Very telling Gettleman quote from April

In comment 14225355 jcn56 said:

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In comment 14225351 Go Terps said: Quote: The moment they faced a team that wasn't a pushover they wilted in the rain. They're going to finish 5-11 with the last game at MetLife being a de facto Cowboy home game. Are we supposed to feel good about that because they didn't go 2-14? God damn...you think I'm frustrating... I think this is the most frustrating part of all of it. People here really think there's been some breakthrough and the team is pointing up, going solely on the basis of the W-L record, neglecting the fact that the team had more injuries last year and had the benefit of very high draft picks and more FA spending over last year, combined with the division being weaker. The team is still in shambles - despite massive turnover, the OL is still terrible. The offense is completely dysfunctional. The defense would need a promotion to be mediocre. There's nothing here that indicates the arrow is pointing anywhere but sideways/down, and the recommendation seems to be to stick with the status quo all the way around and hope things improve somehow.

Funny, i think its the people who can't help but be negative that look at wins and losses. I stopped caring about that a while ago. Is the team playing hard? Yes. Are the young players seemingly improving as the season goes on? Yes. Is Shurmur adjsuting to mistakes? Yes. They are improving.

In comment 14225701 Dodge said:

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The monumental level of stupidity and terrible hot takes in this thread is overwhelming. How can so many people who have spent a lifetime watching football can be so wrong and moronic? It's fucking preposterous. First, any fucking take you have that is based on a General Manager or Head Coach's media appearance is bad. You should stop yourself before you speak or hit Submit. Just stop. They're going to say anything that makes their situation look better, their relationship with players look better and say whatever instills the most confidence with the fan base. Do most of you not understand that? Second, we had massive turnover on this team, on a team that won 3 games last year. You really thought we were going to be competitive? Please. You want to slam Shurmur? You can get after him on a mistakes in game. He has issues with time management. But you know what he's done really well? Instilled a culture of winning and a culture of team. This team has played hard all year where last year it was all at a lost. Do you know what also is pretty good? The continuation of turning over the roster, cutting bait on shitty players, no more scholarships. That breeds competition inside the locker room. You don't think cutting Flowers and Omameh and Apple had a positive effect on the locker room? To the dude who mentioned Apple. Delete your accounts and don't come back. Snacks was on his last legs, had a low snap count, and realistically we weren't going to compete this year. We got what we could for him and moved on. It's a smart move. Gettleman made some bad signings in Free Agency, but they were cheap signings. Stewart and Omameh aren't going to kill us when the cap is going to be around $190 million. 3-5 Million cap hit for both of them? This isn't fucking 2002 anymore boys. Do the god damn math and shut the fuck up. And Barkley? The only other player I would have taken over him was Baker Mayfield. There are plenty of fucking threads on this technical abortion of a message board whining about QB vs. RB. I think the proof, at least in year one, is that we made the right decision. The NFL is a game of small windows and I don't think any of the other quarterbacks was worth looking at. Though I will admit that not taking Rosen is something that may prove me wrong. We'll see. Ultimately for those of you complaining about DG, fuck off. Just like you can't judge a draft until 3 years, you can't judge a GM off of one offseason and 14 games. Let's talk next Christmas.

Have a fucking Rec good sir.

In comment 14225993 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

people watched the first 5 games of the year and decided Solder absolutely sucks. Anything since then they seemingly ignore. And then talk about huge swings and misses without realizing the irony of that.

You can tell who listens to Giants reporters that actually break down film on a consistent basis and who watches the game once and makes rash decisions off what they saw.

None of us get to make decisions later than the deadline presented.

Dial back before FA ( which is before the draft):

Flowers sucked and likely would suck on the right side
Not right to offer Pugh or Richburg
There was no RG
There was a poor choice amongst the back ups

That's the deck you are handed. Reality. Facts. In effect you are the new GM and you promised the fans you would do your best ( otherwise you would not get the gig) and yet you have zilch at Ol. Literally zilch

There were limited FA available and semi sure thing OL of any kind only exist in the first two rounds.

For those wanting a shot at a new QB...you needed an OL. For those wanting whoever the BPA was ...you need an OL

What did you want done?

Mara to shit out 5 All Pro OL in his basement in FA? At the vet Minimum. Then FA a HOF Qb...that was not there.

Then use the draft to actually draft the DL and LB and FS we also needed.

Obviously Jints Central is deficient. Every other teams fans get to see newly shit out of nowhere HOF talent. Every year

I cant believe there is actually a conversation where people think its even logical to make some of these criticisms. And I say that unimpressed by the HC and mixed on the GM and praying the top guy finally got his act together.


‘Twas brillig, and the slithy tackles
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogove guards,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

‘Beware the Jabberwock!
The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!’

Take vorpal sword in hand and post like Mad:
Long time the manxome foe they seek—
So no resting by the Tumtum tree,
Post with eyes of flame,
on threads whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burble as we post more and more!

and defies rational thought.

PFF (FWIW) says he's been above average this year. I think he's been a bit worse, but either way that's an awful return.

I don't know why people want to pretend the first half of the year didn't happen.

In comment 14226021 GiantGrit said:

Quote:

Funny, i think its the people who can't help but be negative that look at wins and losses. I stopped caring about that a while ago. Is the team playing hard? Yes. Are the young players seemingly improving as the season goes on? Yes. Is Shurmur adjsuting to mistakes? Yes. They are improving.

I think it's hilarious you can say 'negative' in that sense.

As if there's something to see here that people are overlooking. The team has been brutally bad against anything but the worst competition. They opened up the season 1-7.

Yet, some get pleasure from things like 'playing hard', which can't be quantified in any way.

If you want to call me negative, fine by me. I think you're delusional, wanting to apply a positive spin on a situation that is already bad and doesn't seem to be improving in any way.

In comment 14226090 BrettNYG10 said:

Quote:

PFF (FWIW) says he's been above average this year. I think he's been a bit worse, but either way that's an awful return. I don't know why people want to pretend the first half of the year didn't happen.

Some, like myself, think he was fighting an injury. I’ll admit he has been good in the 2nd half. He’ll likely never justify his contract though.

But people trying to pick pockets of play to justify the contract are being ridiculous, IMV.

does his contract have to be "justified"?? We needed either a guard or a tackle because of years of failing at upgrading the OL. We signed the top available Tackle. We missed out on Norwell, who was mediocre in Jax.

If we did absolutely nothing, would that have been acceptable? If we signed a lower level FA and he was poor, would that have been looked at as a reasonable gamble?

Hell, we signed that type of guy in Omameh and people regularly use it to illustrate exactly how Gettleman is incompetent.

Thank you Bill2. That's what I was trying to get at with my previous post:

Quote:

Here's what was expected by some on this board... a new HC who either has a track record of success or has no track record at all to bring in and design a new system/philosophy, and... Success on offense and defense within the first half the season, no time for any growing pains, and... Answers to all the holes on the roster, without any mistakes made in FA or the draft, and... The 15-year solution to the most difficult position to solve (QB) is in place, and... Only saying things to the press which sound amazing to certain fans, and... Not having anything to do with anyone in this organization over the last 30 years or so, certainly not since the Giants began winning SB's. Didn't all that happen? Then it's a failure and the sooner we can FIRE the current staff and find the guys who can execute the above the better. Names? I'm not sure who, but we need someone better, that's for damn sure.

It's like many on BBI have never tried to solve a real-world complex problem involving human capital and limited resources before. Or even studied how to do it.

I couldn't agree with your last post more.

when posters say "just sign a lower level FA" and when we actually do that and the player sucks, the poster blames the GM

It really is amazing.

alternative to signing Solder would have been to do nothing, play Flowers, cut Flowers after this year, and draft a new LT. The problem is you have no clue if that LT will be good or not. Solder had experience with the best franchise in sports, was pretty much regarded as a good LT for them, and was available on the market. We paid him what the market dictated and I'm happy we did. He's a pretty good LT on our roster for the next 4 years.

I know you both think I’m negative, but I like the Solder signing. His play has improved & it looks like the left side of the line is set.

Anyone who bashed the Solder signing is not being fair. Imagine the rage if we trotted Flowers out there at LT week 1?

I just said it sucks to see a guy you spend a #9 pick on have a game like that on national TV. You delete your account.

I asked a very relevant question. Has any player improved from last year to this year on the Giants? Don't you think that is problematic? Don't you think it's problematic to watch players like Landon Collins regress and not be put in positions to maximize their talents. Don't you think it's concerning that we drafted 4 guys in the first round (JPP, Apple, Pugh, Flowers) that we labeled malcontents later? This is the same scouting staff that drafted those players. Don't you think it's concerning that we also sign big free agents like Jackrabbit and Snacks and spend a bunch of money and they are apparently malcontents too? And the other guy we paid big bucks to, Vernon hasn't looked good at all despite being one of the highest paid pass rushers.

Yeah because Apple has been largely a disappointment and finally played a complete game and I commented on it, I should leave the board. Holy shit.

You know what they say. Without hyperbole, we'd all be lost.

Get your head out of Gettleman's ass to address some of my very relevant points instead of picking out one thing in one of the most Giant slanted rants I've seen on this board. You probably work for the team. Which explains why you are such a jackass.

In comment 14226202 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

I just said it sucks to see a guy you spend a #9 pick on have a game like that on national TV. You delete your account. I asked a very relevant question. Has any player improved from last year to this year on the Giants? Don't you think that is problematic? Don't you think it's problematic to watch players like Landon Collins regress and not be put in positions to maximize their talents. Don't you think it's concerning that we drafted 4 guys in the first round (JPP, Apple, Pugh, Flowers) that we labeled malcontents later? This is the same scouting staff that drafted those players. Don't you think it's concerning that we also sign big free agents like Jackrabbit and Snacks and spend a bunch of money and they are apparently malcontents too? And the other guy we paid big bucks to, Vernon hasn't looked good at all despite being one of the highest paid pass rushers. Yeah because Apple has been largely a disappointment and finally played a complete game and I commented on it, I should leave the board. Holy shit. You know what they say. Without hyperbole, we'd all be lost. Get your head out of Gettleman's ass to address some of my very relevant points instead of picking out one thing in one of the most Giant slanted rants I've seen on this board. You probably work for the team. Which explains why you are such a jackass.

Gettleman had zero to do with drafting any of those guys.

In comment 14226182 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

does his contract have to be "justified"?? We needed either a guard or a tackle because of years of failing at upgrading the OL. We signed the top available Tackle. We missed out on Norwell, who was mediocre in Jax. If we did absolutely nothing, would that have been acceptable? If we signed a lower level FA and he was poor, would that have been looked at as a reasonable gamble? Hell, we signed that type of guy in Omameh and people regularly use it to illustrate exactly how Gettleman is incompetent.

His contract has to be justified because cap allocation is critical to the team's success and it's the GMs job. I can't believe that's a serious question.

I absolutely would have been fine signing 'pedestrian' Olineman to short-term deals on gambles. I can't speak for everyone else.

Omameh was terrible and he was paid league-average money. Is that not a fair reason to criticize DG?

DG spent a lot of money on the OL and the results have been very poor (except Hernandez, who I like a lot).

I don't think you are negative.

I think you are frustrated. We all are and you and I just express it in different ways.

You always seem to make a point and try to back it up and that's appreciated.

I think you are proving Dodge's point. NONE of the players you mentioned were drafted by the current regime. They were all Reese draft picks and free agent signings. Sure, some of the scouting staff is still here, but that means absolutely nothing. Gettleman ran the entire draft this year and it looks to be a good one.

Also, Jenkins was a very good signing. So your comment on him being a "malcontent" is bullshit. Why is he a malcontent?

In comment 14226207 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

In comment 14226202 NoGainDayne said: Quote: I just said it sucks to see a guy you spend a #9 pick on have a game like that on national TV. You delete your account. I asked a very relevant question. Has any player improved from last year to this year on the Giants? Don't you think that is problematic? Don't you think it's problematic to watch players like Landon Collins regress and not be put in positions to maximize their talents. Don't you think it's concerning that we drafted 4 guys in the first round (JPP, Apple, Pugh, Flowers) that we labeled malcontents later? This is the same scouting staff that drafted those players. Don't you think it's concerning that we also sign big free agents like Jackrabbit and Snacks and spend a bunch of money and they are apparently malcontents too? And the other guy we paid big bucks to, Vernon hasn't looked good at all despite being one of the highest paid pass rushers. Yeah because Apple has been largely a disappointment and finally played a complete game and I commented on it, I should leave the board. Holy shit. You know what they say. Without hyperbole, we'd all be lost. Get your head out of Gettleman's ass to address some of my very relevant points instead of picking out one thing in one of the most Giant slanted rants I've seen on this board. You probably work for the team. Which explains why you are such a jackass. Gettleman had zero to do with drafting any of those guys.

I keep making this point that especially today you are as good as your team. You need lots of great information from many people including tech experts, these are best practices in organizations now. He has kept largely the same staff that scouted these players. That's the issue.

In comment 14226202 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

I just said it sucks to see a guy you spend a #9 pick on have a game like that on national TV. You delete your account. I asked a very relevant question. Has any player improved from last year to this year on the Giants? Don't you think that is problematic? Don't you think it's problematic to watch players like Landon Collins regress and not be put in positions to maximize their talents. Don't you think it's concerning that we drafted 4 guys in the first round (JPP, Apple, Pugh, Flowers) that we labeled malcontents later? This is the same scouting staff that drafted those players. Don't you think it's concerning that we also sign big free agents like Jackrabbit and Snacks and spend a bunch of money and they are apparently malcontents too? And the other guy we paid big bucks to, Vernon hasn't looked good at all despite being one of the highest paid pass rushers. Yeah because Apple has been largely a disappointment and finally played a complete game and I commented on it, I should leave the board. Holy shit. You know what they say. Without hyperbole, we'd all be lost. Get your head out of Gettleman's ass to address some of my very relevant points instead of picking out one thing in one of the most Giant slanted rants I've seen on this board. You probably work for the team. Which explains why you are such a jackass.

Guy, tell me how many of those moves Gettleman made. Pugh was not a malcontent. He was injury prone and he hit his ceiling. Landon Collins is a box safety asked to do too much right now because we haven't had a good free safety since Nam. Bring in a centerfielder who can cover the deep third and watch him flourish.

In comment 14225932 Dodge said:

Quote:

Think DG really thought we were going to be competitive when he churned a giant portion of the roster in late August? DG did that. That screams building to me.

Actions don't matter, quotes in the offseason matter much more.

us that Gettleman should be held responsible for all of those players? When he wasn't even employed by the Giants? Are you high right now? (if you are...I might need some of that)

In comment 14226216 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

In comment 14226207 Britt in VA said: Quote: In comment 14226202 NoGainDayne said: Quote: I just said it sucks to see a guy you spend a #9 pick on have a game like that on national TV. You delete your account. I asked a very relevant question. Has any player improved from last year to this year on the Giants? Don't you think that is problematic? Don't you think it's problematic to watch players like Landon Collins regress and not be put in positions to maximize their talents. Don't you think it's concerning that we drafted 4 guys in the first round (JPP, Apple, Pugh, Flowers) that we labeled malcontents later? This is the same scouting staff that drafted those players. Don't you think it's concerning that we also sign big free agents like Jackrabbit and Snacks and spend a bunch of money and they are apparently malcontents too? And the other guy we paid big bucks to, Vernon hasn't looked good at all despite being one of the highest paid pass rushers. Yeah because Apple has been largely a disappointment and finally played a complete game and I commented on it, I should leave the board. Holy shit. You know what they say. Without hyperbole, we'd all be lost. Get your head out of Gettleman's ass to address some of my very relevant points instead of picking out one thing in one of the most Giant slanted rants I've seen on this board. You probably work for the team. Which explains why you are such a jackass. Gettleman had zero to do with drafting any of those guys. I keep making this point that especially today you are as good as your team. You need lots of great information from many people including tech experts, these are best practices in organizations now. He has kept largely the same staff that scouted these players. That's the issue.

Do you work with the team? How can you say so definitely you know the exact problem with the scouting department? Do you not see how moronic that sounds? They fired the GM and VP of player personnel. You realize scouts don't make the call on who they pick?

In comment 14226223 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

us that Gettleman should be held responsible for all of those players? When he wasn't even employed by the Giants? Are you high right now? (if you are...I might need some of that)

I'm saying that they should have cleaned house. I'm saying that those scouts that recommended those players are still in the building when they shouldn't be.

I'm saying that a good leader in today's world builds a competitive computer science, product management and mathmatics team in a data driven business.

I'm saying that when you make big free agent signings and first round draft picks that you label as malcontents and this number is greater than 2 or 3 (I count 7) 8 if you include DRC and Vernon both that is a big sign that the players aren't the problem it's the organization. More evidence that we really needed to clean house. You know what organization also had a bunch of malcontents? The Browns. Poor leadership breeds malcontents.

These are signs of mismanagement.

these "scouts" alongside our new GM just drafted who is probably going to be the rookie of the year on offense, one of the best rookie OL, and two defensive players in the mid rounds who look like good finds. What the hell are you talking about?

In comment 14226231 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

In comment 14226223 ryanmkeane said: Quote: us that Gettleman should be held responsible for all of those players? When he wasn't even employed by the Giants? Are you high right now? (if you are...I might need some of that) I'm saying that they should have cleaned house. I'm saying that those scouts that recommended those players are still in the building when they shouldn't be. I'm saying that a good leader in today's world builds a competitive computer science, product management and mathmatics team in a data driven business. I'm saying that when you make big free agent signings and first round draft picks that you label as malcontents and this number is greater than 2 or 3 (I count 7) 8 if you include DRC and Vernon both that is a big sign that the players aren't the problem it's the organization. More evidence that we really needed to clean house. You know what organization also had a bunch of malcontents? The Browns. Poor leadership breeds malcontents. These are signs of mismanagement.

Maybe he's taking time to evaluate them first?

is he is willing to cut bait rather quickly. Something the previous regime didn't have the stones to do.

his basic point is that a 68 year old guy doesn't know shit about analytics and even though that old fucker implemented an analytics system and team in Carolina - it must suck because again - it was an old guy leading the charge.

You need an MBA and have a LinkedIn page to even pass the low bar for understanding the incredibly complex world of stats.

In comment 14226236 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

these "scouts" alongside our new GM just drafted who is probably going to be the rookie of the year on offense, one of the best rookie OL, and two defensive players in the mid rounds who look like good finds. What the hell are you talking about?

They also made some very bad free agent calls.

Barkely was a generational talent, anyone with eyes could see that.

Hernandez and Hill were good picks but we made a lot of mistakes in free agency, didn't make a good head coaching hire. Looked poor in strategic moves (Snacks for a 5th rounder while trying to make a playoff push is just plain dumb) Sy said the return was poor that's someone people respect so let's just point that out. And as i've said, my biggest concern is that we hired a guy that makes fun of analytics when the league is rapidly modernizing. Not only does it look like we don't have those people in the building a clip like that mocking them would make them not want to work for Gettleman.

Even if he is the right guy today, which is debatable. Even ardent Gettleman supporters have to say it was a mixed bag of moves this offseason, my larger point is that other teams are building for the future and we seem stuck in the past.

What??

Quote:

Looked poor in strategic moves (Snacks for a 5th rounder while trying to make a playoff push is just plain dumb)

We were making a playoff push at 1-7?

Please make it stop.

In comment 14226245 figgy2989 said:

Quote:

is he is willing to cut bait rather quickly. Something the previous regime didn't have the stones to do.

The guy is a football nut who truly only cares about winning. That doesn't guarantee success. But the narratives people have about him are, for the most part, very foolish.

Eli
Rosas - night and day
Ellison
Engram - hard to judge with the injuries, but he's averaging 12.0 y/r (vs 11.3 y/r) and has improved his catch% to 68% (vs 55.7%).
Wynn - solid backup DE this year, bottom 5 roster guy last year
Tomlinson
Collins - not back to his 2016 level, but he had as many impact plays in 12 games this year vs all of last season

I think some other young guys that weren't part of the 2017 team have also exceeded expectations and performed better than those they replaced:
Hamilton
Dixon
Haley - looks like a solid #3 CB
Webb - potential long term slot CB/depth
Hill - steal in the 3rd
Simonson - maybe a long term #3 TE
Penny

Who's really regressed from last year?
Apple/Flowers sucked and Apple was actually playing better than last season (though not worthy of #9 overall)
Shepard - more flatlining than regressing

When 2/3 of the roster is turned over, there aren't many candidates remaining that can improve on their previous season with the team (and 3 of those were cut/traded).

In comment 14226259 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

What?? Quote: Looked poor in strategic moves (Snacks for a 5th rounder while trying to make a playoff push is just plain dumb) We were making a playoff push at 1-7? Please make it stop.

You don't trade a pro bowl player and leave in a 38 year old QB at 1-7. That is poor strategically. The 49ers and Bucs were winnable games that we could have thrown Lauletta out there to see what he had for full games. (And as i've pointed out on this thread, if not Lauletta the Gettleman regime that you all love so much should have had another young QB they were willing to try, that's what good teams do) We were playing a game against the Eagles that could have put us back in the hunt. We beat two teams with backup QBs. Yes, we made an incredibly meaningless playoff push.

if their issues are "between the ears" more than physical talent, maybe the issue isn't scouting as much as who's making the final decision. Do we know if the scouts flagged work ethic or other issues with these guys and that Reese/Ross just overruled them?

In comment 14225982 GiantGrit said:

Quote:

In comment 14225794 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: seems like an exceptionally low bar for team goals or coach evaluation. I don't see how anyone here could think management went into 2018 willing to accept marginal improvement. We went over this in preseason. Their team-building actions did not indicate that they were taking a patient, build it up approach. What specifically? And don't give me Solder. There is never a bad time to lock up one of the most important positions in football. If they didn't sign him people here would riot.

Sorry, but Solder counts. An older player who had already shown signs of his play slipping, and it was so important to them to fill that position that he wouldn't be on this roster if Norwell took their money instead.

the schedule.

At what point this year did we make a "playoff push" or even make moves in season to do so?

We traded Snacks and Apple when we were 1-7. We didn't trade Eli - not sure what the fuck your point is.

In comment 14225950 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

to this is that Eli hasn't had many atrocious games, yet everytime the team loses, he gets the lion's share of the blame: Quote: Every single week that ryanmkeane : 10:23 am : link : reply Eli has an atrocious game, it's "well the OL wasn't good" "well, the weather sucked" or "well...you can't expect him to have a great game every week" or "he made a lot of good throws too...we were close to winning that game" Hell, if he has a single turnover in a game we eventually lose, that is microanalyzed as being the reason. He led two TD drives in the final 5 minutes to take the lead in Carolina and people blamed him for an earlier turnover and for SCORING TOO QUICKLY as the main reason for the loss. His INT at the end of the first half against Philly is talked about as a 21 point momentum changing play. When he has immediate pressure and takes a sack, he gets ripped. Eli has been far from perfect. He's also far from atrocious. But that isn't the mindset of most posters. I bet a lot of people truly feel that a different QB is worth 3-4 more wins, especially a mobile QB. And I think that's horseshit.

The reduction in turnovers and interceptions is in correlation with throwing the ball in ~2 seconds and not throwing the ball far in the air. It's common sense, if I get rid of the ball fast, I don't get sacked and fumble. If the ball spends practically no time in the air, it has to be a truly horrific pass to be intercepted. It should be telling that the 2 longest passes in the air this year went for touchdowns and were thrown by our wide receiver. Went you are up 19-3 and your only job is to get points and you throw a terrible pass into quadruple coverage in the center of the field, fans will complain, that isn't micro analysis, it is a sledgehammer to the face of those watching. He cannot create anything on his own(Sy's words, I agree)

In comment 14226251 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

In comment 14226236 ryanmkeane said: Quote: these "scouts" alongside our new GM just drafted who is probably going to be the rookie of the year on offense, one of the best rookie OL, and two defensive players in the mid rounds who look like good finds. What the hell are you talking about? They also made some very bad free agent calls. Barkely was a generational talent, anyone with eyes could see that. Hernandez and Hill were good picks but we made a lot of mistakes in free agency, didn't make a good head coaching hire. Looked poor in strategic moves (Snacks for a 5th rounder while trying to make a playoff push is just plain dumb) Sy said the return was poor that's someone people respect so let's just point that out. And as i've said, my biggest concern is that we hired a guy that makes fun of analytics when the league is rapidly modernizing. Not only does it look like we don't have those people in the building a clip like that mocking them would make them not want to work for Gettleman. Even if he is the right guy today, which is debatable. Even ardent Gettleman supporters have to say it was a mixed bag of moves this offseason, my larger point is that other teams are building for the future and we seem stuck in the past.

Are you even going to entertain the fact you're wrong? Multiple people here are rebutting your opinions - maybe they are making valid points?

What is your rebuttal to the fact Snacks is 29, has a degenerative knee issue that is getting worse, and wasn't the best in the locker room?

He got SLAMMED by national media for taking Barkley, but you refuse to change your opinion so i guess we're running with "well he was really good so i don't give him credit". Don't you see how stupid that sounds?

Some of the people acting like it was clear we wouldn't compete this year were singing a different tune this off-season. And now that it failed, they're pretending it was obvious from the get-go.

Basically, everyone other than myself is full of shit.

In comment 14226279 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

In comment 14225982 GiantGrit said: Quote: In comment 14225794 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: seems like an exceptionally low bar for team goals or coach evaluation. I don't see how anyone here could think management went into 2018 willing to accept marginal improvement. We went over this in preseason. Their team-building actions did not indicate that they were taking a patient, build it up approach. What specifically? And don't give me Solder. There is never a bad time to lock up one of the most important positions in football. If they didn't sign him people here would riot. Sorry, but Solder counts. An older player who had already shown signs of his play slipping, and it was so important to them to fill that position that he wouldn't be on this roster if Norwell took their money instead.

Sorry, but he doesn't. He has been praised by all of the beat reporters for playing much better since the bye week . How is his play slipping? How can someone who is playing better as the year progresses be declining?

"He wouldn't be here if the all pro guard took our money"

...you're not wrong but where is the fault in that?

at the level he was of the last two years either. He was still better than what we have.

But this was a case of cutting a bait a year early rather than a year late, especially in a year where we werent going anywhere.

In comment 14226321 BrettNYG10 said:

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Some of the people acting like it was clear we wouldn't compete this year were singing a different tune this off-season. And now that it failed, they're pretending it was obvious from the get-go. Basically, everyone other than myself is full of shit.

Some of the people here are pretending cutting half of your team right before the season didn't signal they thought the roster sucked and that they weren't ready. In a sport where continuity and cohesiveness are crucial, the GM and HC decided to still cut half the team. You do realize the quotes being shared here are from the spring, before the summer, the period of time in which Gettleman and Shurmur watch the players in person?

The people on here, including myself, that have discussed this have yet to receive a valid response as to how that signals they were ready to win this year.

In comment 14226326 GiantGrit said:

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In comment 14226279 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 14225982 GiantGrit said: Quote: In comment 14225794 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: seems like an exceptionally low bar for team goals or coach evaluation. I don't see how anyone here could think management went into 2018 willing to accept marginal improvement. We went over this in preseason. Their team-building actions did not indicate that they were taking a patient, build it up approach. What specifically? And don't give me Solder. There is never a bad time to lock up one of the most important positions in football. If they didn't sign him people here would riot. Sorry, but Solder counts. An older player who had already shown signs of his play slipping, and it was so important to them to fill that position that he wouldn't be on this roster if Norwell took their money instead. Sorry, but he doesn't. He has been praised by all of the beat reporters for playing much better since the bye week . How is his play slipping? How can someone who is playing better as the year progresses be declining? "He wouldn't be here if the all pro guard took our money" ...you're not wrong but where is the fault in that?

He was noted for allowing a career-high number of pass pressures of season. He started off this season as bad as you can get doing the same thing, and is being praised for turning it around to acceptable levels. That's fine that he turned it around, because it would've been a worst case scenario if he didnt. Hold off on the ticker tape parade now.

In comment 14226327 dep026 said:

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at the level he was of the last two years either. He was still better than what we have. But this was a case of cutting a bait a year early rather than a year late, especially in a year where we werent going anywhere.

Exactly right. When Belichick does this, he is a genius. Why can't others see what Gettleman did?

despite changing teams. You just put him on the field and he's a wall.

Snacks is regressing?

Give me a break. He is still a game changing player.

In comment 14226347 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 14226326 GiantGrit said: Quote: In comment 14226279 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 14225982 GiantGrit said: Quote: In comment 14225794 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: seems like an exceptionally low bar for team goals or coach evaluation. I don't see how anyone here could think management went into 2018 willing to accept marginal improvement. We went over this in preseason. Their team-building actions did not indicate that they were taking a patient, build it up approach. What specifically? And don't give me Solder. There is never a bad time to lock up one of the most important positions in football. If they didn't sign him people here would riot. Sorry, but Solder counts. An older player who had already shown signs of his play slipping, and it was so important to them to fill that position that he wouldn't be on this roster if Norwell took their money instead. Sorry, but he doesn't. He has been praised by all of the beat reporters for playing much better since the bye week . How is his play slipping? How can someone who is playing better as the year progresses be declining? "He wouldn't be here if the all pro guard took our money" ...you're not wrong but where is the fault in that? He was noted for allowing a career-high number of pass pressures of season. He started off this season as bad as you can get doing the same thing, and is being praised for turning it around to acceptable levels. That's fine that he turned it around, because it would've been a worst case scenario if he didnt. Hold off on the ticker tape parade now.

So you're saying if kept playing badly, instead of improving like he did, we'd be having a different conversation? Thanks for pointing that out.

The above average left tackle is grading out as above average. There is no ticker tape parade. The people who are coming on here saying he sucks are being notified they are wrong, because they are. Don't believe me? Don't believe FMiC? Research the Giant beats that watch the all-22 who have been saying he is MUCH improved since the bye week.

are 3-13 this year. Wheres the difference maker?

In comment 14226361 NoGainDayne said:

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despite changing teams. You just put him on the field and he's a wall. Snacks is regressing? Give me a break. He is still a game changing player.

Its almost like...this was a move...for the future...

You don't wait until the aging NT with a chronic knee injury falls off a cliff to trade him, you try to sell high. I will admit only a 5th in return disappointed me as well. Don't you think they shopped him around though?

In comment 14226341 GiantGrit said:

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In comment 14226321 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: Some of the people acting like it was clear we wouldn't compete this year were singing a different tune this off-season. And now that it failed, they're pretending it was obvious from the get-go. Basically, everyone other than myself is full of shit. Some of the people here are pretending cutting half of your team right before the season didn't signal they thought the roster sucked and that they weren't ready. In a sport where continuity and cohesiveness are crucial, the GM and HC decided to still cut half the team. You do realize the quotes being shared here are from the spring, before the summer, the period of time in which Gettleman and Shurmur watch the players in person? The people on here, including myself, that have discussed this have yet to receive a valid response as to how that signals they were ready to win this year.

Were those cuts above the average for an NFL team? Above the average for a new GM?

I can be persuaded on this point - I wish it would be changed, because a lot of my pessimism about Gettleman is because I think he thought the changes he made were sufficient to make this team a playoff team.

I did not. I thought this team was a bit further away. I view it as a failure of self-evaluation. And then his FA signings have been poor. A failure of player evaluation and cap allocation.

No GM is all bad or all good. But I'm worried about the process here and think the early returns are poor.

Also, I was a fan of the Shurmur hire (he was the guy I wanted) and am completely underwhelmed so far. Game management, clock management, lack of proper Barkley usage, etc. It's frustrating.