So the Mets invite him to spring training. Still a fast guy. Approaching 40.
What do we know? Seems relatively durable. Good vet presence? Pinch-runner? Spot CF? Cant be for but a few bucks. Good move?
As long as hes been around, I know next to nothing about the guy.
How does this move affect any other possible OF moves?
Happy Tuesday, BBI!
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In comment 14224410 moze1021 said:
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In comment 14224380 DanMetroMan said:
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if you throw out everything Pollock has done before the past 2 seasons... 103 wRC+ in 2017, 110 in 2018... Juan Lagares career wRC+... 85. Pollock wOBA the past 2 .340 and .338, Lagares career .290. So yeah, Pollock and his 110-ish games played is 100% a significant upgrade over Lagares or at least the Lagares we saw 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018.
OK..still don't see it as a significant upgrade, but maybe because I'm bullish on Lagares talent level...
Plus.. I'm super opposed to giving any offensive player more than $10M a year when Harper and Machado are out there...
It's been 14 years since we signed the best free agent.
1. Brodie has made clear they aren't going to be in on Harper so if that's your reasoning prepare to be very disappointed
2. 10 million a year is NOTHING in today's game. Brantley just got 16 million, McCutchen got 17.
Agreed that $10M a year is nothing! That's why I think they should throw 3 "nothings" together and go get Harper or Machado...
I think they are idiots if they don't.
I am very prepared to be disappointed...
The Mets are all about disappointments.
There really is nobody of note. Neither FG or MLBTR has a single CF outside of Pollock in their top 50 FA's.
Why arent we in on Marwin?
Ramos.
Brodie apparently downplaying the need for another bat so sounds like they are out on Pollock. Ugh.
Honestly I don't think it's a terribly bad decision. I know you don't like Pillar and I admit he's a very very low upside option so he's not my top choice, but let's use him as a low end comparison from the marco standpoint since we know he's on the block:
Pillar (29 years old)
- costs $3m for 1 year
- steamer projects 2.0 fwar, 90 wRC (in 141 games)
- he probably only returns a non-top 10 prospect
- averaged 148 games last 2 years
Pollock (31 years old)
- costs $40-60m for 2-4 years
- steamer projects 3.1 fwar, 108 wRC (in 146 games)
- costs a 2nd round pick (our last 3 second rd picks are all in our top 8 prospects right now)
- averaged 112.5 games last 2 years
Pollock costs a lot more and the injury prone-ness is scary, even though I would agree the difference with the bat is bigger than the numbers make it appear. For that reason my preference would be to find a higher upside option like the guys we discussed yesterday - Margot, JBJ, etc - but on the financial side I actually do think there could be better uses of $40-60m in FA than Pollock.
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Ramos.
Brodie apparently downplaying the need for another bat so sounds like they are out on Pollock. Ugh.
Honestly I don't think it's a terribly bad decision. I know you don't like Pillar and I admit he's a very very low upside option so he's not my top choice, but let's use him as a low end comparison from the marco standpoint since we know he's on the block:
Pillar (29 years old)
- costs $3m for 1 year
- steamer projects 2.0 fwar, 90 wRC (in 141 games)
- he probably only returns a non-top 10 prospect
- averaged 148 games last 2 years
Pollock (31 years old)
- costs $40-60m for 2-4 years
- steamer projects 3.1 fwar, 108 wRC (in 146 games)
- costs a 2nd round pick (our last 3 second rd picks are all in our top 8 prospects right now)
- averaged 112.5 games last 2 years
Pollock costs a lot more and the injury prone-ness is scary, even though I would agree the difference with the bat is bigger than the numbers make it appear. For that reason my preference would be to find a higher upside option like the guys we discussed yesterday - Margot, JBJ, etc - but on the financial side I actually do think there could be better uses of $40-60m in FA than Pollock.
Pillar is projected at 5.3 million by MLBTR.
Among MLB OF's Pillar posted the WORST OBP in baseball and 4th worst wRC+. He's a black hole who will be paid Hamilton money, without his speed AND cost prospects. We have Lagares.
Hitting from the right side is not the priority. Preference now, but not priority. MoreO added behind the plate than expected,means a more defensive CFbecomes more likely. Or a RF...
That only goes so far: Depressingly and inexplicably, the Mets seem to be out on both Bryce Harper and Manny Machado despite both representing a quantum leap in talent; theres also no news connecting them to other high-end free agents who could help. This is still a big-market team playing coy with its checks for no reason other than not wanting to cut them. And while Ramos is a good choice, fellow free agent Grandal mightve been the better movebut as the more expensive one, he was never going to fly.
But Ramos at least represents a safer and smarter choice than splurging on Realmuto (especially if, given the rumors floating around during the Winter Meetings, it was going to cost Noah Syndergaard, which wouldve been senseless). And adding him shows that Van Wagenen is committed to aiming for contention by proactively making moves instead of hoping for it if everything breaks right. In what promises to be a rough-and-tumble NL East, that should be a sign of relief for long-suffering Mets fans.
Grade: B+
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Brodie Van Wagenen hinted that A.J. Pollock may not be realistic for the Mets anymore. He responded to a Pollock question by saying Wilson Ramos fills the team's need for a middle-of-the-order right-handed bat, and that the club is still hopeful Yoenis Cespedes can help as well.
I'm not saying they shouldn't spend money or look to upgrade further, but there are probably better uses of money than Pollock (who I like).
I also don't think it's totally illegitimate to not want to give out a big multi-year deal to an OF'er until seeing what happens with Cespedes. Chalking up 20% of the payroll the next couple years as a sunk cost isn't ideal unless there's insurance money coming back.
I'm not saying they shouldn't spend money or look to upgrade further, but there are probably better uses of money than Pollock (who I like).
I also don't think it's totally illegitimate to not want to give out a big multi-year deal to an OF'er until seeing what happens with Cespedes. Chalking up 20% of the payroll the next couple years as a sunk cost isn't ideal unless there's insurance money coming back.
Well insurance IS picking up 75% of his salary between the 60 day mark in the season and when he plays. So they ARE getting back 75% of at least 2 months of salary so to cry pauper is silly. Remember, they have already "said" they likely aren't adding another high end RP which means it's a money issue. You don't think the Mets would want a Robertson or Miller at 5 million? That's what's sad.
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he stays healthy. And that's kind of important.
I'm not saying they shouldn't spend money or look to upgrade further, but there are probably better uses of money than Pollock (who I like).
I also don't think it's totally illegitimate to not want to give out a big multi-year deal to an OF'er until seeing what happens with Cespedes. Chalking up 20% of the payroll the next couple years as a sunk cost isn't ideal unless there's insurance money coming back.
Well insurance IS picking up 75% of his salary between the 60 day mark in the season and when he plays. So they ARE getting back 75% of at least 2 months of salary so to cry pauper is silly. Remember, they have already "said" they likely aren't adding another high end RP which means it's a money issue. You don't think the Mets would want a Robertson or Miller at 5 million? That's what's sad.
No argument from me on the sad state of their finances. I'll be as outraged as anyone if they don't at least increase spending over last year a little bit.
Re: reliever spending 2 things - first BVW gave himself some wiggle room saying they "probably wouldn't" get another one and unless I missed a quote about that today, his previous one was when they were still thinking about Grandal + Pollock, so conceivably he hand't yet realized how little he'd spend at C.
But even if they are out on a high end reliever - I think it's conceivable that signing a middle reliever like Adam Warren as well as a starter like Gio Gonzalez to 1 or 2 year deals is a better use of money than Pollock. Or a more versatile player like Marwin. And no pick surrendered.
I agree - the only knock (or rather question?) is if he can play CF competently. If so I think he's by far the best hitting fit/value out there. The only drawback I could see is just on his end if he'd prefer to go somewhere he can start every day.
If the Mets can deal Lagares, the money would be very close and the Red Sox may not ask for much more than Plawecki or Dom Smith since they're paying the luxury tax and need to unload salary.
I'd also be in on Porcello ad Bogaerts, who would both obviously cost significantly more.
ML offers to vets
M Reynolds, G Parra, A Romine, H Pence, CarGo, N Aoki, J Parker, B MILLER, D Valencia, C Villanueva,
FAs Id go after
N Cruz, D Dietrich, J Harrison, N Walker and M Gonzalez (SIGN ONEOF THEM!!!), TULO,
FAs idkeep apulse on/make a lowball offer on
D Span if super cheap one year deal, Y Solarte, A Garcia, DJ LeMahieu (3b), Moose, D Pomeranz, F Liriano, M PEREZ!!
Find out if Twins are really sick of Buxton!! Tons of trades to be made, but Id fill the holes first build the foundation before you lay bricks.
yeah sadly the end of an era for some of these guys. CarGo, Carlos Gomez, Adam Jones, Pence etc. It's getting near the end of the line. CarGo is slightly younger.
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Brodie Van Wagenen hinted that A.J. Pollock may not be realistic for the Mets anymore. He responded to a Pollock question by saying Wilson Ramos fills the team's need for a middle-of-the-order right-handed bat, and that the club is still hopeful Yoenis Cespedes can help as well.
Cespedes is a lost cause. Dont expect him to make any contributions as a Met.
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Brodie Van Wagenen hinted that A.J. Pollock may not be realistic for the Mets anymore. He responded to a Pollock question by saying Wilson Ramos fills the team's need for a middle-of-the-order right-handed bat, and that the club is still hopeful Yoenis Cespedes can help as well.
I'm happy with the signing but its pretty sad they view this as filling the middle of the order with a big bat.
This team still needs more. Why not sign Gonzalez who makes a ton of sense and another big reliever- Miller/ Robertson?
Someone will sign him, hopefully not the Mets.
If the Mets can trade Lagares they should get a legit CFer and leave Nimmo and Conforto @ the corners and if Cespedes comes back, Nimmo becomes a super sub.
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Source: Mets have signed RHP Zach Lee to a minor league deal.
The Dodgers former first round pick had a 3.65 ERA in 145.2 innings between AA and AAA last season in Rays organization.
Mike Puma
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When RH bat for OF is broached again, Van Wagenen brought up Cespedes.
What a fucking joke, relying on Cespedes do to ANYTHING this year. Just another justification for not going after Harper, Machado, etc.
The more things change, the more they stay the same...
Sigh...
As much as I hate that they will probably end up with lesser players than the guys mentioned above even if they don't break the bank, I do understand not wanting to impact the payroll down the line. Cano's $ was put on the credit card bill that's coming due in 2021-2023 and it's not going to be as easy to work around as many think - even if he's still playing halfway decent. Him and JDG alone those years are probably going to account for 1/3 of the total of this year's payroll. Plus Conforto, Thor, Nimmo, Diaz, Rosario, Matz arb years (and Familia). So the "nothing committed after 2021" is more than a little misleading.
I agree that he'd be a better option than spending more and giving up a prospect for Pillar.
No they don't.
They need another SP (not a shit bag like Vargas, but a legit #4 starter - not asking for an ace here and a good BP arm (preferably lefty) and some defensive role players.
I have said repeatedly I'd model the Mets after the SF Giants. They won 3 WS in 5 years without a "big bat".
I don't know they had a 30 HR hitter on any of those teams and no more than 2 players on any of the 3 WS teams had an OPS over .850.
They won with starting pitching, bullpen, and defense sprinkled in with clutch hitting.
The Mets need health, not a miracle to compete.
this Mets team is already better than 2015 if deGrom, Thor and Wheeler pitch like last year.
but they can't be done building.
I don't need $$$ FA acquisitions (though clearly I think both Machado and Harper would be good fits and one of them should absolutely be a Met, but we know that's not happening). Just continue to add smartly and don't force anything via trade.
Or Maybe Frazier is on the way out?
Sign him, and then trade him at the deadline for another Kilome.
Can be the Mets own version of Kelly Johnson.
Seriously, I think Droobs is fine, as a deep bench guy, but if he's starting significant games the Mets are likely picking top 10 in 2020.
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are in on Asdrubal Cabrera. Maybe Brodie really does want to trade McNeil.
Sign him, and then trade him at the deadline for another Kilome.
Can be the Mets own version of Kelly Johnson.
Seriously, I think Droobs is fine, as a deep bench guy, but if he's starting significant games the Mets are likely picking top 10 in 2020.
He actually had a nice year at the plate last year.
I just don't really see him being a fit here given the personnel we have on hand unless his market is completely non-existent.
Even as a bench player though, do you think he'll be happy sitting on the bench if McNeil and Rosario go into slumps? He played well enough last year that I'd imagine he thinks of himself as worthy of starting. We've already seen him complain and grumble in prior seasons when he doesn't get his way.
Of course, that's bolstered by a strong first half and a poor performance after being traded to Philly.
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are in on Asdrubal Cabrera. Maybe Brodie really does want to trade McNeil.
Or Maybe Frazier is on the way out?
Maybe. Would Cabrera command a similar salary to Frazier?
IMO, they are comparable players for next year, so if we can get an asset back for Frazier, and maybe even same a little money by bringing back Cabrera, I'd be ok with it.
A little extra money for a better OF or BP option would be welcomed.
As much as I hate that they will probably end up with lesser players than the guys mentioned above even if they don't break the bank, I do understand not wanting to impact the payroll down the line. Cano's $ was put on the credit card bill that's coming due in 2021-2023 and it's not going to be as easy to work around as many think - even if he's still playing halfway decent. Him and JDG alone those years are probably going to account for 1/3 of the total of this year's payroll. Plus Conforto, Thor, Nimmo, Diaz, Rosario, Matz arb years (and Familia). So the "nothing committed after 2021" is more than a little misleading.
Pathetic. James Dolan gets ripped to shreds but the Knicks are going to have a higher or comparable payroll to the Mets in the coming seasons. And they have a 12 man roster with a salary cap. The Knicks just cut Ron Baker and his guaranteed 5 million salary because he was the worst player on the team. Finances played zero part in the decision. The Mets would never make a similar move in a million years....
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not a shock but I'd hope they are open to a Gio Gonzalez or Miller/Robertson/Soria if they end up under 3 years.
As much as I hate that they will probably end up with lesser players than the guys mentioned above even if they don't break the bank, I do understand not wanting to impact the payroll down the line. Cano's $ was put on the credit card bill that's coming due in 2021-2023 and it's not going to be as easy to work around as many think - even if he's still playing halfway decent. Him and JDG alone those years are probably going to account for 1/3 of the total of this year's payroll. Plus Conforto, Thor, Nimmo, Diaz, Rosario, Matz arb years (and Familia). So the "nothing committed after 2021" is more than a little misleading.
Pathetic. James Dolan gets ripped to shreds but the Knicks are going to have a higher or comparable payroll to the Mets in the coming seasons. And they have a 12 man roster with a salary cap. The Knicks just cut Ron Baker and his guaranteed 5 million salary because he was the worst player on the team. Finances played zero part in the decision. The Mets would never make a similar move in a million years....
As NY sports fans, let's not let Dolan be the bar we set. He's a dirtbag and a terrible owner. The Wilpon's are just as bad owners, but at least they stay off Page 6....
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In comment 14225175 Eric on Li said:
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not a shock but I'd hope they are open to a Gio Gonzalez or Miller/Robertson/Soria if they end up under 3 years.
As much as I hate that they will probably end up with lesser players than the guys mentioned above even if they don't break the bank, I do understand not wanting to impact the payroll down the line. Cano's $ was put on the credit card bill that's coming due in 2021-2023 and it's not going to be as easy to work around as many think - even if he's still playing halfway decent. Him and JDG alone those years are probably going to account for 1/3 of the total of this year's payroll. Plus Conforto, Thor, Nimmo, Diaz, Rosario, Matz arb years (and Familia). So the "nothing committed after 2021" is more than a little misleading.
Pathetic. James Dolan gets ripped to shreds but the Knicks are going to have a higher or comparable payroll to the Mets in the coming seasons. And they have a 12 man roster with a salary cap. The Knicks just cut Ron Baker and his guaranteed 5 million salary because he was the worst player on the team. Finances played zero part in the decision. The Mets would never make a similar move in a million years....
As NY sports fans, let's not let Dolan be the bar we set. He's a dirtbag and a terrible owner. The Wilpon's are just as bad owners, but at least they stay off Page 6....
I want my owners to spend to win and hire the right people. Dolan does one of those things. The Wilpons do neither. I'd take Dolan over the Wilpons as Mets owner 10/10.
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not a shock but I'd hope they are open to a Gio Gonzalez or Miller/Robertson/Soria if they end up under 3 years.
As much as I hate that they will probably end up with lesser players than the guys mentioned above even if they don't break the bank, I do understand not wanting to impact the payroll down the line. Cano's $ was put on the credit card bill that's coming due in 2021-2023 and it's not going to be as easy to work around as many think - even if he's still playing halfway decent. Him and JDG alone those years are probably going to account for 1/3 of the total of this year's payroll. Plus Conforto, Thor, Nimmo, Diaz, Rosario, Matz arb years (and Familia). So the "nothing committed after 2021" is more than a little misleading.
Pathetic. James Dolan gets ripped to shreds but the Knicks are going to have a higher or comparable payroll to the Mets in the coming seasons. And they have a 12 man roster with a salary cap. The Knicks just cut Ron Baker and his guaranteed 5 million salary because he was the worst player on the team. Finances played zero part in the decision. The Mets would never make a similar move in a million years....
On that I totally agree - the Wilpons are a farce. MLB should have taken the team away from them years ago when they had the chance. My post was more analyzing from the bvw point of view where he has to make good decisions within his budget.
The Mets need health, not a miracle to compete.
this Mets team is already better than 2015 if deGrom, Thor and Wheeler pitch like last year.
but they can't be done building.
I don't need $$$ FA acquisitions (though clearly I think both Machado and Harper would be good fits and one of them should absolutely be a Met, but we know that's not happening). Just continue to add smartly and don't force anything via trade.
I agree with this. Right now I don't think it's unfair to say they are on par with the Nats, both ahead of the rest of the division. But they need to keep making moves because everyone else is going to do keep trying to improve too.
I also agree that this is already the best team they're entering a season with since 2016, and I actually think the construction is a little bit better (more athletic, more polished hitting approach, better on D) if they can avoid major injuries - which that team couldn't do. That's where continuing to add players can only help though. Especially on the pitching staff since you can never have too much depth.
I understand the Mets are too cheap and shortsighted to sign them...
But I completely disagree that they wouldnt want to be Mets... That's such a cop out to say that..
For one it's NY, two money talks.. and 3... They have Noah and Jake..who the heck wouldnt want to play on this team with those badasses....
For one glorious off-season 04-05 the Mets weren't the younger brothers of NY..they were the big boys...
It's time for that to happen again! Legit makes me depressed that ownership can't do it..
I want my owners to spend to win and hire the right people. Dolan does one of those things. The Wilpons do neither. I'd take Dolan over the Wilpons as Mets owner 10/10.
Switching team would be PERFECT for them...
Dolan would spend over his mistakes with no real cap...if you give a smart GM the flexibility to make big moves winning in MLB is easy...
The Wilpons would LOVE the excuse of a cap and would have decade long patience for a rebuild..