What to do with Olivier Vernon??

ball out for another team.

been productive in one scheme and assume he can be more productive in a different scheme, even when it seems to better fit his skill set.

Some guys can do it, but most can’t.

And I really wanted to see the Giants play this hybrid D.

We need more pass rushers not less.

The ROI is not there for him anymore.
They will go younger through the draft and FA's
You can find a outside LB/edge rush in this draft and Carter is a solid prospect going into year 2.
Gettleman is fast to cut players on the downside and Vernon is on the backside of his career.
Too many injuries and age are catching up.
Cut bait.

step one try to restructure or pay cut if yes keep him. If no release him. I would expect the pay cut would be 3 or 4 mil or it doesn't make sense for OV

In comment 14242858 WillVAB said:

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Cutting him isn’t a one for one deal like the QB position. He’s not an elite ER. He’s not even a good ER. Vernon has been a non-factor for two years and he’s one of the highest paid defensive players in the league. Bum hunting a few sacks against backups doesn’t change that. The Giants need a guy that can close out games off the edge. The Giants can go a couple of ways with this. They can cut Vernon, use the savings to add a quality LB or two capable of blitzing/applying pressure, and then go Williams/Ferrell at 6 overall. They could also cut Vernon, add a cheaper run stopping 3-4 end, and add more of a traditional 3-4 OLB/ER in Josh Allen.

That's absolutely wrong. Vernon is a good player. The problem is he's being paid like a great player, and he's been oft injured since he arrived in NY.

His injury history doesn't bode well moving forward, but if he could stay healthy and his pay were closer in line to his production, he'd be a very useful part of this defense. Those are two big ifs, though.
PFF's ranking of Vernon - ( New Window )

if we cut him to sew up the contract to keep Eli. ; )

Seriously, Vernon has a highly sought after NFL skill. He has the ability to average double digit sacks if used correctly and, of course, if healthy. And he’s only 28.

My instinct says cut him because of the price tag and inability to stay on the field. But I would take my time here because it’s actually not so cut and dry based on the mobile QBs in our division.

out a mutually agreeable new contract.

wonder what numbers would work for both?

In comment 14242961 jcn56 said:

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In comment 14242858 WillVAB said: Quote: Cutting him isn’t a one for one deal like the QB position. He’s not an elite ER. He’s not even a good ER. Vernon has been a non-factor for two years and he’s one of the highest paid defensive players in the league. Bum hunting a few sacks against backups doesn’t change that. The Giants need a guy that can close out games off the edge. The Giants can go a couple of ways with this. They can cut Vernon, use the savings to add a quality LB or two capable of blitzing/applying pressure, and then go Williams/Ferrell at 6 overall. They could also cut Vernon, add a cheaper run stopping 3-4 end, and add more of a traditional 3-4 OLB/ER in Josh Allen. That's absolutely wrong. Vernon is a good player. The problem is he's being paid like a great player, and he's been oft injured since he arrived in NY. His injury history doesn't bode well moving forward, but if he could stay healthy and his pay were closer in line to his production, he'd be a very useful part of this defense. Those are two big ifs, though. PFF's ranking of Vernon - ( New Window )

Here we go w the PFF bullshit and pressure stats.

Vernon is not a playmaker, period. He’s had long stretches of games where he’s invisible.

His last snap where he whiffed on Dak was a microcosm of his career. Hopefully someone is dumb enough to trade a pick for him.

tackle grabbed inside of shoulder pads and held him just long e ough to allow Dak to escape.

.

When Reese signed him, it seemed like a smart acquisition. He was an ascending 25 year old who had no real history of being injured. The money was a lot, but that was what the market was demanding. The last two years he’s missed a lot of games and he is no longer that ascending young player. I’d take the savings and maybe invest it in a FS or a #2 WR. They are going to have to use the draft to fix the pass rush. Pass rushers in FA are too expensive and when you miss it hurts a lot more.

In comment 14243018 bc4life said:

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tackle grabbed inside of shoulder pads and held him just long e ough to allow Dak to escape.

False. He beat the backup tackle and whiffed.

But, we have holes to fill. Spend the money on OL and DB.

Carter and the 1st Rd pick will be our edge guys.

Time to move on from OV.

I think the Giants will go Edge Rusher (ROLB) in the draft and play Carter at LOLB.

Vernon isn't the guy we signed 3 years ago.

Too oft injured

In comment 14243003 WillVAB said:

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Here we go w the PFF bullshit and pressure stats. Vernon is not a playmaker, period. He’s had long stretches of games where he’s invisible. His last snap where he whiffed on Dak was a microcosm of his career. Hopefully someone is dumb enough to trade a pick for him.

I'll take PFF over your analysis any day. At least they're occasionally right.

If i am the Giants I’d be looking at 2 years for something in the 15mm range. Otherwise it’s thank you for your services And best of luck.

The issue is that we can say all we want about getting 2 pass rushers. They are difficult to find in the draft and they are harder to get in FA. One of the reasons why they signed him was he was a 25 yr old DE that showed that ability

Anthony Barr is a good LB, but he has 3 less career sacks than Devon Kennard

Look at the FA list and who is under 30

D. Lawrence - already making 17m
D. Fowler - he has already been a big disappointment
J. Clowney - he is going to break the bank
D. Ford is 28 and will get a ton of money
A. Barr
A. Lynch, S. Barrett, S. Ray, S. Anthony, D. Buchanan, A. Chickillo

Kennard got 3-17

I restructure and guarantee him 2-20 This get him guaranteed money, and lowers the number for savings of 5m per year

A rebuilding team can find better use of all the cap dollars it would save. He's just not a difference maker, and we need hungry ascending players that earn their paycheck in real time.

The cap savings in 7.5. Increasing this years savings by reducing next years savings is a fools errand and is irrelevant to the 2019 decision (unless you are desperate for cap savings which we are not). Using the 6th pick to "replace" OV means you are not going to be better in 2019. Signing high price free agents to replace him only puts us in this same position in a few years.

Anthony Barr is reportedly a knucklehead, buyer beware.

Wouldn't rest laurels on Carter, not remotely.

Ferrell looks like a 4-3 DE to me, not a 3-4 ER.

In comment 14243852 WillieYoung said:

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The cap savings in 7.5. Increasing this years savings by reducing next years savings is a fools errand and is irrelevant to the 2019 decision (unless you are desperate for cap savings which we are not). Using the 6th pick to "replace" OV means you are not going to be better in 2019. Signing high price free agents to replace him only puts us in this same position in a few years.

Huh? If the Giants cut Vernon they save 11.5 million in 19 and 19.5 million beyond.

Again, this isn’t a one for one deal. The Giants don’t need to replace him in FA. It’s a net positive for the Giants if they are able to add one or two quality FA’s on the OL and/or front 7 with the savings.

Vernon had 7 sacks this year. He’s not worth a 19.5 mil cap hit. Use the money on a player or players who can actually be difference makers.

Always hurt and didn’t help the D. He was good Year one and useless the last two. Keeping him at that salary would be insane.

If they think he can be of any use the they have to have him to do a realistic incentive laden restructure. He should be one of the first guys asked not to bother coming back if he doesn’t take a huge cut

Trade him or cut him.

wtf?

In comment 14244805 Damon said:

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Trade him or cut him.

The only way to view this is if he is a 'locker room' issue kind of guy. If they were willing to pay for quality locker room guys like stewart and omameh and vernon is quality, then then I think DG makes more of an effort to keep him. If not, they traded more impactful players in Apple and Snacks, why wouldn't they get rid of an attitude with salary?

best defensive player. The defense is already bad. Getting rid of him will make it awfully hard for the defense to really turn around in 2019.

injury issues the last 2 seasons is predictive of his future health going forward but he's missed 9 games the last 2 seasons.

The 5 seasons prior to that he missed 0 games. Just putting some of these "he's hurt all the time" comments into perspective.

Having said that, I agree he is overpaid but if he is willing to restructure I would bring him back.

Please

not sure what we can get for him...
The Giants only save 7.5 million by cutting him... And you need a replacement...

On the other hand it is attractive to get him off the books for 2020.

If we can't trade him, I am inclined to let it be. Another bad contract Reese saddled us with.