Evan Engram

Or at least make him a permanent H-Back. I understand his skills won't be as accentuated as a flanker, but he simply cannot play inline. His blocking is really subpar. That holding penalty yesterday was an absolute killer.


So I wouldn't mind for next year if OBJ and Engram were the outside receivers, Shepard was in the slot guy, and Ellison and someone else were the TEs. It's a pretty good TE class and I have a few guys I really like. I know he had some dropped passes, but I really like Michigan's Zach Gentry. Kid is 6'8 and runs pretty fast.

He's a poor fit for this offense. He's a weapon though, the Giants should be lining him up on the perimeter more to get him on the field. It's not like Benny Fowler and Russell Shephard are guys you have to have on the field. We're toast, start experimenting with him out there in these next two games.

He's so fast and big when he's in space. I'd being doing everything possible to spring him and not have him banging around at the line.

In comment 14223289 Anakim said:

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Or at least make him a permanent H-Back. I understand his skills won't be as accentuated as a flanker, but he simply cannot play inline. His blocking is really subpar. That holding penalty yesterday was an absolute killer. So I wouldn't mind for next year if OBJ and Engram were the outside receivers, Shepard was in the slot guy, and Ellison and someone else were the TEs. It's a pretty good TE class and I have a few guys I really like. I know he had some dropped passes, but I really like Michigan's Zach Gentry. Kid is 6'8 and runs pretty fast.

Whatever works . Guy Is a 1st round pick with obvious talent

I'd be surprised if he's still on the team 2 years from now and is going to be another wasted Jerry Reese first round pick.

isn't a WR already?

Is it because Anakim is smarter than Shurmur, Shula, Tolbert and Wells?

Or maybe because he just can't run enough routes in the WR tree to line up there consistently or maybe there are other issues that suggest he's not a WR despite all the fans eagerness to move him there.

Engram is playing ~40% of the offensive snaps, I don't know if moving him to WR helps anything.

My point is with no clear outside WR opposite BEckham, and a clear lack of blocking ability and some supposedly pretty good offensive minds - they still have him at TE quite often.

Bennie Fowler is almost on the field the same number of snaps as Engram.

Think about that for a minute.

He has straightline speed.....not speed coming out of breaks....drops too many passes.....terrible blocker.....

But I agree, you must force feed him....and these patterns near the LOS are ridiculous.....he should do more seam patterns.....

When you watch the pass patterns this team runs, you just have to shake your head....that is on Shurm & Shula....

We need Mark Bavaro

In comment 14223313 pjcas18 said:

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isn't a WR already? Is it because Anakim is smarter than Shurmur, Shula, Tolbert and Wells? Or maybe because he just can't run enough routes in the WR tree to line up there consistently or maybe there are other issues that suggest he's not a WR despite all the fans eagerness to move him there. Engram is playing ~40% of the offensive snaps, I don't know if moving him to WR helps anything. My point is with no clear outside WR opposite BEckham, and a clear lack of blocking ability and some supposedly pretty good offensive minds - they still have him at TE quite often. Bennie Fowler is almost on the field the same number of snaps as Engram. Think about that for a minute.

He runs better routes than Corey Coleman

In comment 14223344 Anakim said:

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In comment 14223313 pjcas18 said: Quote: isn't a WR already? Is it because Anakim is smarter than Shurmur, Shula, Tolbert and Wells? Or maybe because he just can't run enough routes in the WR tree to line up there consistently or maybe there are other issues that suggest he's not a WR despite all the fans eagerness to move him there. Engram is playing ~40% of the offensive snaps, I don't know if moving him to WR helps anything. My point is with no clear outside WR opposite BEckham, and a clear lack of blocking ability and some supposedly pretty good offensive minds - they still have him at TE quite often. Bennie Fowler is almost on the field the same number of snaps as Engram. Think about that for a minute. He runs better routes than Corey Coleman

Coleman shouldn't be on the field at WR either. He should be a kick returner and a depth WR. Like he is now.

pick from the reese and ross braintrust. he's cost controlled for now and he's better than larry donnell, but he's a downgrade from shockey, boss, ellison, and i'd argue that even brandon myers was better (at least in terms of being more than a glorified pass catcher).

In comment 14223349 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 14223344 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 14223313 pjcas18 said: Quote: isn't a WR already? Is it because Anakim is smarter than Shurmur, Shula, Tolbert and Wells? Or maybe because he just can't run enough routes in the WR tree to line up there consistently or maybe there are other issues that suggest he's not a WR despite all the fans eagerness to move him there. Engram is playing ~40% of the offensive snaps, I don't know if moving him to WR helps anything. My point is with no clear outside WR opposite BEckham, and a clear lack of blocking ability and some supposedly pretty good offensive minds - they still have him at TE quite often. Bennie Fowler is almost on the field the same number of snaps as Engram. Think about that for a minute. He runs better routes than Corey Coleman Coleman shouldn't be on the field at WR either. He should be a kick returner and a depth WR. Like he is now.

Well he is on the field as the deep threat. I do agree that Engram's route running is an issue, but putting him inline isn't doing him any favors. He seems to excel as a slot guy.

That was actually a pretty damn good block. During the replay, I think it was Trent Green said, "that was a terrible call"

I'm not saying the kid is an in-line blocker, but maybe he's not as bad as we think?!

In comment 14223289 Anakim said:

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Or at least make him a permanent H-Back. I understand his skills won't be as accentuated as a flanker, but he simply cannot play inline. His blocking is really subpar. That holding penalty yesterday was an absolute killer. So I wouldn't mind for next year if OBJ and Engram were the outside receivers, Shepard was in the slot guy, and Ellison and someone else were the TEs. It's a pretty good TE class and I have a few guys I really like. I know he had some dropped passes, but I really like Michigan's Zach Gentry. Kid is 6'8 and runs pretty fast.

There would be nothing wrong with trying that in pre-season.

has looked at him at WR. He probably is just not good at it.

I can't wait to watch the all-22 of yesterday's game. I'm really curious to what went wrong in the running game and I believe he played more snaps. Was he part of the problem?

Here's what I've seen. He does not appear to have an explosive first step. He doesn't have a lot of lateral quickness either. He really struggles with reach blocks. His assignment almost always beats him inside leaving him grabby. He does much better in zone blocking assignments.

Not sure I'd condemn his route running altogether, but I believe he could improve as he should have enough speed to gain more separation off the line. I think he struggles to gain separation when asked to run drag routes and the shallow crossing patterns given to him. LBers and safeties can win defending by getting their hands on him at the LOS.

I'd see what I can do about getting him off the line and giving him more vertical/seam routes. By stacking him at the line he should probably get a cleaner release.

I don't really know though. I'm thinking the coaches are struggling to find the best ways to use him because they know he is a weapon but he still has lots of little things he needs to do more consistently to win against quality NFL defenders both in the pass and run game.

SS and Engram in passing game. It’s like our offense is sandlot football sometimes trying to get a first down...

Straight line speed. He has no wiggle. No agility. He would not be able to get open playing wr. It’s evident everytime he catches the ball he runs straight, zero cutting ability. He isn’t reed, Gates, Henry. He has the wiggle as gronk and that’s not an exaggeration. He has to play tight end and he has to use his speed to beat linebackers.

Jimmy Graham 10Mil
22nd ranked WR salary:
Randall Cobb 10Mil.

It's been posted before, probably one of the reasons he will remain a TE.

He's a tweener. Not big enough to block like a TE not shifty enough to be a WR. There's a cost to having him on the field either in blocking or route running. Move on and get something in return.

Round hole.

I think he has some attributes a team could utilize, but he also has his fair share of deficiencies.

I don’t think he fits the identity of what the GM wants this team to look like going forward.

but last week and yesterday he was one of the better players on offense, and his speed can be a difference maker. His in year 2, and missed time this year with a hammy.

In comment 14223482 Dan in the Springs said:

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I can't wait to watch the all-22 of yesterday's game. I'm really curious to what went wrong in the running game and I believe he played more snaps. Was he part of the problem? Here's what I've seen. He does not appear to have an explosive first step. He doesn't have a lot of lateral quickness either. He really struggles with reach blocks. His assignment almost always beats him inside leaving him grabby. He does much better in zone blocking assignments. Not sure I'd condemn his route running altogether, but I believe he could improve as he should have enough speed to gain more separation off the line. I think he struggles to gain separation when asked to run drag routes and the shallow crossing patterns given to him. LBers and safeties can win defending by getting their hands on him at the LOS. I'd see what I can do about getting him off the line and giving him more vertical/seam routes. By stacking him at the line he should probably get a cleaner release. I don't really know though. I'm thinking the coaches are struggling to find the best ways to use him because they know he is a weapon but he still has lots of little things he needs to do more consistently to win against quality NFL defenders both in the pass and run game.

Nice analysis, more on this coming from me at Covert1.net sometime this week

In comment 14223536 RollBlue said:

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but last week and yesterday he was one of the better players on offense, and his speed can be a difference maker. His in year 2, and missed time this year with a hammy.

I believe he missed time due to a cheap shot taken to his knee.

to stay at TE and bulk up and gain a passion for getting better at the point of attack. His receiving skills and his speed are a mismatch for a TE but not a WR. He drops passes and is not really a standout WR. If you try to move him outside he will be just a guy.

In comment 14223547 tmanic21 said:

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Nice analysis, more on this coming from me at Covert1.net sometime this week

Thanks - I consider this quite the compliment! I'm very impressed with your work.

In comment 14223313 pjcas18 said:

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isn't a WR already? Is it because Anakim is smarter than Shurmur, Shula, Tolbert and Wells? Or maybe because he just can't run enough routes in the WR tree to line up there consistently or maybe there are other issues that suggest he's not a WR despite all the fans eagerness to move him there. Engram is playing ~40% of the offensive snaps, I don't know if moving him to WR helps anything. My point is with no clear outside WR opposite BEckham, and a clear lack of blocking ability and some supposedly pretty good offensive minds - they still have him at TE quite often. Bennie Fowler is almost on the field the same number of snaps as Engram. Think about that for a minute.

AMEN agree with Doomster as well I don't like Tweeners and
he is the very picture of one . He can't run the WR routes
I like Njoku at that point but really preferred an O-line
player . Give me the 6"5" 250 guy that can post up in the
middle of the field and the endzone . He's got straight line
speed questionable hands and can't block .

this off season. He doesn’t fit a fun first team. He’s more of a “basketball on grass” type player. (a JR specialty)

he was the only receiver on the Giants that caught the ball all day. Last couple weeks he has looked very good.

Stop making excuses. He just didn’t pan out as anything more than a serviceable player that can essentially be labeled a bust.

Drafting TE’s in the first round is always a huge risk. Another great Reese moment

An offense desperately short on blocking drafts a receiver who is called a tight end but can't block and apparently doesn't have the physique to become an effective blocker.

When your first round draft pick is only playing 40 percent of the snaps on a lousy offense, you know that something went very wrong. OBJ (assuming he is able to take the field now and then), Shepherd and Barclay are enough primary receivers. A good conventional blocking tight end with ordinary receiver ability was all that was called for, and even that wasn't a priority.

I don't remember the circumstances, but I'll bet that Reese got confused when the players he wanted were taken right ahead of him and Engram was an ill-considered panic pick.

this year. The guy is an Hback - you move him all over the place including outside and inline as a tight end. I do find his inability to turn the corner most times on a crossing pattern to be incredibly disappointing. He does serve a purpose and his snaps will go up once we get better line talent.

He is cost controlled for a couple of years. He isn't going anywhere for a couple of years.

Did a 2 part deep dive on his play. Part 1 dealt with some of his weaknesses and improvements. Part 2 (link below) jumps into the potential use of an H-back in the Giants offense. The H-Back does a lot of things for the Giants, especially if you want to put a base defense in conflict. Cheers
Link - ( New Window )

seems to me - blocking is a must for any TE.

Now, this is not me saying he sucks. That's why I want to trade him - he's got value and would bring back a good return.

I want the Giants to build a dominant running team around Barkley and don't see an H-back being part of that. If they could get a 2nd rounder for him I'd take it but it seems unlikely.

Beyond that, I keep him as a 3rd down/situational passing player.

In comment 14227247 tmanic21 said:

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Did a 2 part deep dive on his play. Part 1 dealt with some of his weaknesses and improvements. Part 2 (link below) jumps into the potential use of an H-back in the Giants offense. The H-Back does a lot of things for the Giants, especially if you want to put a base defense in conflict. Cheers Link - ( New Window )

That was really terrific. I remember that play action pass where he lined up in the backfield....for the life of me I can't understand why they don't run him on plays like that and seam passes more often. Isn't that why we drafted him, to destroy the cover-2 by utilizing his tremendous speed by running him straight up the field? By the time Eli turn around to throw he's already 20+ yards upfield. There's not a middle linebacker in the NFL that can keep up with him on that route.

Can't block with leverage

Can't catch with his hands

He's got great speed and that can be really useful in getting to the sideline for personnel substitutions