Responded to Shurmur not mentioning Eli by name in post game press conference in regards to what was wrong with the offense yesterday. Said the coach is walking around the real issue of what's wrong with the team because his predecessor didn't fare too well when he tried to address it.
This is a straw-man. There is not a single NYG fan alive who thinks it's all fixed once Eli is gone. That doesn't mean he should stay.
There are many on this board who do. Hell.... how many times have you read that there has been ONE constant to the losing in the last 7 years. I think you said it yourself....
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This is a straw-man. There is not a single NYG fan alive who thinks it's all fixed once Eli is gone. That doesn't mean he should stay.
There are many on this board who do. Hell.... how many times have you read that there has been ONE constant to the losing in the last 7 years. I think you said it yourself....
those are two different things though, no?
Isn't it basically just a statement of fact that (other than ownership), the one thing that has been present in all of the last 7 painful years has been Eli? I say that without blame or attribution. I don't see how you can bash someone for pointing that out. If it's the basis of an entire argument, I'd agree that it's not a very strong argument.
In any case, it's a country mile away from saying that the only thing NYG needs is a QB change (which literally nobody thinks).
There have been many constants on this team in the last 7 years. Poor coaching, inconsistent QB play, no OL, bad defense outside 2016, horrific Special teams.
Changing the name on the back of the jersey doesnt mean things actually changed, does it?
There have been many constants on this team in the last 7 years. Poor coaching, inconsistent QB play, no OL, bad defense outside 2016, horrific Special teams.
Changing the name on the back of the jersey doesnt mean things actually changed, does it?
But now you're twisting it. Clearly, when someone says that Eli has been the only constant, they mean in terms of actual players/coaches/inputs. Obviously, when you have 7 shitty years, you did a lot of things shitty for 7 years. The shitty-ness is an output, not an input.
Eli has been just about the only constant input for which no alternatives have been tried. That's damn near a fact. That doesn't prove that it's his fault, all or partial, but it's definitely not an incorrect statement.
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Probably because the current GM used the one good game "the eagles game", as enough evidence that they should keep moving forward with Eli.
Just like Barkley was touched by the Hand of God and analytics suck. And something about donuts and hot dogs....
Myths? He actually said those things.
But there have been a lot more negative consistences than the QB. A LOT more.
But there have been a lot more negative consistences than the QB. A LOT more.
But that's not what I said. At all. I said nothing about his actual play.
I said that his presence, his existence as the starting QB, has been the only ingredient that they haven't tried changing. Which is a fact.
You can not like it when people bring that up as an argument, because it's not compelling on its own, but it's a fact.
Les in TO : 11:07 am : link : reply
Carried this team to a championship in the playoffs
He and Eli were in the exact same spot. Eli got 2 rings And Boomer shit his pants.
I said that his presence, his existence as the starting QB, has been the only ingredient that they haven't tried changing. Which is a fact.
So why bring it up then? It doesnt mean a hill of beans either. I rather talk about consistent production and what is being produced on the field.
It's all in the context. He made a flippant remark about analytics and people started saying he hates analytics and doesn't think they are useful. Even though he implemented the analytics program in Carolina and helped his protege, Brandon Beane, improve the analytics in Buffalo.
You should know what is taken at face value and what isn't.
When bullshit like that is actually used to bash him - and referred to constantly, it is absolutely stupid.
You literally have people here who think he looked at the Eagles tape and made up his mind - a guy who has watched tape his entire life, drew conclusions on just one game.
C'mon.
Some people should just be ignored.
That would be like me saying that all people who want to (or think they will.....) keep Eli are batshit crazy because one guy says Eli hasn't declined at all.
We don't strengthen our arguments by singling out the most egregious examples of people who disagree with us.
Eli didn't carry the team, and couldn't generate big drives and he had bad turnovers. But pinning this on him and not our offensive and defensive lines misses the mark completely.
Our "touched by the hand of god" running back had 31 yards on 14 carries and that included a run for 17 yards. In other words, outside of that one good run, he had 13 carries for 14 yards.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the ball, Derrick Henry and Dion Lewis went 40/205 with a long of 22.
On top of that, Mariota dropped back 20 times and was hit twice. Manning dropped back 44 times and was hit 8 times.
Out lines were dreadful.
Go watch the Steelers-Patriots game. Ben had an eternity back there, gets production from his running game no matter who is in there, and has multiple receivers that go up and make spectacular catches.
Switch Ben and Eli and Eli looks like he still has it whereas Ben would look finished.
Some people should just be ignored.
Because there are more Les's of BBI now than ever before.
Our discussion, while we dont agree is I think at least respectful.
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I said that his presence, his existence as the starting QB, has been the only ingredient that they haven't tried changing. Which is a fact.
So why bring it up then? It doesnt mean a hill of beans either. I rather talk about consistent production and what is being produced on the field.
its not entirely irrelevant.
there's an argument that goes something like:
-Eli is getting old
-He gets paid a lot of money
-It's unlikely they put the right set of conditions around him to win sustainably by the time he's completely toast.
-The team has sucked for a long time, and the one thing they haven't even TRIED is giving another QB a run at it. -A belief that a QB who can use his legs as a weapon is desirable or necessary in today's NFL.
It's a mosaic of things. And that's not to say there aren't coherent counter arguments. But making the above set of beliefs out to be something crazy is a suspicious opinion to have.
History will be much kinder to Eli Manning.
History will be much kinder to Eli Manning.
Each day Eli is away from this will be a day his legacy improves.
Eli didn't carry the team, and couldn't generate big drives and he had bad turnovers. But pinning this on him and not our offensive and defensive lines misses the mark completely.
Our "touched by the hand of god" running back had 31 yards on 14 carries and that included a run for 17 yards. In other words, outside of that one good run, he had 13 carries for 14 yards.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the ball, Derrick Henry and Dion Lewis went 40/205 with a long of 22.
On top of that, Mariota dropped back 20 times and was hit twice. Manning dropped back 44 times and was hit 8 times.
Out lines were dreadful.
Go watch the Steelers-Patriots game. Ben had an eternity back there, gets production from his running game no matter who is in there, and has multiple receivers that go up and make spectacular catches.
Switch Ben and Eli and Eli looks like he still has it whereas Ben would look finished.
Agree about Steelers and Ben. He has many plays where he can fucking eat a sandwich and throw. Also, every back produces hmm why is that?
Ben is still more elusive than Eli and always has been, and he is a load to bring down. But, I am certain the Giants would be exactly the same with Ben here this season instead of Eli.
Except Ben would likely be hurt.
History will be much kinder to Eli Manning.
Yeah, in some ways would be a relief. Many here would get there wish and it would be over.
Set your DVR's I think week 17 is Eli's last. He is going to be cut.
PaulN : 11:38 am : link : reply
Then you buy yourself time, improve the position drastically, and sill can go get your future QB
Improving the position drastically?? Wow.
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Does Pat Shurmur want Eli Manning back next season? Yeah. I want all our players to be back. I believe experience matters.
Does he still believe Manning has years remaining as an NFL starter? Yeah, I do.
If they have a new QB, I will root for him and the Giants.
I'm accused of being emotional. But as you've just admitted, what I've posted is completely logical with a clear thought process.
If they cut Eli I will be fine with it, he's had a great run, but for the reasons I outlined don't think it's the best move.
But I will not root against the team or the player that replaces him simply because they went against my wishes. I will root like hell for the team.
Irrelevant.
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Ralph Vacchiano
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Does Pat Shurmur want Eli Manning back next season? Yeah. I want all our players to be back. I believe experience matters.
Does he still believe Manning has years remaining as an NFL starter? Yeah, I do.
This franchise is fucked.
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Ralph Vacchiano
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Does Pat Shurmur want Eli Manning back next season? Yeah. I want all our players to be back. I believe experience matters.
Does he still believe Manning has years remaining as an NFL starter? Yeah, I do.
I wonder if Shurmur was reading that from a 3X5 index card or he memorized what he heard in Mara's Monday morning staff meeting?
Fix the roster.
do you think they can with a different QB and the same roster?
Simmons absolutely hates Eli and the Giants. Especially Eli. He is still butt sore from the Giants (mostly Eli) for betting them in the first SB and denying Simmons from writing that Pats undefeated season book.
Maybe it would have made him a lot of money? Who knows...
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In all seriousness, do you really think this team can win a SB with Eli at this stage?
do you think they can with a different QB and the same roster?
They'll never know until they try. You can use that reason until Eli is 60, if you wanted.
I wouldnt have been opposed to it.
Then I saw Lauletta play.
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In comment 14223394 bw in dc said:
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In all seriousness, do you really think this team can win a SB with Eli at this stage?
do you think they can with a different QB and the same roster?
They'll never know until they try. You can use that reason until Eli is 60, if you wanted.
lol.... really?
Eli didn't carry the team, and couldn't generate big drives and he had bad turnovers. But pinning this on him and not our offensive and defensive lines misses the mark completely.
Shep stunk, some passes were dropped, and they couldn't run the ball worth a damn. That being said, it was still a ball security game and Eli made two back-breaking turnovers. For all of Derrick Henry's rushing yards, it was a one score game until Eli's fumble. Eli made some good passes yesterday. He also almost threw a pick by forcing the ball to Barkley in the flat trying to avoid a sack. He threw another short pass to Barkley while he was triple-covered. He threw too many of his patented spin as he throws to avoid hard contact passes that are often disasters.
I can't defend him. I thought he was pretty bad yesterday even taking Shepard's horrendous game into account.
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In all seriousness, do you really think this team can win a SB with Eli at this stage?
do you think they can with a different QB and the same roster?
I don't know. But I know with much more confidence we can't with Eli.
So with that conclusion, I think logic dictates you move on to the next generation and begin that process.
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In comment 14223406 dep026 said:
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In comment 14223394 bw in dc said:
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In all seriousness, do you really think this team can win a SB with Eli at this stage?
do you think they can with a different QB and the same roster?
They'll never know until they try. You can use that reason until Eli is 60, if you wanted.
lol.... really?
lol...really.
BBI at its finest. If either of you think this is a QB change away from being a SB contending team, I just have no words.
And do I think Eli can win a SB? Absolutely. But not on this team. Aaron Rodgers couldnt either.
Dont forget IAEF.
BBI at its finest. If either of you think this is a QB change away from being a SB contending team, I just have no words.
And do I think Eli can win a SB? Absolutely. But not on this team. Aaron Rodgers couldnt either.
there seems to be an underlying premise here; let me know if it captures what you think -- Eli shouldn't be replaced until someone can show you evidence that he's the only thing preventing them from winning?
BBI at its finest. If either of you think this is a QB change away from being a SB contending team, I just have no words.
And do I think Eli can win a SB? Absolutely. But not on this team. Aaron Rodgers couldnt either.
I did answer your question - assuming I am being lumped in as one of Eli's biggest critics.
there seems to be an underlying premise here; let me know if it captures what you think -- Eli shouldn't be replaced until someone can show you evidence that he's the only thing preventing them from winning?
No not at all. What gets lost in translation is simple.
This is my opinion, so you can refer to me and back me up if it happens....
If the Giants take either Haskins/herbert/Jones or whoeever with their first overall pick in this upcoming draft... I would fully support it and hope for the best. Because that means they researched, studies, and did due dilligence on the pick. No qualms whatsoever.
Now just from my opinion, I dont think any of these guys are ready to be that guy. I could be wrong. I just dont see it. I was a fan of Rosen and Darnold last year being a selection. I dont see it with these guys.
I jsut think there are a shit ton of posters who are in the category of: "We need to take a QB no matter what and get rid of Eli." That makes very little sense to me and how often it is expressed is just surprising to me.