Worth a pick at 6? You swing and miss there... you think the last few year have been hell... just wait.
Guy hasn’t even played 15 games in a system friendly towards QBs for a team that talent level trumped every single team he played.
Hold off on the swing and miss. How do you know? I'm not a Haskins fan, but I have a friend that played for Michigan and was All Big 10 OG and had a season with the Saints. He said Haskins is the real deal. He also told me Flowers was terrible and would bust when the Giants drafted him.
Now I don't know shit from shinola about rating QBs in college, but saying a kid is a swing and miss after 15 games is as bad as saying he is the real deal. I see no way he could start next year (even if he did declare) as he is likely too green.
dep I do not think QBs need to meet the customary requirements anymore to play in the NFL. They need to be smart, be able to make reads and need to be accurate. But I don't think they need the Manning/Brady criteria anymore - the straight drop back with huge arm. Is that preferred - probably, Sy said it still is. But the Wilson/Mahomes/Mayfield types are the QBs of the future as I see it. Guys that can move easily and make plays. Not the Jackson types that will eventually get hurt and are at best 50% passers.
Anywho, good discussion for a rainy day.
On a guy being the real deal when he wasn’t in the radar of being a draftable product at the start of the year. The one thing Meyer has always produced is great stat college QBs.
On a guy being the real deal when he wasn’t in the radar of being a draftable product at the start of the year. The one thing Meyer has always produced is great stat college QBs.
The Meyer point is a good one. Be interested in what SY says.
Hey, I'm skeptical on all QBs - including all from last year.
Maybe him getting out before Urban messed him up is important (but now that Meyer is gone, maybe he stays).
See how he does tonight. Hope I don't crash before that game.
Also most college QBs that end up 1st round picks Â
Play on teams whose talent are way better than most of their opponents. Baker, Darnold, Watson, etc.
If that’s going to scare you off then we definitely can’t take Tua, Fromm or Lawrence. Michigan has one of the best defenses in the country and he absolutely torched them.
We heard that the Giants had to do whatever was possible to get Herbert. We had to lose every game. We had to do this. He was the sure fire number 1, etc...
Now only is he not coming out, but he wouldn’t be even on our radar. He actually regressed. Now that he’s off the board - it’s like we have a new flavor of the month.
At 6, you have to nail the pick. As of right now, the top 6 picks from last year look like home runs and have been projected to be that from the get go.
RE: Also most college QBs that end up 1st round picks Â
Play on teams whose talent are way better than most of their opponents. Baker, Darnold, Watson, etc.
If that’s going to scare you off then we definitely can’t take Tua, Fromm or Lawrence. Michigan has one of the best defenses in the country and he absolutely torched them.
And all those QBs were successful for more than 1 year. And didn’t play for urban either.
I wouldn’t use Michigan as the game to prop Haskins up. Michigan always chokes against teams they aren’t worlds better than.
They need ER, OT/OL, FS and CB help right away. Even a pass rush LB type if exceptional. I still feel that is what they do. The defense is just garbage and a couple tweaks on the oline would go a long way. OC needs to be a focus too in order to stymie the push up the middle.
Of course until we see what they focus on in FA, there is no way to know the direction DG takes in the draft beofre FA.
They need ER, OT/OL, FS and CB help right away. Even a pass rush LB type if exceptional. I still feel that is what they do. The defense is just garbage and a couple tweaks on the oline would go a long way. OC needs to be a focus too in order to stymie the push up the middle.
Of course until we see what they focus on in FA, there is no way to know the direction DG takes in the draft beofre FA.
I agree. But people here are at the point of...
If we don’t draft a QB - it’s a failure!!! It’s maddening.
they clearly should consider it. it’s a draft and there is relative positional ranking and there are great defensive players that can help the Giants out as well-if they don’t take qb this year they obviously have to in 2020. so at some point yes this must be addressed.
it may not be haskins. perhaps they like jones and someone likes haskins and they can trade down. a lot of potential outcomes.
Given the high bust rate at qb, i’d draft another developmental prospect later at very least.
they clearly should consider it. it’s a draft and there is relative positional ranking and there are great defensive players that can help the Giants out as well-if they don’t take qb this year they obviously have to in 2020. so at some point yes this must be addressed.
it may not be haskins. perhaps they like jones and someone likes haskins and they can trade down. a lot of potential outcomes.
Given the high bust rate at qb, i’d draft another developmental prospect later at very least.
I think it’s safe to assume if we draft say Jonah Williams, Josh Allen, or Deandre Baker... we are going to have a lot of upset people here. Not everyone who wants a QB change, but a good majority. Just my opinion...
Now I don't know shit from shinola about rating QBs in college, but saying a kid is a swing and miss after 15 games is as bad as saying he is the real deal.
"don't know shit from shinola"
i love it and use it as well with my kids...
RE: RE: Also most college QBs that end up 1st round picks Â
Play on teams whose talent are way better than most of their opponents. Baker, Darnold, Watson, etc.
If that’s going to scare you off then we definitely can’t take Tua, Fromm or Lawrence. Michigan has one of the best defenses in the country and he absolutely torched them.
And all those QBs were successful for more than 1 year. And didn’t play for urban either.
I wouldn’t use Michigan as the game to prop Haskins up. Michigan always chokes against teams they aren’t worlds better than.
You really playing in Urbans offense and playing in Clemson’s offense isn’t all that different right? Goal post moving
but not one to prevent the front office doing EVERYTHING they can find a quality replacement for Eli this season.
It may not come to be that the Giants draft a QB in 2019 but it sure as shit better be because they exhausted their due diligence and determined every single one available wasn't worth the value/risk.
Punting the decision because we have other needs or the 2020 QB class looks better comes with its own set of risks/issues...
I’m pretty sure you never heard of him before week 5 of the college season.... haha
His high school was a client of mine, so I’ve actually known about him since he was a Freshman in high school. I provided Maryland with data on him during the recruitment, but ok...
The only thing to laugh at is the fact you can dismiss him because Ohio States talent is so much better or because Michigan always chokes but don’t do the same for Tua who as three wide receivers who would be 1 or 1a at nearly every school in the country, NFL prospects all over the line and a stable of runningbacks so good the best high school rb in the country two years ago doesn’t play.
but not one to prevent the front office doing EVERYTHING they can find a quality replacement for Eli this season.
It may not come to be that the Giants draft a QB in 2019 but it sure as shit better be because they exhausted their due diligence and determined every single one available wasn't worth the value/risk.
Punting the decision because we have other needs or the 2020 QB class looks better comes with its own set of risks/issues...
See if we have the season we had this year... there are going to be options galore for QB.
Tua
Fromm
Herbert - he was the supposed best this year
Eason
We can start with those 4 and I am sure there will be a handful of others as well. I can argue those 4 are better prospects than Haskins or Jones or lock.
after every loss there are posters for example the dude that started this thread that won't blame Eli for a thing. SO many apologists for eli. His QB rating is terrible and you have people agreeing with his silly
"points scored" argument. It;s laughable the fanboy-homerism for ELi.
Try explaining to any statistician that "points scored" is any way to accurately measure a QB and you'll gt them to cry laughing at the absurdity. This is the same guy who thinks ELi right now is better than matt Ryan.
Can you really point to any posters who don't think Eli is part of the problem?
We are a bad football team and have been for some time. Everyone deserves to shoulder a portion of the blame.
I think part of the reason you see support for Eli isn't just because he's the starting QB for the team we root for, but because of the over-the-top commentary after almost any loss. When you have a particular poster who uses terms like the Cult of Eli or eli fanboys in nearly every one of his posts, it is easy to see why you would have people respond to refute that fucking drivel.
I don't think I can name a single poster who thinks Eli is above blame or that he hasn't contributed to the poor seasons. I can find several posters who truly believe that eli is the root of the problem
I'm not sure your point here. We haven't made the playoffs the last 6 of 7 years and it doesn't look like we;ll make it next year either (though in football sure anything can happen.). And the last two years have produced 8 wins combined. Why wouldnt you expect Eli to take some blame? How much positive can you spin? Frankly I think too many have been beaten down.
ANother thread had I believe a few posters thinking if it weren't for those few games we lost close - that we're actually close to being real good. These posters imo have "accepted' losing. A loss is a loss. WHen you have 11 you stink. You get no wins for being close to winning. There is no "close" a sany positive when you lose ELEVEN.
Anyhow-- I don't see the big deal for many many posters complaining to some degree of Eli - all of us are witness to all these awful seasons. You can't "excuse" him. But I agree with you some pin the blame on ELi but EVERYONE should give him SOME blame. He plays the most important position on the football field. His stats are not good this year for example as far as QBR. You say yourself that everyone deserves the blame but we see who wins "the SUper Bowl MVP's" and which positions get paid the most etc. It starts a lot with the QB. So when things are great the Qb gets accolades but when things go bad let's not go after the QB who is having a subpar year according to QBR?
As far as "part of the reason" why some posters support ELi in the manner you speak-- I'm sorry but I don't agree in fanaticism like this OP has shown. I dont't believe the absurdity of using "points scored" - I think it's embarrassing to even bring it up on this site. I think its embarrassing for anyone to think ELi at this point in his career for a season is better than Matt Ryan.
**But the bottomline is the QB gets the adoration and accolades if all goes well and the blame if it doesn't. Just go look at a recent title on this site here called ----
"Eli dropped 35 points against a very good Cowboys D"
and then the OP saqbar999 goes on to say Eli also dropped 27 against a good colt d.
We both know it's a team game and it was a lot more than just "Eli." But no one argued that. It's just natural and acknowledged that's what the Qb gets. THe QB position iIS the most important position on the field. It can't be ignored. SO when the Gmen put up 35 points -- it's accepted as Eli. WHen eli had all those come from behind victories those are "Eli's come from behind victories" and not much said of the individual other player's and how they are "clutch" for their careers. Thus when they now lose ofc it comes back to bite him.
This is exactly how it should be. But I agree temperament that this is no way no way no way all eli's fault imo it is wrong BUT to excuse the fanatics like the OP and some of his ilk is wrong too. We're not some wimpy fans such as in baseball Tampa bay. We shouldn't accept ;losing and further it's terrible to read some posters giving excuses "but if not for 4 close games . . . etc."
We have a Qb in which the data shows through QBR that he had a sub par year. even someone like USAF using "eyeball" sees it even though he doesnt agree with QBR. I'm hopeful on here that all of us can be honest to a certain degree and accept BOTH POV that it isn't entirely Eli's fault nor is it what thefantaics like the OP and his ilk dont want to give any blame to him or extremely minimal. IMO we MUST try to be FAIR and have it go BOTH ways. If posters like the op and his ilk can't take Eli criticism it still doesnt justify their fanaticism.
They need ot get over it. It;s the nature of the beast with the QB - the most important position on the football field.
but not one to prevent the front office doing EVERYTHING they can find a quality replacement for Eli this season.
It may not come to be that the Giants draft a QB in 2019 but it sure as shit better be because they exhausted their due diligence and determined every single one available wasn't worth the value/risk.
Punting the decision because we have other needs or the 2020 QB class looks better comes with its own set of risks/issues...
See if we have the season we had this year... there are going to be options galore for QB.
Tua
Fromm
Herbert - he was the supposed best this year
Eason
We can start with those 4 and I am sure there will be a handful of others as well. I can argue those 4 are better prospects than Haskins or Jones or lock.
I’d be pretty stoked to land one of them.
Eason is a better prospect than Haskins based on what? His 16 tds and 2400 yards? Or the fact he hasn’t played football in two years?
but not one to prevent the front office doing EVERYTHING they can find a quality replacement for Eli this season.
It may not come to be that the Giants draft a QB in 2019 but it sure as shit better be because they exhausted their due diligence and determined every single one available wasn't worth the value/risk.
Punting the decision because we have other needs or the 2020 QB class looks better comes with its own set of risks/issues...
See if we have the season we had this year... there are going to be options galore for QB.
Tua
Fromm
Herbert - he was the supposed best this year
Eason
We can start with those 4 and I am sure there will be a handful of others as well. I can argue those 4 are better prospects than Haskins or Jones or lock.
I’d be pretty stoked to land one of them.
Well then its done...Giants will just draft their future star QB in 2020. Nothing else to consider.
Eason is a better prospect than Haskins based on what? His 16 tds and 2400 yards? Or the fact he hasn’t played football in two years?
Eason was the number 1 prospect in the nation coming out of high school. He started as a true freshman. He got hurt. Shit happens. He has 1 year at Washington left.... where he is beloved on that team. Can he tank? Sure. But I believe he will be in the mix for the first orund next year.
This is exactly how it should be. But I agree temperament that this is no way no way no way all eli's fault imo it is wrong BUT to excuse the fanatics like the OP and some of his ilk is wrong too. We're not some wimpy fans such as in baseball Tampa bay. We shouldn't accept ;losing and further it's terrible to read some posters giving excuses "but if not for 4 close games . . . etc."
Again - who is accepting losing? Better yet - what isn't accepting losing? Is it saying that the GM and HC need to be fired when we were halfway through the season? Is it getting disappointed that a QB wasn't drafted and then spend all year bitching about how we needed to select one of the many QB's who look nothing better than mediocre so far?
Is it expecting 3rd rounders to be failures because the previous GM whiffed on them?
In my experience, not accepting losses just sounds like a lot of fucking whining.
Eason is a better prospect than Haskins based on what? His 16 tds and 2400 yards? Or the fact he hasn’t played football in two years?
Eason was the number 1 prospect in the nation coming out of high school. He started as a true freshman. He got hurt. Shit happens. He has 1 year at Washington left.... where he is beloved on that team. Can he tank? Sure. But I believe he will be in the mix for the first orund next year.
You don’t realize your hypocrisy do you?
Haskins has only played one year... cant take him
Eason has played one, which was nowhere near as good as Haskins... better NFL prospect based on nothing but Deps gut.
No? So hes going to play ANOTHER year. Oh, thanks. So if math isnt your thing. 1 year at georgia plus 1 year at Washington means hes going to have TWO years of material shown.
If Haskins goes back, that gives him a 2nd year as well. And a chance to hone his skills to be in the conversation as well. Understand now?
No? So hes going to play ANOTHER year. Oh, thanks. So if math isnt your thing. 1 year at georgia plus 1 year at Washington means hes going to have TWO years of material shown.
If Haskins goes back, that gives him a 2nd year as well. And a chance to hone his skills to be in the conversation as well. Understand now?
You said he’s a better prospect than Haskins based off nothing. That second year means nothing talking about today. You’d pass on a guy because another guy has a hypothetical second year?
You’re basing him being better than Haskins off one year. That’s not being
They need ER, OT/OL, FS and CB help right away. Even a pass rush LB type if exceptional. I still feel that is what they do. The defense is just garbage and a couple tweaks on the oline would go a long way. OC needs to be a focus too in order to stymie the push up the middle.
Of course until we see what they focus on in FA, there is no way to know the direction DG takes in the draft beofre FA.
You're exacty right. If the GMen feel he isn;t it then ofc pass-- but they better be right. I read dg can't be right all the time which is correct. But he keeps his job or loses his job based on his degree of being right or wrong. He better be rightifhe passes on him.
What gets me is the fanaticism though by some to just dump on Haskins without reading. As I posted before-
My view he looks good so does Bleacher report, walter Camp, Sb Nation, NBC sports, Sporting News, Mel Kiper, Fotballmaven, Thunderdogpsorts. - ANd Pro football weekly had an article in October saying hsi stock was rising as the 1st qb to be taken only after 6 games but the writer expressed caution that he had to see more. SO he didnt assign a number but so far he's been off thecharts.
I dont know but I expect the Gmen to know. But what gets me is posters liek the op just blinded by ELi fanatcism. The points he makes about Haskins are addressed within some of the references i cited above. DO you think he'll even take ONE SECOND toto look into it? He won't A guy such as Kiper says he was in denial but after so such a strong season he relented and now is 10.
People like the OP and his ilk arent going into this with no open mind. They herd in October that some scouts anted to see more from Haskins or maybe Sy didnt like him in ealry october? but you get the feeling many have changed their minds.
**And as I mentioned above of Profootballweekly the writer specifically adresses so few games in his October article. He says let's see how the rest of the season plays out. Well- we know how it has so far he's been outstanding. Yet what do keep reading from the OP - still hacking away at Haskins. OFC he could be right but imo this guy is a pathetic hero-worshipping fan. He is dug in on ELi and he doesn't want to hear shit - and he;ll keep making up stuff to stkkc up for his hero. I'm acknowledging 'I don't know." BUT
as I referenced MANy have turned the corner on Haskins because they have him in the top ten and nearly all have him as the top qb now.
And ofc you'll keep reading how the OP will keep pushing that people say get Haskins at all costs on this thread implying me. It;s a false narrative which he continually spouts on this subject and on ELi.
Im identifying references and can provide links. WHile the OP uses cliche look at Ohio State QBs of the past. It is mentioned butn anyways do you think all the services that have him in top 10 including Kiper don't know about OSU QB's of the past? I think Iread that this guy is different. Do you really think the OP is going to care? It's all about protecting his hero.
but not one to prevent the front office doing EVERYTHING they can find a quality replacement for Eli this season.
It may not come to be that the Giants draft a QB in 2019 but it sure as shit better be because they exhausted their due diligence and determined every single one available wasn't worth the value/risk.
Punting the decision because we have other needs or the 2020 QB class looks better comes with its own set of risks/issues...
See if we have the season we had this year... there are going to be options galore for QB.
Tua
Fromm
Herbert - he was the supposed best this year
Eason
We can start with those 4 and I am sure there will be a handful of others as well. I can argue those 4 are better prospects than Haskins or Jones or lock.
I’d be pretty stoked to land one of them.
Well then its done...Giants will just draft their future star QB in 2020. Nothing else to consider.
The OP is laughable. Doesn;t for one second think what will happen if Eli starts, the Gmen getTWO Linemen in free agency, draft a pass rusher that;s an impact in round 1-- the how the hell are we going to be in position to get any of the top 4 QB's?
Oh yeah simple WE:LL JUST TRADE UP -- EASY_ no one lese wants these stud QB's and we have so much talent we cna just easily give away future draft picks for a young QB which means we wont be ready to possibly be a contender until at least 2021. More tick tock tick tock with our RB Barkley.
Guy hasn’t even played 15 games in a system friendly towards QBs for a team that talent level trumped every single team he played.
One thing he did have is almost consistently better teams/supporting cast than Eli has had.
Guy hasn’t even played 15 games in a system friendly towards QBs for a team that talent level trumped every single team he played.
Hold off on the swing and miss. How do you know? I'm not a Haskins fan, but I have a friend that played for Michigan and was All Big 10 OG and had a season with the Saints. He said Haskins is the real deal. He also told me Flowers was terrible and would bust when the Giants drafted him.
Now I don't know shit from shinola about rating QBs in college, but saying a kid is a swing and miss after 15 games is as bad as saying he is the real deal. I see no way he could start next year (even if he did declare) as he is likely too green.
dep I do not think QBs need to meet the customary requirements anymore to play in the NFL. They need to be smart, be able to make reads and need to be accurate. But I don't think they need the Manning/Brady criteria anymore - the straight drop back with huge arm. Is that preferred - probably, Sy said it still is. But the Wilson/Mahomes/Mayfield types are the QBs of the future as I see it. Guys that can move easily and make plays. Not the Jackson types that will eventually get hurt and are at best 50% passers.
Anywho, good discussion for a rainy day.
Guy hasn’t even played 15 games in a system friendly towards QBs for a team that talent level trumped every single team he played.
The fear of missing is clouding judgements here.
Haskins only having only one year of playing, and a good one, would be the perfect pick if Shurmur is who we hired him to be.
A QB, with tools but limited experience that a supposed QB whisperer can mold.
The Meyer point is a good one. Be interested in what SY says.
Hey, I'm skeptical on all QBs - including all from last year.
Maybe him getting out before Urban messed him up is important (but now that Meyer is gone, maybe he stays).
See how he does tonight. Hope I don't crash before that game.
If that’s going to scare you off then we definitely can’t take Tua, Fromm or Lawrence. Michigan has one of the best defenses in the country and he absolutely torched them.
Now only is he not coming out, but he wouldn’t be even on our radar. He actually regressed. Now that he’s off the board - it’s like we have a new flavor of the month.
At 6, you have to nail the pick. As of right now, the top 6 picks from last year look like home runs and have been projected to be that from the get go.
If that’s going to scare you off then we definitely can’t take Tua, Fromm or Lawrence. Michigan has one of the best defenses in the country and he absolutely torched them.
And all those QBs were successful for more than 1 year. And didn’t play for urban either.
I wouldn’t use Michigan as the game to prop Haskins up. Michigan always chokes against teams they aren’t worlds better than.
They need ER, OT/OL, FS and CB help right away. Even a pass rush LB type if exceptional. I still feel that is what they do. The defense is just garbage and a couple tweaks on the oline would go a long way. OC needs to be a focus too in order to stymie the push up the middle.
Of course until we see what they focus on in FA, there is no way to know the direction DG takes in the draft beofre FA.
They need ER, OT/OL, FS and CB help right away. Even a pass rush LB type if exceptional. I still feel that is what they do. The defense is just garbage and a couple tweaks on the oline would go a long way. OC needs to be a focus too in order to stymie the push up the middle.
Of course until we see what they focus on in FA, there is no way to know the direction DG takes in the draft beofre FA.
I agree. But people here are at the point of...
If we don’t draft a QB - it’s a failure!!! It’s maddening.
Quote:
Worth a pick at 6? You swing and miss there... you think the last few year have been hell... just wait.
Guy hasn’t even played 15 games in a system friendly towards QBs for a team that talent level trumped every single team he played.
The fear of missing is clouding judgements here.
Haskins only having only one year of playing, and a good one, would be the perfect pick if Shurmur is who we hired him to be.
A QB, with tools but limited experience that a supposed QB whisperer can mold.
I don't want a QB who needs a QB whisperer to be good with the 6th overall pick. I want a player.
I can get that kind of QB in later rounds.
it may not be haskins. perhaps they like jones and someone likes haskins and they can trade down. a lot of potential outcomes.
Given the high bust rate at qb, i’d draft another developmental prospect later at very least.
it may not be haskins. perhaps they like jones and someone likes haskins and they can trade down. a lot of potential outcomes.
Given the high bust rate at qb, i’d draft another developmental prospect later at very least.
I think it’s safe to assume if we draft say Jonah Williams, Josh Allen, or Deandre Baker... we are going to have a lot of upset people here. Not everyone who wants a QB change, but a good majority. Just my opinion...
Now I don't know shit from shinola about rating QBs in college, but saying a kid is a swing and miss after 15 games is as bad as saying he is the real deal.
"don't know shit from shinola"
i love it and use it as well with my kids...
Quote:
Play on teams whose talent are way better than most of their opponents. Baker, Darnold, Watson, etc.
If that’s going to scare you off then we definitely can’t take Tua, Fromm or Lawrence. Michigan has one of the best defenses in the country and he absolutely torched them.
And all those QBs were successful for more than 1 year. And didn’t play for urban either.
I wouldn’t use Michigan as the game to prop Haskins up. Michigan always chokes against teams they aren’t worlds better than.
You really playing in Urbans offense and playing in Clemson’s offense isn’t all that different right? Goal post moving
Quote:
In comment 14242478 dep026 said:
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Worth a pick at 6? You swing and miss there... you think the last few year have been hell... just wait.
Guy hasn’t even played 15 games in a system friendly towards QBs for a team that talent level trumped every single team he played.
The fear of missing is clouding judgements here.
Haskins only having only one year of playing, and a good one, would be the perfect pick if Shurmur is who we hired him to be.
A QB, with tools but limited experience that a supposed QB whisperer can mold.
I don't want a QB who needs a QB whisperer to be good with the 6th overall pick. I want a player.
I can get that kind of QB in later rounds.
Except you don’t get a player without Haskins talent in the later rounds.
Every QB needs good coaching, see Goff under Fisher vs Goff under Mcvay
irrespective of how they want to build a team they need a stud pass rusher so i have no issue if they go in that direction.
It may not come to be that the Giants draft a QB in 2019 but it sure as shit better be because they exhausted their due diligence and determined every single one available wasn't worth the value/risk.
Punting the decision because we have other needs or the 2020 QB class looks better comes with its own set of risks/issues...
His high school was a client of mine, so I’ve actually known about him since he was a Freshman in high school. I provided Maryland with data on him during the recruitment, but ok...
The only thing to laugh at is the fact you can dismiss him because Ohio States talent is so much better or because Michigan always chokes but don’t do the same for Tua who as three wide receivers who would be 1 or 1a at nearly every school in the country, NFL prospects all over the line and a stable of runningbacks so good the best high school rb in the country two years ago doesn’t play.
I agree. But people here are at the point of...
If we don’t draft a QB - it’s a failure!!! It’s maddening.
ancient chinese saying - "fuck'em"
dep who heard of Mahomes? Not a good point. Nobody hears of anybody until they've been scouted or light up a scoreboard somewhere.
But I guarantee college coaches and NFL scouts of heard of these kinds of players...
It may not come to be that the Giants draft a QB in 2019 but it sure as shit better be because they exhausted their due diligence and determined every single one available wasn't worth the value/risk.
Punting the decision because we have other needs or the 2020 QB class looks better comes with its own set of risks/issues...
See if we have the season we had this year... there are going to be options galore for QB.
Tua
Fromm
Herbert - he was the supposed best this year
Eason
We can start with those 4 and I am sure there will be a handful of others as well. I can argue those 4 are better prospects than Haskins or Jones or lock.
I’d be pretty stoked to land one of them.
Quote:
I’m pretty sure you never heard of him before week 5 of the college season.... haha
dep who heard of Mahomes? Not a good point. Nobody hears of anybody until they've been scouted or light up a scoreboard somewhere.
But I guarantee college coaches and NFL scouts of heard of these kinds of players...
Mahomes was always labeled a project. I saw him as 2-3 rounder coming into his final year. And he was a 3 year starter too.
Quote:
after every loss there are posters for example the dude that started this thread that won't blame Eli for a thing. SO many apologists for eli. His QB rating is terrible and you have people agreeing with his silly
"points scored" argument. It;s laughable the fanboy-homerism for ELi.
Try explaining to any statistician that "points scored" is any way to accurately measure a QB and you'll gt them to cry laughing at the absurdity. This is the same guy who thinks ELi right now is better than matt Ryan.
Can you really point to any posters who don't think Eli is part of the problem?
We are a bad football team and have been for some time. Everyone deserves to shoulder a portion of the blame.
I think part of the reason you see support for Eli isn't just because he's the starting QB for the team we root for, but because of the over-the-top commentary after almost any loss. When you have a particular poster who uses terms like the Cult of Eli or eli fanboys in nearly every one of his posts, it is easy to see why you would have people respond to refute that fucking drivel.
I don't think I can name a single poster who thinks Eli is above blame or that he hasn't contributed to the poor seasons. I can find several posters who truly believe that eli is the root of the problem
I'm not sure your point here. We haven't made the playoffs the last 6 of 7 years and it doesn't look like we;ll make it next year either (though in football sure anything can happen.). And the last two years have produced 8 wins combined. Why wouldnt you expect Eli to take some blame? How much positive can you spin? Frankly I think too many have been beaten down.
ANother thread had I believe a few posters thinking if it weren't for those few games we lost close - that we're actually close to being real good. These posters imo have "accepted' losing. A loss is a loss. WHen you have 11 you stink. You get no wins for being close to winning. There is no "close" a sany positive when you lose ELEVEN.
Anyhow-- I don't see the big deal for many many posters complaining to some degree of Eli - all of us are witness to all these awful seasons. You can't "excuse" him. But I agree with you some pin the blame on ELi but EVERYONE should give him SOME blame. He plays the most important position on the football field. His stats are not good this year for example as far as QBR. You say yourself that everyone deserves the blame but we see who wins "the SUper Bowl MVP's" and which positions get paid the most etc. It starts a lot with the QB. So when things are great the Qb gets accolades but when things go bad let's not go after the QB who is having a subpar year according to QBR?
As far as "part of the reason" why some posters support ELi in the manner you speak-- I'm sorry but I don't agree in fanaticism like this OP has shown. I dont't believe the absurdity of using "points scored" - I think it's embarrassing to even bring it up on this site. I think its embarrassing for anyone to think ELi at this point in his career for a season is better than Matt Ryan.
**But the bottomline is the QB gets the adoration and accolades if all goes well and the blame if it doesn't. Just go look at a recent title on this site here called ----
"Eli dropped 35 points against a very good Cowboys D"
and then the OP saqbar999 goes on to say Eli also dropped 27 against a good colt d.
We both know it's a team game and it was a lot more than just "Eli." But no one argued that. It's just natural and acknowledged that's what the Qb gets. THe QB position iIS the most important position on the field. It can't be ignored. SO when the Gmen put up 35 points -- it's accepted as Eli. WHen eli had all those come from behind victories those are "Eli's come from behind victories" and not much said of the individual other player's and how they are "clutch" for their careers. Thus when they now lose ofc it comes back to bite him.
This is exactly how it should be. But I agree temperament that this is no way no way no way all eli's fault imo it is wrong BUT to excuse the fanatics like the OP and some of his ilk is wrong too. We're not some wimpy fans such as in baseball Tampa bay. We shouldn't accept ;losing and further it's terrible to read some posters giving excuses "but if not for 4 close games . . . etc."
We have a Qb in which the data shows through QBR that he had a sub par year. even someone like USAF using "eyeball" sees it even though he doesnt agree with QBR. I'm hopeful on here that all of us can be honest to a certain degree and accept BOTH POV that it isn't entirely Eli's fault nor is it what thefantaics like the OP and his ilk dont want to give any blame to him or extremely minimal. IMO we MUST try to be FAIR and have it go BOTH ways. If posters like the op and his ilk can't take Eli criticism it still doesnt justify their fanaticism.
They need ot get over it. It;s the nature of the beast with the QB - the most important position on the football field.
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but not one to prevent the front office doing EVERYTHING they can find a quality replacement for Eli this season.
It may not come to be that the Giants draft a QB in 2019 but it sure as shit better be because they exhausted their due diligence and determined every single one available wasn't worth the value/risk.
Punting the decision because we have other needs or the 2020 QB class looks better comes with its own set of risks/issues...
See if we have the season we had this year... there are going to be options galore for QB.
Tua
Fromm
Herbert - he was the supposed best this year
Eason
We can start with those 4 and I am sure there will be a handful of others as well. I can argue those 4 are better prospects than Haskins or Jones or lock.
I’d be pretty stoked to land one of them.
Eason is a better prospect than Haskins based on what? His 16 tds and 2400 yards? Or the fact he hasn’t played football in two years?
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In comment 14242560 dep026 said:
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I’m pretty sure you never heard of him before week 5 of the college season.... haha
dep who heard of Mahomes? Not a good point. Nobody hears of anybody until they've been scouted or light up a scoreboard somewhere.
But I guarantee college coaches and NFL scouts of heard of these kinds of players...
Mahomes was always labeled a project. I saw him as 2-3 rounder coming into his final year. And he was a 3 year starter too.
Did you know him soph year?
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but not one to prevent the front office doing EVERYTHING they can find a quality replacement for Eli this season.
It may not come to be that the Giants draft a QB in 2019 but it sure as shit better be because they exhausted their due diligence and determined every single one available wasn't worth the value/risk.
Punting the decision because we have other needs or the 2020 QB class looks better comes with its own set of risks/issues...
See if we have the season we had this year... there are going to be options galore for QB.
Tua
Fromm
Herbert - he was the supposed best this year
Eason
We can start with those 4 and I am sure there will be a handful of others as well. I can argue those 4 are better prospects than Haskins or Jones or lock.
I’d be pretty stoked to land one of them.
Well then its done...Giants will just draft their future star QB in 2020. Nothing else to consider.
Eason is a better prospect than Haskins based on what? His 16 tds and 2400 yards? Or the fact he hasn’t played football in two years?
Eason was the number 1 prospect in the nation coming out of high school. He started as a true freshman. He got hurt. Shit happens. He has 1 year at Washington left.... where he is beloved on that team. Can he tank? Sure. But I believe he will be in the mix for the first orund next year.
Did you know him soph year?
Of course I did. Betting overs in the Big 12 is my thing...haha
Again - who is accepting losing? Better yet - what isn't accepting losing? Is it saying that the GM and HC need to be fired when we were halfway through the season? Is it getting disappointed that a QB wasn't drafted and then spend all year bitching about how we needed to select one of the many QB's who look nothing better than mediocre so far?
Is it expecting 3rd rounders to be failures because the previous GM whiffed on them?
In my experience, not accepting losses just sounds like a lot of fucking whining.
Ignore him.
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Did you know him soph year?
Of course I did. Betting overs in the Big 12 is my thing...haha
well done!
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Eason is a better prospect than Haskins based on what? His 16 tds and 2400 yards? Or the fact he hasn’t played football in two years?
Eason was the number 1 prospect in the nation coming out of high school. He started as a true freshman. He got hurt. Shit happens. He has 1 year at Washington left.... where he is beloved on that team. Can he tank? Sure. But I believe he will be in the mix for the first orund next year.
You don’t realize your hypocrisy do you?
Haskins has only played one year... cant take him
Eason has played one, which was nowhere near as good as Haskins... better NFL prospect based on nothing but Deps gut.
Have some consistency.
If Haskins goes back, that gives him a 2nd year as well. And a chance to hone his skills to be in the conversation as well. Understand now?
If Haskins goes back, that gives him a 2nd year as well. And a chance to hone his skills to be in the conversation as well. Understand now?
You said he’s a better prospect than Haskins based off nothing. That second year means nothing talking about today. You’d pass on a guy because another guy has a hypothetical second year?
You’re basing him being better than Haskins off one year. That’s not being
Ok. Lot of people were enamored wit hEason after his freshman year. Its about projecting. Isnt it?
Ok. Lot of people were enamored wit hEason after his freshman year. Its about projecting. Isnt it?
Haskins year of film, granted he was older, was better than Eason’s from just a film perspective.
Take into account the injury, and Haskins is a better prospect right now.
But yet you’re the one here laughing off other people’s sentments...
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not everyone share the same sentiments.
But yet you’re the one here laughing off other people’s sentments...
Sometimes laughter is the best medicine. Not everyone in this world is miserable.
They need ER, OT/OL, FS and CB help right away. Even a pass rush LB type if exceptional. I still feel that is what they do. The defense is just garbage and a couple tweaks on the oline would go a long way. OC needs to be a focus too in order to stymie the push up the middle.
Of course until we see what they focus on in FA, there is no way to know the direction DG takes in the draft beofre FA.
You're exacty right. If the GMen feel he isn;t it then ofc pass-- but they better be right. I read dg can't be right all the time which is correct. But he keeps his job or loses his job based on his degree of being right or wrong. He better be rightifhe passes on him.
What gets me is the fanaticism though by some to just dump on Haskins without reading. As I posted before-
My view he looks good so does Bleacher report, walter Camp, Sb Nation, NBC sports, Sporting News, Mel Kiper, Fotballmaven, Thunderdogpsorts. - ANd Pro football weekly had an article in October saying hsi stock was rising as the 1st qb to be taken only after 6 games but the writer expressed caution that he had to see more. SO he didnt assign a number but so far he's been off thecharts.
I dont know but I expect the Gmen to know. But what gets me is posters liek the op just blinded by ELi fanatcism. The points he makes about Haskins are addressed within some of the references i cited above. DO you think he'll even take ONE SECOND toto look into it? He won't A guy such as Kiper says he was in denial but after so such a strong season he relented and now is 10.
People like the OP and his ilk arent going into this with no open mind. They herd in October that some scouts anted to see more from Haskins or maybe Sy didnt like him in ealry october? but you get the feeling many have changed their minds.
**And as I mentioned above of Profootballweekly the writer specifically adresses so few games in his October article. He says let's see how the rest of the season plays out. Well- we know how it has so far he's been outstanding. Yet what do keep reading from the OP - still hacking away at Haskins. OFC he could be right but imo this guy is a pathetic hero-worshipping fan. He is dug in on ELi and he doesn't want to hear shit - and he;ll keep making up stuff to stkkc up for his hero. I'm acknowledging 'I don't know." BUT
as I referenced MANy have turned the corner on Haskins because they have him in the top ten and nearly all have him as the top qb now.
And ofc you'll keep reading how the OP will keep pushing that people say get Haskins at all costs on this thread implying me. It;s a false narrative which he continually spouts on this subject and on ELi.
Im identifying references and can provide links. WHile the OP uses cliche look at Ohio State QBs of the past. It is mentioned butn anyways do you think all the services that have him in top 10 including Kiper don't know about OSU QB's of the past? I think Iread that this guy is different. Do you really think the OP is going to care? It's all about protecting his hero.
So I guess you dont know shit about shit?
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In comment 14242567 Jimmy Googs said:
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but not one to prevent the front office doing EVERYTHING they can find a quality replacement for Eli this season.
It may not come to be that the Giants draft a QB in 2019 but it sure as shit better be because they exhausted their due diligence and determined every single one available wasn't worth the value/risk.
Punting the decision because we have other needs or the 2020 QB class looks better comes with its own set of risks/issues...
See if we have the season we had this year... there are going to be options galore for QB.
Tua
Fromm
Herbert - he was the supposed best this year
Eason
We can start with those 4 and I am sure there will be a handful of others as well. I can argue those 4 are better prospects than Haskins or Jones or lock.
I’d be pretty stoked to land one of them.
Well then its done...Giants will just draft their future star QB in 2020. Nothing else to consider.
The OP is laughable. Doesn;t for one second think what will happen if Eli starts, the Gmen getTWO Linemen in free agency, draft a pass rusher that;s an impact in round 1-- the how the hell are we going to be in position to get any of the top 4 QB's?
Oh yeah simple WE:LL JUST TRADE UP -- EASY_ no one lese wants these stud QB's and we have so much talent we cna just easily give away future draft picks for a young QB which means we wont be ready to possibly be a contender until at least 2021. More tick tock tick tock with our RB Barkley.
Holy Shit. BBI sucks.
thats why its laughable to want to improve the OL and defense.