say what you want about Apple and Snacks, they can play football and would have helped considerably in the stretch, would it have mattered? No clue, but we were a weaker team for giving them up.
the defense needs a massive talent upgrade.
not that the offense is great, as most of the points and yards occurred when the season was over... so they still count.... but when the season mattered, the offense stunk as well- and blew games.
the team juts isnt good- blaming 1 guy or 1 side is pointless.
the QB is old and needs to be replaced- this year or in the next 2.
the OL needs another good player.
the defense needs 5 starters
on the positive side we have the best kicker in the league
made a huge impact and I think Shurmur and Eli both took too much criticism for offensive issues (they’re not blameless however).
The truth is a lot of yardage and points came in come from behind and garbage time. I think this is also a tad skewed from a division perspective given the Redskins went into the toilet after Smith’s injury and Eagles have had some of their key personnel missing on offense (OL, RB) and unsettled QB play at the early part of the season.
It does show how horrific the defense was overall. Also shows how Beckham is not the end all be all. We can score and win without him now.
for the Gianst season I would say 50 percent defense, 30 percent OL, 10 percent Eli, 10 percent Shurmur clock management/playcalling (although I thought he greatly improved as the season went on. How much of that was improved OL play IDK). So did Eli play a roll? Yes. But to me he is 3rd on the list of culprits and way down as far as responsibility
Has been set for 2019, a few more pieces on defense and the Giants are contenders. Where have I heard this bandaid approach before? Let me know if the Giants are still in it by Halloween, I’ll even be a little more generous, Columbus Day.
if you can't see what you have become on BBI, I can't help you.
at least embrace it. it will make you more endearing.
I am not really concerned what people think of me here. Never really have. There are tons of people who I respect and interact with. I just love the posters who consistently point out my “agenda” but stay silent on the opposite viewpoint. And that’s fine. That’s what makes forums so great.
Hitdog post was a great one. I’ll add this. You can have prime around Rodgers and it won’t mean a hill of beans unless you fix what has been the most constant thing in our hapless 7 years outside 1.
A terrible defense.
RE: RE: Well when you have a Qb eating up a huge amount of cap Â
Um Brees has a big cap hit... how’s their defense doing? SDs?
The difference is Brees and Rivers played up to those big cap # ..
Eli didn’t and when the games mattered the Giants couldn’t score points..
Also take a look at the garbage time TDs the Giants scored against Atl and Dallas when the game was already decided
that the Giants have a QB who is 38, entering the last year of his contract and has real deficiencies. If there is a QB they have confidence can be successful, they need to take him. Otherwise, draft emphasis needs to be on defense.
beat up scrub teams in the second half and collected garbage stats. when it had to score or put games away or make plays when games were against quality opponents it left much to be desired with notable exception of last two weeks.
and 369 points is a mid pack showing. curious what our median score was this year probably paints a better picture.
yes the team needs defense badly but this o was nothing great on the sun of season. if they play more like last two weeks all year maybe they are onto something.
Actually, I’m not sure there were a lot of garbage time points this season. I’m too lazy to look it up, but there were some stats posted yesterday about how close the Giants were in like 5 games lost. Remember too, this defense surrendered a lot of leads late in games. Every team in the NFL surrenders garbage time yards and points which is a big reason why I don’t think football is a stats game like baseball. Having watched the games this season I’ll say the defense was number one problem with this latest Giants losing campaign.
I want to make sure I have this accurate, so please correct me where I am mis-stating your position:
1) Shurmur is a terrible coach and play caller and very often put Eli and the offense in a bad situation
2) The O Line is horrible
3) Our weapons outside of SB are terrible or inconsistent. At different points this year, Shepard and Engram (and even OBJ) disappeared and let Eli down
4) the D if terrible and no better than college quality.
did I miss anything?
you will occasionally acknowledge a bad pass by Eli but ti is ALWAYS immediately followed by highlighting and then harping on some other mistake some one else also made.
defense scored 3 TD's and if you remove them to isolate the offense (remove the DEF/ST TD's from all teams) the Giants are behind the Eagles in points scored.
Um Brees has a big cap hit... how’s their defense doing? SDs?
The difference is Brees and Rivers played up to those big cap # ..
Eli didn’t and when the games mattered the Giants couldn’t score points..
Also take a look at the garbage time TDs the Giants scored against Atl and Dallas when the game was already decided
Lots of teams score points in garbage time. In the end those things often even out over the course of a season when you are looking at Avg points per game. Unless you can point me to some stat showing that the Giants scored an inordinate amount in garbage time or decidedly more than other teams
but Webb is better than Eli Apple. No question. And Webb is a backup CB at best. Apple is too undisciplined and doesn't give consistent effort.
If you're a coach, you take Webb all day.
I think the problem with the move is that it also weakened the depth chart. Even if Webb was better, Apple was better than the next 3 or 4 guys that suited up thereafter. Not that I think it mattered for this season, but it wasn't like addition by subtraction for this team.
of the way things played out? Is there a stat for minutes the defenses were on the field? Amount of drives against? How many 3 and outs did the offense have in comparison to the other teams? The more your defense is on the field in a single gane, the worse they will look (stats wise and physically).
Points can come when you are always throwing from being down, and that happened quite often. I know the Defense wasn't great and needs work but lets not pretend the Giants offense was playoff worthy. Both sides need some major improvements.
The thread starter is the type of reactive thinking that has plagued the Giants for years. "The offense is good, have to improve the defense." That is no way to assess how the team performed. And even if it were, I don't think it's even accurate.
To my eyes, with the exception of Barkley the offense stunk. Remember, this offense was abysmal until the season was effectively over at 1-7 and we started facing backup quarterbacks.
1. The offense is better than it was last year and improved as the season progressed.
2. The offense still needs work - including about 2 new starters on the offensive line, another WR, and a succession plan at QB.
Panthers, 2nd Eagles game, Colts and yesterday.
All could have and should have been wins.
This defense needs an injection of talent across the board.
There aren't many players that started this year that I would keep for next season.
But this pass rush & secondary makes us uncompetitive. Can't expect a rookie QB to step into these conditions.
welcome to the next 6 months.
If you're a coach, you take Webb all day.
I like responses like these.
Is anything I said inaccurate? It’s funny people who respond like these can’t admit their inaccuracies during the year.
welcome to the next 6 months.
Oh yeah for the next 6 months we won’t be hearing about how we need to move in from Eli. We only have what 12 from yesterday?
Their defense gave up points on opponents last possession to lose 4 games - Car, Phi, Indy, Dal
Defense also gave up points on opponents last possession in 3 other games that were 1 possession games. Atl, NO, Was
The defense outside of 2016 has come up so small on so many occasions
Quote:
on Big Eli Interactive are the ones that pretend they aren't all about Eli.
I like responses like these.
Is anything I said inaccurate? It’s funny people who respond like these can’t admit their inaccuracies during the year.
Nope, you're dead-on-balls-accurate as usual. Keep truckin'.
not that the offense is great, as most of the points and yards occurred when the season was over... so they still count.... but when the season mattered, the offense stunk as well- and blew games.
the team juts isnt good- blaming 1 guy or 1 side is pointless.
the QB is old and needs to be replaced- this year or in the next 2.
the OL needs another good player.
the defense needs 5 starters
on the positive side we have the best kicker in the league
at least embrace it. it will make you more endearing.
The truth is a lot of yardage and points came in come from behind and garbage time. I think this is also a tad skewed from a division perspective given the Redskins went into the toilet after Smith’s injury and Eagles have had some of their key personnel missing on offense (OL, RB) and unsettled QB play at the early part of the season.
It does show how horrific the defense was overall. Also shows how Beckham is not the end all be all. We can score and win without him now.
Um Brees has a big cap hit... how’s their defense doing? SDs?
at least embrace it. it will make you more endearing.
I am not really concerned what people think of me here. Never really have. There are tons of people who I respect and interact with. I just love the posters who consistently point out my “agenda” but stay silent on the opposite viewpoint. And that’s fine. That’s what makes forums so great.
Hitdog post was a great one. I’ll add this. You can have prime around Rodgers and it won’t mean a hill of beans unless you fix what has been the most constant thing in our hapless 7 years outside 1.
A terrible defense.
Quote:
How good could you expect the Defense to be?
Um Brees has a big cap hit... how’s their defense doing? SDs?
The difference is Brees and Rivers played up to those big cap # ..
Eli didn’t and when the games mattered the Giants couldn’t score points..
Also take a look at the garbage time TDs the Giants scored against Atl and Dallas when the game was already decided
...what you say is true enough. And, clearly, with a better defense this team would have accrued at least 3 more wins.
But your implied support of Eli is so beside the point.
All considered, Eli had a good season.
But look at him yesterday and look at Dak Prescott and that's all you need to do.
Eli can't make plays by himself.
Eli cannot extend plays by himself.
Eli cannot escape a pass rush and get out on the edge and threaten a defense with either a pass or a run.
Eli cannot make the sort of play that energizes a team.
Yesterday, everything that Eli did NOT do, Dak Prescott DID!
So, think about all of your threads that you've gone to bat for Eli Manning. Over several years.
What do you have to show for it?
That he is a good QB; that he is a system QB; that he needs a strong supporting cast; and that when the going gets rough, Eli is going to the ground.
And Dak Prescott (hardly a Hall of Famer) is still running around.
The key stat is 5-11.
The key stat is 5-11.
What games were garbage time? 20 some points?
And what do backup QBs have to do with the offense? Seems like. The bears skins colts cowboys had their defenses playing... did they not?
and 369 points is a mid pack showing. curious what our median score was this year probably paints a better picture.
yes the team needs defense badly but this o was nothing great on the sun of season. if they play more like last two weeks all year maybe they are onto something.
Actually, I’m not sure there were a lot of garbage time points this season. I’m too lazy to look it up, but there were some stats posted yesterday about how close the Giants were in like 5 games lost. Remember too, this defense surrendered a lot of leads late in games. Every team in the NFL surrenders garbage time yards and points which is a big reason why I don’t think football is a stats game like baseball. Having watched the games this season I’ll say the defense was number one problem with this latest Giants losing campaign.
1) Shurmur is a terrible coach and play caller and very often put Eli and the offense in a bad situation
2) The O Line is horrible
3) Our weapons outside of SB are terrible or inconsistent. At different points this year, Shepard and Engram (and even OBJ) disappeared and let Eli down
4) the D if terrible and no better than college quality.
did I miss anything?
you will occasionally acknowledge a bad pass by Eli but ti is ALWAYS immediately followed by highlighting and then harping on some other mistake some one else also made.
I'm going to guess not many?
Maybe completions and yards.......but not many points.
Quote:
In comment 14241001 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:
How good could you expect the Defense to be?
Um Brees has a big cap hit... how’s their defense doing? SDs?
The difference is Brees and Rivers played up to those big cap # ..
Eli didn’t and when the games mattered the Giants couldn’t score points..
Also take a look at the garbage time TDs the Giants scored against Atl and Dallas when the game was already decided
Lots of teams score points in garbage time. In the end those things often even out over the course of a season when you are looking at Avg points per game. Unless you can point me to some stat showing that the Giants scored an inordinate amount in garbage time or decidedly more than other teams
They usually get over-read though. Or maybe I don’t harp on them to the extent which BBI wants. Cause you know when he throws an INT... we need
50 threads
200 posts
And narratives as “game changing” “back breaking” “INT only rookies makes “
Calling him a fucking moron.
I promise you I’ll work on that in the off-season so I can be like many BBIers here :)
If you're a coach, you take Webb all day.
I think the problem with the move is that it also weakened the depth chart. Even if Webb was better, Apple was better than the next 3 or 4 guys that suited up thereafter. Not that I think it mattered for this season, but it wasn't like addition by subtraction for this team.
The Giants need multiple pass rushers. A good pash rush closes out games. If DG does one thing to the defense it needs to be this.
I think any situation in which Shurmur is the coach can therefore not qualify as a great one.
Maybe he will improve dramatically, and maybe Curtis Riley will become the next Polamalu.
I do agree that Dak's performance yesterday should have a huge asterisk, but I thought the concept of asterisks offended you.
Quote:
For succeeding against a college defense is odd.
I do agree that Dak's performance yesterday should have a huge asterisk, but I thought the concept of asterisks offended you.
TBs defense really stepped up after Eli diced them. I think they next 4-5 games they had a 2:1 turnover:TD pass given up ratio.
So that asterik didnt make much sense :)
Points can come when you are always throwing from being down, and that happened quite often. I know the Defense wasn't great and needs work but lets not pretend the Giants offense was playoff worthy. Both sides need some major improvements.
To my eyes, with the exception of Barkley the offense stunk. Remember, this offense was abysmal until the season was effectively over at 1-7 and we started facing backup quarterbacks.
1. The offense is better than it was last year and improved as the season progressed.
2. The offense still needs work - including about 2 new starters on the offensive line, another WR, and a succession plan at QB.