wasted year for him.
Thats why I keep stressing keep building through the draft. Lets get a RT. Lets get a new center. If we find those two position in the draft, and leave the QB position for 2020 - its still a good thing. Keep building.
It was the same question as yours. I could Eli contending for a SB if he were say on the Bears or the Saints or the Steelers, Chargers, etc....
He wouldnt be the star on any of those teams but he could perform with good defenses and/or OL. All those teams have pretty explosive players on both sides.
He cant win a SB with THIS team. And guess what.... neither could the QBs of those teams - including Mr. Brees and Mr. Rivers.
You see, this is where you get on thin ice, and into dangerous territory.
With a straight face, you suggest Eli is currently on the same level as Brees, Roeth, and Rivers. And that is simply twisted thinking.
Quote:
It was the same question as yours. I could Eli contending for a SB if he were say on the Bears or the Saints or the Steelers, Chargers, etc....
He wouldnt be the star on any of those teams but he could perform with good defenses and/or OL. All those teams have pretty explosive players on both sides.
He cant win a SB with THIS team. And guess what.... neither could the QBs of those teams - including Mr. Brees and Mr. Rivers.
You see, this is where you get on thin ice, and into dangerous territory.
With a straight face, you suggest Eli is currently on the same level as Brees, Roeth, and Rivers. And that is simply twisted thinking.
Did I say that? You do realize that Ben hasnt been all that great this year, right?
What I am saying is I believe Eli could take those teams if he were on them into the playoffs. From there, he would have a chance.
Did I say that? You do realize that Ben hasnt been all that great this year, right?
What I am saying is I believe Eli could take those teams if he were on them into the playoffs. From there, he would have a chance.
You are implying that. Yes, I have seen Roeth play. He's 4th in the NFL in total QBR. He's had some blunders - Denver, for example - but he's still making plays with some tremendous improvisation.
Quote:
Did I say that? You do realize that Ben hasnt been all that great this year, right?
What I am saying is I believe Eli could take those teams if he were on them into the playoffs. From there, he would have a chance.
You are implying that. Yes, I have seen Roeth play. He's 4th in the NFL in total QBR. He's had some blunders - Denver, for example - but he's still making plays with some tremendous improvisation.
QBR isnt a stat people should follow as much as they do. Very subjective. And mind you even during Eli's best years and great games... I never reference it either.
Quote:
there seems to be an underlying premise here; let me know if it captures what you think -- Eli shouldn't be replaced until someone can show you evidence that he's the only thing preventing them from winning?
No not at all. What gets lost in translation is simple.
This is my opinion, so you can refer to me and back me up if it happens....
If the Giants take either Haskins/herbert/Jones or whoeever with their first overall pick in this upcoming draft... I would fully support it and hope for the best. Because that means they researched, studies, and did due dilligence on the pick. No qualms whatsoever.
Now just from my opinion, I dont think any of these guys are ready to be that guy. I could be wrong. I just dont see it. I was a fan of Rosen and Darnold last year being a selection. I dont see it with these guys.
I jsut think there are a shit ton of posters who are in the category of: "We need to take a QB no matter what and get rid of Eli." That makes very little sense to me and how often it is expressed is just surprising to me.
When things aren't going right, people's first reaction is change.
What did George Young say, the backup QB is the team's most popular player??
If that's not the case, it just doesn't make sense to get rid of Eli in any other scenario if looking at it from a purely asset management viewpoint in the interests of rebuilding. If trying to improve the team, signing any QB that could potentially be an upgrade to Eli would most likely cost more than he does outright, and definitely when taking into account the dead money owed Eli. Trading for a QB likewise would cost several draft picks. I don't believe there is a QB available for trade that is an improvement over Manning, and if there were, the cost in draft picks would be prohibitive. The picks and/or cap money that either move would require would take up valuable money that could be spent on acquiring free agents or young, cost controlled players that could actually help the team in the future instead of on a stop gap QB.
The only scenarios I see where cutting Eli makes sense is if the Giants believe in one of the incoming QBs (unlikely) or to completely surrender next year and cut Eli in favor of Lauletta with the intention of going all in on a QB in 2020. However, given the tenor of comments of the cut Eli at all costs crowd, that doesn't seem to be a viable solution to them even though it may make the most sense in terms of rebuilding the team.
Yeah, I mean, Gettleman is an experienced football guy. Now was his sell of Eli to the fans a bad idea? Certainly, considering how this year came out.
If Gettleman thought the heir apparent was in the draft - while also considering Barkley was on the table for them - he would have done it.
Gettleman, if anything, has proven that he doesn't play favorites and always puts the franchise ahead of the individual.
It's only fair he's given some time to sort this thing out. He's been on the job for almost a year now.
Quote:
if you think that Gettleman and Shurmur used a single game to evaluate their plans moving forward I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, I mean, Gettleman is an experienced football guy. Now was his sell of Eli to the fans a bad idea? Certainly, considering how this year came out.
If Gettleman thought the heir apparent was in the draft - while also considering Barkley was on the table for them - he would have done it.
Gettleman, if anything, has proven that he doesn't play favorites and always puts the franchise ahead of the individual.
It's only fair he's given some time to sort this thing out. He's been on the job for almost a year now.
And by sell I mean referencing that one game, which probably wasn't the best idea.
DG probably believed his OL would be much better this year, resulting in better QB play. It took half a year to get things settled in.
Verified account
@RVacchianoSNY
Following Following @RVacchianoSNY
More
Deal with it, Giants fans: Eli Manning is their best and most likely option to be the starting QB in 2019
Here's why, and why all the other options don't come close:
Why Eli Manning is the best option the Giants have at QB next year - ( New Window )
Quote:
Ralph Vacchiano
Verified account
@RVacchianoSNY
Following Following @RVacchianoSNY
More
Deal with it, Giants fans: Eli Manning is their best and most likely option to be the starting QB in 2019
Here's why, and why all the other options don't come close:
Why Eli Manning is the best option the Giants have at QB next year - ( New Window )
8-8, no playoffs, no top 10 draft pick. and the Eli 2020 campaign will still be flying the flag at full mast.
"I don't want this to happen. I can just see all of the signs and the logic. Get ready, it's going to happen."
The 2004 Giants had some balls, Accorsi/Coughlin realized it was time to move on from Collins despite the 2002 team playing well. They could have run it back and drafted Fitzgerald - thank god they didnt.
Its time.
He was born on Long island wound up in Cincinnati and no one in the NY metro area could cares less about him. He's a forgotten player, lost his only chance at a ring and didn't make enough money to not have to get up at 4 am to do a radio show.
Eli manipulated the NFL system to get to NY made a 1/4 of a billion dollars and won 2 Super Bowls. Eli will be a ROH Giants and NYC sports legend for the rest of his life.
F**k you Boomer.
Quote:
Any of those other blame-worthy targets pushing 38 years old and occupying $23MM of cap space?
Are you seeing the pattern Eli apologists?????/
I see a pattern. One you have been riding since BBWC.
Get rid of the QB and all will be well!!!!
Eli's cap hit has NOTHING to do with the diluted talent on this team. If you depend on free agency to win games - you will never win.
I remember when the Skins won the offseason with all their Free agents. Meant shit regular season.
This is the second time you've tried to call upon your memory of BBWC and failed. I was never a QB proponent on BBWC - even in 2004. The only time I've been vocally in favor of replacing the QB has been the past couple of years when I could see that Eli is very obviously in decline.
There are no absolutes in sports, Eli is not the sole reason for this crappy season but hes more of a problem than answer at this point. At his age, at his salary, whats your end game? Suck with him next year and sign him to another deal after that because we dont have a guaranteed first ballot HOF on the roster?
We suck this year and have mostly been pathetic for years. Who says we should change one thing at a time? Only irrational fans would say replacing Eli or preparing to do so is an unreasonable step at this point. We saw how much of a jolt going from Taylor to Baker did for the Browns, of course we dont have such a replacement on the roster yet, but that change has to start somehow.
At this point, Id say only the Eli defenders would think bringing him back with tweaks to the roster is the appropriate things to do. If we get an all pro center and RT next year and Eli still cant get it done with his declining physical skills, I wonder what they will blame next? The defense not pitching shutouts? Specials not giving Eli favorable field position? What?