This is repeated over and over on this message board as if it is a fact
Eli vs the field for better Qb to play in 2019 give me the field. Odell Beckham our pro bowl WR has our 2 longest TD passes all season
Let that sink in ....
The Giants save like 30million if they release Eli and Vernon .... Easy choice IMO, hopefully Eli takes the pressure off the organization and just retires At years end
Here's why he's the best option, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, based on the options available.
Manning is making 23 million next year, but only counts 17.5 against the cap, in the FINAL year (big money year) of his contract. The way QB contracts have evolved since that deal was written, 23 million is not even first year money (Dak is seeking 28 million per year, just as a reference point).
Now that that's out of the way, you want to draft his replacement, right? That's where this is going. So you have five years of cost controlled QB play before the above mentioned second contract of ridiculous money.
Now, here's why you trot Eli out there next year:
1. You need a veteran QB on the roster if you are drafting a rookie.
2. Even signing journeymen QB's costs a good amount of money. Eli would leave 6 million or so in dead money, so you have to add that to whatever said journeyman costs, let's say we can sign one for 10 million just to throw a cheap option out there. So you have that 10 million, PLUS Eli's 6 million in dead money tied up in the postion. Is the savings of 7 million really worth the drop off from Eli Manning to say Sam Bradford, or Tyrod Taylor?
Also the cap is going up another 10 million next year. Compared to what other teams have alloted for and invested in the QB position, 23 million, believe it or not, isn't actually that bad.
3. Let's go back to having a cost controlled rookie QB for five years. The team, and especially the O-line are a work in progress. Why not throw Eli out there another year while they continue to build the line, get the rest of the roster in order, and then you either have rookie next year to come in late in the season when things have solidified, OR, you let Eli play out his contract, extend him one year to get his salary down and just push off that placeholder position a little further if you're drafting a QB in 2020, and you still have an all around better situation for the new young QB when he comes in, vs. the sh-t show he'd be exposed to right now?
Having an all around better roster will maximize those five years of your cost controlled rookie, rather than waste not only his development, but also his five years wasting away with a poor roster. Fix the roster. Period.
You need a succession plan. That would be a logical and reasonable one for the reasons I've outlined.
This.
Best to sign Eli to long term extension, then by miracle chance one pops up and obtainable past the 5 yrs or when eli decides to retire
Flacco beat Pittsburgh. Jackson was forced to throw and couldn't do it.
It is funny some of the teams that supposedly have a plan, the Ravens and Browns are still mediocre entities that either aren't making the playoffs or are going to sneak in and get beat. But they have a plan!!
The plan is - build a solid D. It is what took us to the playoffs in 2016. It is what will take Baltimore there (if they get in). It is what will get Dallas the division. It is what got Jacksonville to the playoffs.
Speaking of that, how about that great debate that we should follow the Jax model since they would be front-runners for some time.....
Go Terps : 12:50 pm : link : reply
Some people seem to be missing the point that it's better to go 5-11 with Lauletta or someone else than it is to go 6-10 with Eli.
Sean has accurately pointed out several times that Eli has become a dark cloud over the entire organization. As long as they are building around him they are spinning their wheels.
The guy is 38 and costs over $20M. The offense has been piss poor with him running it. Keeping him at this point is nothing more than nostalgia and inertia.
Ok fair enough. So answer this honestly, since we are using YOUR words and opinions...
Why didnt the Chargers get rid of Rivers before this year? Because what I am about to tell you is all facts.
1 playoff appearence in the 2010s.
Led the NFL in INTs 2x
2015-2016 they won a combined 9 games as well.
So wouldnt or shouldnt they have replaced Rivers as well?
Interesting point, but no. Rivers has still looked the part. So it's really an eye test valuation. Plus, that organization has been dealing with that dark, gray cloud with all of the relocation issues. So there was this weight of peripheral issues dragging that team down.
And look at his numbers, even with the INTs you cited, have been good from a Rating/QBR standpoint. Over that time he's been completing about 65%+ of his passes, over 2:1 TD/INT ratio, and doing his part scoring points.
Lat year, as I'm guessing you know, the Chargers were snake bitten by inept FG kicking. They lost three of the first five games due to their kicker who missed some gimmes. The could have easily been 12-4 last year.
Now that they have settled in LA, we clearly see that Rivers still has plenty left in the tank. So it was more than wise to keep him.
He isn't George Washington. If anything at this point he's Fidel Castro...a shell of what he once was and hanging on so long until it's practically easy to forget the good days.
It is time to move on. Past time.
He isn't George Washington. If anything at this point he's Fidel Castro...a shell of what he once was and hanging on so long until it's practically easy to forget the good days.
It is time to move on. Past time.
agree
and why are people against seeing what the team would look like with a different style QB --- maybe it works? we know this currently doesnt, and even if it improved... it improved to 7-8 wins with a 38yr old qb. that doesnt help.
ii dont think we can properly assess some of our OL without giving a different QB with more mobility a shot.
people complain about so much sh%t but are cool to just keep repeating the same insanity at a high cost.
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In comment 14224852 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 14224833 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 14224816 Sy'56 said:
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For those that want him gone...who is the replacement?
Bridgewater? Taylor? Brissett? Flacco? Do you really think its worth bringing in one of them to learn a new system playing behind this OL?
A rookie? Who? Where is NYG drafting? How do you ensure he will be available when NYG is on the clock?
The only thing I would consider strongly right now is trading for Carr (OAK). And I wouldn't give more than a 2nd round pick for him.
Anyone with upside. I do not care if they are worse than Eli to start 2019, but if if by the end of the year they could be better than Eli, I want that QB. I do not believe Eli can win a playoff game at this point in his career without a dominant roster around him. We will not have a dominant roster in 2019. I think the recipe for a playoff team to defeat him is simple. Sell out to stop the run and pressure him up the middle. He can win against mediocre teams and situationally when we have a lead. I think we have seen Eli's ceiling and it is not good enough anymore.
"Anyone with upside" yet you don't give a name. Sound very Cleveland Brown-ish
The same Cleveland Browns that have more wins then the Giants with a rookie QB
After how many QBs with "upside"? 20? You want to go through that?
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Ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous.
He isn't George Washington. If anything at this point he's Fidel Castro...a shell of what he once was and hanging on so long until it's practically easy to forget the good days.
It is time to move on. Past time.
agree
and why are people against seeing what the team would look like with a different style QB --- maybe it works? we know this currently doesnt, and even if it improved... it improved to 7-8 wins with a 38yr old qb. that doesnt help.
ii dont think we can properly assess some of our OL without giving a different QB with more mobility a shot.
people complain about so much sh%t but are cool to just keep repeating the same insanity at a high cost.
Why are they against it? If the next Qb comes in and the offense starts to improve drastically...who looks worse all of the sudden?
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In comment 14224816 Sy'56 said:
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For those that want him gone...who is the replacement?
Bridgewater? Taylor? Brissett? Flacco? Do you really think its worth bringing in one of them to learn a new system playing behind this OL?
A rookie? Who? Where is NYG drafting? How do you ensure he will be available when NYG is on the clock?
The only thing I would consider strongly right now is trading for Carr (OAK). And I wouldn't give more than a 2nd round pick for him.
Anyone with upside. I do not care if they are worse than Eli to start 2019, but if if by the end of the year they could be better than Eli, I want that QB. I do not believe Eli can win a playoff game at this point in his career without a dominant roster around him. We will not have a dominant roster in 2019. I think the recipe for a playoff team to defeat him is simple. Sell out to stop the run and pressure him up the middle. He can win against mediocre teams and situationally when we have a lead. I think we have seen Eli's ceiling and it is not good enough anymore.
"Anyone with upside" yet you don't give a name. Sound very Cleveland Brown-ish
NYG is in a very tough spot, no denying that. But I want to go in to 2019 with the best man available for the job while Barkley and Beckham are in the prime. Right now, other than a trade, I think that is going to be Manning.
I've had thoughts about Tyrod Taylor but man, he was tough to watch this season.
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Ok fair enough. So answer this honestly, since we are using YOUR words and opinions...
Why didnt the Chargers get rid of Rivers before this year? Because what I am about to tell you is all facts.
1 playoff appearence in the 2010s.
Led the NFL in INTs 2x
2015-2016 they won a combined 9 games as well.
So wouldnt or shouldnt they have replaced Rivers as well?
Interesting point, but no. Rivers has still looked the part. So it's really an eye test valuation. Plus, that organization has been dealing with that dark, gray cloud with all of the relocation issues. So there was this weight of peripheral issues dragging that team down.
And look at his numbers, even with the INTs you cited, have been good from a Rating/QBR standpoint. Over that time he's been completing about 65%+ of his passes, over 2:1 TD/INT ratio, and doing his part scoring points.
Lat year, as I'm guessing you know, the Chargers were snake bitten by inept FG kicking. They lost three of the first five games due to their kicker who missed some gimmes. The could have easily been 12-4 last year.
Now that they have settled in LA, we clearly see that Rivers still has plenty left in the tank. So it was more than wise to keep him.
From 2014-2016 - Eli was top 5 in TDs and Yards
He had no run game
His STs were poor
His defense outside of 2016 was poor as well in the last 7 years
You see where I am going with this? You're saying there relocation issues, kicking issues, etc.... I can say the same thing about Eli in other areas as well.
Heres what happened with rivers. They got a running game. Gordon has been very good, which you and I can agree upon. They got a pass rush. Ingram, Bosa, ar very good players. jartavis Brown is a good young LB. So was Perryman. all very good picks. Derwin James has bolstered their secondary. Okung was a great pickup at tackle.
They surrounded him with what he needed so he could thrive. And he is playing great. But he couldnt perform this way unless they made all those moves.
The Giants needed to do this and our previous GM tried, but ultimately failed. Eli can still eb a winner. He doesnt need all-pros at every spot. But we needed to hit on some pieces and have them become productive. They havent. This years class is off to a good start. But we are more than just a Qb away from contending from the playoffs...
and thats been my contention the whole time. If the QB in round 1 doesnt fit.... keep getting better in the areas where we need a lot of help.
Even with Mayfield, they have a tough division to advance out of.
I'll bring up Jacksonville again. Last year, people said they would be a force for years to come because they have built their team "correctly".
Can the Browns even have a year at .500 before people label them a success? Heck, the Giants are looked at as abject failures, without any semblance of a plan with nearly the same record.
This is what I and others mean when we say there is no plan. The timing simply doesn't line up for what the Giants are trying to accomplish. The cost is steep: the second half of Eli's career was completely destroyed, and the prime years of Barkley and Beckham are at risk of being wasted (much of Beckham's already has been).
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isn't successful because of Jackson. They are successful because they have a top 5 D.
And actually seeing they are teetering on the brink of missing the playoffs, success is a loose definition.
in the absence of a top D, trotting out a strategy of having a couple mobile QB's makes very little sense.
Is there even a historical reference that can show this stockpiling of mobile QB's is viable?
You think running for 230 yards a game isn't helping their defense?
Compared to what we're doing, Baltimore this year absolutely is success.
And no you aren't going to find historical reference because the game has changed and no one has tried it. Looking backwards is what the Giants are doing...and where is that getting them?
Baltimore is in the hunt bc they have statistically the best defense in the league. Jackson and his 10 completions per game aren’t the reason why they’re in the hunt for a WC. If they actually had competent QB play, they’d have a shot at a ring.
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NYG is in a very tough spot, no denying that. But I want to go in to 2019 with the best man available for the job while Barkley and Beckham are in the prime.
This is what I and others mean when we say there is no plan. The timing simply doesn't line up for what the Giants are trying to accomplish. The cost is steep: the second half of Eli's career was completely destroyed, and the prime years of Barkley and Beckham are at risk of being wasted (much of Beckham's already has been).
Just because you say there isnt a plan, doesnt mean there isnt one.
You have stressed for years that you can find Qbs in later rounds and play them only on their rookie contract and letting them go. Maybe the plan is to build the trenches and when the time comes for a QB, then fill teh void.
I mean what good is a new QB if the the OL and defense are as bad as ours are now?
I know I didn't say that. I said they had 7-9 written all over them this year. And even that was an overestimation. Bringing in Coughlin was a mistake - he rested on last year's laurels and has paid for it.
If Eli takes them on a run will we have a kiss the ring thread so everyone can bend the knee and pay homage to the GOAT Eli Manning? I hope it happens. It probably won't, but I hope it does.
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Wish in one hand, sh-t in the other and see which one gets filled first.
Here's why he's the best option, and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, based on the options available.
Manning is making 23 million next year, but only counts 17.5 against the cap, in the FINAL year (big money year) of his contract. The way QB contracts have evolved since that deal was written, 23 million is not even first year money (Dak is seeking 28 million per year, just as a reference point).
Now that that's out of the way, you want to draft his replacement, right? That's where this is going. So you have five years of cost controlled QB play before the above mentioned second contract of ridiculous money.
Now, here's why you trot Eli out there next year:
1. You need a veteran QB on the roster if you are drafting a rookie.
2. Even signing journeymen QB's costs a good amount of money. Eli would leave 6 million or so in dead money, so you have to add that to whatever said journeyman costs, let's say we can sign one for 10 million just to throw a cheap option out there. So you have that 10 million, PLUS Eli's 6 million in dead money tied up in the postion. Is the savings of 7 million really worth the drop off from Eli Manning to say Sam Bradford, or Tyrod Taylor?
Also the cap is going up another 10 million next year. Compared to what other teams have alloted for and invested in the QB position, 23 million, believe it or not, isn't actually that bad.
3. Let's go back to having a cost controlled rookie QB for five years. The team, and especially the O-line are a work in progress. Why not throw Eli out there another year while they continue to build the line, get the rest of the roster in order, and then you either have rookie next year to come in late in the season when things have solidified, OR, you let Eli play out his contract, extend him one year to get his salary down and just push off that placeholder position a little further if you're drafting a QB in 2020, and you still have an all around better situation for the new young QB when he comes in, vs. the sh-t show he'd be exposed to right now?
Having an all around better roster will maximize those five years of your cost controlled rookie, rather than waste not only his development, but also his five years wasting away with a poor roster. Fix the roster. Period.
You need a succession plan. That would be a logical and reasonable one for the reasons I've outlined.
This should be stickied. We can end all these threads daily if people would read this post.
I was thinking the same except these are all nothing more than emotional rants and logic be damned.
dep...I've never said to only draft QBs late. I'm fine drafting them in the first round. The issue I have is with paying the crazy franchise QB contract. I've said that a million times.
dep...I've never said to only draft QBs late. I'm fine drafting them in the first round. The issue I have is with paying the crazy franchise QB contract. I've said that a million times.
Ok, I apologize. I misunderstood about the round part.
NYG is in a very tough spot, no denying that. But I want to go in to 2019 with the best man available for the job while Barkley and Beckham are in the prime. Right now, other than a trade, I think that is going to be Manning.
I've had thoughts about Tyrod Taylor but man, he was tough to watch this season.
The Bengals, Raiders, Falcons and Bucs. With Flacco, they beat Tennessee and Pittsburgh.
I'm failing to see where Jackson makes them better, either in his stats, or in their overall performance.
I'm pretty sure they would win the games they have with Jackson if Flacco was there - not sure the same can be said on the other side of the coin. Jackson will have to throw the ball to beat even an average D. The one he faced , he lost.
Even with Mayfield, they have a tough division to advance out of.
I'll bring up Jacksonville again. Last year, people said they would be a force for years to come because they have built their team "correctly".
Can the Browns even have a year at .500 before people label them a success? Heck, the Giants are looked at as abject failures, without any semblance of a plan with nearly the same record.
I love Eli, and supported him after the Minnesota and Washington games back in 2007, because there were glimpses of greatness - time to move on, should have after last year.
It isn't about who looks to be best, it is about proving it. The Giants haven't done it in several years, but the moves they have made look like they are having an impact far more than the moves in years prior.
Mayfield and Barkley make their teams better, which is what top draft picks should do. Now, we just need to build around Barkley and strengthen the lines. Doing that and having Eli as a placeholder is fine. Having a rookie QB is fine.
The point being, strengthen the lines and we'll be a lot better, no matter who the QB is.
That would be nice
From 2014-2016 - Eli was top 5 in TDs and Yards
He had no run game
His STs were poor
His defense outside of 2016 was poor as well in the last 7 years
You see where I am going with this? You're saying there relocation issues, kicking issues, etc.... I can say the same thing about Eli in other areas as well.
Heres what happened with rivers. They got a running game. Gordon has been very good, which you and I can agree upon. They got a pass rush. Ingram, Bosa, ar very good players. jartavis Brown is a good young LB. So was Perryman. all very good picks. Derwin James has bolstered their secondary. Okung was a great pickup at tackle.
They surrounded him with what he needed so he could thrive. And he is playing great. But he couldnt perform this way unless they made all those moves.
The Giants needed to do this and our previous GM tried, but ultimately failed. Eli can still eb a winner. He doesnt need all-pros at every spot. But we needed to hit on some pieces and have them become productive. They havent. This years class is off to a good start. But we are more than just a Qb away from contending from the playoffs...
and thats been my contention the whole time. If the QB in round 1 doesnt fit.... keep getting better in the areas where we need a lot of help.
Yes, Telesco has done a very good job building that roster. And most of the time they've been picking middle of the draft.
You are essentially saying River and Eli are the same player but Rivers has more talent to work with on both sides of the ball. That's a real stretch for me...
If you can really watch Rivers play - and watch how he manages the pocket, makes plays on the move, makes some of the best throws under duress, etc - and still think he's not discernibly better than Eli, than we just watch the game differently.
Differently said, I think Eli is closer to or on the downside of his career than Rivers is. And I don't think it's close.
RollBlue : 1:43 pm : link : reply
if nothing else just to turn the page have have this conversation behind the organization. Really hard to move forward, unless one think Eli can win another championship, which I don't think anyone seriously believes
If every team who had a QB that people don't seriously believe can win a championship and you'd have the vast majority of teams turning the page.
Who seriously believes Dak can win a championship? Cousins? Smith? Newton? Winston? Mariota? Dalton? Who would've thought Flacco or Dilfer would win rings? Really any QB on a team with outstanding lines can win.
The number of QB's who people think can win a Championship is likely a short list. Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Ben and Wilson? And frankly, given his team's issues, even Rodgers is iffy on that front.
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Some people seem to be missing the point that it's better to go 5-11 with Lauletta or someone else than it is to go 6-10 with Eli.
Here's an idea. What if they drafted other players, lets just say an edge rusher in the first round. Lets just say they get a starting tackle in the 2nd. Lets just say they sign a productive FA. You think the team is still a 5 win team?
If all else remains the same outside of those acquisitions? Probably.
It depends on whether that starting tackle is really good, or if he's just better than Wheeler/Solder. Or if the edge rusher is more productive than Vernon.
We'll play the NFC North instead of South, which I imagine will provide tougher games. Then again, we'll also be going against the AFC East instead of South so that could be a wash.
Who knows if we'll face off against as many backup QBs again, also a factor. And I'm not counting on the coaching making much of an improvement.
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From 2014-2016 - Eli was top 5 in TDs and Yards
He had no run game
His STs were poor
His defense outside of 2016 was poor as well in the last 7 years
You see where I am going with this? You're saying there relocation issues, kicking issues, etc.... I can say the same thing about Eli in other areas as well.
Heres what happened with rivers. They got a running game. Gordon has been very good, which you and I can agree upon. They got a pass rush. Ingram, Bosa, ar very good players. jartavis Brown is a good young LB. So was Perryman. all very good picks. Derwin James has bolstered their secondary. Okung was a great pickup at tackle.
They surrounded him with what he needed so he could thrive. And he is playing great. But he couldnt perform this way unless they made all those moves.
The Giants needed to do this and our previous GM tried, but ultimately failed. Eli can still eb a winner. He doesnt need all-pros at every spot. But we needed to hit on some pieces and have them become productive. They havent. This years class is off to a good start. But we are more than just a Qb away from contending from the playoffs...
and thats been my contention the whole time. If the QB in round 1 doesnt fit.... keep getting better in the areas where we need a lot of help.
Yes, Telesco has done a very good job building that roster. And most of the time they've been picking middle of the draft.
You are essentially saying River and Eli are the same player but Rivers has more talent to work with on both sides of the ball. That's a real stretch for me...
If you can really watch Rivers play - and watch how he manages the pocket, makes plays on the move, makes some of the best throws under duress, etc - and still think he's not discernibly better than Eli, than we just watch the game differently.
Differently said, I think Eli is closer to or on the downside of his career than Rivers is. And I don't think it's close.
If the Giants had a pass rusher on that level this year, they'd have 2-3 more wins AT LEAST. Granted, there's probably 25 teams that can say the same.
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From 2014-2016 - Eli was top 5 in TDs and Yards
He had no run game
His STs were poor
His defense outside of 2016 was poor as well in the last 7 years
You see where I am going with this? You're saying there relocation issues, kicking issues, etc.... I can say the same thing about Eli in other areas as well.
Heres what happened with rivers. They got a running game. Gordon has been very good, which you and I can agree upon. They got a pass rush. Ingram, Bosa, ar very good players. jartavis Brown is a good young LB. So was Perryman. all very good picks. Derwin James has bolstered their secondary. Okung was a great pickup at tackle.
They surrounded him with what he needed so he could thrive. And he is playing great. But he couldnt perform this way unless they made all those moves.
The Giants needed to do this and our previous GM tried, but ultimately failed. Eli can still eb a winner. He doesnt need all-pros at every spot. But we needed to hit on some pieces and have them become productive. They havent. This years class is off to a good start. But we are more than just a Qb away from contending from the playoffs...
and thats been my contention the whole time. If the QB in round 1 doesnt fit.... keep getting better in the areas where we need a lot of help.
Yes, Telesco has done a very good job building that roster. And most of the time they've been picking middle of the draft.
You are essentially saying River and Eli are the same player but Rivers has more talent to work with on both sides of the ball. That's a real stretch for me...
If you can really watch Rivers play - and watch how he manages the pocket, makes plays on the move, makes some of the best throws under duress, etc - and still think he's not discernibly better than Eli, than we just watch the game differently.
Differently said, I think Eli is closer to or on the downside of his career than Rivers is. And I don't think it's close.
That’s dep026 thing ... the whole team sucks but Eli and any Qb that is having more success then Eli is because that Qb”s team.. Forget the QB skill level ... He is so bias it’s impossible to take him seriously
What is that based on? The team has completely sucked for years, and it completely sucks this year in many of the same ways.
And regarding Jackson, I don't know if you've been watching their games but they post the graphics seemingly every 5 minutes. With Jackson at QB points are up, yards are up, TOP is up.
And even if you don't agree with me on Jackson, it doesn't change the fact that the Giants are a disaster and Eli is toast.
And actually seeing they are teetering on the brink of missing the playoffs, success is a loose definition.
Haven't they won 4 of 5 with Jackson?
I think they're onto something, barring an injury. Jackson and Edwards definitely seem to present issues to defenses. I'm sure they'll learn some hard lessons and have some spectacular failures, but Jackson sure seems very talented.
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in round 1 even....if he meets the grade. But other than Herbert, I don't think that guy will be there.
NYG is in a very tough spot, no denying that. But I want to go in to 2019 with the best man available for the job while Barkley and Beckham are in the prime. Right now, other than a trade, I think that is going to be Manning.
I've had thoughts about Tyrod Taylor but man, he was tough to watch this season.
I respect you...A LOT. I don't see Eli beating a good team in the playoffs as our roster is currently constructed. I think his ceiling is average NFL starter now. I think we can plug someone else in next year that can win at least 3-5 games like Eli has the last 2 years. If that person has the potential for growth to be better, let's try that. Eli isn't the long term solution.
I know he isn't the long term solution. After 2019, the end of his contract, I wouldn't bring him back.
And yes - the giants moves have been more productive in past years. They actually have contributing draftees and Barkley looks like a shoo-in for ROTY.
We rid teh team of locker room distractions and the team is playing competitively. They have more games within 7 points than any other team.
If talking about other teams, this would be used as a sign of an arrow pointing up, but in your biased view, Gettleman is an "embarrassment" and the team is complete dogshit.
But a Ravens team with two more wins and a mobile QB is going places.
LOL.
They beat Pittsburgh and Tennessee with Flacco.
It isn't about who looks to be best, it is about proving it. The Giants haven't done it in several years, but the moves they have made look like they are having an impact far more than the moves in years prior.
Mayfield and Barkley make their teams better, which is what top draft picks should do. Now, we just need to build around Barkley and strengthen the lines. Doing that and having Eli as a placeholder is fine. Having a rookie QB is fine.
The point being, strengthen the lines and we'll be a lot better, no matter who the QB is.
This is true. Give Eli an oline that protects him and lets Barkley make more plays and Eli can still win. He will still make stupid, unacceptable plays every week because for 15 years he has done the same. But when he gets in a rhythm and doesn't have to carry the load, he can still win.
dep...I've never said to only draft QBs late. I'm fine drafting them in the first round. The issue I have is with paying the crazy franchise QB contract. I've said that a million times.
If the goal is to win championships the Ravens have zero shot with Jackson right now. He’s a liability in the passing game.
I agree that it's likely, and far more likely in Eli's case that he wants to be here, but I don't think it's a given.
When the evaluation is complete, I'm not convinced Gettleman and Shurmur endorse Eli again. Not with this past season, and especially not Shurmur with his current W/L record. Shurmur needs to start consistently winning, his resume so far is the opposite of that.
I'm sure wherever Mara is, he's in a little better shape after playing a little better football lately but there are still 2 games to go that we very likely don't win, and I'm sure 1-7 had to totally sting after what he went through last year.
As for Eli, the Giants may say, as suggested here, please be our placeholder, if they like a guy like Herbert, Haskins or Jones or whoever and perhaps Eli says thanks but no thanks and either retires or Coughlin calls.
I say it's 60/40 right now her returns but could still trend the other direction with two more lifeless performances.
If the goal is to win championships the Ravens have zero shot with Jackson right now. He’s a liability in the passing game.
Operative word being now. What Jackson is getting now - and this is crucial for the long run - is experience. Valuable experience. You can't beat that.
He's bringing a dimension to the game the NFL hasn't seen since Michael Vick. That's what makes him and the Ravens an interesting threat if they get in. Good D and they have this unorthodox running game.
But, I agree, that will be their downfall because he will be forced to make plays with his arm to win. It's just the nature of the game. And maybe in cold or inclement weather.
I'll add this as well. If things get ugly with Jackson, they could turn to Flacco. I have never been a fan, but he's certainly been prolific at times in the playoffs. So that makes him a very interesting X factor.
Rivers manipulates the pocket exceedingly better than Eli. He's just bigger and stronger. And he'll hang in there - and hang and hang and hang - allowing for plays to unfold more. He doesn't fold like a blanket when the pocket collapses, and that creates more opportunities. Indeed, he lumbers around at times like he has a piano on his back, but he somehow buys time and space and can make chicken salad. He's truly one of the oddest players I've seen at QB since Bernie Kosar. In fact, they are very much alike, but Rivers has a better arm and is bigger...
Anyway, this is getting into subjective territory. So probably not going to convince you if you can't see the obvious... ;)
Now that that's out of the way, you want to draft his replacement, right? That's where this is going. So you have five years of cost controlled QB play before the above mentioned second contract of ridiculous money.
Now, here's why you trot Eli out there next year:
1. You need a veteran QB on the roster if you are drafting a rookie.
2. Even signing journeymen QB's costs a good amount of money. Eli would leave 6 million or so in dead money, so you have to add that to whatever said journeyman costs, let's say we can sign one for 10 million just to throw a cheap option out there.
3. Let's go back to having a cost controlled rookie QB for five years.
You need a succession plan. That would be a logical and reasonable one for the reasons I've outlined.
Britt - I don't agree with keeping Manning on the team past January but I want to compliment you on stating a rational case for having him start in 2019. It's not exactly a sunny one but it ain't a stupid one. Well done.
The thing missing from this is "Upside." I'm at a loss as to why I should follow the Giants in 2019 if they do this. Even going with three unheralded, cheap QBs that have been plucked from backup duties with other teams has the potential to eventually reap some benefits if any of them develop and show growth. The Eli option has none. It reeks of the despair of old age.
"NYG is in a very tough spot, no denying that. But I want to go in to 2019 with the best man available for the job while Barkley and Beckham are in the prime. Right now, other than a trade, I think that is going to be Manning."
We just had the #2 pick in the draft and, after selecting a great player, we are in a "very tough spot."