Overall, I'm actually pretty impressed with Eli's performance this year, considering how bad the team around him is. I'm also not blind to the fact that he's going to be 38 and the Giants need to have a replacement for after 2019 or 2020 (if they extend him for salary cap purposes).
However, only a fool would view Eli as part of the problem and not part of the solution (at least for the short term). Today was a perfect example - he singlehandedly carved up the Colts defense with a shoddy offensive line and ABSOLUTELY NO RUNNING GAME TO SPEAK OF. Yes, he's had a couple bad games (first Redksins game and Titans game) and a few brutally awful moments (INT in 2nd Eagles game) but otherwise he's shown to be a more than capable quarterback and appears to be rejuvenated after a rough 2017 campaign.
I know some of the mouth-breathers and fantasy football geeks on here are trying to run him out of town (strangely without presenting a feasible succession plan) just like they did with Coughlin 3 years ago. Eli is asbolutely not without flaws and deserves his fair share of criticism but he still gives the Giants the best chance to compete and hopefully win next year.
THE BOTTOM LINE: Eli may no longer be a top-tier QB but he's more than servicable and Shurmur has finally figured out how to use him appropriately (i.e. more under center, play-action, rollouts). Many of the players STARTING for the Giants this season would be hard-pressed to make the 53-man roster of most other teams and that's an unfortunate fact. If your heart doesn't break for Eli and the situtation he's been put in for the last several years, you have a very warped view of reality. Get him a competent offensive line and SOME/ANY talent on the defensive side of the ball next year and the Giants can be a playoff team again with Eli at the helm.
I don't think Eli will hold them back overall (some games he will lose vs an as of now unknown alternative and some games he will very likely be better than any rookie available slots 4-12).
The problem with this transition is that we will have a rookie learning in 2020.
Which means BBI will be heavy with the unreasonable expectations until 2021.
Agreed, 2021 is the first year we can hope to have hope, and even then we have to make all the right moves, and have nothing disastrous happen.
Just like other positions this current roster the team needs to move on. They have great skill positions and some youth on D but this team is 2-3 years from being a winnng franchise. Eli has done all he can and we can’t expect perfect teams to make him better Call me a mouth breather if you want but I remember Simms, Hoss and Collins all getting us to SBs and I am here to tell you this feeling that you have regarding Eli will pass. There is an end to his story. But it may not be a fairy tale ending.
There now exists a feeling on BBI that Eli needs a perfect cast around him to succeed. I’m not even asking for perfect. I’m asking for an offensive line that is merely above average. I’m asking for a defense that makes one stop when it counts and can actually sack a quarterback on a somewhat regular basis. And the great news is, that if we get those two things, we make it a much easier situation for Justin Herbert, Dwayne Haskins, Tua Tagavoila, Jake Fromm, or whoever succeeds Eli.
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All this other talent we need to add for Eli to be successful at this stage in his career is going to cost money - at least a good chunk of it will. We probably can’t create a bulletproof roster AND pay Eli $23M. A $23M QB SHOULD be able to make do with a less than perfect roster.
Unfortunately, Eli is a game manager at this point. He can still make some plays but he’s not a top tier QB any more - in fact, even during his “good” three quarters today he was missing opportunities for bigger plays (opportunities that I like to think he would make 5 years ago). And his skills will continue to gradually deteriorate with each year.
Vernon’s cap hit is 19.5 million next year. Where’s the faux outrage over his cap number?
The Giants don’t need Eli’s money for anything. If they do, cut Vernon.
Cut Vernon too. Who’s saying we must keep Vernon? If the Giants brass thinks Vernon has years left (he just turned 28) maybe restructure him for a more cap friendly/cuttable in a year deal. If not, cut him and spend the cap money on better, more reliable talent. Or roll the cap money over.
How sorry was this OL Eli endured? (Dangerfield voice) James Brewer managed to stay on the roster through his entire rookie contract! Not only were Reese and Ross clueless about OL, their vanity kept absolute garbage losers in roster spots. Guys who had no business being on a NFL squad.
This record must be owned by Eli and is part of his career. He is now also football old and the team is still losing. It is perfectly reasonable for the Giants to make a move at QB and go in a different direction.
What seems false to me is the narrative that Eli has been the central reason this team is in the shitter. That if only the Giants had a younger more mobile QB all the team's problems would be gone. Wins would pile up once the anchor that is Eli is gone. That Eli has been garbage for years. A game manager for years, which is not true. Eli and the passing game was the strength of this team.
With this new HC the offense has become a real unit again. Of course having Barkley helps, but over all these seasons it is really only 2013, where the roster collapse the team is STILL trying to correct occurred, and the Mcadoo era where the Eli offense has sucked.
So I agree the Eli can't play narrative or the Eli is yhe albatross around this team's neck and a younger mobile QB is the cure is garbage. If you do think that then do bkot worry, you will suffer only one more season or maybe one more week and you will have your wish for a shiny new QB.
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Oh yea many on this forum. Eli can still play, the problem is people give up and said he done every time he has a bad game. Do many he realize how bad and shitty the Giants Oline was??! The Oline is improving, but still needs better players to really see what Eli and this offense can really do.
How sorry was this OL Eli endured? (Dangerfield voice) James Brewer managed to stay on the roster through his entire rookie contract! Not only were Reese and Ross clueless about OL, their vanity kept absolute garbage losers in roster spots. Guys who had no business being on a NFL squad.
Even this year, the Giants cut the s tree starting right side of the line out of camp. Solder was horrific many games early as well.
+1000
An inconvenient truth my friend.
This record must be owned by Eli and is part of his career. He is now also football old and the team is still losing. It is perfectly reasonable for the Giants to make a move at QB and go in a different direction.
What seems false to me is the narrative that Eli has been the central reason this team is in the shitter. That if only the Giants had a younger more mobile QB all the team's problems would be gone. Wins would pile up once the anchor that is Eli is gone. That Eli has been garbage for years. A game manager for years, which is not true. Eli and the passing game was the strength of this team.
With this new HC the offense has become a real unit again. Of course having Barkley helps, but over all these seasons it is really only 2013, where the roster collapse the team is STILL trying to correct occurred, and the Mcadoo era where the Eli offense has sucked.
So I agree the Eli can't play narrative or the Eli is yhe albatross around this team's neck and a younger mobile QB is the cure is garbage. If you do think that then do bkot worry, you will suffer only one more season or maybe one more week and you will have your wish for a shiny new QB.
Well said... great post!
Next, if you're interested in winning next season, you can be pretty sure you're not going to do it with any of the qb's who will be available when we pick in next year's draft. So you'll have to sign a veteran qb. Anyone who's any good will want a multi-year contract over $20 million per year. So you'll be paying at least $10 million more for a qb who probably won't be as good as Eli. Certainly not much better.
Why is this so hard for some people to understand?
I lived through the "fly a blimp over the stadium era" This team is not as bad as some of those teams
Next, if you're interested in winning next season, you can be pretty sure you're not going to do it with any of the qb's who will be available when we pick in next year's draft. So you'll have to sign a veteran qb. Anyone who's any good will want a multi-year contract over $20 million per year. So you'll be paying at least $10 million more for a qb who probably won't be as good as Eli. Certainly not much better.
Why is this so hard for some people to understand?
$23,200,000 Cap Number
12.2% Cap %
$6,200,000 Dead Money &
$17,000,000 Cap Savings, pre June 1
https://overthecap.com/player/eli-manning/865/
If they bring him back, ask him to take a pay cut if he wants to be here in 2019, not a re-structure.
I know I would like them to move on, but...
I would not agree with the premise that any QB brought in as a free agent, would command over 20 mill.
Just to give you one example, Bridgewater made 5 mill.
this season, and has been holding a clipboard all year!
Whether he can still play is not the issue. He is old. He is slow, immobile, needs near perfect protection and has always been inconsistent in his accuracy. Let him stay if necessary but restructure the contract and draft or get in free agency his replacement. By no measure is Eli worth the money anymore and it is past time for the Giants to get his successor. People are ready to get rid of Jenkins, OV and Solder--and for good reason with their performance not matching their contracts.
It will take 2-3 years for a replacement to develop. Meanwhile,Beckham is going to get older. Barkley will get older, as will Shepard and Engram. How many more losing seasons do you want?
Whether he can still play is not the issue. He is old. He is slow, immobile, needs near perfect protection and has always been inconsistent in his accuracy. Let him stay if necessary but restructure the contract and draft or get in free agency his replacement. By no measure is Eli worth the money anymore and it is past time for the Giants to get his successor. People are ready to get rid of Jenkins, OV and Solder--and for good reason with their performance not matching their contracts.
It will take 2-3 years for a replacement to develop. Meanwhile,Beckham is going to get older. Barkley will get older, as will Shepard and Engram. How many more losing seasons do you want?
You don't re-structure a 38 y/o QB with one year left
on his deal...You ask him to take a pay cut, period.
I hope we don't pick one this year, just because we need one, and he is not really there...
He’s playinf next to wheeler and a revolving door of garbage at center. Thank god you are not an nfl scout
Eli has shown that he can be a stopgap QB until we can find a replacement. no one is saying not to look for the replacement.
Bonehead interceptions have been part of Eli's game from the beginning. Him not being able to carry the team is nothing new, hence all those years of not making the playoffs or going one and done. Love the 2 rings, but face it, the guy so many think is a HOF has always had some serious warts. But he has been a good QB, and still is good enough to hold the reins until we find someone better to replace him.
Last year doesn't matter. Whether the Giants were blinded by the brilliance of Barkley, or whether they truly weren't sold on any of the draft prospects, that's in the past. You don't draft a QB now because you made a mistake last year. You draft one if he's worth drafting.
When you think about the fact that Indy was challenging Eli to beat them by putting 8 men the box every time.. and Eli has success but never really threatened them enough to back off and many of his good plays were off play action.. it tells you that other teams are daring him to beat them and he is unable to do this.. he is barely a game manager now..Numbers look good yesterday but if he was truly having a good game yesterday it didn't register with Indy's defense..
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He has his good games but they are becoming less frequent. He can’t create on his own and his deep ball is suspect. I’ve been a long time Eli homer, but I’m ready to move on.
When you think about the fact that Indy was challenging Eli to beat them by putting 8 men the box every time.. and Eli has success but never really threatened them enough to back off and many of his good plays were off play action.. it tells you that other teams are daring him to beat them and he is unable to do this.. he is barely a game manager now..Numbers look good yesterday but if he was truly having a good game yesterday it didn't register with Indy's defense..
Um, huh?
An inconvenient truth my friend.
LMFAO
No way to make that call right now. Remember when Wentz was going to be killing the NFC East for years to come. You are not a franchise QB until you are a franchise QB. Darnold is nothing more than a rookie with a ton to prove.
Eli has shown that he can be a stopgap QB until we can find a replacement. no one is saying not to look for the replacement.
Bonehead interceptions have been part of Eli's game from the beginning. Him not being able to carry the team is nothing new, hence all those years of not making the playoffs or going one and done. Love the 2 rings, but face it, the guy so many think is a HOF has always had some serious warts. But he has been a good QB, and still is good enough to hold the reins until we find someone better to replace him.
Last year doesn't matter. Whether the Giants were blinded by the brilliance of Barkley, or whether they truly weren't sold on any of the draft prospects, that's in the past. You don't draft a QB now because you made a mistake last year. You draft one if he's worth drafting.
I agree.. you draft the best player available.. just like last year.. The only thing I would add is that we give some of the others a chance.. you can't possible think that after 5 throws, Kyle's NFL career is over.. lets get him out there and if he bombs then he bombs..
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In comment 14231825 Pascal4554 said:
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He has his good games but they are becoming less frequent. He can’t create on his own and his deep ball is suspect. I’ve been a long time Eli homer, but I’m ready to move on.
When you think about the fact that Indy was challenging Eli to beat them by putting 8 men the box every time.. and Eli has success but never really threatened them enough to back off and many of his good plays were off play action.. it tells you that other teams are daring him to beat them and he is unable to do this.. he is barely a game manager now..Numbers look good yesterday but if he was truly having a good game yesterday it didn't register with Indy's defense..
Um, huh?
Its pretty clear what I am saying.. Defenses are no longer scared of our passing game.. that tell you all you need to know about Eli..
2008? 2009? It's so long ago, that who can even remember
That is what Reese and Ross have done to this team with a franchise QB who was never a runner.
Eli is 38, he isn't getting more mobile. But he hasn't lost as much as many think he has. He just needs some semblance of protection, and a threat of a running game, and operates best when he has a big target to throw to. He doesn't need everything to be perfect. He just needs a chance.
The Giants should b looking for his replacement and probably should have taken Darnold. But I think the idea that Eli is a main reason for the team's struggles is bunk.
What about the last 7 years?
What about the last 7 years?
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If we take the Super Bowls out of the equation, would you be ok with the QB play and record over the past three seasons?
What about the last 7 years?
Exactly. 2011 isn’t coming back. Eli’s recent past is losing football with a whole lot of excuses from fans.
This board loves to rip on Stafford and Ryan, but we’re not getting much better QB play than that, if at all.
Would we be okay with Stafford or Ryan as our QB?
Are we ok with what we have there?
What about the last 7 years?
My issue hasn't been with the QB play. It has been with the complete disaster that has been the offensive line such that a pocket-passing QB couldn't possibly succeed.
Tom Brady is better than Eli. But if Brady played behind this line for the last 7 seasons, we would be saying the same things. He might have performed better, but not in any meaningful way. It would have looked like those games where defenses get pressure on the Pats up the middle and Brady couldn't do anything and he isn't a scrambler. It would have been similar to how the most dangerous offense perhaps ever only put up 14 points in the Super Bowl.
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If we take the Super Bowls out of the equation, would you be ok with the QB play and record over the past three seasons?
What about the last 7 years?
My issue hasn't been with the QB play. It has been with the complete disaster that has been the offensive line such that a pocket-passing QB couldn't possibly succeed.
Tom Brady is better than Eli. But if Brady played behind this line for the last 7 seasons, we would be saying the same things. He might have performed better, but not in any meaningful way. It would have looked like those games where defenses get pressure on the Pats up the middle and Brady couldn't do anything and he isn't a scrambler. It would have been similar to how the most dangerous offense perhaps ever only put up 14 points in the Super Bowl.
Well done Paul. You rarely disappoint.
Are we ok with what we have there?
Just because we’re deficient in other areas doesn’t mean we can’t want to improve another deficiency.
You seem to want to plug every hole on the roster, which is impossible. Every roster has holes. The difference consistent and improved QB play can make is much higher.
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Is we have massive holes on defense and in the OL.
Are we ok with what we have there?
Just because we’re deficient in other areas doesn’t mean we can’t want to improve another deficiency.
You seem to want to plug every hole on the roster, which is impossible. Every roster has holes. The difference consistent and improved QB play can make is much higher.
Not with this OL. And what’s Rodgers excuse? Matt Ryan’s? Stafford?
If this is going to be Barkley’s team... you need to ground and pound. AnOL and defense are essential... no?
into for a throw? Until this season, how would Tom Brady breakdown a defense that sits in Cover 2 and still stuffs the run on every play and gets pressure with 4-man rushers? He doesn't get to bring Bill or Dante Scarnecchia with him either.
into for a throw? Until this season, how would Tom Brady breakdown a defense that sits in Cover 2 and still stuffs the run on every play and gets pressure with 4-man rushers? He doesn't get to bring Bill or Dante Scarnecchia with him either.
The Giants would be a better team the last three years with Brady at QB,
however you’re choosing the exception not the rule. The way the Pats are run has kept Brady successful.
This team would be better over the last three years with a number of QBs in the league. The point is you’re capping your ceiling and delaying your next Super Bowl window by keeping Eli around. Like BW said, at best what are you - a 9 win team?
If they were to draft a QB at some point this year we’d see the same thing where they would play Eli the whole year because “they aren’t mathematically eliminated” and the young QB doesn’t take his lumps until 2020 instead of 2019, which delays the next Super Bowl window.
Eli Manning is no longer the future of the franchise, and the occasional wow game doesn’t prove he still has it. It’s time to start finding the next QB, whether via the draft, free agency, or trade, so that you’re not wasting Barkley and Odell’s primes.
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In comment 14232010 dep026 said:
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Is we have massive holes on defense and in the OL.
Are we ok with what we have there?
Just because we’re deficient in other areas doesn’t mean we can’t want to improve another deficiency.
You seem to want to plug every hole on the roster, which is impossible. Every roster has holes. The difference consistent and improved QB play can make is much higher.
Not with this OL. And what’s Rodgers excuse? Matt Ryan’s? Stafford?
If this is going to be Barkley’s team... you need to ground and pound. AnOL and defense are essential... no?
Two of those QBs have put their team in contention for a Super Bowl the past 5 years. The Giants have 1 playoff appearance. One off year by the Packers and Falcons does not equate to the Giants season.
Again, if we flipped Eli with Ryan or Stafford would we be ok with the QB performance?
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In comment 14231990 ajr2456 said:
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If we take the Super Bowls out of the equation, would you be ok with the QB play and record over the past three seasons?
What about the last 7 years?
Exactly. 2011 isn’t coming back. Eli’s recent past is losing football with a whole lot of excuses from fans.
This board loves to rip on Stafford and Ryan, but we’re not getting much better QB play than that, if at all.
Would we be okay with Stafford or Ryan as our QB?
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In comment 14232001 UberAlias said:
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In comment 14231990 ajr2456 said:
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If we take the Super Bowls out of the equation, would you be ok with the QB play and record over the past three seasons?
What about the last 7 years?
Exactly. 2011 isn’t coming back. Eli’s recent past is losing football with a whole lot of excuses from fans.
This board loves to rip on Stafford and Ryan, but we’re not getting much better QB play than that, if at all.
Would we be okay with Stafford or Ryan as our QB?
I never said they should draft a QB just to draft one, did I? I said they need to move in from Eli. It’s time to move on. He’s too much of a distraction and clouds the organizations judgement.
I was agreeing with you?
It's easy to say draft one, but there has to be one worth drafting what if there isn't?
It's easy to say pick up a vet. From where? decent QBs don't hit FA very often. Are there any stopgap players that are going to be any better? Usually what you deal with in this area is garbage vets for whom there's a reason they're available. Usually teams muddle along with subpar QB performance until one is available in the draft.
No one is saying don't move on from Eli. they're saying he's good enough until we can move on. We are not desperate for a QB. We want a new one, and I'd wager that the Giants are looking for a new one. Staying with Eli doesn't mean the Giants are content with him.
The Giants do need to find the next QB. They should have released Eli years ago to do a total rebuild and let him go to a team with a better situation that needed a QB. Win-win for everyone.
I agree that the Patriots system has been propping up Brady. Were he here, people would have been calling to move on from him for years.
But that's my point. If Brady, or any number of pocket-passing QBs were mired in the dogshit that has been the Giants offensive line and front-office strategy over the last decade, they would all look like QBs that need to be moved on from.
The big issue now is Eli's age. By the time the line could potentially get good, Eli will be at least 40 and will the GIants have a QB replacement by then who is ready to step in while the line is good and before Barkley gets a huge contract?
So this week the story is only wins and losses matter. Next week when we win the story will be a bad pass somewhere.