Overall, I'm actually pretty impressed with Eli's performance this year, considering how bad the team around him is. I'm also not blind to the fact that he's going to be 38 and the Giants need to have a replacement for after 2019 or 2020 (if they extend him for salary cap purposes).
However, only a fool would view Eli as part of the problem and not part of the solution (at least for the short term). Today was a perfect example - he singlehandedly carved up the Colts defense with a shoddy offensive line and ABSOLUTELY NO RUNNING GAME TO SPEAK OF. Yes, he's had a couple bad games (first Redksins game and Titans game) and a few brutally awful moments (INT in 2nd Eagles game) but otherwise he's shown to be a more than capable quarterback and appears to be rejuvenated after a rough 2017 campaign.
I know some of the mouth-breathers and fantasy football geeks on here are trying to run him out of town (strangely without presenting a feasible succession plan) just like they did with Coughlin 3 years ago. Eli is asbolutely not without flaws and deserves his fair share of criticism but he still gives the Giants the best chance to compete and hopefully win next year.
THE BOTTOM LINE: Eli may no longer be a top-tier QB but he's more than servicable and Shurmur has finally figured out how to use him appropriately (i.e. more under center, play-action, rollouts). Many of the players STARTING for the Giants this season would be hard-pressed to make the 53-man roster of most other teams and that's an unfortunate fact. If your heart doesn't break for Eli and the situtation he's been put in for the last several years, you have a very warped view of reality. Get him a competent offensive line and SOME/ANY talent on the defensive side of the ball next year and the Giants can be a playoff team again with Eli at the helm.
So this week the story is only wins and losses matter. Next week when we win the story will be a bad pass somewhere.
Because you box score scout without context.
But the QB is also part of holding them back. Him being a limited player at this point limits what you can do on offense and how you can scheme around other deficiencies
The points about Brady and other pocket QB's is accurate. They would struggle with this crap team as well and in likely would have been injured since Eli appears indestructable.
In fact Eli's amazing durability plays into the criticism of him since we have never seen how another QB would look.
That Shepard pass wasnt good? Ok...
And what WRs played yesterday are good consistent deep ball throwers? And who on the OL blocks for more than 3 seconds to let those WRs get deep?
So instead of 400 yards and 28 points, he threw for over 300 and 27 points. Bastid!
The points about Brady and other pocket QB's is accurate. They would struggle with this crap team as well and in likely would have been injured since Eli appears indestructable.
In fact Eli's amazing durability plays into the criticism of him since we have never seen how another QB would look.
Yea, no other QB gets pressure up the middle. Russel Wilson faces zero pressure up the middle last night.
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prime group. Who threw him all those passes to allow hima historic stat wise to his career. May have made him more too if could have stepped up in the last playoff game instead of shitting the bed in the biggest game of his career to date.
The points about Brady and other pocket QB's is accurate. They would struggle with this crap team as well and in likely would have been injured since Eli appears indestructable.
In fact Eli's amazing durability plays into the criticism of him since we have never seen how another QB would look.
Yea, no other QB gets pressure up the middle. Russel Wilson faces zero pressure up the middle last night.
Yeah, especially on those plays were the announcers replayed him getting over 5 seconds to throw. Felt bad for Russ.
Of course the GIants offense would be better with that kind of skill set. But Eli hasn't been able to do that this season, last season, five seasons, ago, ten seasons ago, in college... ever.
Theoretically, any player who isn't the best at his position-- or isn't the best value with his contract could be improved.
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In comment 14232153 rocco8112 said:
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prime group. Who threw him all those passes to allow hima historic stat wise to his career. May have made him more too if could have stepped up in the last playoff game instead of shitting the bed in the biggest game of his career to date.
The points about Brady and other pocket QB's is accurate. They would struggle with this crap team as well and in likely would have been injured since Eli appears indestructable.
In fact Eli's amazing durability plays into the criticism of him since we have never seen how another QB would look.
Yea, no other QB gets pressure up the middle. Russel Wilson faces zero pressure up the middle last night.
Yeah, especially on those plays were the announcers replayed him getting over 5 seconds to throw. Felt bad for Russ.
And there were a bunch of plays he got pressure up the middle and bought himself 5 seconds to throw.
Every QB gets pressure up the middle so the idea by whoever posted it that “no other QB could do well with the pressure Eli gets up the middle” is a flat out lie. Every QB gets pressure up the middle. Every QB gets pressure off the edge.
Of course the GIants offense would be better with that kind of skill set. But Eli hasn't been able to do that this season, last season, five seasons, ago, ten seasons ago, in college... ever.
Theoretically, any player who isn't the best at his position-- or isn't the best value with his contract could be improved.
That’s exactly the point. It’s harder to get by because he can’t buy himself time. Now the other parts of his game are starting to diminish which makes it even harder to get by.
The offensive line would need less of a fix if we had a QB who could at least by himself time. We don’t need Russel Wilson or Mahomes, a player with the athleticism of Darnold would be fine - as he did a solid job of avoiding pressure yesterday.
However, to think Eli is not declining and is not on his last legs, you’d be ignoring the data. He is at the bottom of the league in QBR. Plus, with Eli as starting QB over the past two seasons, the Giants are 8-24.
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That's exactly what the Colts did and that's what everyone's going to do. That's why the shephard pass was there. Even the best offensive lines have a hard time defeating an 8-man box. What defeats an eight-man box is a QB that can throw deep with accuracy. We don't have that. The shephard pass was not a great pass. This is why Saquan rookie of the year campaign has slowed down. It's the kind of defense Eli has to throw for 400 yards and four TDS against in today's NFL. It's the whole reason you create a dominant running game. He just isn't good enough. Expect to see Dallas do the same thing.
That Shepard pass wasnt good? Ok...
And what WRs played yesterday are good consistent deep ball throwers? And who on the OL blocks for more than 3 seconds to let those WRs get deep?
So instead of 400 yards and 28 points, he threw for over 300 and 27 points. Bastid!
I guess Barkley shit the bed too. We gave him the ball to pick up a key first down, the ball to ice the game 3 straight times and a pass on the comeback and he couldn’t even get out of bounds. Damn him!
It’s funny you say you’re a giants fan most, but only post about Eli? And before you come back with claws... Barkley was not responsible for our loss whatsoever. I was just using your logic. Hopefully you see how bizarre it is... but I doubt it.
However, to think Eli is not declining and is not on his last legs, you’d be ignoring the data. He is at the bottom of the league in QBR. Plus, with Eli as starting QB over the past two seasons, the Giants are 8-24.
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Good summation.
I guess Barkley shit the bed too. We gave him the ball to pick up a key first down, the ball to ice the game 3 straight times and a pass on the comeback and he couldn’t even get out of bounds. Damn him!
It’s funny you say you’re a giants fan most, but only post about Eli? And before you come back with claws... Barkley was not responsible for our loss whatsoever. I was just using your logic. Hopefully you see how bizarre it is... but I doubt it.
We see how bizarre it is, but it’s not what you think
If he is the best choice for next year so be it. Giants need to rebuild the team but Eli is a stop gap and not part of the solution. Maybe he will quit after the year and do everyone a big favor.
[quote] Darnold is turning into a franchise quarterback:
An inconvenient truth my friend. [/
So is Matt Stafford. How have the Lions been during his tenure. Inconvenient is how stupid most of he posters are. Andrew Luck is amazing. An actual franchise stud QB. Colts. God this site is full of morons .
You want to compare a bad o-line to if Brees or Rivers were here... fine. But Brady would still perform with this line, obviously. Just stop.
It’s so simple.
It’s so simple.
Let me take a crack at this.
Because keeping Eli is a waste of cap dollars. Let’s spend those dollars on more pressing needs.
We aren’t going to do anything significant with Eli again. Let’s stop being delicate trying to manufacture a fairytale ending.
So let’s skip all the traditions - giving Eli a proper goodbye, having a pass the baton plan, etc - and take off the training wheels with the young prospect. And let them play, like the Jets did with Darnold. Get right into the deep end of the pool.
But even if ARod behind Favre for 3 years doesn't happen anymore... you can't tell me Mahomes didn't benefit sitting behind Smith for 15 games last year. Or Goff - even under the idiot fisher - at least sitting and taking in the league most of his rookie year either.
Also - mayfield and Darnold have already been ordained perennial pro bowlers ... as we all took in Josh Johnson or whatever his name is Saturday, I will remind you Year 2 is usually a much tougher test for a young qb than the rookie season.
Or until a great option presents itself. There were a few in this past draft. Not a lot innthis one and looks like a boat load in 2020.
We will get one. To quote a famous dick but a great player...
R-E-L-A-X
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Why the fuck can’t the giants do both. Draft a kid qb , keep Eli. Play Eli early. Win for Eli, great. Lose for Eli, play the kid.
It’s so simple.
Let me take a crack at this.
Because keeping Eli is a waste of cap dollars. Let’s spend those dollars on more pressing needs.
We aren’t going to do anything significant with Eli again. Let’s stop being delicate trying to manufacture a fairytale ending.
So let’s skip all the traditions - giving Eli a proper goodbye, having a pass the baton plan, etc - and take off the training wheels with the young prospect. And let them play, like the Jets did with Darnold. Get right into the deep end of the pool.
Well we have a new GM. maybe he negotiates a better deal for two more years and they can draft a QB like KC did and extend him a year and cut next year’s dollars to a less wasteful amount. Again how many Playoff wins does Detroit Tampa and Tenn have since they got their “franchise” QBs? Then Passing on your man crush is getting to you.
I think you should just become a Jet fan since you’ve got Darnolditis and have him enshrined in Canton and have the Jets on the correct trajectory. You hate the Giants for passing on him. Make the switch. I think you will be happier.
OP thinks the Giants will be a playoff team again WITH Eli.
That isn't exactly "well, there aren't better options just yet - but we still need to address it ASAP"
That is "I think he can still play and still want him starting for the forseeable future" and the exact reason why it's going to be so difficult to move on from Eli - because there are fans like these who will find any reason under the stars to believe he's still the guy to move forward with.
It's like some guy who keeps romanticizing and finding "signs" even after he's already been dumped. The sentimentality aspect is pretty clearly the largest hurdle. All you need to do is read this board on any given day.
OP thinks the Giants will be a playoff team again WITH Eli.
That isn't exactly "well, there aren't better options just yet - but we still need to address it ASAP"
That is "I think he can still play and still want him starting for the forseeable future" and the exact reason why it's going to be so difficult to move on from Eli - because there are fans like these who will find any reason under the stars to believe he's still the guy to move forward with.
It's like some guy who keeps romanticizing and finding "signs" even after he's already been dumped. The sentimentality aspect is pretty clearly the largest hurdle. All you need to do is read this board on any given day.
We can compete well with Eli with a better OL given his toys he has to work with, imo. Regardless, we Need a future QB to develop asap
I have seen very HOF qb since Unitas retire. They retire when either their arms are totally shot or they start getting hurt all the time and far more common is the latter. Neither has happened with Manning. He will be here and starting next season.
The giants traded good players at the deadline. They obviously tried to move guys, maybe other teams didn’t offer enough? We know they didn’t take the 3rd for Collins and who can blame them they might get the 3rd if he merely leaves as a FA.
The giants swapped out dozens of players and virtually flipped the roster upside down. They didn’t trade a qb with their first round pick. That and only that fact has forced so many people into thinking the giants stayed the course. This is just false. How does a team stay the course and replace nearly everyone? They fired the HC, GM and replaced more than half the team including many prominent players. And even the GM hiring has people talking shit about old guards and comfortable decisions. DG has his own philosophy just like any other GM. What difference does it make if he’s a familiar face to Mara. He’s his own GM.
Giants just need players. Stop overthinking this shit. If Eli can play well some of the time and virtually never embarrass himself out there you can win with him if you insulate him well enough, just like any other player and position with varying degrees. Some players need to be protected more than others but Eli can still play. Of course we could do better at qb, we could also do much much worse.
The oline was terrible. Now it’s merely below average and the results have changed over the last 8 weeks or so. The peaks have been longer and better the valleys have been fewer in number. Still need improvement but the O looks much better lately. The qb isn’t a problem but a young good talent should be brought in sooner than later.
Plenty of qbs have lost for years and then won again. And we forget Eli won two years ago.
Plenty of qbs have lost for years and then won again. And we forget Eli won two years ago.
Did Eli win though? The offense was god awful and was carried by Odell housing slant passes, and a top end defense.
It does make a difference what the five guys in front of Eli do.
And to those who say there isn’t a better option - bullshit. The cloud of Eli is causing this franchise to be stuck in neutral.
Even a poster like Dep made a thread saying Eli should make his LAST start as a Giant for the home game against WSH.
Britt made a post after the first Eagle game saying Eli should be done here.
The constant analyzation of Eli’s play is putting this franchise in a complete stand still.
The Giants will never be a playoff team again with Eli at the helm. Never...
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Get him a competent offensive line and SOME/ANY talent on the defensive side of the ball next year and the Giants can be a playoff team again with Eli at the helm.
The Giants will never be a playoff team again with Eli at the helm. Never...
This is just an asinine statement.
they may make the playoffs. they won’t make it on his back anymore, but at this point let’s hope the team improves and the Giants bring in more comp at qb.
the most likely outcome is 5 to 7 wins and the official band aid rio in 2020.
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Get him a competent offensive line and SOME/ANY talent on the defensive side of the ball next year and the Giants can be a playoff team again with Eli at the helm.
The Giants will never be a playoff team again with Eli at the helm. Never...
This is just an asinine statement.
It's correct.
they may make the playoffs. they won’t make it on his back anymore, but at this point let’s hope the team improves and the Giants bring in more comp at qb.
the most likely outcome is 5 to 7 wins and the official band aid rio in 2020.
Agree with everything, except the comment "they may make the playoffs". Unless "may" means some silly 1% chance...
Eli may be here next year, but imo there should be a point to him being here.
Not out of respect for Eli.
What purpose does he serve? Is he mentoring a new QB? Or are they going all in to try and make the playoffs?
If he's not doing one of these two things, he shouldn't be on the team because at that point he is just delaying the Giants path to success.
To bring him back because "there's nothing better" is the worst outcome for a team. It will drive them to a similar mediocre situation with no end in sight.
To bring him back because "there's nothing better" is the worst outcome for a team. It will drive them to a similar mediocre situation with no end in sight.
100% in agreement. Lack of a some clearcut better option doesn't compute to bringing Eli back.
Its a sure-fire path to wasting yet another year...
With this team THIS year. Of course it’s true. But are you telling me with improvements on the OL and some help on defense we can’t compete?
Let’s look at the OP’s topic here: Eli has been 19 games under .500 in the last six years here. A legendary HC, his replacement, and a 10-yr/two-ring GM did not survive this epic failure; Eli did. He turns 38 in two weeks. The team had the #2 overall pick, the 2nd time in 36 years, and it happened to the strongest QB class in 30 years. Yet, the team did not choose his replacement, they chose generational talent who can most divert opponent’s attention from Eli.
So the end result is exactly what the OP stated: at 38, at 19-games under .500 over the last six years, at a $23M cal hit, and with his replacement not current on the roster and not even on the 2019 draft, Eli is the best choice to start yet another season for the NY Giants. Absurdly, there is no other choice for the team!!!
Fuck anyone who dare to denigrate our beloved Eli as not being the luckiest and most blessed player over his 15 year in the entire NFL.
This is pure Bullshit. 100%
The next QB is in a can’t lose situation. If he comes in and sucks... well we weren’t making the playoffs with Eli anyways. If he throws an INT, well Eli threw a lot. If he makes a play out of pocket... we’ll eli couldn’t do that. If he wins... see we needed to replace Eli.
The next QB is in a perfect blameless situation.