NFT: Knicks-Suns game thread.

hopefully offense has some ball movement and knox get a lot of touches..

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looks off knox to take a contested jumper

Ball isn�t moving

Frank and Mudiay play together

to tell us again how knox doesnt have "it"

once he bulks up a little.

.

I like how Fiz plays him the whole quarter.

In comment 14223934 bceagle05 said:

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I like how Fiz plays him the whole quarter.

Fizdale certainly has proved he will stay with hot hands

Not that I'm complaining, just wondering.

In comment 14223942 Del Shofner said:

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Not that I'm complaining, just wondering.

sore heel

..

Mudiay is really growing on me

without the Michigan men. Wish Knox got a couple more looks though.

that people thought he would be when he was drafted

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In comment 14223954 adamg said:

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This team regularly commits dumb fouls. Something the coaches need to work on

In comment 14223952 bceagle05 said:

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without the Michigan men. Wish Knox got a couple more looks though.

Because the ball is actually in the point guards hands and not in a scorers hands

Nice to see him back healthy

breathe on him it is a foul, meanwhile mudiay gets hit and knocked down no call

Keep him.

Meanwhile Lance Fancy Pants Thomas exposed again.

GET HIM OFF MY FUCKING TEAM!

booker barely touched gets the call, 2md half mudiay is pushed and no call

to often worry to much about trying to make contact and draw the foul instead of making the shot. See it time and time again.

Timmy's "heel injury" may be the difference.

it doesnt work

Should be playing in Azerbaijan.

spending so much time and energy in getting Mudiay �right ��of there hasn�t been internal discussions about him being the point guard going forward. I would like to see him and Ntilikina play together.

It worked one fucking time

but he is a horrible in game coach

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In comment 14223993 Dave on the UWS said:

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spending so much time and energy in getting Mudiay �right ��of there hasn�t been internal discussions about him being the point guard going forward. I would like to see him and Ntilikina play together.

Agree. I said it earlier.

And Michigan Man 2 jacks up a prayer.

Great team.

Hejonia is a stud. Luke Kornet.

Championship.

Stop fouling, Knox.

..

Is a Fucking clownshow.

is tough to watch

MSG's been all over him all night. He's been back to the Garden a billion times. No one cares.

In comment 14224016 B in ALB said:

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Is a Fucking clownshow.

they are the youngest team in the leagur what do you expect?

He should be so much better.

booker is a very selfish player

in the second half

Not THAT surprising of a result. Three in a row for Phoenix - maybe their young talent is starting to figure things out.

Only 50 games to go!

I�m still here. 6 for 16? Yup I�m still not sold on Knox or Frankie. Yes there getting better but I still don�t see star. Now you have to give it to me on Mudiay. Always liked him (yup even at #4 a few years back) wrong on KP if he comes back to what we all hope but I thought he had �It� a baller.

I mean there are no real PGs in the Draft and the free agent PGs tend to be older.

20 min and get 0 points? I would rather have Baker!!!

but to proclaim someone doesnt have it after 20 games is stupid..

he needs to get stronger but he can score on all 3 levels already, kid absolutely has "it"...

you may have on the hype train for mudiay but i was the leader of that train

well.... I guess it's tanking time.

curious what we have in Mudiay. 32-6-6 tonight.

Feel like he's still going under the radar.

8 december starts he's averaging 19-6-3 on .462 and .375.

mudiay averaged 12 and 6 his rookie year and then they drafted jokic and completely changed the offense and moved him off the ball

but his improvement is a good look for this coaching staff, especially with Fiz mentioning him by name at his opening presser. He kinda called his shot.

Mudiay. He was the only one who showed up consistently tonight and has been playing well for a decent amount of time now. The only questions are: Can he continue this for the rest of the season? and: What type of contract will he be looking for in the off season?

As for the Knox discussion, I was down on him early on, but his flashes seem so much brighter than what we have seen on this team from most other rookie players that it's hard not to get excited, assuming that he continues to improve.

As for the OP's question about John Jenkins. I haven't heard anything, but the Knicks do have an open slot available for a 2-way contract. Maybe they can sign him to one of those, that is unless he'd rather hold out and try to get a "real" contract.

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In comment 14224002 B in ALB said:

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And...

Jamal Crawford. Michigan Man. Lol

But anyway, this is a good loss for the tank.

with a number of players missing. Not at all a shock that they wore down in the second half--in fact, I predicted it above as a real possibility--"which I can envision the Knicks losing to awful Phoenix in the third game in 4 days."

Young players don't know how to conserve energy/stamina, AND they were short-handed.

Making players earn their minutes (esp young guys who will be with us going forward), showcase vets, and yes with the exception of Lance, I see improvement in Noah, Frank, Dotty, THJR (yes him), Knox is better, Mudiay, Kanter (hmmmmm), Lee = incomplete, Burke (not a fav of mine), Robinson (I�ll give his improvement to the front office for finding him), so yes I believe in the front office and the coach. Give us time have patience.

trolling Kanter and I don't think it's friends kidding around
Link - ( New Window )

Do you look to move frank to get rid of hardaways contract?

If knicks want a max slot thry need to clear 10 million at minimum

It depends on whether or not they can re-sign Mudiay

In comment 14224220 nygiants16 said:

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Do you look to move frank to get rid of hardaways contract? If knicks want a max slot thry need to clear 10 million at minimum

I wouldn�t unless you get signals from KD that he is really interested (which I think most of us tend to doubt)

Anthony Davis looming. I think Knicks should just focus on drafting good young players. Big free agents will come when they see a good young core

check out the walk Harden got away with at the end of the Jazz game? Ridiculous. Ref should be suspended immediately.

Plus, Westbrook - by far the fakest tough guy again in the NBA. Harden and Westbrook are a f'n joke anymore and I root for their teams to lose.

In comment 14224220 nygiants16 said:

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Do you look to move frank to get rid of hardaways contract? If knicks want a max slot thry need to clear 10 million at minimum

I am not convinced Mudiay has "emerged", nor do I sacrifice Frank unless it's in a trade for a stud.

Unless they get a decent offer for Hardaway, they should keep him until the summer. They can always package assets to move him if there's a big fish they want to sign.

The guy they need to trade is Burke. He's a backup PG and we already have too many guards (at least when they're all healthy). the PG minutes should go to Mudiay and Frank.

And if you can dump Kanter and not take back salary for next year, I'd do that too.

In comment 14224220 nygiants16 said:

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Do you look to move frank to get rid of hardaways contract? If knicks want a max slot thry need to clear 10 million at minimum

More often than not, Frank has not been impressive this year. Last night was tough to watch for Frank. I'm not sure he'd be enough to entice a team to take on THjr. Especially with the trade kicker, I don't think that there is much interest in Hardaway around the league. I'd bet that the Knicks are going to have to suck it up and wait out Timmy's contract. Imo though, hoping that Mudiay continues his current play, he is yet another example of a player who was just awful for over 3 seasons before suddenly showing signs of life. There is still hope for Frank.

you can deal Frank to move Hardaways contract during the summer if the cap space is needed. Absolutely no reason to do it now. For once can the Knicks just let the process play out? How many times do we see these superstars in the offseason announce they are going to sign with a team that can't actually afford their contract and then within 2 days that team clears out large chunks of cap space to not only fit the superstar but also bring in whoever else that guy may want to play with.

I cannot possible roll my eyes hard enough

In comment 14224406 Greg from LI said:

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I cannot possible roll my eyes hard enough

how many Knick games would you say you've watched this season?

He's still really young. There's no reason to give up on him now or use him to move a contract.

not to attract free agents but to see how he meshes with some of the young guys..

I dont think a max is coming, i think they will resign mudiay and vonleh as of right now and go with full youth movement and let the team grow..

now that changes if they trade tim and lee...

In comment 14224424 Enzo said:

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how many Knick games would you say you've watched this season?

8 or 9, I think. Now yell about how Frenchy's brilliance doesn't show up in box scores. Guy fucking sucks regardless of how good his defense is (which is good, but not the otherworldly HOF level defense his fan club pretends it is).

In comment 14224471 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 14224424 Enzo said: Quote: how many Knick games would you say you've watched this season? 8 or 9, I think. Now yell about how Frenchy's brilliance doesn't show up in box scores. Guy fucking sucks regardless of how good his defense is (which is good, but not the otherworldly HOF level defense his fan club pretends it is).

in other words, maybe 2 or 3. Keep those hot takes coming!

What good is watching more games than me doing you, since you can't admit that Frank sucks?

doesn't suck. Especially if he keeps up his play post benching.

Got benched and then showed flashes when he came back.

He has a long way to go to be a decent offensive player. But I'm not in a rush to get rid of him. I think there's a 3 and D guy with a little bit of playmaking in there somewhere.

he'll really be showing something.

He's one of the very worst offensive guards in league. You all can huff and puff about that all you want, there is no rational case you can rebut that with, which is why I hear so much about "But he's got such a pure stroke!"

It would be one thing if he still sucked but at least showed some progress, but nope, not the case.

I'm rooting for Frank. He's far from polished offensively. He will have a couple good games where we get excited if he makes a few shots. It's the same way when people get excited when the Giants beat a few teams led by backup QBs.

But Frank IS only 20. I'm hoping he could turn into a Chauncey Billups by the time he is 22-23. I'm not selling him, yet. He's responded to his benching. Fizdale fixed Mudiay and made him consistent this past month. I'm hoping to see the same with Frank.

the fact people were hoping he turned out to be George Hill. I mean Hill is a decent player, not anything people made him out to be (some pegged him an all-star here a few years ago... LOL).

With a top 10 pick, you gotta do better than George Hill.

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He's young, has a minimal contract, and has shown (although limited) flashes of ability that many in today's nba lack. The Knicks are in rebuilding mode. The idea is to try to find as many young players with growth potential as possible and see if they can tap into it. With Frank they just need to keep trying. If it doesn't work out so be it, but for those who see no potential, I just completely disagree. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll say it again, human beings don't often progress along a linear curve.

being benched and be ready to give up on him.

in the NBA. 3 of the top 10 picks that year I would classify as good NBA players. Then another 3 or 4 of the next 20.

Frank has one all world skillset, which is his off ball defense. He is a very good but not great on ball defender, and a very good passer. At 20, you can work with that.

He's also had enough very strong games (including 2 of his last 5) that you just can't write him off yet.

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In comment 14224587 Heisenberg said:

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George Hill of today? He sucks
George Hill of his prime? Middle of the pack at best PG.

Thats not a top 10 investment.

Then you have to say very poor handle.

In comment 14224660 Carl in CT said:

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Then you have to say very poor handle.

Terrible handle.

sobering reality of the NBA draft, this was a really good article I saw a couple years ago where they spit out what the "average" player selected in each spot of the first round is. It basically takes every player ever drafted in each slot and averages out their win shares / win shares per 48 / wins above replacement / etc. and spits out a player that best matches those averages. Hint - George Hill out of the 8th pick would be way above what the Knicks could realistically hope for.
Here�s what you can realistically expect from every first-round NBA Draft pick - ( New Window )

In comment 14224555 dep026 said:

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the fact people were hoping he turned out to be George Hill. I mean Hill is a decent player, not anything people made him out to be (some pegged him an all-star here a few years ago... LOL). With a top 10 pick, you gotta do better than George Hill.

players taken with #8 pick this century:
Frank, Marquse Chriss, Stanley Johnson, Stauskas, KCP, Terrence Ross, Brandon Knight, Aminu, Jordan Hill, Joe Alexander, Brandan Wright, Rudy Gay, Channing Frye, Rafael Araujo, TJ Ford, Chris Wilcox, Diop, Jamal Crawford.

Is there a single all-star appearance in that group? Yes you can find good players all through the draft, but outside the top 5 the talent typically drops off in a big way and it gets harder and harder to find good players.

In comment 14224517 Greg from LI said:

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What good is watching more games than me doing you, since you can't admit that Frank sucks?

your takes are worthless.

But since it's a blithering idiot.....

In comment 14224676 Greg from LI said:

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But since it's a blithering idiot.....

Your reaction to my comment is irrelevant...and you can make all the personal attacks you want. But the bottom line is you don't watch the games. So why should anyone care what you have to say?

Because I don't live in NY and most of their games aren't televised here. I watch when they're on.

I don't need to watch every game to know that Frenchy is 155th out of 159 guards who have played at least 20 games in TS%, for example. Why don't you regale me with paeans to Frenchy's glorious shooting form, honed from your extensive viewing of his offensive ineptitude?

In comment 14224652 dep026 said:

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In comment 14224587 Heisenberg said: Quote: . George Hill of today? He sucks George Hill of his prime? Middle of the pack at best PG. Thats not a top 10 investment.

It absolutely is a top ten investment. As was noted, picks outside the top 5 are still pretty hit or miss. George Hill has had a very solid career and most teams would sign up for that career with a #8 pick. Your expectations for a #8 pick are pretty unreasonable.

all that said, it's pretty unlikely that Frank approaches George Hill's career at this point. It's more likely that he's out of the league then has a 10 year run like Hill has.

The guy still needs to improve big time on offense but if you think he sucks you clearly haven't been watching or understand basketball. I think he can develop into a very good starting guard in this league. He's smart, a very good on ball and team defender, and plays unselfishly ( to a fault at times).

If not that has to be a concern

In comment 14225230 nygiants16 said:

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If not that has to be a concern

Would you come back this season if you were him? A lot to risk with a max contract on the line.

In comment 14225282 TyreeHelmet said:

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In comment 14225230 nygiants16 said: Quote: If not that has to be a concern Would you come back this season if you were him? A lot to risk with a max contract on the line.

i am not talking about playimg, i am just talking about prscticing...

but i do think it is very important for him to play to get the rust off and go into a nirmal iffseason

Thomas space of "the good things he does don't show up on a statsheet".

Maybe Frank can develop into a Trevor Ariza type player down the road, but I believe in the NBA if you're lottery special, you see something worth hanging on to right away.

Mudiay is a free agent, Trier and Dotson are restricted free agents after next season, and the Knicks have a high draft pick and money to spend this summer. Big roster decisions have to be made in the next year - can't play or pay everyone. If the Knicks don't believe in Frank, they'd be foolish not to gauge his trade value.

In comment 14224128 robbieballs2003 said:

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Man if they were ever going to catch the lotto break this would be the year. Knicks could go from zero to 60 in no time if they hit the lotto...

When the smoke clears on the Knicks brutal January schedule, they may have the worst record in basketball. KP may provide a spark down the stretch, but he won't be a miracle worker in limited action.

@Donahew_KUVN_TX
Follow Follow @Donahew_KUVN_TX
More
I have a reliable set of ears in the front office and I�m hearing the #Mavs are ready to move on from Matthews. Both sides are motivated to move him and a second rounder for Tim Hardaway Jr...More to come #MFFL⁠ ⁠ #Mavericks #Knicks

In comment 14225543 Jon in NYC said:

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@Donahew_KUVN_TX Follow Follow @Donahew_KUVN_TX More I have a reliable set of ears in the front office and I�m hearing the #Mavs are ready to move on from Matthews. Both sides are motivated to move him and a second rounder for Tim Hardaway Jr...More to come #MFFL⁠ ⁠ #Mavericks #Knicks

where do i sign?

but it's fun to think about. Supposedly that was the first tweet from that account - strange way to pop your Twitter cherry if it's some idiot looking for attention. Here's hoping and praying...