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Most throws 20+ yards down the field.....

Britt in VA : 1/1/2019 8:30 pm
Saw Bob Papa arguing with other Giants "fans" on twitter about Eli not being able to throw the ball down field anymore...

Somebody posted this graphic, which I hadn't seen. The Giants were in the Top 10 of most attempted 20 plus yard throws with 57 attempts.

But they were number one in completion percentage on them.

Cool  
Default : 1/1/2019 8:33 pm : link
What about 30+ yards?
2 were Odell  
UConn4523 : 1/1/2019 8:33 pm : link
!
Which BBI'er is this?  
Britt in VA : 1/1/2019 8:35 pm : link
Quote:
Anthony Parasole


@AnthonyParasole
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Replying to @bigblue6483 @Tclaytes and 3 others
I am a giant fan who lives in reality and his play is pathetic and fans who shower him with rose pedals like you even thou he can't throw the ball 30 yards accurately and can't move one step to the right or left to avoid a defender and falls down by the sheer sound of a footstep


Here's Bob's response:

Quote:
Bob Papa

Verified account

@BobPapa_NFL
29m29 minutes ago
More Bob Papa Retweeted Anthony Parasole
I guess i imagined the throw to Shep in Indy that went 60 yards in the air, after he had to slide to his left and then they a shot in the face. Must have been a Ghost if Christmas past


And another:

Quote:
Anthony Parasole


@AnthonyParasole
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Replying to @BobPapa_NFL
@BobPapa_NFL oh yeah then why was the 2 longest td passes of this season happen to be thrown by the WR, did you see those or you convinetly forgot they happened?


Quote:
Bob Papa

Verified account

@BobPapa_NFL
19m19 minutes ago
More Bob Papa Retweeted Anthony Parasole
Saw every snap. Enjoy your New Year
Most of the teams on  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/1/2019 8:36 pm : link
This list weíre chasing points to win besides the Bears. I would bet thatís why they are all close to the top.
I don't know why Bob would even interact with such people.  
Diver_Down : 1/1/2019 8:40 pm : link
"Rose Pedals"? Probably the same shade on Anthony's sissy bike.
I like how the counter argument became about  
aka dbrny : 1/1/2019 8:41 pm : link
The two passes not thrown by the QB
Chasing points?  
Britt in VA : 1/1/2019 8:41 pm : link
?
I'm surprised  
Sammo85 : 1/1/2019 8:43 pm : link
to see the Jets on the list.
Biggest takeaway is that the majority of the completion percentage  
Diver_Down : 1/1/2019 8:45 pm : link
is 30-40%. Then there is Dollhands Darnold putting up a solid 17%. So far, he isn't durable. Can't throw the long ball. And challenged Peyton's rookie turnover record. But he has great hair.
RE: I don't know why Bob would even interact with such people.  
Britt in VA : 1/1/2019 8:48 pm : link
In comment 14243440 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
"Rose Pedals"? Probably the same shade on Anthony's sissy bike.


Maybe Bob's getting sick of it, also.
RE: I don't know why Bob would even interact with such people.  
aka dbrny : 1/1/2019 8:52 pm : link
In comment 14243440 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
"Rose Pedals"? Probably the same shade on Anthony's sissy bike.


Had one beer to many and had a moment of weakness
RE: RE: I don't know why Bob would even interact with such people.  
Diver_Down : 1/1/2019 8:54 pm : link
In comment 14243463 aka dbrny said:
Quote:
In comment 14243440 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


"Rose Pedals"? Probably the same shade on Anthony's sissy bike.



Had one beer to many and had a moment of weakness


You're Anthony?
Eli still had nice long throws and  
SHO'NUFF : 1/1/2019 8:55 pm : link
dropped dimes to the sidelines... there was one pretty teardrop pass to, I think, Fowler on the sidelines in one game that made me say wow.
But eli canít throw the long ball anymore  
speedywheels : 1/1/2019 8:55 pm : link
Or so weíve been told...
Not really any big point here but  
steve in ky : 1/1/2019 8:57 pm : link
I believe that throw to Shep went 50 yards in the air, not 60 as Papa suggests.
So they completed  
Les in TO : 1/1/2019 9:07 pm : link
25 passes of 20+ yards (intermediate to long distance) or less than 1.5 per game factoring in two of those 25 completed passes were by Odell. Where were those passes when the games mattered in the first half of the season or when we just needed to get into field goal territory to beat the colts or cowboys
I have found Bob  
mattyblue : 1/1/2019 9:10 pm : link
to have become obnoxious lately. Nothing to do with Eli but he seems more like Francesca nowadays. Iím not a big sports radio guy but I hate the crotchety attitude
Eli can still throw a long ball,  
Doomster : 1/1/2019 9:15 pm : link
if he has the time to loop it.....

But he can't fire the ball on a line into a tight window anymore....

His long balls have too much air under them....
RE: Chasing points?  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/1/2019 9:22 pm : link
In comment 14243443 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
?


Didnít see the Chiefs the first time I looked at the chart. 7 out of 10 of those teams are pretty bad teams that more then likely ended up tossing long balls to try to get back into games. That is all Iím saying. Itís not the only factor but itís part of the equation.
Giant fans are really embarrassing themselves  
aimrocky : 1/1/2019 9:25 pm : link
When it comes to this debate. Like most debates, the solution lies in the middle. Sure, Eli is a contributor to the issues we have seen. Is he the #1 problem, no. Can they compete with him after adding some more pieces? Yes. Should the Giants entertain upgrades, short and long term? Yes.

Iím not sure why the majority of fans canít boil it down to this.
RE: Not really any big point here but  
christian : 1/1/2019 9:25 pm : link
In comment 14243472 steve in ky said:
Quote:
I believe that throw to Shep went 50 yards in the air, not 60 as Papa suggests.


That's also exactly my recollection. I just watched the video on Giants.com, Manning's lead foot was on the 30 and Shep caught it on the Colts 20.

Very good play, but a little exaggerated on the distance.

For discussion's sake is 1.5 completions per game of 20 yards in the air on average for Manning's career?

I also don't think anyone has claimed Manning cannot throw it 20 yards well downfield.
With all of the positive stuff being posted about this season,  
Go Terps : 1/1/2019 9:26 pm : link
I guess the 5-11 record must have been the result of bad luck and terrible officiating.

I can't recall such a bad team getting so many positive reviews.
RE: With all of the positive stuff being posted about this season,  
Giants38 : 1/1/2019 9:34 pm : link
In comment 14243516 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I guess the 5-11 record must have been the result of bad luck and terrible officiating.

I can't recall such a bad team getting so many positive reviews.


It's more important to look at where the reviews are coming from. Not one objective source believes the Giants are a good team or that Eli truly believes to remain with this team next year. Instead, it's Carl Banks, Bob Papa, etc. - shills for the organization - that continually disseminate the Giants' message.
When Terps son brings home a report card with straight A's  
j_rud : 1/1/2019 9:47 pm : link
he scoffs, citing the soft curriculum and coddling nature of elementary school teachers while warning the poor kid that his paycheck will be meted out in yuan.


You obviously know the game, and I agree with a lot of what you say. I'm not embarrassed to say that I learn quite a bit from your posts. But for fucks sake man, take a break with it already.
Does the 44 % completion  
SJGiant : 1/1/2019 9:54 pm : link
Rate count the interceptions to the other team? Just kidding..
Rose pedals  
Amazinz : 1/1/2019 9:54 pm : link
is awesome.

But Papa seems like he may have been sipping the juice himself.
Iíve heard enough from these anti Eli idiots.  
Giant John : 1/1/2019 10:08 pm : link
Heís the best QB to ever suit up for the Giants. Appreciate him while you have him. Giants will miss him when heís gone. Show some class.
RE: When Terps son brings home a report card with straight A's  
Go Terps : 1/1/2019 10:12 pm : link
In comment 14243561 j_rud said:
Quote:
he scoffs, citing the soft curriculum and coddling nature of elementary school teachers while warning the poor kid that his paycheck will be meted out in yuan.


You obviously know the game, and I agree with a lot of what you say. I'm not embarrassed to say that I learn quite a bit from your posts. But for fucks sake man, take a break with it already.


That's pretty funny. Unfortunately I'm this case the kid brought home straight Fs, and he did it for the fourth out of five years.

The Giants are shaping up to still be loving at home at 40. That shit ain't acceptable.
*living  
Go Terps : 1/1/2019 10:12 pm : link
.
RE: Eli can still throw a long ball,  
section125 : 1/1/2019 10:12 pm : link
In comment 14243494 Doomster said:
Quote:
if he has the time to loop it.....

But he can't fire the ball on a line into a tight window anymore....

His long balls have too much air under them....


Most long balls have air under them so the receivers can run under the ball, well at least the ones you want to complete..
RE: Eli can still throw a long ball,  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/1/2019 11:11 pm : link
In comment 14243494 Doomster said:
Quote:
if he has the time to loop it.....

But he can't fire the ball on a line into a tight window anymore....

His long balls have too much air under them....


What I often find amusing in many of the comments about Eli this past month or so, since I've returned here, is the invention of an Eli that never was for comparison to the Eli of today.

Eli ALWAYS HAD more air under his long throws than other strong armed QBs like Rodgers or Cutler. And I put Eli in that group, because he was and still is above average in arm strength. But he always looped his passes rather than fired them on a line. Go back and look at videos of his most celebrated tosses to Tyree and Manningham, are they frozen ropes? Not at all.
Am I the only one who saw the 44% completion percentage?  
JOrthman : 1/2/2019 4:10 am : link
.
RE: Am I the only one who saw the 44% completion percentage?  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/2/2019 4:21 am : link
In comment 14243699 JOrthman said:
Quote:
.


Well to be honest, without OBJ's two for two bombs its only 42%...
Eli dropped 2-3 or more dimes on a nickle  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/2/2019 4:23 am : link
up the sidelines versus the Boys last week, too.
Check down charlie  
map7711 : 1/2/2019 7:13 am : link
Oops.
RE: Check down charlie  
Diver_Down : 1/2/2019 7:14 am : link
In comment 14243732 map7711 said:
Quote:
Oops.


Don't you mean, Dink and Dunk Darnold?
RE: RE: Chasing points?  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 7:48 am : link
In comment 14243505 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
In comment 14243443 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


?



Didnít see the Chiefs the first time I looked at the chart. 7 out of 10 of those teams are pretty bad teams that more then likely ended up tossing long balls to try to get back into games. That is all Iím saying. Itís not the only factor but itís part of the equation.


I've heard garbage time touchdowns, but now there are garbage time deep balls?
RE: When Terps son brings home a report card with straight A's  
jcn56 : 1/2/2019 7:59 am : link
In comment 14243561 j_rud said:
Quote:
he scoffs, citing the soft curriculum and coddling nature of elementary school teachers while warning the poor kid that his paycheck will be meted out in yuan.


You obviously know the game, and I agree with a lot of what you say. I'm not embarrassed to say that I learn quite a bit from your posts. But for fucks sake man, take a break with it already.


You know who needs to take a break already? The Giants PR machine. They can try to spin this any way they like, but the product on the field has been garbage for quite some time. Papa is starting to look ridiculous with some of his back and forth.

Even better, anyone who'd call people "fans" for having complaints about this shit. I put them right next to people who consider themselves real "Americans" because they won't tolerate complaints about the US, as if somehow improving the place is off the table.
haha, okay dude....  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 8:02 am : link
.
Some football people MUCH smarter than me  
Andy in Halifax : 1/2/2019 8:04 am : link
(I think it was Bruce Arians) said that he won't judge a new offense until after 8 games. Second half of the year we averaged over 27 points a game. The offense wasn't great, I'd say it was average but a hell of a lot closer to being very good than the defense.
Bruce Arians..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 8:14 am : link
has terrible judgement in hats, so I will ignore any of his advice!!

RE: RE: RE: Chasing points?  
section125 : 1/2/2019 8:22 am : link
In comment 14243751 Britt in VA said:
Quote:


I've heard garbage time touchdowns, but now there are garbage time deep balls?


Britt one man's garbage is another man's TD....
This is a very strange statistic  
eugibs : 1/2/2019 8:36 am : link
First of all, why "20+ yards" downfield? Why not "15+ yards" or "25+ yards"? Seems like a highly arbitrary distance.

Second, this statistic does not mean that the Giants were the most effective team at throwing the ball "20+ yards" downfield. All it means is that they have the highest completion percentage of the ten teams that attempted the most "20+ yards" throws. For example, the Titans are in the bottom ten of teams in terms of attempts, but have an identical 44% completion percentage to the Giants.

Finally, there are countless reasons why teams do and do no attempt many throws downfield. Of the top ten teams on that list, only 2 are playoff teams and the quarterbacks on the list are a hodgepodge ranging from the best statistical quarterback in the league this season (Mahomes) to three of the four rookies, who each had their fair share of struggles. I think this totally random assortment of teams and quarterbacks shows that the stat is pretty much meaningless.

This stat is the equivalent of evaluating a three point shooter's effectiveness based on his percentage ranking of shots made "25+ feet" from the basket as compared with the other 9 guys in the league who attempted the most "25+ foot" shots.
Looks like this was Eli & Co.ís sweet spot  
Jimmy Googs : 1/2/2019 8:45 am : link
Look forward to all the 20+ throws in 2019 to take advantage of this mismatch we have on Offense...
I think I'm beginning to see what you guys are getting at.....  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 8:54 am : link
The Giants are good at nothing, Eli is a piece of crap that until he is replaced the Giants will continue to be good at nothing, the GM sucks and the Coach sucks and need to be fired, and any statistic to the contrary is made up to spin a public relations narrative.

Does that about sum it up?
Yes...  
JCin332 : 1/2/2019 9:07 am : link
..
Well we must be good at pass blocking because you need time  
Jimmy Googs : 1/2/2019 9:09 am : link
to effectively run and complete deeper routes.

Contrary to popular opinion, we should probably invest less in the Oline going forward.

RE: Well we must be good at pass blocking because you need time  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 9:10 am : link
In comment 14243843 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
to effectively run and complete deeper routes.

Contrary to popular opinion, we should probably invest less in the Oline going forward.


Actually, its quite opposite.... Go routes you dont need a lot of time in the pocket. And a lot of our completions are.
RE: RE: RE: Chasing points?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/2/2019 9:13 am : link
In comment 14243751 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14243505 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 14243443 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


?



Didnít see the Chiefs the first time I looked at the chart. 7 out of 10 of those teams are pretty bad teams that more then likely ended up tossing long balls to try to get back into games. That is all Iím saying. Itís not the only factor but itís part of the equation.



I've heard garbage time touchdowns, but now there are garbage time deep balls?


Well, you certainly throw more when you're trailing, but I'm not sure the data actually bears this out.


Well then letís run  
Jimmy Googs : 1/2/2019 9:13 am : link
more go routes. We can still save on Oline investment then.
RE: Well we must be good at pass blocking because you need time  
Diver_Down : 1/2/2019 9:13 am : link
In comment 14243843 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
to effectively run and complete deeper routes.

Contrary to popular opinion, we should probably invest less in the Oline going forward.


I would be curious if there is a correlation to the longer passes and the naked boots/rollouts. Shurmur made an emphasis to change "the launch point". And he also stated that Eli is comfortable doing it despite the narrative that Eli can't move. He mentioned that Eli had more designed rollouts last year than he did his entire professional career and hadn't done so much since Ole Miss.
RE: RE: Well we must be good at pass blocking because you need time  
crick n NC : 1/2/2019 9:23 am : link
In comment 14243850 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14243843 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


to effectively run and complete deeper routes.

Contrary to popular opinion, we should probably invest less in the Oline going forward.




I would be curious if there is a correlation to the longer passes and the naked boots/rollouts. Shurmur made an emphasis to change "the launch point". And he also stated that Eli is comfortable doing it despite the narrative that Eli can't move. He mentioned that Eli had more designed rollouts last year than he did his entire professional career and hadn't done so much since Ole Miss.


👍
Eli's biggest problem....  
jonnyess : 1/2/2019 11:03 am : link
for the most part....is NOT throwing the long ball...or the short ball...or ANY ball.

It's his decision making, largely driven by years of getting pummeled back there. The few times he has a clean pocket, he automatically makes a throw after 3 seconds, regardless if anyone's open or if he may have had additional time.
What am I  
lax counsel : 1/2/2019 11:30 am : link
To infer from this stat? What's the takeaway? Should we expect that the Giants 2019 downfield passing game will be a strength based on this measure? I have some more stats that are relevant, 7-9,6-10,6-10,11-5,3-13, and 5-11. Those are the Giants record's since 2013.

In 2013 I heard that the strong finish will carryover to 2014, result: 6-10. In 2015 I heard that the Giants had a strong offense that only went 6-10 and lost many close games; results were better next year, driven by a great defense and putrid offense. I heard at the end of 2016 if the offense could match the 2015 offense, Giants were winning a SB, result 3-13. I think you can see where I am going with this, there is no carryover from one year to the next. Sans drastic changes, bad teams generally continue to be bad. We can spin the season anyway we want, but the results were bad, just as they have been for some time. I just cannot get excited over statistical measures like these.
RE: RE: RE: Chasing points?  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/2/2019 11:48 am : link
In comment 14243751 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14243505 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


In comment 14243443 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


?



Didnít see the Chiefs the first time I looked at the chart. 7 out of 10 of those teams are pretty bad teams that more then likely ended up tossing long balls to try to get back into games. That is all Iím saying. Itís not the only factor but itís part of the equation.



I've heard garbage time touchdowns, but now there are garbage time deep balls?


I didn't say it was the only reason, I said it was probably part of the reason. No need to be a jackass.
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