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NFT: Tuesday Mets Talk - Rajai Davis

Beezer : 12/18/2018 7:23 am
So the Mets invite him to spring training. Still a fast guy. Approaching 40.

What do we know? Seems relatively durable. Good vet presence? Pinch-runner? Spot CF? Can’t be for but a few bucks. Good move?

As long as he’s been around, I know next to nothing about the guy.

How does this move affect any other possible OF moves?

Happy Tuesday, BBI!
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This  
pjcas18 : 12/19/2018 11:49 am : link
"If you answer A you are a massive homer idiot."

is obviously sarcasm....calling out one person.
lol  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 11:49 am : link
typical Zgiants, makes some valid points then ranks Familia the #2 setup man, something not a single site I can find agrees with.
#1  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 11:49 am : link
setup man sorry.
MLBTR  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 11:53 am : link
had Familia 3rd best RP, FG's has him 4th, SB nation had him 5th, MLB.com 3rd
Already  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 11:56 am : link
bored but 2 more Sporting News 7th, USAtoday 4th
MLB.com  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 11:56 am : link
on Carpio

"Luis Carpio, 2B/SS, Mets' No. 17
Carpio's .219 average was the fifth worst among qualified hitters in the Class A Advanced Florida State League last season. He did, however, hit a career-high 12 homers and 21 doubles in the pitcher-friendly league, and there are quite a few signs that the 21-year-old is in store for more success moving forward. Specifically, Carpio had a surprisingly low .242 batting average on balls in play last season even though 52.2 percent of his contact was either a fly ball or line drive. He also struck out a reasonable 18.4 percent clip, had an equally reasonable 9.4 percent swinging-strike rate and walked 9.3 percent of the time."
RE: MLBTR  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 11:57 am : link
In comment 14226224 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
had Familia 3rd best RP, FG's has him 4th, SB nation had him 5th, MLB.com 3rd


This the stuff that drives me nuts. What does that have to do with what I said at all. At worst, it’s “one of the top” setup men but looking at 2018, he was better than Miller and Robertson based on fWAR. You could certainly make a case.
RE: LOL some people have limited brain capacity so I'll keep it  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14226211 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
simple.

Which would you rather have?

A: Machado, Kimbrel, Familia (and keep Kelenic and Dunn)
B: Cano, Diaz, Familia (and lose Kelenic and Dunn)

If you answer A you are a massive homer idiot.

that's the difference between not spending and "adding bodies".

Even if you still prefer Diaz to Kimbrel because you think based on one season he's better than Kimbrel and he's obviously younger. Then you still HAVE to prefer to add Machado and then can also trade Kelenic and Dunn for Diaz.

Some people cannot separate the Diaz and Cano transactions and they are absolutely separate transactions (or should be thought of that way by fans).


What kind of garbage hypothetical is that? So we are going to spend 300 million on Machado, 100 million on Kimbel and still sign Familia? Are you not factoring the Ramos signing and future moves in liu of those big signing? Also you said if I answer A I am an idiot and I’m prerty sure that’s the opposite of what you meant? Are you off and drinking today? Cheers buddy!
RE: RE: MLBTR  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14226235 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14226224 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


had Familia 3rd best RP, FG's has him 4th, SB nation had him 5th, MLB.com 3rd



This the stuff that drives me nuts. What does that have to do with what I said at all. At worst, it’s “one of the top” setup men but looking at 2018, he was better than Miller and Robertson based on fWAR. You could certainly make a case.


Because this is a routine pattern with you so you get called out. Instead of just saying one of the better RP's available you insist on going to

" arguably the best setup man on the market who can also close, " when really nobody I can see has made that argument and barring a shocker the salaries will represent that. If Familia gets the most money outside of Kimbrel I will say "ZGiants had a point". I'd be beyond shocked.
So you saying MLBTR had him ranked 3rd  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 12:04 pm : link
And me saying arguably the best and pointing out he might have been better than Robertson and Miller somehow makes you feel the need to jump in and tear apart the whole point and argument. Got it.
Anyway  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:04 pm : link
moving on. The bench needs help. Arguably the worst in baseball as we sit here now. McNeil and...? Yikes.
It's irrelevant if Familia is 1 or 10 though  
pjcas18 : 12/19/2018 12:04 pm : link
but ZG obviously tends to the superlatives when favorable for the Mets, but it's irrelevant.

It's a loser mentality to not pursue Machado.

Add Ramos to the list.

Who would you prefer (and I'll simplify):

A: Machado, Familia, Ramos
B: Cano, Familia, Ramos

RE: So you saying MLBTR had him ranked 3rd  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14226253 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
And me saying arguably the best and pointing out he might have been better than Robertson and Miller somehow makes you feel the need to jump in and tear apart the whole point and argument. Got it.


Cute Mr. fWAR... why was Ottavino omitted? And yeah the contracts generally represent the value of the player. You believe Familia will get more than the other names? Wanna place a wager Familia doesn't get the second best deal (Kimbrel obviously #1).
And it’s actually a pretty routine pattern for you  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 12:06 pm : link
To get hung up on unnecessary minutia and completely gloss over the discussion at hand.

Pj was claiming Familia was “just a body”. That’s a bunch of bullshit.
RE: It's irrelevant if Familia is 1 or 10 though  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:06 pm : link
In comment 14226255 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but ZG obviously tends to the superlatives when favorable for the Mets, but it's irrelevant.

It's a loser mentality to not pursue Machado.

Add Ramos to the list.

Who would you prefer (and I'll simplify):

A: Machado, Familia, Ramos
B: Cano, Familia, Ramos


The bold is the only reason I commented. Anyone else I would have ignored it.
RE: RE: So you saying MLBTR had him ranked 3rd  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14226260 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14226253 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


And me saying arguably the best and pointing out he might have been better than Robertson and Miller somehow makes you feel the need to jump in and tear apart the whole point and argument. Got it.



Cute Mr. fWAR... why was Ottavino omitted? And yeah the contracts generally represent the value of the player. You believe Familia will get more than the other names? Wanna place a wager Familia doesn't get the second best deal (Kimbrel obviously #1).


Wait werrent we talking about “arguably setup men”. Didn’t Ottavino take over closing duties last year? Also, he had less of a track record at that level than Familia so again.... arguably... And why do you keep bringing up Kimbrell?? We were talking about setup men. Is Kimbrell a setup man?
Current  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:08 pm : link
bench-

McNeil, Plawecki, TDA, Rajai Davis, Dom Smith... horrendous. Gotta add some depth
Lol  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:10 pm : link
talk about semantics. So Ottavino closed this year so he doesn't count, Familia ALSO closed this year. He counts. Britton didn't close for the Yankees, doesn't count, Robertson kinda closes so...
I love the Familia  
pjcas18 : 12/19/2018 12:10 pm : link
signing, your point was to avoid the best players available who cost the most in a plan to sign more players.

That is what is bullshit. That is spin to say the Mets don't want to pay for the value of the better free agents.

There is ZERO reason the Mets shouldn't have Machado and Familia and Ramos.

As soon as you start spinning it to say you prefer what they did (so far) to what they should do, is when you move from objective fan to blind homer.

And no contracts don’t always represent  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 12:10 pm : link
The value of players. Familia clearly took a home town discount to come back to the Mets and most of what I’ve seen suggests the Mets got a great deal out of it.
My  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:10 pm : link
man, I brought up Kimbrel to say obviously he's not part of the discussion. I've made that clear.
RE: Lol  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 14226269 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
talk about semantics. So Ottavino closed this year so he doesn't count, Familia ALSO closed this year. He counts. Britton didn't close for the Yankees, doesn't count, Robertson kinda closes so...


Uh... not really. I’m saying they all count but you can certainly make a case for Familia so what is the point of railroading the discussion?

The hilarious thing is you do the same thing the opposite way. You routinely use words like 100% not happening, ect. when you could say “not likely” .

Whatever.

RE: LOL some people have limited brain capacity so I'll keep it  
Shecky : 12/19/2018 12:13 pm : link
In comment 14226211 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
simple.

Which would you rather have?

A: Machado, Kimbrel, Familia (and keep Kelenic and Dunn)
B: Cano, Diaz, Familia (and lose Kelenic and Dunn)

If you answer A you are a massive homer idiot.

that's the difference between not spending and "adding bodies".

Even if you still prefer Diaz to Kimbrel because you think based on one season he's better than Kimbrel and he's obviously younger. Then you still HAVE to prefer to add Machado and then can also trade Kelenic and Dunn for Diaz.

Some people cannot separate the Diaz and Cano transactions and they are absolutely separate transactions (or should be thought of that way by fans).


It’s literally Kimbrel for all those years or familia and Ramos. Dollar wise. Without the LT commit. And keeping a 2nd and intl slot money. If I’m answering honestly, I take b in that scenario.
If  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:13 pm : link
the Mets signed Machado and/or Harper he'd be calling this a 100 win team and RAVING. This is why it's absurd. He likes any plan they have and anyone arguing for more is "greedy"
Nobody  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:13 pm : link
is arguing they should have gone for Kimbrel.
RE: My  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14226273 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
man, I brought up Kimbrel to say obviously he's not part of the discussion. I've made that clear.


Well I guess I misunderstood then. Why bring him up or his potential contract at all then?
To  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:14 pm : link
quote ZGiants "We don't need Andrew Miller, we have Parnell who is just as good"
RE: RE: My  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14226292 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 14226273 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


man, I brought up Kimbrel to say obviously he's not part of the discussion. I've made that clear.



Well I guess I misunderstood then. Why bring him up or his potential contract at all then?


Because he's the consensus #1 RP and will 100% be closing so the rankings all have HIM #1 but that's not relevant to Familia...
RE: If  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14226286 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the Mets signed Machado and/or Harper he'd be calling this a 100 win team and RAVING. This is why it's absurd. He likes any plan they have and anyone arguing for more is "greedy"


False. I wanted JD Martinez last year and didn’t think we were a playoff team unless everything went perfectly. If we signed Harper or Machado of course I would like it. No chance I’d have us at 100 wins or anything close to it, especially in liu of other moves it could potentially be a net neutral.
I also  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:16 pm : link
remember "4 years 36? I wouldn't have given him anywhere near that" also regarding Miller... because.. we had... Parnell.
Am  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:17 pm : link
I making this up? Or do you want to be honest on this one? I raved about Miller and wanted to be all in and you were adamant he wasn't worth it.
RE: To  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14226294 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
quote ZGiants "We don't need Andrew Miller, we have Parnell who is just as good"


Lol. When was this? 5 years ago? Please. Let’s not play this game Mr. Nimmo will NEVER be more than a 4th OF for years guy.
Boy this hurts, but I have to agree with Z  
Shecky : 12/19/2018 12:17 pm : link
Over the next three years, i think Familia will be the best RP, and certainly the best value, out of all available. Whether he is the best setup, third best etc. who cares. Team brought in a guy in a very fair contract who has proven he can handle NY, is young (relatively), and will prove to be one of the best setup men in Mets history. Can any of this be argued?

I assume none of the above is argued. Bottom line is Mets needed to fix a terrible pen. Can anyone say they have a problem with the 8th and 9th inning answers in the Mets pen for this upcoming season? I assume we can all agree on this answer - and how often can allof us here agree on anything?
Shocker  
figgy2989 : 12/19/2018 12:18 pm : link
Another Mets thread turning into a Dan and ZGiants cat fight. With all the quotes in the thread, I was hoping that maybe there was some new rumors/news. I should have known better.
The  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:19 pm : link
pen is still mediocre. The only lefty throws 85 and is full unproven and Gsellman is really oddly overrated by Mets fans given his 2016. EVERYONE said they needed to essentially overhaul the pen. 2 arms help but it's still below average.. as of last week everyone was still all about Andrew Miller, Mets bail and "meh the pen is fixed?" and as I said the bench is truly awful and that's with Juan Lagares currently the starting CF...
Again  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:20 pm : link
show me an MLB caliber bench using the current roster.... and this with knowing... Juan Lagares is the CF. Good luck.
RE: Shocker  
Shecky : 12/19/2018 12:21 pm : link
In comment 14226309 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Another Mets thread turning into a Dan and ZGiants cat fight. With all the quotes in the thread, I was hoping that maybe there was some new rumors/news. I should have known better.


HAAAAAAA
I can’t think if anyone on here who had the over on 12/19 being the first Z v D argument
.  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:22 pm : link
Dominic Smith.. a 1b only unless you want to include is comical play in LF aka ZERO defensive value career .210/.259/.406 with a RIDICULOUS 96 k's in 310 ab's, TDA since 2015 (coming off MAJOR surgery) .244/.297/.393... OPS+ of 85... below average catcher with ZERO defensive value at other positions and Gavin Cecchini... essentially missed the entire year career .571 MLB OPS over admittedly only 89 ab's, .709 OPS in 2017 in... the PCL. Wilmer is gone (arguably their best bench player), and 2 backup C's. That's really, really ugly on paper.
Oh  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:24 pm : link
and Rajai Davis, 38 years old, 3rd worst offensive player in baseball in 2018. They must add to this bench, internal options are horrendous. Even TJ Rivera.. dude is 30 years old and essentially didn't play in 2018.
RE: The  
Shecky : 12/19/2018 12:25 pm : link
In comment 14226314 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
pen is still mediocre. The only lefty throws 85 and is full unproven and Gsellman is really oddly overrated by Mets fans given his 2016. EVERYONE said they needed to essentially overhaul the pen. 2 arms help but it's still below average.. as of last week everyone was still all about Andrew Miller, Mets bail and "meh the pen is fixed?" and as I said the bench is truly awful and that's with Juan Lagares currently the starting CF...


Honest question. Are there five teams in mLB who have a better 1/2 combination for the next three years? Our problem has always been question marks at 1/2 and counting on too many question marks to fill slots 2-4 as of today, Gis 4th in the pen. And can easily be surpassed by several arms. Easily.
Lefty, yeah we need one. But if I am being honest, I would absolutely have zero problem if we add another arm and ride out a cheap Blevins arm for the year.
7th inning, Freeman coming up with tying run on 2nd with two out. I personally prefer Familia being called in to get him out than 95% of lefties just because he’s a lefty. I’m def old school there.
It’s just a bunch of ticky tack stuff that I just don’t understand  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 12:25 pm : link
Rather than join me in agreement that PJs comment about the players we acquired as being “just bodies” ( the far more ridiculous statement) Dan wants to call join him on the attack because I said “Familia is arguably the best setup man” which isn’t ridiculous at all. I don’t mind being called out, but at least be fair otherwise it just seems like it’s trying to pick on somebody.
RE: RE: The  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:27 pm : link
In comment 14226334 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 14226314 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


pen is still mediocre. The only lefty throws 85 and is full unproven and Gsellman is really oddly overrated by Mets fans given his 2016. EVERYONE said they needed to essentially overhaul the pen. 2 arms help but it's still below average.. as of last week everyone was still all about Andrew Miller, Mets bail and "meh the pen is fixed?" and as I said the bench is truly awful and that's with Juan Lagares currently the starting CF...



Honest question. Are there five teams in mLB who have a better 1/2 combination for the next three years? Our problem has always been question marks at 1/2 and counting on too many question marks to fill slots 2-4 as of today, Gis 4th in the pen. And can easily be surpassed by several arms. Easily.
Lefty, yeah we need one. But if I am being honest, I would absolutely have zero problem if we add another arm and ride out a cheap Blevins arm for the year.
7th inning, Freeman coming up with tying run on 2nd with two out. I personally prefer Familia being called in to get him out than 95% of lefties just because he’s a lefty. I’m def old school there.


Shecky.. Blevins is done. So no that's not an acceptable option. He 35 years old and posted a 4.96 FIP. He didn't even get lefties out this year (.786 OPS against) no contender goes into 2019 with Zamora/Blevins.
Last year  
Shecky : 12/19/2018 12:27 pm : link
g went into the year as the setup man. 3rdoption at worst case.

This season,he is AT BESt 4 in the pen. Could easily fall to 5 or 6. That’s how I’d measure the progress.
RE: It’s just a bunch of ticky tack stuff that I just don’t understand  
pjcas18 : 12/19/2018 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14226336 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Rather than join me in agreement that PJs comment about the players we acquired as being “just bodies” ( the far more ridiculous statement) Dan wants to call join him on the attack because I said “Familia is arguably the best setup man” which isn’t ridiculous at all. I don’t mind being called out, but at least be fair otherwise it just seems like it’s trying to pick on somebody.


It's probably because you are intentionally obtuse in an effort to be a unrepentant fanboy.

I never claimed Familia is "just a body" I have said repeatedly I love the signing. It's your approach I took issue with. You are justifing a shitty approach by the Mets.
Steamer  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:29 pm : link
projects Blevins to post a 4.59 FIP. Even Zamora who looked decent.. that's 9 innings with a mid 80's FB. Maybe he's successful but no Blevins/Zamora would likely mean 2 months into the season dealing prospects for some old LOOGY.
Blevins  
Shecky : 12/19/2018 12:30 pm : link
If he can be talked into a MiL deal, I’d do cartwheels. A cheap 2mm deal, I’d only be upset wasting a 40 on him. But I’d totally be fine if Blevins is our last arm in the pen.

Compare him to the typical bottom of the pen, loogy. If that’s the biggest hole on the roster, yeah I’m ok with it. I know I’m in the minority, not arguing it’s a good option. But I’d focus everywhere else first
RE: RE: It’s just a bunch of ticky tack stuff that I just don’t understand  
ZGiants98 : 12/19/2018 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14226348 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14226336 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Rather than join me in agreement that PJs comment about the players we acquired as being “just bodies” ( the far more ridiculous statement) Dan wants to call join him on the attack because I said “Familia is arguably the best setup man” which isn’t ridiculous at all. I don’t mind being called out, but at least be fair otherwise it just seems like it’s trying to pick on somebody.



It's probably because you are intentionally obtuse in an effort to be a unrepentant fanboy.

I never claimed Familia is "just a body" I have said repeatedly I love the signing. It's your approach I took issue with. You are justifing a shitty approach by the Mets.


I’ve suggested many different approaches to this offseason including going after Harper and Machado fuck you very much.
But  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:32 pm : link
they went into last year thinking Gsellman might be closer to his 2016 self. Instead he posted a 3.95 FIP, mediocre. He is what he is. Filler. Not being cruel but they could lose him tomorrow and it wouldn't register a blip
Well  
DanMetroMan : 12/19/2018 12:34 pm : link
he wouldn't be the "last arm" because they don't have someone who can consistently get lefties out. If Familia is your setup man, who do you trust in the 7th vs. Bryce Harper?
RE: Steamer  
Shecky : 12/19/2018 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14226352 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
projects Blevins to post a 4.59 FIP. Even Zamora who looked decent.. that's 9 innings with a mid 80's FB. Maybe he's successful but no Blevins/Zamora would likely mean 2 months into the season dealing prospects for some old LOOGY.


LOL
Love ya Dan, but I’d prefer some full disclosure from you on his steamer projection
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