Responded to Shurmur not mentioning Eli by name in post game press conference in regards to what was wrong with the offense yesterday. Said the coach is walking around the real issue of what's wrong with the team because his predecessor didn't fare too well when he tried to address it.
I know the league is moving in the opposite direction, but I still think a good defense and running game can take you far in this league. That said, at some point, the Titans won't be able to overcome their QB in the playoffs.
I know the league is moving in the opposite direction, but I still think a good defense and running game can take you far in this league. That said, at some point, the Titans won't be able to overcome their QB in the playoffs.
Signing Mariota to a long term deal will end their run as a good team. He simply isnt very good.
Are you seeing the pattern Eli apologists?????/
You’re wasting your time. Now that the several week long circle jerk is over and he turned back into a pumpkin, we’ll be back to “the salary doesn’t matter”, “he doesn’t make that much”, and “you’ll only save a little bit by moving on”. Once that doesn’t go well, it will shift to “I’m OK if they move on but I’m just telling you they aren’t going to you’re a dumb-dumb if you think they are going to”, “I’m not talking about what they should do, I’m talking about what they will do”. All while defending him from every criticism.
Repeat repeat call people names repeat.
Quote:
Any of those other blame-worthy targets pushing 38 years old and occupying $23MM of cap space?
Are you seeing the pattern Eli apologists?????/
You’re wasting your time. Now that the several week long circle jerk is over and he turned back into a pumpkin, we’ll be back to “the salary doesn’t matter”, “he doesn’t make that much”, and “you’ll only save a little bit by moving on”. Once that doesn’t go well, it will shift to “I’m OK if they move on but I’m just telling you they aren’t going to you’re a dumb-dumb if you think they are going to”, “I’m not talking about what they should do, I’m talking about what they will do”. All while defending him from every criticism.
Repeat repeat call people names repeat.
lol....
Sorry if your feelings got hurt.
What schtick? Being right?
Sorry, guess I should engage in more fantasy discussion like cutting Eli outright, trading him, or forcing him to take a paycut just because.
He has been more right than most posters on this board. But its funny he gets called out but other posters who do nothing but shit and live to shit on players get passes.
Its like some posters feel the need to openly mock the fans who are actually rooting for the players todo well. Its just an odd phenomenon here.
wear it proudly, but nobody is impressed.
wear it proudly, but nobody is impressed.
You don't think I want the team to win? You think I enjoy losing just to keep seeing Eli Manning play?
The problem is so much bigger than Eli Manning, but some of you have such laser focus on him that it clouds the rest of the picture. Cut him. I don't care. I'm as ready for the future as the next poster. In fact, I've seen the future. It's Saquon. Regardless whether it's for Saquon or the next QB, they need continue building the line. The defense needs to be addressed. They can't stop the run or rush the passer.
In the meantime, Eli will be here for a myriad of reasons. Mainly financial and lack of replacement available in the meantime.
But if it makes you feel emotionally better to come up with fantasy scenarios where we cut or trade them, by all means placate yourself.
bigbluehoya : 9:57 am : link : reply
for a long time? the team being really bad for a long time.
wear it proudly, but nobody is impressed.
Is the insinuation that if you just had a different QB the team would be better?
Or is it just classic frustration that instead of understanding the problems are multi-faceted that trying to pigeon-hole it to one player is convenient?
A different QB may mask some problems and highlight others, but it certainly isn't just magically making us competitive.
Wearing the idea that it does proudly isn't impressing anyone either
It's quite literally, other than ownership, the only ingredient that hasn't been changed. Every single other input has had its bloodletting.
Remember -- don't actually argue that point -- but tell me how it's a "fantasy scenario" to suggest that the player should be cut.
It's idiotic dumping on Eli Manning. Manning is a legendary QB in NY plain and simple. His accomplishments should earn him more respect especially from somebody like Boomer who wishes he had a career like Eli
Quote:
you know what has corresponded with 'being right'
bigbluehoya : 9:57 am : link : reply
for a long time? the team being really bad for a long time.
wear it proudly, but nobody is impressed.
Is the insinuation that if you just had a different QB the team would be better?
Or is it just classic frustration that instead of understanding the problems are multi-faceted that trying to pigeon-hole it to one player is convenient?
A different QB may mask some problems and highlight others, but it certainly isn't just magically making us competitive.
Wearing the idea that it does proudly isn't impressing anyone either
What does it mean? Britt pounds his chest daily around here about how well he has predicted NYG's moves for the last bunch of years.
And the Giants have sucked. So I don't know what value being a good guesser about their horrible management has.
Get it now?
It's quite literally, other than ownership, the only ingredient that hasn't been changed. Every single other input has had its bloodletting.
Remember -- don't actually argue that point -- but tell me how it's a "fantasy scenario" to suggest that the player should be cut.
The Qb is the only thing that hasnt changed?
Just because players changed, doesnt mean the units are better. The OL has sucked for nearly a decade now. The defense outside of 2016 hasnt been good either.
So you are saying switching the QB is the answer cause the others one havent been either.
Britt being right has had no bearing on the performance of the team. Being right is simply being right.
Its like they didnt see our OL and DL look like JV units out there yesterday or for much of the year.
People used to speculate that he was better, that Carton was dragging Boomer down, but he's just a shitty analyst with an agenda regardless.
It's quite literally, other than ownership, the only ingredient that hasn't been changed. Every single other input has had its bloodletting.
Remember -- don't actually argue that point -- but tell me how it's a "fantasy scenario" to suggest that the player should be cut.
Because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, based on the options available.
Manning is making 23 million next year, in the FINAL year (big money year) of his contract. The way QB contracts have evolved since that deal was written, 23 million is not even first year money (Dak is seeking 28 million per year, just as a reference point).
Now that that's out of the way, you want to draft his replacement, right? That's where this is going. So you have five years of cost controlled QB play before the above mentioned second contract of ridiculous money.
Now, here's why you trot Eli out there next year:
1. You need a veteran QB on the roster if you are drafting a rookie.
2. Even signing journeymen QB's costs a good amount of money. Eli would leave 6 million or so in dead money, so you have to add that to whatever said journeyman costs, let's say we can sign one for 10 million just to throw a cheap option out there. So you have that 10 million, PLUS Eli's 6 million in dead money tied up in the postion. Is the savings of 7 million really worth the drop off from Eli Manning to say Sam Bradford, or Tyrod Taylor?
Also the cap is going up another 10 million next year. Compared to what other teams have alloted for and invested in the QB position, 23 million, believe it or not, isn't actually that bad.
3. Let's go back to having a cost controlled rookie QB for five years. The team, and especially the O-line are a work in progress. Why not throw Eli out there another year while they continue to build the line, get the rest of the roster in order, and then you either have rookie next year to come in late in the season when things have solidified, OR, you let Eli play out his contract, extend him one year to get his salary down and just push off that placeholder position a little further if you're drafting a QB in 2020, and you still have an all around better situation for the new young QB when he comes in, vs. the sh-t show he'd be exposed to right now?
Having an all around better roster will maximize those five years of your cost controlled rookie, rather than waste not only his development, but also his five years wasting away with a poor roster. Fix the roster. Period.
You need a succession plan. That would be a logical and reasonable one for the reasons I've outlined.
Not even Eli’s staunchest supporters, those who invade BBI after every loss to explain all the reasons why Eli is a victim of circumstance, can admit with a straight face this team can win a SB with Eli anymore. It would take a massive talent upgrade and overhaul, and praying for miracle #3.
At best, with Eli we are a 9-10 win team, with Eli stats of 25 TDs, 16 INTs, 64% completion, 7 fumbles, and a 88 rating.
Look familiar? The definition of insanity on fully display at Jints Central - doing the same, damn stupid thing year after year after year hoping for a different result.
Jints Central. There is no substitute.
Like Jerrah's World or Napolean Dan's Kingdom.
Jints Central - the dysfunctional organization that only has a SB win in every decade since the end of the 70's,
Let the season play out and look and his body of work as a whole, and that goes for the whole offense too. There are 11 players out there not just one.
Neither is Simms when talking about the Giants
QB situation. I think Simms has empathy for Eli,
based on the fact he was released at the end of his career.
Quote:
release a late-30s quarterback making $20M who has lead the team to a ridiculously-lower-than-.500 record for the past 6 seasons?
It's quite literally, other than ownership, the only ingredient that hasn't been changed. Every single other input has had its bloodletting.
Remember -- don't actually argue that point -- but tell me how it's a "fantasy scenario" to suggest that the player should be cut.
Because it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, based on the options available.
Manning is making 23 million next year, in the FINAL year (big money year) of his contract. The way QB contracts have evolved since that deal was written, 23 million is not even first year money (Dak is seeking 28 million per year, just as a reference point).
Now that that's out of the way, you want to draft his replacement, right? That's where this is going. So you have five years of cost controlled QB play before the above mentioned second contract of ridiculous money.
Now, here's why you trot Eli out there next year:
1. You need a veteran QB on the roster if you are drafting a rookie.
2. Even signing journeymen QB's costs a good amount of money. Eli would leave 6 million or so in dead money, so you have to add that to whatever said journeyman costs, let's say we can sign one for 10 million just to throw a cheap option out there. So you have that 10 million, PLUS Eli's 6 million in dead money tied up in the postion. Is the savings of 7 million really worth the drop off from Eli Manning to say Sam Bradford, or Tyrod Taylor?
Also the cap is going up another 10 million next year. Compared to what other teams have alloted for and invested in the QB position, 23 million, believe it or not, isn't actually that bad.
3. Let's go back to having a cost controlled rookie QB for five years. The team, and especially the O-line are a work in progress. Why not throw Eli out there another year while they continue to build the line, get the rest of the roster in order, and then you either have rookie next year to come in late in the season when things have solidified, OR, you let Eli play out his contract, extend him one year to get his salary down and just push off that placeholder position a little further if you're drafting a QB in 2020, and you still have an all around better situation for the new young QB when he comes in, vs. the sh-t show he'd be exposed to right now?
Having an all around better roster will maximize those five years of your cost controlled rookie, rather than waste not only his development, but also his five years wasting away with a poor roster. Fix the roster. Period.
You need a succession plan. That would be a logical and reasonable one for the reasons I've outlined.
you have a logical basis in what you suggest, no doubt. but step back here.
You've said that wanting to release Eli and move on is a crazy/fantasy/bad viewpoint.
But extending him now, beyond next season, sight unseen is a reasonable approach?
Think about that.
Stuff like that is why you get a lot of shit here. And that's not to say that your opinion is the entirely crazy one (I happen to hate the idea, but I see your thinking).
If they have a new QB, I will root for him and the Giants.
I'm accused of being emotional. But as you've just admitted, what I've posted is completely logical with a clear thought process.
If they cut Eli I will be fine with it, he's had a great run, but for the reasons I outlined don't think it's the best move.
But I will not root against the team or the player that replaces him simply because they went against my wishes. I will root like hell for the team.
The team that they root for, they are openly wanting to fail.
That's what I find to be the overly emotional and irrational take.
The second the Pats had one of those bad losses, the 'Is Brady Done' articles started creeping up. And they're a team that has had a lot more success, and they're currently playoff bound. If the Pats were in the same situation we're in, the media would be on Brady like white on rice.
They have plenty of information available to them to evaluate both Eli, and vs. anybody that they would sign to replace him, and make a decision.
The team that they root for, they are openly wanting to fail.
That's what I find to be the overly emotional and irrational take.
Probably because the current GM used the one good game "the eagles game", as enough evidence that they should keep moving forward with Eli.
We are scared that another "good game" prolongs the inevitable and ultimately sets the franchise back
Yes, big debate in New England about Brady. Not quite as vitriol-filled as Eli and the Giants because the Patriots are going to the playoffs and a good chance at winning the super bowl, but nonetheless the debate rages on
I think there has been ample criticism on Brady this year. He's admitted he's been off. And there has been this "Brady Watch" going on since three years ago that he's nearing the cliff.
But like you said, he's a completely different player. The guy has been to 3 of the last 4 SBs, and won 2. And coming off an MVP season. So there is a ton of equity built in.
Eli is on empty.
Its like they didnt see our OL and DL look like JV units out there yesterday or for much of the year.
It is true that this team has more holes to fill than QB. In fact, QB is not the firs problem on this team as we all SHOULD know. If everything else was fixed, we could still win with Eli. Replace Eli with a rookie now and this team still loses.
What others here have said is that it is not just ONE player (ie Eli) that is the problem. What I have said in the past is that Eli is a decent QB but not a good fit for what we assembled around him. In today's game, the QB either needs a lot of time to throw or needs to be able to extend the play if needed with his legs. We have not given him a lot of time to throw. Not for a while.
I am seeing defensive lines dominate offensive lines more often than not in the league. This is part of the evolution of the game. So, it is not going to get any easier for Eli behind this OL.
Quote:
But extending him now, beyond next season, sight unseen is a reasonable approach?
They have plenty of information available to them to evaluate both Eli, and vs. anybody that they would sign to replace him, and make a decision.
well, it's sight unseen in the sense that you're assuming that from age 37 to 39 there is no additional deterioration. (or just no deterioration if you think he's still right now what he was).
I can't see the validity in any argument that supports signing Eli to a 2020 extension before the 2019 season, unless there is literally zero guaranteed 2020 cash / cap hit.
Lolol
Eli is fine...there! Acceptable knowledgable reply..here
I am seeing defensive lines dominate offensive lines more often than not in the league. This is part of the evolution of the game. So, it is not going to get any easier for Eli behind this OL.
See I disagree with this. Teams like the Saints, Rams, Chiefs OLs arent getting dominated. They may lose battles during the game... but they arent being dominated.
You arent a high porlific offense with OLs that get dominated.
That interception last night was god awful.
Just like Barkley was touched by the Hand of God and analytics suck. And something about donuts and hot dogs....
Its like they didnt see our OL and DL look like JV units out there yesterday or for much of the year.
This is a straw-man. There is not a single NYG fan alive who thinks it's all fixed once Eli is gone. That doesn't mean he should stay.
Quote:
Quote:
But extending him now, beyond next season, sight unseen is a reasonable approach?
They have plenty of information available to them to evaluate both Eli, and vs. anybody that they would sign to replace him, and make a decision.
well, it's sight unseen in the sense that you're assuming that from age 37 to 39 there is no additional deterioration. (or just no deterioration if you think he's still right now what he was).
I can't see the validity in any argument that supports signing Eli to a 2020 extension before the 2019 season, unless there is literally zero guaranteed 2020 cash / cap hit.
I think those things will be factored in, along with a million other variables, when they make the decision.
If they are ready to move on, they won't extend him. If they think he has a little something left, then they may consider a one year extension in order to get his pay more manageable to address something else roster related.
But if you look at everything in totality, one of the two options above are the likeliest scenario.
If that's beating my chest, so be it.
With the roster in 2017, the offense was putrid.
With a turnover in 2018 and a dynamic RB picked 2nd overall, the offense is putrid.
Is there any chance the offense isn't putrid again in 19?
Let Eli ride off into the sunset - either here or elsewhere, and take whatever cap you can recover and use it on either taking other hits so you're clear in '20 or sign other players. Get a cheap, mobile QB with the understanding the objective is to draft one high in '20, and lose baby lose. The losing is going to happen one way or the other, might as well embrace it and prepare for the future.
I suppose $20M is a lot to leave on the table for that, though.
Quote:
game in the rain. Their running game worked. Ours, not so much
part of the reason Tennessee running game success wS the giants D had to respect Mariotta’s running ability and they called a number of option plays.
LOL.
I don’t remember who posted this comment about Eli a while back, but I think it s true.
Paraphrasing because I don’t remember:
Older quarterbacks, good ones like Eli, will still be able to remind you of their greatness throughput the course of a season. I t s not like they totally forget how to play. They do enough to allow you to believe if we can jus get better around him.
But their ability on a consistent basis is just not there anymore. ......
Me, I see flashes of the old Eli when things are clicking. But I also see how overwhelmed he sometimes is by the athleticism around him as the pocket collapses
Eli has never been good at extending plays, but he almos always hung in there right up to getting hit making big plays. I don’t see this anymore, I see the opposite
I m am not an Eli hater, nor a fanboy. I am a Giants fan first and want what s best for the team.
I don’t know what that means for the quarterback position going forward but we ll see