USA Today end of regular season mock draft: Haskins to NYG

is Jameis Winston of the Bucs. Almost the same size, comparable arm strength, both can run ok but don't use it to really gain yards (just to get out of trouble), and both seem like leaders that their team mates like. So would everyone be ok committing to a player like Winston at QB, or would you want better? Remember Winston is still young.

overestimating the competition thing. Look at Wentz in college. You have to see the projection beyond just the stats and what teams they played.

In comment 14244012 Dutch77 said:

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In comment 14243977 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 14243959 Dutch77 said: Quote: Dep026, what does that have to do with the play of Dwayne Haskins? Washingtons defense is ranked high because the teams they played are putrid. Thats my point. Haskins is a project. He has skills, everyone agrees on that. But are his skills because of the system/OL/WRs abilities? IMO, I dont think he is as mobile as people think. I think playing against bigger and faster defenses will negate the mobility he has. Plus, I have seen him play a lot this year - probably the 2nd most team I watched this year and when pressured, which was a rarity, it wasnt pretty. he did have some monster games. And I know Michigan was one of them - but he wasnt breathed on in that game and took advantage of a guy who shouldnt have been playing. Kudos to him for that, but that wont happen in the NFL where almost every player belongs. I can respect your opinion but if not Haskins, who do you think is worthy of being drafted to play QB for us?

I wanted Darnold last year. This year..... I would say either Haskins or Jones maybe in the 2nd round, but not at 6.

Jacob Eason has me intrigued for next year.

In comment 14244022 PatersonPlank said:

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is Jameis Winston of the Bucs. Almost the same size, comparable arm strength, both can run ok but don't use it to really gain yards (just to get out of trouble), and both seem like leaders that their team mates like. So would everyone be ok committing to a player like Winston at QB, or would you want better? Remember Winston is still young.

That's a tough question. Are we getting Winston without the extra shit? If so yes.

In comment 14243968 Dutch77 said:

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In comment 14243958 JonC said: Quote: I was ready to let Eli go with McAdoo. JonC, I’m with you with moving on from Eli. Drafting ANY QB is a risk. There is not exact science. It just seems like we love some prospects and not others. Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it. But it seems like we are good with waiting for the perfect prospect which doesn’t exist.

I think it would be good to move on from Eli for several reasons.

One- even with Eli returning, this is NOT a playoff team- too many holes on defense to fix in one off-season.

Two- Eli probably only has one or two good years left- better for him to go to a team ready to compete and needs to buy some time at QB while making a playoff run.

Three- whoever replaces Eli is going to measured against him unfairly. Better to do that with some short term vet QB rather than a rookie who may wilt under that microscope. I think it is better to let the next high pick QB be someone who isn't replacing a franchise legend, but is instead replacing a journeyman.

zero chance that Haskins falls to the 2nd round, so we would have to take him at 6 (if he's there) or trade up in the 1st to get him after we take someone at 6.

and then being the starter in 2020 is a pretty good scenario to me.

In comment 14244022 PatersonPlank said:

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is Jameis Winston of the Bucs. Almost the same size, comparable arm strength, both can run ok but don't use it to really gain yards (just to get out of trouble), and both seem like leaders that their team mates like. So would everyone be ok committing to a player like Winston at QB, or would you want better? Remember Winston is still young.

Winston has the talent to be a franchise QB. It's the mental aspects and consistency that he lacks.

In your hypothetical, are we assuming Haskins has the same decision making issues as Winston?

In comment 14244026 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 14244022 PatersonPlank said: Quote: is Jameis Winston of the Bucs. Almost the same size, comparable arm strength, both can run ok but don't use it to really gain yards (just to get out of trouble), and both seem like leaders that their team mates like. So would everyone be ok committing to a player like Winston at QB, or would you want better? Remember Winston is still young. That's a tough question. Are we getting Winston without the extra shit? If so yes.

I think I agree with you. Winston with extra shit would work for me. Have him sit in 2019 and learn behind Eli, then take over in 2020.

either through FA or draft. If we go Haskins, we'll miss out on all the really good Pass Rushers. I'm ok with that as long as we cover ourselves in Free Agency. This is going to be an extremely important off-season for this team. DG will probably need to create more cap room though to be able to bring in more talent in FA.

last year at this time, Mayfield was thought to be a marginal first rounder. Look what happened. Haskins and Jones look to me like mid 1st rd types. By draft time who knows? (Doesn't mean Gettleman will see them as top, middle, or end of the round values. QB's are so subjective its not funny.

on and off the field. He just hasn't had a dominant D and running game to support him. Winston also playing in the post-Rice environment, whereas Big Ben completely skated on the allegations against him.

If you can get a similarly talented and (hopefully) more mature Winston in the draft, you run to the podium.

In comment 14244049 Dave on the UWS said:

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last year at this time, Mayfield was thought to be a marginal first rounder. Look what happened. Haskins and Jones look to me like mid 1st rd types. By draft time who knows? (Doesn't mean Gettleman will see them as top, middle, or end of the round values. QB's are so subjective its not funny.

Not sure how quickly after the season they run the #s, but Football Outsiders had Mayfield as their top QB from the start:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/qbase-2018

In comment 14244030 ryanmkeane said:

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and then being the starter in 2020 is a pretty good scenario to me.

I’d be good with that.

just that many scouts look at the wrong stats/tools. Their rankings for last year:

Mayfield



Jackson
Rosen
Darnold
Rudolph
Falk
Lauletta



Allen

Now, it's way too early to make any definitive statements about the QBs, but they look to have nailed the Mayfield pick and you can argue they ranked the top 4 correctly as well.

In comment 14244023 ryanmkeane said:

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overestimating the competition thing. Look at Wentz in college. You have to see the projection beyond just the stats and what teams they played.

Did you watch Wentz at all at NDSU?

He jumped off the screen with his arm and athleticism. It was clear he was a D1 player who happened to be playing for a 1-AA school. He was 6'5", 235 and ran a 4.7 forty. Haskins is not the physical specimen that Wentz was/is.

not that its the all to end all stat for QBs. But he just looks slow to me. I would be shocked if he ran under 4.8

In comment 14244087 dep026 said:

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not that its the all to end all stat for QBs. But he just looks slow to me. I would be shocked if he ran under 4.8

I mean he's a PP. He's not a scrambler. I'm guessing he'll run in the 4.9s or maybe 5's

In comment 14244087 dep026 said:

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not that its the all to end all stat for QBs. But he just looks slow to me. I would be shocked if he ran under 4.8

I'll bet he beats Eli's and Peyton's time - ha ha

In comment 14243888 Tim in JTown said:
[quote] I could see a scenario where we trade OBJ, pick up some draft picks, and start building the team more around Barkley. Pick up a game changing DE in the first, go OL 2,3 or 4.

If we go QB, I like Will Grier. [/quote

Grier is a bum, benefited from a system designed to make QBs look good I.e see Geno Smith. We’re not trading OBJ so get off that wagon and Haskins is a different QB from anything Meyer ever put on the field. If he’s the pick so be it.

looks somewhat slow but fluid to me. Not unlike Matt Stafford in that respect, but very much UNLIKE Eli who struggles when moving (especially laterally). Its not only that he can't avoid much in terms of the rush, but his accuracy is greatly compromised when moving. Haskins seems to have the athleticism to slide, especially to his right, and deliver a strike.

The arm strength and accuracy are very impressive.

Height will be interesting. Greater than or equal to 6'3" would be better than 6'2" or less.

Strength wise, he is fine.

It is interesting and encouraging that he seems to be so poised as it relates to moving defenders with his eyes so early in his career.

In comment 14243941 nyjuggernaut2 said:

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ROUND 1 - (trade back w/ Broncos, receive their 10th pick, '19 3rd round pick, and their 2020 1st next year) At #10 draft ILB Devin White. ROUND 2 - Draft QB Drew Lock, Missouri. ROUND 3 (f/ Denver) - Draft C Tyler Biadasz, Wisconsin ROUND 4 - Draft Edge rusher Austin Bryant, Clemson ROUND 4 (f/NO) - Draft WR Riley Ridley from Georgia.

We don’t need an ILB, Tyler Biadasz, if he declares won’t make it to the 3rd round, we need a pass rush badly, and Austin Bryant ain’t it. I’d be ok with Lock in the second but rather Daniel Jones

Think again.

In comment 14244128 tyrik13 said:

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In comment 14243888 Tim in JTown said: [quote] I could see a scenario where we trade OBJ, pick up some draft picks, and start building the team more around Barkley. Pick up a game changing DE in the first, go OL 2,3 or 4. If we go QB, I like Will Grier. [/quote Grier is a bum, benefited from a system designed to make QBs look good I.e see Geno Smith.

Can you be lazier with your analysis? Grier plays nothing like Geno Smith. Yes, they both went to Morgantown. After that, there are no similarities.

In comment 14243809 bw in dc said:

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and think the BPA approach produces the same number of misses, if not more, than need. It’s one of the dumber ideas ever concocted in football.

Can you even think of a team that consistently drafts solely via the BPA approach and supports your claim? I can't.

In comment 14243930 dep026 said:

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In comment 14243921 oldutican said: Quote: find reasons not to take a QB. Should be especially fun with Haskins. Cause we dont see the value or see better player? Yeah, thats a lot of fun.

If you're being honest with yourself, you'd realize that your opinion regarding the relative value of QB prospects in the draft will be treated about as objectively as a vegan reviewing porterhouse steaks.

In comment 14244255 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 14243930 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 14243921 oldutican said: Quote: find reasons not to take a QB. Should be especially fun with Haskins. Cause we dont see the value or see better player? Yeah, thats a lot of fun. If you're being honest with yourself, you'd realize that your opinion regarding the relative value of QB prospects in the draft will be treated about as objectively as a vegan reviewing porterhouse steaks.

So if I say I like a QB - it doesnt matter either....

Ah the new BBI. Where the posters are shittier than the Giants.

is greatly appreciated by this fan

is rarely clear cut. The exceptions are: 1) the top of the draft when there are a couple elite prospects that may not align with a teams needs (i.e. the Barkley vs QBs debate) and 2) teams reaching for a position (e.g. Flowers/Apple).

Even Barkley filled a gaping hole (no pun intended) for the Giants though. And with Flowers/Apple the issue is the players taken as much as the positions they tried to fill. If Peat had been selected instead of Flowers, many wouldn't feel like the Giants "reached" for a player, though the result may not have been much better. Similarly, if Reeese had selected Hargreaves (who most draft pundits had ranked higher) the pick wouldn't be considered a reach even though Hargreaves hasn't been much better.

In other words, the issue with the Giants drafting was in evaluating the players themselves and not necessarily how they weight BPA and need.

are typically found later, the OLBs are typically your higher value prospects.

If they pick an ILB at #6, it's not a great sign regarding the talent level of the top prospects.

If he's there at #6 - assuming Allen is gone -- he should be the pick. Could be NYG's version of Aaron Donald - except 3 inches taller.

As to Haskins - I just don't think he's close to BPA at the #6 spot. And the D is a much, much bigger need in the draft. Don't force a QB pick.

bw is correct, Wentz leaped off the screen and he exploded up the draft boards. Haskins doesn't leap off the screen at me so far. Plenty of time for him to try and change minds, and hey a lot of known draftniks like the kid's NFL upside, TBD.

Winston is a low maturity/intelligence gamble. He's got some football moxie and was overrated imo coming off that FSU title team. But, he's been a disappointment (as suspected he would be) in the NFL to far.

I wouldn't use Winston as any sort of shining beacon, nor try to downplay Wentz's college tape.

DT doesn't make a ton of sense unless it's a NT with dominant upside, imv.

In comment 14244306 JonC said:

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DT doesn't make a ton of sense unless it's a NT with dominant upside, imv.

Ed Oliver at 6? Thoughts on him?

.

In comment 14244312 JonC said:

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.

To me, I don't think a NT makes sense. They need an edge, whether is be from the 5-tech DT/DE to play up front or 7-tech pass rushing OLB like Josh Allen.

I caught a bit of Gettleman's conference and a very interesting tidbit was when he was asked about trading Snacks Harrison. He said that Snacks was playing the 1-tech, Tomlinson the 3-tech, and Hill was playing the 5-tech, and that really Tomlinson was a 1-tech and Hill was really a 3-tech. So the trade allowed those two players to play their more natural positions. The takeaway from that is that a dominating 5-tech with elite pass-rush talent would fit this team like a glove.

whether it's a 34 or 43 team. The only LBs since 2010 taken top 10 are:

R Smith
Floyd
Mack
Barr
Kuechly
Von Miller
Aldon Smith
Rolando McClain

Of those 8, only Smith, Kuechly and McClain are ILBs. The rest were drafted as edge rushers.

In comment 14244260 dep026 said:

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In comment 14244255 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 14243930 dep026 said: Quote: In comment 14243921 oldutican said: Quote: find reasons not to take a QB. Should be especially fun with Haskins. Cause we dont see the value or see better player? Yeah, thats a lot of fun. If you're being honest with yourself, you'd realize that your opinion regarding the relative value of QB prospects in the draft will be treated about as objectively as a vegan reviewing porterhouse steaks. So if I say I like a QB - it doesnt matter either.... Ah the new BBI. Where the posters are shittier than the Giants.

Ah, dep - don't kid yourself, you were part of the old BBI too. So some of the posters have been shitty for a while.

In comment 14244330 giants#1 said:

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whether it's a 34 or 43 team. The only LBs since 2010 taken top 10 are: R Smith Floyd Mack Barr Kuechly Von Miller Aldon Smith Rolando McClain Of those 8, only Smith, Kuechly and McClain are ILBs. The rest were drafted as edge rushers.

Well it's not that rare, those 3 guys are about 38% of your list there!

Haskins's rating, in particular, dips real low when pressured, meaning he's reliant on blue chip blocking up front.

They have to get off the field on 3rd down.

In comment 14244342 allstarjim said:

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In comment 14244330 giants#1 said: Quote: whether it's a 34 or 43 team. The only LBs since 2010 taken top 10 are: R Smith Floyd Mack Barr Kuechly Von Miller Aldon Smith Rolando McClain Of those 8, only Smith, Kuechly and McClain are ILBs. The rest were drafted as edge rushers. Well it's not that rare, those 3 guys are about 38% of your list there!

But 3 guys in 9 drafts. And none of those 3 were taken above pick 8.

Looked at another way, ILBs are only taken in the top 10 once every three drafts. And none higher than pick 8. Off the top of my head, the only positions valued less (excluding K/P/FB) are TE and OC. Even OGs and S have been selected higher.

that would be considered Blue chip, if any?

In comment 14244318 allstarjim said:

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In comment 14244312 JonC said: Quote: . To me, I don't think a NT makes sense. They need an edge, whether is be from the 5-tech DT/DE to play up front or 7-tech pass rushing OLB like Josh Allen. I caught a bit of Gettleman's conference and a very interesting tidbit was when he was asked about trading Snacks Harrison. He said that Snacks was playing the 1-tech, Tomlinson the 3-tech, and Hill was playing the 5-tech, and that really Tomlinson was a 1-tech and Hill was really a 3-tech. So the trade allowed those two players to play their more natural positions. The takeaway from that is that a dominating 5-tech with elite pass-rush talent would fit this team like a glove.

Pressure up the middle matters too. Can't just be the edges. We've seen how collapsing the pocket helps a defense. Edge rushers can be pushed to the sides of the QB. Pressure up the middle changes the play.

In comment 14244318 allstarjim said:

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In comment 14244312 JonC said: Quote: . To me, I don't think a NT makes sense. They need an edge, whether is be from the 5-tech DT/DE to play up front or 7-tech pass rushing OLB like Josh Allen. I caught a bit of Gettleman's conference and a very interesting tidbit was when he was asked about trading Snacks Harrison. He said that Snacks was playing the 1-tech, Tomlinson the 3-tech, and Hill was playing the 5-tech, and that really Tomlinson was a 1-tech and Hill was really a 3-tech. So the trade allowed those two players to play their more natural positions. The takeaway from that is that a dominating 5-tech with elite pass-rush talent would fit this team like a glove.

I agree re: NT, I was alluding to Oliver speculation.

I wouldn't force the ER pick at #6, but a DT or ILB doesn't seem likely in terms of value.

In comment 14244384 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Pressure up the middle matters too. Can't just be the edges. We've seen how collapsing the pocket helps a defense. Edge rushers can be pushed to the sides of the QB. Pressure up the middle changes the play.

Hill showed some potential there. He's not Aaron Donald, but 5.5 sacks, 6 TFLs, and 8 QBHits is solid penetration from a 34 DE. The sack/QBHit numbers could see an uptick if/when they get a legitimate edge rusher that forces QBs to step up or move around a bit (or not drop as deep to begin with).

In comment 14244128 tyrik13 said:

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In comment 14243888 Tim in JTown said: [quote] I could see a scenario where we trade OBJ, pick up some draft picks, and start building the team more around Barkley. Pick up a game changing DE in the first, go OL 2,3 or 4. If we go QB, I like Will Grier. [/quote Grier is a bum, benefited from a system designed to make QBs look good I.e see Geno Smith. We’re not trading OBJ so get off that wagon and Haskins is a different QB from anything Meyer ever put on the field. If he’s the pick so be it.

Grier is anything but a bum. 2nd best pro style quarterback coming out of North Carolina, he has won everywhere he's been. You clearly have not watched tape on him because he consistently makes full field reads.

I'm warming to Haskins. He keeps showing an ability to read defenses, which i like. Against Washington he was reading coverages well. I've had the same concern as others that he hasn't been tested enough. I've read his demeanor is apparently incredible and he does not get rattled. He also answered a question about facing a lack of pressure, then mentioned how he went against Nick Bosa and co. all the time during practice. I'm still unsure if he would be my guy at 6.

I think the Giants are going to like Haskins and Jones the most.

I was like who the hell is that guy he's going to be a top five pick this year. Than they panned to him. Freshman from Houston,Tx. Blew my mind.

This video shows a different story. Good touch. Accurate. Pretty mobile. He gets it done with his arm. The only possible knock is he'll be 24.

In comment 14244128 tyrik13 said:

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In comment 14243888 Tim in JTown said: [quote] I could see a scenario where we trade OBJ, pick up some draft picks, and start building the team more around Barkley. Pick up a game changing DE in the first, go OL 2,3 or 4. If we go QB, I like Will Grier. [/quote Grier is a bum, benefited from a system designed to make QBs look good I.e see Geno Smith. We’re not trading OBJ so get off that wagon and Haskins is a different QB from anything Meyer ever put on the field. If he’s the pick so be it.

Link - ( New Window )

I’d rather take the guy taken with the next pick.