...is to give him a contract extension that creates cap room without actually guaranteeing him any more money than he is due to receive in 2019.
As one example, the Giants could create $10M in addition cap room in 2019 by tearing up his current contract and giving him a three-year deal (which translates to a two-year extension) with a $15M signing bonus and $2M in salary. In this example, Eli gets the same $17M in real money that he is due in 2019, but $10M of the cap hit would be pushed from 2019 to 2020/21.
Whatever salaries/bonus money he receives in 2020 and 2021 can be negotiable and would likely include escalators based on performance. It wouldn't be in Eli's interest to demand too much in base salary because it would only make it more likely the Giants release him (which, in my example above, would mean a $10M dead cap hit in 2020, not at all unmanageable if he is being replaced by a QB on his rookie contract).
If he's still the most worthwhile starting QB beyond that to help create a long window of sustained annual success, have that negotiation next offseason when you can be 100% unbiased by any "dead cap" hits already on the books for future years.
For me, the line is drawn at moving any amount of guaranteed money / cap hit into 2020 or beyond at this point. I don't insist on immediate QB change at this point (though it wouldn't bother me in the least), but taking from future years' salary cap to further leverage 2019 would bother me.
Can we come back to reality?
If he's still the most worthwhile starting QB beyond that to help create a long window of sustained annual success, have that negotiation next offseason when you can be 100% unbiased by any "dead cap" hits already on the books for future years.
p.s.--If Collins plays on the franchise tag that's $10-12M in cap room that's gonna be eaten up right there.
franchise collins. sign the panthers RT williams w the rest of the signings being low $ roster filler type guys. first round pick then goes towards defense (BPA) and can use 2 of the middle round picks on interior OL (C/RG). rest of the picks i use towards defense or further depth for OL/WR or trading into the 2020 draft as that's the year i make the move for a QB (whatever it takes)
if additional cap space is needed for the above plan cut vernon. if not i'm ok with having him one more year.
i also lean towards giving jenkins one more year
Vernon is the worst contract on the team by far and contributes nothing. Cutting Vernon would save 11.5 million this year and 19.5 million the following year.
Vernon is the worst contract on the team by far and contributes nothing. Cutting Vernon would save 11.5 million this year and 19.5 million the following year.
with cap space rolling over year-to-year, wouldn't it be advisable to move on immediately from any and all items whose value doesn't align with their cap hit?
none of these things are mutually exclusive.
Moving on from Vernon seems obvious in all scenarios. Of course, doesn't guarantee anything.
THIS!!!
the fact is No-one will pay Manning $23.2 million next year -- no one
Giants need to say - Eli you have one more year with us if you take a pay cut
add a ton of incentives to his contract if he makes to playoffs , super bowl , MVP
if Eli says no -- Giants need to cut him and move on ..
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would Eli do that?
why wouldn't he? there is nothing that can't be negotiated with escalators, incentive bonuses, and even voidable years. He doesn't sacrifice a single dime in the example I provided and it removes all the uncertainty (and relentless questions) surrounding his status for 2019.
It's just not a good idea. Eli would be getting non-gtd years he's not going to agree to, and the Giants would be getting a cap hit on out years that are unnecessary. There isn't a problem here. Eli's cap hit next year isn't a problem. All this overthinking and trying to reduce the QB cap number is going to solve itself following the 2019 season when Eli moves on to another team or retires. This is just unnecessary.
You mentioned having a QB on his rookie deal, so that a theoretical $10 mil cap hit isn't a big deal. Nvm the overwhelming unlikelihood of such a deal coming to fruition, but the idea is to use all that cap savings of having a QB on a rookie deal to put a bunch of big-time talent around him...so that means using the cap savings on actual players on the team (hopefully good ones), not players that used to be on the team.
I wouldn't be opposed at all to approaching him for some relief but there's no reason to push any of his $ into the future in order to overspend on a lousy FA class if he declines. Have a clean set of books when we need to pay a little more than we want for a few key pieces around the next QB.
For me, the line is drawn at moving any amount of guaranteed money / cap hit into 2020 or beyond at this point.
Plenty of Cap room? Currently $32M or so, of which $10M is allocated to draft picks, and only 16 starters under contract, including Eli, OV and Chad Wheeler. Lotta work to do.
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The most simple solution is for Manning to take a straight pay cut for 2019.
THIS!!!
the fact is No-one will pay Manning $23.2 million next year -- no one
Giants need to say - Eli you have one more year with us if you take a pay cut
add a ton of incentives to his contract if he makes to playoffs , super bowl , MVP
if Eli says no -- Giants need to cut him and move on ..
Insulting. The Giants should not ask Eli to take a cut, and there is no reason for them to. And Eli shouldn't agree to a cut. He's been a consummate professional and brought championships to this team. To treat him that way in his final year would be an absolute disgrace.
The Giants can easily ride out his final year, and give him a dignified swan song he deserves.
For me, the line is drawn at moving any amount of guaranteed money / cap hit into 2020 or beyond at this point.
Plenty of Cap room? Currently $32M or so, of which $10M is allocated to draft picks, and only 16 starters under contract, including Eli, OV and Chad Wheeler. Lotta work to do.
Agree. Tons of work. So much that it could make one think it will take more than 1 more offseason to remedy things to a state where they're in healthy shape to make an annual contender.
...in which case...anything that amounts to prioritizing a 2019 run over maximum finances and flexibility in 2020/beyond may be a bad idea.
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Threads.
Vernon is the worst contract on the team by far and contributes nothing. Cutting Vernon would save 11.5 million this year and 19.5 million the following year.
with cap space rolling over year-to-year, wouldn't it be advisable to move on immediately from any and all items whose value doesn't align with their cap hit?
none of these things are mutually exclusive.
Moving on from Vernon seems obvious in all scenarios. Of course, doesn't guarantee anything.
Moving on from a serviceable QB by even most pessimistic standards isn’t the same decision as cutting a backup TE or backup RB.
His cap hit isn’t even egregious relative to the market and his peers. The only way you’re getting value at the position is with franchise QB on a rookie deal. That time will come but it isn’t now.
Vernon, Ellison, and Stewart are the contracts that need to be cut. Those cuts in addition to the space they already have will net 50 million in space — plenty of money to sign Collins if they want and add a few pieces to the OL/front 7 if the talent is there.
But to me, there isn't any justification for extending him right now / restructuring / doing anything that kicks any guaranteed Eli cap hit into 2020 or beyond.
why is it insulting ? The Giants have paid Manning VERYVERY well his entire career the good years and the terrible years.
Eli Manning has made the second most amount from his NFL contracts than any NFL player EVER (Peyton is number 1).
The reality is Manning is no longer a 22 million dollar a year QB. If Manning wants to play one more year with Giants then he should take a pay cut. it is just reality of situation .
He can split his current contract into 2 years to provide relieve!
But to me, there isn't any justification for extending him right now / restructuring / doing anything that kicks any guaranteed Eli cap hit into 2020 or beyond.
I think there’s merit to a sensible deal that keeps him through 2020. If the Giants get their QB in 20 having Eli provides a smooth transition. If the unthinkable happens and they miss out, at least they have something at QB.
Cutting Vernon this year opens up 19.5 million in 2020.
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Insulting. The Giants should not ask Eli to take a cut, and there is no reason for them to. And Eli shouldn't agree to a cut. He's been a consummate professional and brought championships to this team. To treat him that way in his final year would be an absolute disgrace.
why is it insulting ? The Giants have paid Manning VERYVERY well his entire career the good years and the terrible years.
Eli Manning has made the second most amount from his NFL contracts than any NFL player EVER (Peyton is number 1).
The reality is Manning is no longer a 22 million dollar a year QB. If Manning wants to play one more year with Giants then he should take a pay cut. it is just reality of situation .
A pay cut to what and who are you spending the savings on?
People have zero perspective. Go look at what Case Keenum is making.
you don't think having an extra 7 -10 million next year is a good thing for Giants?
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A pay cut to what and who are you spending the savings on?
you don't think having an extra 7 -10 million next year is a good thing for Giants?
Actually, no. The Giants ave enough cap space to get the one top and a few other FA that anyone can get anymore. There is too much money and too few FA available for any team to get much more than that no matter how much cap space they have.
Can we come back to reality?
The cut Eli at any cost crowd does not live in reality.
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A pay cut to what and who are you spending the savings on?
you don't think having an extra 7 -10 million next year is a good thing for Giants?
Cap space only matters relative to the rest of the league and if there’s players you’re trying to pay for. 7-10 million isn’t going to put the Giants in a position to outspend the league. There’s still teams with more cap space even if Eli’s hit was zero dollars.
A 7-10 mil cut puts him less than guys like Tyrod, Keenum, Tannehill, etc. not happening.
Vernon is the worst contract on the team by far and contributes nothing. Cutting Vernon would save 11.5 million this year and 19.5 million the following year.
You are such a disease.
But I don't think they are going to give him an additional 15 million signing bonus.
Eli already counts 6.2 million against the cap for next year, so 5 million from the signing bonus and 2 million in salary would make his cap number 13.2. Then they would have ten more million in dead money if they cut him after 2019.
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would Eli do that?
why wouldn't he? there is nothing that can't be negotiated with escalators, incentive bonuses, and even voidable years. He doesn't sacrifice a single dime in the example I provided and it removes all the uncertainty (and relentless questions) surrounding his status for 2019.
If I'm reading your suggestion right, he's sacrificing a year for no guaranteed incentive. He's sacrificing another year under contract. He could just play out his year under current contract and be a FA the following year. If he plays well, someone will pay him another big contract for more years (maybe the Giants). If he plays poorly, he can retire and get the same amount.
I wouldn't even consider that if I was Eli.
Like another poster said, if Tom Condon agreed to anything like that he'd never represent another player.
Dreamworld. Complete dreamworld.
It's a business. The players are in business, too. Eli has the leverage.
2. He can be released to open up a lot of cap space.
What's the worst that can happen if they cut him and play Lauletta or another kid? They go 5-11?
Grow up already and make the correct business decision.
So do it already. Haven't we done enough to his legacy? I don't want to see the guy retire with a losing record, and that's where this is headed.
Honestly, the best you can hope for (and I mean you generally) is that they like a guy enough to take him at 6 or trade up for, and he sits behind Manning to start the season.
It just makes the most sense for all parties.