| “It’s about winning and I’ve seen someone told one of the reporters I’m in the teardown,’’ Gettleman said recently. “We’re not spending $62.5 million on Nate Solder, spending the money on [28-year-old guard] Patrick Omameh, we’re not trading for Alec Ogletree. If it’s a teardown, we’re not doing that. We evaluated the roster, we’ve developed a plan moving forward. It’s about winning now. Who wants to lose? I don’t.’’ |
I saw this on twitter today - link to article below. A lot of people say this wasn’t a “win now” year or philosophy. I keep seeing the point of “60 percent roster turnover”. This quote says a lot & they are staring down 5-11.
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How do you know this? How do you make this statement without knowing what's going to transpire over the course of the next couple years?
Have a little faith. [/quote]
How would you justify the play calling of Shurmur with one of the most dangerous backs in the NFL and a really good backup is ranked 31st in the NFL in Rushing attempts. I don't know how you have faith.
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THEN, less than 1 year after these guys got hired to fix this mess, a lot of you are already saying they need to go. How can you not see that is foolish?
Nice post. I would add to the quote above that more than a few on here were against the hiring of DG before his first press conference was over.
It's been tough discussing anything with people whose minds were made up about our chances back in February.
Agree with the above. I’d also add that some posters on BBI would have disagreed with whatever decision the Giants made when hiring a GM. And then they used every decision made by the GM to support their position that things would be better if someone else were hired.
I don’t know how DG will be as a GM. But he needs time to prove himself. And firing him after one season is idiotic.
Great conversation we're having here.
Great conversation we're having here.
You're kidding - that's your rebuttal to the STs being no good, that the kicker had a Pro Bowl season?!
It's fucking preposterous.
First, any fucking take you have that is based on a General Manager or Head Coach's media appearance is bad. You should stop yourself before you speak or hit Submit. Just stop. They're going to say anything that makes their situation look better, their relationship with players look better and say whatever instills the most confidence with the fan base. Do most of you not understand that?
Second, we had massive turnover on this team, on a team that won 3 games last year. You really thought we were going to be competitive? Please. You want to slam Shurmur? You can get after him on a mistakes in game. He has issues with time management. But you know what he's done really well? Instilled a culture of winning and a culture of team. This team has played hard all year where last year it was all at a lost.
Do you know what also is pretty good? The continuation of turning over the roster, cutting bait on shitty players, no more scholarships. That breeds competition inside the locker room. You don't think cutting Flowers and Omameh and Apple had a positive effect on the locker room?
To the dude who mentioned Apple. Delete your accounts and don't come back.
Snacks was on his last legs, had a low snap count, and realistically we weren't going to compete this year. We got what we could for him and moved on. It's a smart move.
Gettleman made some bad signings in Free Agency, but they were cheap signings. Stewart and Omameh aren't going to kill us when the cap is going to be around $190 million. 3-5 Million cap hit for both of them? This isn't fucking 2002 anymore boys. Do the god damn math and shut the fuck up.
And Barkley? The only other player I would have taken over him was Baker Mayfield. There are plenty of fucking threads on this technical abortion of a message board whining about QB vs. RB. I think the proof, at least in year one, is that we made the right decision. The NFL is a game of small windows and I don't think any of the other quarterbacks was worth looking at.
Though I will admit that not taking Rosen is something that may prove me wrong. We'll see.
Ultimately for those of you complaining about DG, fuck off. Just like you can't judge a draft until 3 years, you can't judge a GM off of one offseason and 14 games. Let's talk next Christmas.
100%. I actually love what Gettleman has done aside from Omameh, but again, that really wasn't a huge deal as they moved on from him early on once it was clear the dude just isn't good.
Shurmur's decision making has been brutal in some games which had a direct effect on losses.
Their grade is incomplete - as almost any GM in year 1 should be, especially on a team where the roster has been revamped.
Fans are frustrated and they want immediate results. They've seen other teams have immediate results and want to see them here. Then again, a lot of those teams with immediate results, usually achieve them through outstanding health, which then becomes a one-year blip. See Jax and Buffalo last year.
The fellating of Jax for their philosophy in team building was amusing to say the least in the past offseason. They will be a force for the next decade....
He has kept this team playing hard, I will say that. But they just looked like a JV team against the Titans and didn't score a single point at home- who aren't exactly a great team by any stretch. I don't think it's unfair to say that our coaching has not been that good this year. Would he be a better coach if we had better players? I'm not sure. I'd like to think so...but that remains to be seen.
I don't see how anyone here could think management went into 2018 willing to accept marginal improvement.
We went over this in preseason. Their team-building actions did not indicate that they were taking a patient, build it up approach.
I have a lot of concern over Shurmur's game management. But then again, McAdoo's game management looked great his first year.
Passing the ball 44 times on Sunday and getting away from Barkley in the Philly game are two huge red flags.
The team has sucked since 2011. Everyone here has grown frustrated at the shitty product. Even though we drafted the best running back in the league, a guard who will have borderline all-pro potential, two d-linemen who will be contributors, signed UDFA Grant Haley who looks like a keeper, kept Rosas, and locked up LT for the next years.
He missed on Patrick Omameh and Jonathan Stewart. The reality is neither move is going to kill us moving forward.
What a lot of you are saying is basically this
"We've been such a mess for 7 years !!! Reese sucked at drafting! Our FA's signings didn't work out! The culture sucks!"
THEN, less than 1 year after these guys got hired to fix this mess, a lot of you are already saying they need to go. How can you not see that is foolish?
Again, i will drop Dave Gettleman's resume here:
As executive
2× Super Bowl champion (XLII, XLVI)
4× NFC Champion (2000, 2007, 2011, 2015)
As administrator
5× AFC Champion (1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1997)
Super Bowl champion (XXXII)
If you want to debate some of moves, by all means! I already admitted some have not worked out. But if you're gonna post comments like "Gettleman is so clueless" fully recognize you are an idiot.
Can we MAYBE, just MAYBE, give them another year? Can we see how the 10 draft picks work out? Can Shurmur have a competent quarterback and offensive line before we run the guy out of town?
Can anyone answer these two questions for me?
- Did they really have an option to move the declining quarterback who makes too much money and has a no trade clause?
- Does anyone have a good counter as to why we cut half the team on September 1 right before the season started? Does your counter argument involve a quote from a media day in April? Which do you think holds more importance?
If they fuck up the draft and the offseason goes poorly, tee off on me and tell me how wrong i am. Then we should be worried. I still like both hires.
Very solid post! I love DG and I think for the most part Shurmur has been good. He knows football. The main issue I have with PS has been some clock management gafs and maybe throwing the ball too much early in the season.
They base that on "who can we get who's better"? Well, who would we get that's going to get 12 plus sacks (something sorely needed) or play the run better than Snacks?
Personally, I'm ok with making those moves because I want to team to be in a better position long term. It's the same logic regarding Eli. I don't care if they get someone who actually plays better than Eli in 2019 (bar not set really high), I want them to start allocating the significant resources elsewhere to try and build a winner.
If Eli is still the starter going into next year, there will be doubts, questions, distractions regarding the QB play, and will be hard to move forward and improve. That's the biggest move that, IMO, needs to be made the day after the season ends, announce we are moving on from the Eli era - turn the page.
One strategy is to just go with Lauletta and a rookie and mail the season in, but we have people revolting this year and bitching that we're wasting Barkley's 3-year prime window - where does that leave us next year?
Any decent vet who wants to be a starter will eat up a majority of that savings.
unless you draft a QB and go with Lauletta - which means more bitching from people who will say the franchise has no plan and is wasting years without a plan, right?
One strategy is to just go with Lauletta and a rookie and mail the season in, but we have people revolting this year and bitching that we're wasting Barkley's 3-year prime window - where does that leave us next year?
Yes. Mail it in. Embrace going 2-14. The prize will be waiting for us in April of 2020. Going somewhere between 5-11 and 7-9 (which is likely what 2019 will be) does nothing for us. Bottom this bitch out.
Damn a plan, the pitchforks are out and they are angry. They'll still tune in and watch every week, buy tickets and merchandise... But by god they're not happy about it!
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is that Eli really isn't a cap discussion. He will carry a significant amount of dead money if he's cut and a replacement plus that dead money will likely eat away the majority of the savings, so you aren't getting much of a benefit.
One strategy is to just go with Lauletta and a rookie and mail the season in, but we have people revolting this year and bitching that we're wasting Barkley's 3-year prime window - where does that leave us next year?
Yes. Mail it in. Embrace going 2-14. The prize will be waiting for us in April of 2020. Going somewhere between 5-11 and 7-9 (which is likely what 2019 will be) does nothing for us. Bottom this bitch out.
And to clarify: for all we know, Eli might give us the best chance at 2-14.
Was any QB going to pull that game out? We allowed over 200 yards rushing.
That's not to say Eli didn't play poorly, but pointing to a game in the rain where the entire offense blew shouldn't really be the game that turns the tide.
Look - I've heard the arguments that mobile QB's don't have games like Eli. yet you know who did the very same week? Dak. Shutout against the Colts, without even a weather excuse.
I did not. But I do think DG did. That's a huge reason why I'm so critical.
Their grade is incomplete - as almost any GM in year 1 should be, especially on a team where the roster has been revamped.
Fans are frustrated and they want immediate results. They've seen other teams have immediate results and want to see them here. Then again, a lot of those teams with immediate results, usually achieve them through outstanding health, which then becomes a one-year blip. See Jax and Buffalo last year.
The fellating of Jax for their philosophy in team building was amusing to say the least in the past offseason. They will be a force for the next decade....
Don't get me wrong, I'm not lauding them, they have mistakes. That's going to happen. They are far from dumpster fire level that people seem to think.
I won't even touch the shitheads who like to yell at clouds and Maras.
I don't see how anyone here could think management went into 2018 willing to accept marginal improvement.
We went over this in preseason. Their team-building actions did not indicate that they were taking a patient, build it up approach.
Our team is low bar talent. I judge accordingly.
I'm just getting tired of the excuses. Hell, I'M getting tired of defending Eli. I'm just at my breaking point with this team, and he's not leading us anywhere, he's only adding to the fact that we suck. I'm just done trying to defend keeping him on the team. I love the guy, he'll be my all time favorite athlete until the day I die...but I just think it's time to move on.
If we signed a vet or played a rookie next year...it really can't get much worse. We didn't score a single point last week - and he's been downright bad in a lot of games. Now...that being said. He's been awesome in some games too. But you can't tell me that another QB who makes 1/10th of the money he does can't pretty much give us the same result.
Any decent vet who wants to be a starter will eat up a majority of that savings.
unless you draft a QB and go with Lauletta - which means more bitching from people who will say the franchise has no plan and is wasting years without a plan, right?
No, not right.
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You really thought we were going to be competitive?
I did not. But I do think DG did. That's a huge reason why I'm so critical.
Based on a press conference? Can I base whether you're a moron based on just on your post I quoted?
It's like a marriage ending or a relationship ending...there's no good way to put it...it's just over.
That's called building a roster. DG or any GM is not going to build a competitive team by only the draft. You always take the opportunity the bring perceived talent whenever you can.
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No, based on a number of moves he made this off-season: Solder, the Ogletree trade, throwing money at Omameh.
That's called building a roster. DG or any GM is not going to build a competitive team by only the draft. You always take the opportunity the bring perceived talent whenever you can.
You don't throw assets at a player like Ogletree if you're rebuilding.
And the Solder signing has thus far been very bad. So he failed on player evaluation, which was allegedly his strength.
ryanmkeane : 10:23 am : link : reply
Eli has an atrocious game, it's "well the OL wasn't good" "well, the weather sucked" or "well...you can't expect him to have a great game every week" or "he made a lot of good throws too...we were close to winning that game"
Hell, if he has a single turnover in a game we eventually lose, that is microanalyzed as being the reason. He led two TD drives in the final 5 minutes to take the lead in Carolina and people blamed him for an earlier turnover and for SCORING TOO QUICKLY as the main reason for the loss. His INT at the end of the first half against Philly is talked about as a 21 point momentum changing play.
When he has immediate pressure and takes a sack, he gets ripped.
Eli has been far from perfect. He's also far from atrocious. But that isn't the mindset of most posters. I bet a lot of people truly feel that a different QB is worth 3-4 more wins, especially a mobile QB. And I think that's horseshit.
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In comment 14225931 BrettNYG10 said:
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No, based on a number of moves he made this off-season: Solder, the Ogletree trade, throwing money at Omameh.
That's called building a roster. DG or any GM is not going to build a competitive team by only the draft. You always take the opportunity the bring perceived talent whenever you can.
You don't throw assets at a player like Ogletree if you're rebuilding.
And the Solder signing has thus far been very bad. So he failed on player evaluation, which was allegedly his strength.
I mean you're just wrong. We moved to a 3-4 and we needed talent. Ogletree was a good move imo. Solder was a result of the open market.
What would you have done other wise to an OL that was dogshit?
Failed on player eval? Point to me a GM that hits on 100% of his signings. Are you going to also ignore all of DGs history (decades) and judge him based on two signings?
Come the fuck on.
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Every single week that
ryanmkeane : 10:23 am : link : reply
Eli has an atrocious game, it's "well the OL wasn't good" "well, the weather sucked" or "well...you can't expect him to have a great game every week" or "he made a lot of good throws too...we were close to winning that game"
Hell, if he has a single turnover in a game we eventually lose, that is microanalyzed as being the reason. He led two TD drives in the final 5 minutes to take the lead in Carolina and people blamed him for an earlier turnover and for SCORING TOO QUICKLY as the main reason for the loss. His INT at the end of the first half against Philly is talked about as a 21 point momentum changing play.
When he has immediate pressure and takes a sack, he gets ripped.
Eli has been far from perfect. He's also far from atrocious. But that isn't the mindset of most posters. I bet a lot of people truly feel that a different QB is worth 3-4 more wins, especially a mobile QB. And I think that's horseshit.
I think he's been atrocious in the context of a $20M QB that is a two time super bowl mvp.
He's better than average in the context of all QBs and potential FA replacements.
And you have a few posters who maintain that Ogletree is absolute garbage.
There have been a lot of strange takes on him.
Gettleman tried to improve the OL and the LB corps and drafted a RB.
The reaction to that isn't that he was trying to rebuild units, the reaction was "THEY ARE ALL-IN ON ELI!!", with a lot of veiled references to a mandate from the owner that Eli has to stay and the team must build around him.
A good amount of plays and throws happen every game which directly leads to the other team getting the ball or the play just having zero chance for success. At the very thought of pressure, there is just zero chance for the play to succeed. That isn't really up for debate I don't think. Maybe it is...but anyone watching could tell you that Eli makes some really good throws from time to time...but in reality he is just extremely inconsistent to the point where it's not leading us anywhere. He'll play well in like 50% of our games, and it gives us a chance to win those games. But our team isn't good enough to hide him when he's playing terribly.
DG made a guy who has been mediocre the highest paid OT in the league. That isn't a small error. He's swung and missed on almost all of his signings.
As the GM of the Giants, he has failed miserably in free agency. His 'decades long' history is irrelevant.
That's not to say everything he's done is bad. Hernandez looks good. Barkley is probably the best back in the league already (and I would have went in a different direction in the draft, but DG was very much right here).
I don't see how anyone here could think management went into 2018 willing to accept marginal improvement.
We went over this in preseason. Their team-building actions did not indicate that they were taking a patient, build it up approach.
What specifically? And don't give me Solder. There is never a bad time to lock up one of the most important positions in football. If they didn't sign him people here would riot.
DG made a guy who has been mediocre the highest paid OT in the league. That isn't a small error. He's swung and missed on almost all of his signings.
As the GM of the Giants, he has failed miserably in free agency. His 'decades long' history is irrelevant.
That's not to say everything he's done is bad. Hernandez looks good. Barkley is probably the best back in the league already (and I would have went in a different direction in the draft, but DG was very much right here).
Dude, you are wrong. He played with a stinger till the bye week, got a week off and has played much better. He's solid. Not an All-Pro, but not a JAG either. It has in no way failed miserably.
Anything since then they seemingly ignore.
And then talk about huge swings and misses without realizing the irony of that.
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would give them a pass on everything if they had drafted Darnold. You admitted you would preach patience with the roster and to give them a chance.
But because of ONE single draft pick/player, you've gone the polar opposite extreme and unleashed hell on them.
Does that seem rational?
I absolutely would not give them a pass on everything. Drafting Darnold wouldn't solve or excuse Shurmur's ineptitude. It wouldn't excuse the sham GM "search" that saw Gettleman get here in the first place. It wouldn't excuse Gettleman's misses in FA, or his proud "old school" mentality. It wouldn't excuse this awful coaching staff assembled under Shurmur.
This isn't just about the Barkley pick. I keep telling you that.
Who should they have hired at GM instead? Who says old school mentalities can't work?