This is repeated over and over on this message board as if it is a fact
Eli vs the field for better Qb to play in 2019 give me the field. Odell Beckham our pro bowl WR has our 2 longest TD passes all season
Let that sink in ....
The Giants save like 30million if they release Eli and Vernon .... Easy choice IMO, hopefully Eli takes the pressure off the organization and just retires At years end
I know it’s killing you but it comes a time .. Everything and Everybody has a shelf life
There's a groundswell for some reason for Foles. Even putting aside the obvious snarky comments about the aptitude of those thinking that's a good move, in a case like that, you get no savings at all.
Foles at $20M is more than the money you save from cutting Eli.
I don't know about you, but if my choice is between eli and foles, I'd rather have Eli.
I'd be on board with cutting Eli, drafting a QB if they feel he'll be a long-term replacement, and using the cap savings to sign OL or DL players.
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A new thread was definitely needed.
I know it’s killing you but it comes a time .. Everything and Everybody has a shelf life
Fantastic job. What are the options again? Anyone?
Maybe mark Sanchez or Geno Smith can bounce free!
Here's why he's the best option, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, based on the options available.
Manning is making 23 million next year, but only counts 17.5 against the cap, in the FINAL year (big money year) of his contract. The way QB contracts have evolved since that deal was written, 23 million is not even first year money (Dak is seeking 28 million per year, just as a reference point).
Now that that's out of the way, you want to draft his replacement, right? That's where this is going. So you have five years of cost controlled QB play before the above mentioned second contract of ridiculous money.
Now, here's why you trot Eli out there next year:
1. You need a veteran QB on the roster if you are drafting a rookie.
2. Even signing journeymen QB's costs a good amount of money. Eli would leave 6 million or so in dead money, so you have to add that to whatever said journeyman costs, let's say we can sign one for 10 million just to throw a cheap option out there. So you have that 10 million, PLUS Eli's 6 million in dead money tied up in the postion. Is the savings of 7 million really worth the drop off from Eli Manning to say Sam Bradford, or Tyrod Taylor?
Also the cap is going up another 10 million next year. Compared to what other teams have alloted for and invested in the QB position, 23 million, believe it or not, isn't actually that bad.
3. Let's go back to having a cost controlled rookie QB for five years. The team, and especially the O-line are a work in progress. Why not throw Eli out there another year while they continue to build the line, get the rest of the roster in order, and then you either have rookie next year to come in late in the season when things have solidified, OR, you let Eli play out his contract, extend him one year to get his salary down and just push off that placeholder position a little further if you're drafting a QB in 2020, and you still have an all around better situation for the new young QB when he comes in, vs. the sh-t show he'd be exposed to right now?
Having an all around better roster will maximize those five years of your cost controlled rookie, rather than waste not only his development, but also his five years wasting away with a poor roster. Fix the roster. Period.
You need a succession plan. That would be a logical and reasonable one for the reasons I've outlined.
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In comment 14224778 dep026 said:
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A new thread was definitely needed.
I know it’s killing you but it comes a time .. Everything and Everybody has a shelf life
Fantastic job. What are the options again? Anyone?
Maybe mark Sanchez or Geno Smith can bounce free!
You always have a option ..these people get paid a ton of money to make these choices
There's a groundswell for some reason for Foles. Even putting aside the obvious snarky comments about the aptitude of those thinking that's a good move, in a case like that, you get no savings at all.
Foles at $20M is more than the money you save from cutting Eli.
I don't know about you, but if my choice is between eli and foles, I'd rather have Eli.
I'd be on board with cutting Eli, drafting a QB if they feel he'll be a long-term replacement, and using the cap savings to sign OL or DL players.
I’m not hoping for Foles but who is to say he won’t be better then Eli next season?
In a case like that, what possible reason would there be to sign Foles?
I’m just saying I would cut them both
Impossible? No. But, the decision involves playing the percentages and I'd wager they roll Eli out there.
Like I said, great job.
I lost my fuckin lunch at that stroke of genius.
But let's keep trotting him out there, getting swept up in nostalgia when Eli has a good game once every five weeks, have 8 or less wins, counting down when we are officially eliminated from the playoffs, analyzing the expected draft position, etc, etc, etc.
Welcome to the circular error of football - the New York Football Giants.
Jacoby Brissett!!
But let's keep trotting him out there, getting swept up in nostalgia when Eli has a good game once every five weeks, have 8 or less wins, counting down when we are officially eliminated from the playoffs, analyzing the expected draft position, etc, etc, etc.
Welcome to the circular error of football - the New York Football Giants.
So you're saying its Eli's fault the team has sucked for years?
In a case like that, what possible reason would there be to sign Foles?
For better QB play which is the goal.. If there is a guy who can give us that in 2019 and beyond the Giants should be on that line of thinking. I’m of the belief that there are options out there
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saying he will be?
In a case like that, what possible reason would there be to sign Foles?
For better QB play which is the goal.. If there is a guy who can give us that in 2019 and beyond the Giants should be on that line of thinking. I’m of the belief that there are options out there
What has Foles did in the last 4 years to suggest he is the best man for the job at over 20 million?
There's a groundswell for some reason for Foles. Even putting aside the obvious snarky comments about the aptitude of those thinking that's a good move, in a case like that, you get no savings at all.
Foles at $20M is more than the money you save from cutting Eli.
I don't know about you, but if my choice is between eli and foles, I'd rather have Eli.
I'd be on board with cutting Eli, drafting a QB if they feel he'll be a long-term replacement, and using the cap savings to sign OL or DL players.
^^^Agree.
Bridgewater? Taylor? Brissett? Flacco? Do you really think its worth bringing in one of them to learn a new system playing behind this OL?
A rookie? Who? Where is NYG drafting? How do you ensure he will be available when NYG is on the clock?
The only thing I would consider strongly right now is trading for Carr (OAK). And I wouldn't give more than a 2nd round pick for him.
Philly fucked over their season by rushing Wentz back to the lineup because it was clear Foles wasn't even adequate. And we'd be prudent in giving the guy $20M??
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In comment 14224793 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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saying he will be?
In a case like that, what possible reason would there be to sign Foles?
For better QB play which is the goal.. If there is a guy who can give us that in 2019 and beyond the Giants should be on that line of thinking. I’m of the belief that there are options out there
What has Foles did in the last 4 years to suggest he is the best man for the job at over 20 million?
I never said I wanted Foles so don’t put words in my mouth .. However At this point in there careers I do think Foles is better then Eli
Eli is looking to be the best option for 2019,
MOOPS : 11:51 am : link : reply
so he'll most likely be back.
We'll likely be drafting too low to get a franchise QB in the draft without giving up boku draft picks, if one is even available.
And the FAs that will probably be available will be recycled failures, the best of whom will demand a premium and will not be a solution.
Gotta face reality.
Here's why he's the best option, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, based on the options available.
Manning is making 23 million next year, but only counts 17.5 against the cap, in the FINAL year (big money year) of his contract. The way QB contracts have evolved since that deal was written, 23 million is not even first year money (Dak is seeking 28 million per year, just as a reference point).
Now that that's out of the way, you want to draft his replacement, right? That's where this is going. So you have five years of cost controlled QB play before the above mentioned second contract of ridiculous money.
Now, here's why you trot Eli out there next year:
1. You need a veteran QB on the roster if you are drafting a rookie.
2. Even signing journeymen QB's costs a good amount of money. Eli would leave 6 million or so in dead money, so you have to add that to whatever said journeyman costs, let's say we can sign one for 10 million just to throw a cheap option out there. So you have that 10 million, PLUS Eli's 6 million in dead money tied up in the postion. Is the savings of 7 million really worth the drop off from Eli Manning to say Sam Bradford, or Tyrod Taylor?
Also the cap is going up another 10 million next year. Compared to what other teams have alloted for and invested in the QB position, 23 million, believe it or not, isn't actually that bad.
3. Let's go back to having a cost controlled rookie QB for five years. The team, and especially the O-line are a work in progress. Why not throw Eli out there another year while they continue to build the line, get the rest of the roster in order, and then you either have rookie next year to come in late in the season when things have solidified, OR, you let Eli play out his contract, extend him one year to get his salary down and just push off that placeholder position a little further if you're drafting a QB in 2020, and you still have an all around better situation for the new young QB when he comes in, vs. the sh-t show he'd be exposed to right now?
Having an all around better roster will maximize those five years of your cost controlled rookie, rather than waste not only his development, but also his five years wasting away with a poor roster. Fix the roster. Period.
You need a succession plan. That would be a logical and reasonable one for the reasons I've outlined.
This should be stickied. We can end all these threads daily if people would read this post.
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of mediocrity. Stuck in it. And what is the common denominator through it all? Eli Manning.
But let's keep trotting him out there, getting swept up in nostalgia when Eli has a good game once every five weeks, have 8 or less wins, counting down when we are officially eliminated from the playoffs, analyzing the expected draft position, etc, etc, etc.
Welcome to the circular error of football - the New York Football Giants.
So you're saying its Eli's fault the team has sucked for years?
Obviously not all of it, but a fair portion. His job responsibility as the franchise QB carries a big burden - lift the play of others, make plays, be consistent, win close games, etc.
And for a number of years he just hasn't been up to the task.
Running it back with Eli to go 6-10 again is foolish. So it's exactly what I expect this organization to do.
Bridgewater? Taylor? Brissett? Flacco? Do you really think its worth bringing in one of them to learn a new system playing behind this OL?
A rookie? Who? Where is NYG drafting? How do you ensure he will be available when NYG is on the clock?
The only thing I would consider strongly right now is trading for Carr (OAK). And I wouldn't give more than a 2nd round pick for him.
Obviously not all of it, but a fair portion. His job responsibility as the franchise QB carries a big burden - lift the play of others, make plays, be consistent, win close games, etc.
And for a number of years he just hasn't been up to the task.
Ok fair enough. So answer this honestly, since we are using YOUR words and opinions...
Why didnt the Chargers get rid of Rivers before this year? Because what I am about to tell you is all facts.
1 playoff appearence in the 2010s.
Led the NFL in INTs 2x
2015-2016 they won a combined 9 games as well.
So wouldnt or shouldnt they have replaced Rivers as well?
And actually seeing they are teetering on the brink of missing the playoffs, success is a loose definition.
in the absence of a top D, trotting out a strategy of having a couple mobile QB's makes very little sense.
Is there even a historical reference that can show this stockpiling of mobile QB's is viable?
Like...
Solder
martin
Omameh
vernon....
Amirite?
And actually seeing they are teetering on the brink of missing the playoffs, success is a loose definition.
in the absence of a top D, trotting out a strategy of having a couple mobile QB's makes very little sense.
Is there even a historical reference that can show this stockpiling of mobile QB's is viable?
Sean has accurately pointed out several times that Eli has become a dark cloud over the entire organization. As long as they are building around him they are spinning their wheels.
The guy is 38 and costs over $20M. The offense has been piss poor with him running it. Keeping him at this point is nothing more than nostalgia and inertia.
Here's an idea. What if they drafted other players, lets just say an edge rusher in the first round. Lets just say they get a starting tackle in the 2nd. Lets just say they sign a productive FA. You think the team is still a 5 win team?
I mean with a shitty roster, we have 5 wins. I guess improving the talent means no growth in the win column?
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For those that want him gone...who is the replacement?
Bridgewater? Taylor? Brissett? Flacco? Do you really think its worth bringing in one of them to learn a new system playing behind this OL?
A rookie? Who? Where is NYG drafting? How do you ensure he will be available when NYG is on the clock?
The only thing I would consider strongly right now is trading for Carr (OAK). And I wouldn't give more than a 2nd round pick for him.
Anyone with upside. I do not care if they are worse than Eli to start 2019, but if if by the end of the year they could be better than Eli, I want that QB. I do not believe Eli can win a playoff game at this point in his career without a dominant roster around him. We will not have a dominant roster in 2019. I think the recipe for a playoff team to defeat him is simple. Sell out to stop the run and pressure him up the middle. He can win against mediocre teams and situationally when we have a lead. I think we have seen Eli's ceiling and it is not good enough anymore.
"Anyone with upside" yet you don't give a name. Sound very Cleveland Brown-ish
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In comment 14224816 Sy'56 said:
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For those that want him gone...who is the replacement?
Bridgewater? Taylor? Brissett? Flacco? Do you really think its worth bringing in one of them to learn a new system playing behind this OL?
A rookie? Who? Where is NYG drafting? How do you ensure he will be available when NYG is on the clock?
The only thing I would consider strongly right now is trading for Carr (OAK). And I wouldn't give more than a 2nd round pick for him.
Anyone with upside. I do not care if they are worse than Eli to start 2019, but if if by the end of the year they could be better than Eli, I want that QB. I do not believe Eli can win a playoff game at this point in his career without a dominant roster around him. We will not have a dominant roster in 2019. I think the recipe for a playoff team to defeat him is simple. Sell out to stop the run and pressure him up the middle. He can win against mediocre teams and situationally when we have a lead. I think we have seen Eli's ceiling and it is not good enough anymore.
"Anyone with upside" yet you don't give a name. Sound very Cleveland Brown-ish
The same Cleveland Browns that have more wins then the Giants with a rookie QB
And actually seeing they are teetering on the brink of missing the playoffs, success is a loose definition.
in the absence of a top D, trotting out a strategy of having a couple mobile QB's makes very little sense.
Is there even a historical reference that can show this stockpiling of mobile QB's is viable?
You think running for 230 yards a game isn't helping their defense?
Compared to what we're doing, Baltimore this year absolutely is success.
And no you aren't going to find historical reference because the game has changed and no one has tried it. Looking backwards is what the Giants are doing...and where is that getting them?
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Some people seem to be missing the point that it's better to go 5-11 with Lauletta or someone else than it is to go 6-10 with Eli.
Here's an idea. What if they drafted other players, lets just say an edge rusher in the first round. Lets just say they get a starting tackle in the 2nd. Lets just say they sign a productive FA. You think the team is still a 5 win team?
I mean with a shitty roster, we have 5 wins. I guess improving the talent means no growth in the win column?
Yes this is still a 5 win team, because the coaching sucks and the QB is shot.
It's the NFL, so maybe it can be a 7 or even a 9 win team if the stars align. But nothing real is being built here. This is an incompetent group with no plan.
The same Cleveland Browns that have more wins then the Giants with a rookie QB
And managed to miraculously get a new QB and a quality RB in the SAME DRAFT.
2020 are you for real? And hasn’t the oline been better since the 49er game? How are the Texans the 2 seed as we speak with there offensive line ranked worse then the giants or then Vikings who are the 6th seed and the titans who are 8-6?sick of the oline excuse for how poor this quarterback has played
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In comment 14224833 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 14224816 Sy'56 said:
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For those that want him gone...who is the replacement?
Bridgewater? Taylor? Brissett? Flacco? Do you really think its worth bringing in one of them to learn a new system playing behind this OL?
A rookie? Who? Where is NYG drafting? How do you ensure he will be available when NYG is on the clock?
The only thing I would consider strongly right now is trading for Carr (OAK). And I wouldn't give more than a 2nd round pick for him.
Anyone with upside. I do not care if they are worse than Eli to start 2019, but if if by the end of the year they could be better than Eli, I want that QB. I do not believe Eli can win a playoff game at this point in his career without a dominant roster around him. We will not have a dominant roster in 2019. I think the recipe for a playoff team to defeat him is simple. Sell out to stop the run and pressure him up the middle. He can win against mediocre teams and situationally when we have a lead. I think we have seen Eli's ceiling and it is not good enough anymore.
"Anyone with upside" yet you don't give a name. Sound very Cleveland Brown-ish
The same Cleveland Browns that have more wins then the Giants with a rookie QB
After how many QBs with "upside"? 20? You want to go through that?