| “It’s about winning and I’ve seen someone told one of the reporters I’m in the teardown,’’ Gettleman said recently. “We’re not spending $62.5 million on Nate Solder, spending the money on [28-year-old guard] Patrick Omameh, we’re not trading for Alec Ogletree. If it’s a teardown, we’re not doing that. We evaluated the roster, we’ve developed a plan moving forward. It’s about winning now. Who wants to lose? I don’t.’’ |
I saw this on twitter today - link to article below. A lot of people say this wasn’t a “win now” year or philosophy. I keep seeing the point of “60 percent roster turnover”. This quote says a lot & they are staring down 5-11.
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No GM will ever make that statement.
Let's also understand that they didn't expect Vernon to sprain his ankle and miss the first 6 games.
Add the fact that we only have 16 guys return from the season before and most of the coaching staff is new and you may have some early chemistry issues.
It was gonna take a few years to change the culture and reverse the years of bad drafting by Reese. I think they thought we could be a competitive team during the purge.
That doesn't mean it's a "damn the future, all aboard for today" melee.
What's the alternative? Sitting on their hands, doing nothing. "Uh, we passed on trying to improve the OL because we want to suck for a few years, then we'll improve it"
The problem isn't that G tried to improve the team, or the money he spent to do so. The problem is that he picked the wrong players to spend money on.
No GM will ever make that statement.
[quote] You try to win every season. In the age of parity, with a couple of breaks, things can happen. It didn't go our way this year, but a break here or there and we could be fighting for the playoffs, too. [/quote Yup If the refs do not screw us in the Carolina and second Philly game we are still alive and have a great shot to make the playoffs .So frustrating
They realized they screwed up the Omameh thing and moved on - what more do you want?
Solder is a solid LT - he's not elite but the money is what it is, starting LTs get crazy money and he's pretty good.
That said, I don't want to debate the Eli thing anymore. We'll just see what happens with him.
Pretty much how I see. You aren't going to be able to do what the Raiders are doing in NY. Fans want to act like that's a legitimate option but it really isn't for many franchises. Gutting and starting over also comes with great risk of it not working out and having to do it again and again.
Gettelman made moves assuming they players he got would be better. It didn't work out. Atleast he cut many of the mistakes and hopefully learned from it. What more do people want right now?
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Did you want him to say "Giants fans, we are going to be bad this year, but trust us, we'll be better next year."
No GM will ever make that statement.
It's not what he said, but what he did that points to a gross misevaluation of the roster.
He missed on Omameh, true. But he had garbage on the OL to start with, and you build the OL through the draft and strategic signings. You can argue he overpaid for Solder, but that was necessary b/c of the horrible Reese drafts.
2. Does Mara feel he was sold a bill of goods with DG & feels it is now time for a complete tear down?
They clearly did. They cut two starters on the O-line midseason and traded away two defensive starters mid season.
Aren't these the type of things you guys clamor for?
It's the nature of the NFL; some teams that suck one year have turned around and won 6,7,8 more games the very next year. Look at LAR - fans were ready to ride Goff out of town after 2016, then look what happened in 2017 (they went from 4-12 to 11-5).
I'm not comparing the 2018 Giants to the 2016 Rams, but turn arounds can happen quickly in the NFL.
2. Does Mara feel he was sold a bill of goods with DG & feels it is now time for a complete tear down?
The tear down was last year. Are you saying that Mara should hire a new GM and have the GM rebuild the team again?
But it is also a huge leap to say that there was a mandate to keep Eli and we are hell bent on building "around him", yet that crap is repeated ad nauseum.
Heck, the whole reason this thread was started and this quote produced is to try and support that case, right?
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It's clear as day that they obviously misjudged the talent on this roster. Let's just hope they realized this. If not, we're f*cked.
They clearly did. They cut two starters on the O-line midseason and traded away two defensive starters mid season.
Aren't these the type of things you guys clamor for?
Solid starts for sure. But more is needed.
2. Does Mara feel he was sold a bill of goods with DG & feels it is now time for a complete tear down?
We were never going to do a complete tear down. I don’t even know what that means in the NFL to be honest so #2 isn’t happening.
No GM will ever make that statement.
He doesn't need to make that statement, but he also doesn't need to make the one that he made. Anyone who thinks that Gettleman knew this was a teardown is fooling themselves. Self evaluation of the roster was brutal in the off-season
Rather, what occurred was the Giants doubling down on a very flawed roster and an older qb. A team that is "rebuilding" or even "retooling" simply doesn't conduct an offseason such as the the Giants front office.
I'd also add that the Giants were running a "misinformation" campaign regarding the draft, but it turned out that the Giants telegraphed their pick almost from day one. Why is the relevant to the topic at hand? Simply because what you see is what you get with DG. He says what he means. Thus, win now out of his mouth really means win now.
Therefore, staring down the barrel of 5-11 is a monumental disaster for this franchise and frankly, conducting the offseason in manner the front office did may have years of far reaching ramifications on this team. Right or wrong, the Giants changed the course of possible the next 10-15 years with the 2018 offseason.
He also brought religion into it, don’t forget!
That's what Gettleman was looking for. Anyone who believes he thought he was close to a finished product is just not being fair.
The roster was in horrific shape when Gettleman took over. We had a below average aging QB and ton of shitty players with a few great ones.
Let's give Gettleman another offseason to see if he can keep things moving to turn it around eventually, it was never going to be a worst to first situation with the roster the way that it was.
The roster was in horrific shape when Gettleman took over. We had a below average aging QB and ton of shitty players with a few great ones.
Let's give Gettleman another offseason to see if he can keep things moving to turn it around eventually, it was never going to be a worst to first situation with the roster the way that it was.
Rational. Logical.
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Did you want him to say "Giants fans, we are going to be bad this year, but trust us, we'll be better next year."
No GM will ever make that statement.
He doesn't need to make that statement, but he also doesn't need to make the one that he made. Anyone who thinks that Gettleman knew this was a teardown is fooling themselves. Self evaluation of the roster was brutal in the off-season
The roster was completely overhauled. Actions speak louder than words. What comment from DG would have satisfied you?
I've asked this before but none of the Gettleman bashers answer: what were realistic expectations for turning around the rotten situation left behind by Reese/Ross? Was it going to take more than 1 year or should they have been a contender this year?
Give them time. There's a lot to fix. Solder and Ogletree were about getting the right types of guys in too. They are warriors who work hard & don't like to miss anything. We need more of that around here.
This was a transition year, a rebuilding year, and to get the pitchforks out when they don't instantaneously turn it around is ridiculous.
correct them
move on
do your best
try and win
what else can you do?
Fat man, tell me what my expectations of this franchise should be? I am will to adjust them. Just tell me, is this a franchise that will be mediocre and occasionally pop into the playoffs (i.e., the Bengals)? Should I expect a win-now mentality? We've now sat since 2013 with mostly awful teams, and a GM that doubled down on that level of play. Should I be patient, have I not been patient enough over the last- 6 years? Should I be happy with mediocre to poor qb play and a team investing the second pick on the most replaceable position in the four major sports? Tell me, I'm very reasonable and can adjust my expectations.
Fat man, how long have you been a season ticket holder? I've been one for over a decade and a half now. I've given a lot of money to this franchise to see a continuously poor product placed on the field. Only to then have a sham GM search, which essentially reinforced the decisions of the past half decade plus. You speak as though everything is right in Giants land, so I can only assume they sign your paychecks. Sp again, please let me know what I should expect going forward and I am happy to adjust.
You can't have it both ways.
If my team ever did that, I really would drop them.
Gettleman turned over 60% of the roster, to think he was going to hit on a high percentage isn't realistic.
Have another good draft, be more prudent in free agency and the Giants can easily be an 8-8 team with the arrow pointing upward.
It's the NFL.....
Instead, he turned over a significant portion of the roster (including a ton of really bad starters), had a really good draft, and the team is 5-9 mostly due to poor coaching and poor QB play. This team should easily have 7-8 wins right now but our QB is simply not playing up to the level that is needed in the NFL to win consistently, and a coach that is basically batting 230 with not a ton of good things to say other than the guys play hard for him and he has a good offensive scheme sometimes.
And yet...it is Gettleman's fault.
You can't have it both ways.
I should have been specific, the GM search was a sham. More than half of this board predicted it would be DG before JR was even fired. How many non-Giants candidates were given legitimate consideration?
It seems like I should be okay with mediocrity according to some of you. So I guess that's where I'll set my expectation, mediocrity and be happy with the occasional 9 win season.
If my team ever did that, I really would drop them.
Gettleman turned over 60% of the roster, to think he was going to hit on a high percentage isn't realistic.
Have another good draft, be more prudent in free agency and the Giants can easily be an 8-8 team with the arrow pointing upward.
It's the NFL.....
This misses the point. This team was 1-7 we traded arguably our best defender. We continued to start a 38 year old QB instead of what you should do if you are going to throw in the towel like that start a young QB. You don't want to be the 76ers. At least they had a plan. What's our plan? Act like we can compete and over invest in a bunch of win now players like Solder, Ogletree, Omameh, and Stewart find out we are way shittier than we expected. I'm sorry but you don't sign a guy like Solder to that contract unless you think your team can contend.
You want to act like beating the 49ers, Bucs and two teams with backup QBs makes us better than the 76ers? No, it doesn't make us better it means that for whatever reason the leadership of this team cares about saving a small amount of face over a superior strategy of building a team that actually has a chance to contend or bottoming out.
Instead, he turned over a significant portion of the roster (including a ton of really bad starters), had a really good draft, and the team is 5-9 mostly due to poor coaching and poor QB play. This team should easily have 7-8 wins right now but our QB is simply not playing up to the level that is needed in the NFL to win consistently, and a coach that is basically batting 230 with not a ton of good things to say other than the guys play hard for him and he has a good offensive scheme sometimes.
And yet...it is Gettleman's fault.
This is it in a nutshell, we are now celebrating a 5-9, heading toward 5-11 (maybe 6-10), just because we didn't win 0 games this season. So a two game improvement with wins over nick mullins and ryan fitzpatrick is something to relish. Oh boy how the times have changed. Hey, at least we didn't win 0 games!!
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how is Gettleman a sham, and how is he just more of the same if he's actually doing what Reese and Co never did with roster adjustments?
You can't have it both ways.
I should have been specific, the GM search was a sham. More than half of this board predicted it would be DG before JR was even fired. How many non-Giants candidates were given legitimate consideration?
It seems like I should be okay with mediocrity according to some of you. So I guess that's where I'll set my expectation, mediocrity and be happy with the occasional 9 win season.
I think you really just aren't being realistic. No one is telling you to be ok with mediocrity. What I am saying is just because you are frustrated doesn't make you right and the Giants wrong. There's a whole lot of variable to putting together a winning football team and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you don't know a single one of them.
That's my general problem with takes like "the GM search was a Sham" or "DG is just a Mara lackey". Its anger projected in a belligerent fashion with no evidence at all other than it didn't happen the way you wanted it to.
It seems like I should be okay with mediocrity according to some of you. So I guess that's where I'll set my expectation, mediocrity and be happy with the occasional 9 win season.
What an odd attitude some of you have. Who is suggesting you "be ok" with mediocrity? Who was it that was suggesting the plan should be to have a .500 team going forward?
The discussion is whether or not the current management misjudged the talent and ability on the roster when they took over. They made some moves that worked and some that didn't. To me, that means the jury is still out. But this idea of "win now" or "teardown" is a false choice. None of the moves made suggested going all in for a Superbowl run, and none suggested tanking for high draft picks.
If you continue to see the world in those types of binaries you will likely continue to be off in your expectations.
That was a bad football team.
This team won 5 and could have won 7. It's a better team but it's still not a good team.
They dumped 2 starters - is that still "all in"?
They are in continuous evaluation / optimization mode.
These are competitive professionals and owners - they want to win. They don't want to mail it in.
It's a relatively quick turn around league but the Browns didn't turn that around in 1 year. That's 2 years of good drafting aided highly by getting Myles Garret at # 1. And they are ahead of us. But not by a landslide.
We need another strong draft and on paper, at least going into the draft I think this is volume wise the most picks the Giants have had in at least 5 years - albeit a lot of the picks are later in the draft.
I swear it is like nobody even cares how things went down in Carolina. They think that the giants called and he is a yes man to some Mandate handed down by the owner. It flies in the face of his entire career, yet it is repeated here on a near daily basis
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It seems like I should be okay with mediocrity according to some of you. So I guess that's where I'll set my expectation, mediocrity and be happy with the occasional 9 win season.
What an odd attitude some of you have. Who is suggesting you "be ok" with mediocrity? Who was it that was suggesting the plan should be to have a .500 team going forward?
The discussion is whether or not the current management misjudged the talent and ability on the roster when they took over. They made some moves that worked and some that didn't. To me, that means the jury is still out. But this idea of "win now" or "teardown" is a false choice. None of the moves made suggested going all in for a Superbowl run, and none suggested tanking for high draft picks.
If you continue to see the world in those types of binaries you will likely continue to be off in your expectations.
Ok I accept that change is incremental. But explain this to me, why go all in on a 38 year old qb if we weren't win now? Seems like an odd strategy, does it not?
Hang on tight.
Basically because we didn't draft a QB, we are hell bent on keeping Eli as the centerpiece and building around him, right??
I really feel like ramming my head into a fucking wall.
I swear it is like nobody even cares how things went down in Carolina. They think that the giants called and he is a yes man to some Mandate handed down by the owner. It flies in the face of his entire career, yet it is repeated here on a near daily basis
See you never answered the questions I posed directly to you. Other posters did. You did not. Because you have your own agenda and completely change the topic. I'm not suggesting DG is a yes man, I'm suggesting he just might not be that good. I think that's reasonable, don't you?