To start, trading OBJ (or wanting to trade him) should only happen if you think it's part of a long term solution to righting the ship. If your plans are short term, winning in 2019/2020 by all means keep him on the roster.
OBJ is expensive and has gotten hurt two years running. He is also mercurial and has shown he can be difficult to handle and required "speaking to." Would he be a new QBs best friend or worst enemy?
OBJ has trade value, a lot of it. He has shown he is a top tier player and competitor, I think there would be considerable competition for his services. OBJ would net a nice haul, minimum a 1st rd pick, but could he net more?
I also think its a slippery slope in that I dont think you can explore trading him and then NOT trade him. Once official word got out that he is being shopped its got to happen, so you'd have to properly assess his value.
If a team like the Jets or SF offered you a 2nd rd pick this year and a 1st next year, would you bite?
NO!
The time to trade him was prior to last year's draft or obviously prior to signing him to all that money.
Second, his trade value before signing the new contract wasn't what many fans felt it would be. The pricey contract included now in trading for him suggests his trade value could be even lower.
With Eli likely to return in '19, the big roster change figures to be OV and perhaps a few other defensive players who aren't worth their contract, imo.
Now, with contract in place, teams now know for certain whether or not their cap situation could handle such a transaction. I don’t believe the possibility of a trade is far less than last year, assuming, once again, the Giants are willing to part with him.
If Eli comes back, there is less need to keep OBJ because the team is going nowhere again. If a few things fall into place, they may notch 8-9 wins. They are not better than the Eagles or Cowboys. So under this, trade OBJ and try to maximize as much draft equity as possible...
1)he has shown that the broken ankle is not an issue
2)the acquiring team gets his recently paid signing bonus paid for
that said, it would be a bad move for the Giants
What did the Cowboys trade for Amari Cooper, who is an excellent WR, but he is not OBJ?
If Eli comes back, there is less need to keep OBJ because the team is going nowhere again. If a few things fall into place, they may notch 8-9 wins. They are not better than the Eagles or Cowboys. So under this, trade OBJ and try to maximize as much draft equity as possible...
So, a new, young, green QB means the Giants will go to the playoffs and Eli means they will not?
And two years from now, that new (2020 draft vs 2019), young, green QB will not need the OBJ security blanket?
NO!
To be fair, I think it's better than the 10 Eli Manning threads posted per day. I'm surprised this thread made it 6 follow up posts before someone found a way to mention Eli in a thread that had nothing to do with him.
In this case I get what the OP is saying. Long term and depending on the picks we would be compensated for I might consider it but that dead money hit is really hard to swallow. I don't think anyone would offer the picks I would need to see though. A high 1st this year and next year's 1st. Next year's 1st being more important to me than this years. Maybe this years' high 2nd rounder and next year's 1st rounder. Short term, hell no.
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Keep Dreaming
What did the Cowboys trade for Amari Cooper, who is an excellent WR, but he is not OBJ?
1 pick which Will be in the 20”s... Raider fans get to watch Cooper and Mack lead there team to the playoffs..
Lets model our organization behind the Raiders.. only team worse then the Giants
Yippee take all our good players ... we stink but at least we have draft picks and cap room. Keep preparing for a future that’ll never come
Then we can trade up in 2020 for a QB right... It’s that easy... Meanwhile teams picking at the top of the draft won’t need these QBs who BBI swears are so good... lol some of you people live in a fantasy land
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OBJ thread....
NO!
To be fair, I think it's better than the 10 Eli Manning threads posted per day. I'm surprised this thread made it 6 follow up posts before someone found a way to mention Eli in a thread that had nothing to do with him.
We just had one yesterday concerning the 49ers trade rumors was my point. And no neither daily thread(Eli or OBJ) is better than the other.
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In comment 14243825 GoBlue6599 said:
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Keep Dreaming
What did the Cowboys trade for Amari Cooper, who is an excellent WR, but he is not OBJ?
1 pick which Will be in the 20”s... Raider fans get to watch Cooper and Mack lead there team to the playoffs..
Lets model our organization behind the Raiders.. only team worse then the Giants
Yippee take all our good players ... we stink but at least we have draft picks and cap room. Keep preparing for a future that’ll never come
Then we can trade up in 2020 for a QB right... It’s that easy... Meanwhile teams picking at the top of the draft won’t need these QBs who BBI swears are so good... lol some of you people live in a fantasy land
WTH do the Raiders have to do with anything other than they traded Cooper for a 1st round pick?
If you are saying don't trade away our elites like the Raiders did, I agree.
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Keep Dreaming
What did the Cowboys trade for Amari Cooper, who is an excellent WR, but he is not OBJ?
Amari Cooper has a shred of a percent of Beckham's talent and resume to this point. And the Cowboys were blasted and mocked for overpaying.
Beckham's actual value is high enough that trades are unrealistic. It has to start at two first round picks, and not mid or low first round picks.
The argument could be made that by signing and then trading him, his value is more to a partner. They don't have to pay the signing bonus and they have him under contract for years. With no signing bonus on their cap, the risk is low as it amounts to a year-to-year contract.
Trading him before the big contract, then the new team gets the player and the burden of the contract.
When you get in to the accounting, what is the value of picks as it pertains to moneyball? Do you think Cleveland actually wanted Brock or did they want the pick that came with it? They ate the cap hit for Brock but received the high pick in return.
1)he has shown that the broken ankle is not an issue
2)the acquiring team gets his recently paid signing bonus paid for
that said, it would be a bad move for the Giants
HI think we have to stop to think that maybe Odell is not 100% of what he was before he broke his ankle?
Just on the eye test, he doesn't seem to have the same kind of explosion or change of direction ability. I mean, Eli isn't what he once was; but maybe it isn't all on him. One thing that Odell could always do is take a 7 yard slant to the house, but he hasn't shown the ability to be able to do that this season.
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In comment 14243831 section125 said:
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In comment 14243825 GoBlue6599 said:
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Keep Dreaming
What did the Cowboys trade for Amari Cooper, who is an excellent WR, but he is not OBJ?
1 pick which Will be in the 20”s... Raider fans get to watch Cooper and Mack lead there team to the playoffs..
Lets model our organization behind the Raiders.. only team worse then the Giants
Yippee take all our good players ... we stink but at least we have draft picks and cap room. Keep preparing for a future that’ll never come
Then we can trade up in 2020 for a QB right... It’s that easy... Meanwhile teams picking at the top of the draft won’t need these QBs who BBI swears are so good... lol some of you people live in a fantasy land
WTH do the Raiders have to do with anything other than they traded Cooper for a 1st round pick?
If you are saying don't trade away our elites like the Raiders did, I agree.
Yes that is what I’m saying.. we can have the best WR RB and TE in the NFL next season why trade that away for some unknown draft pick Why because a bunch of overweight 50 year old men don’t think OBJ is classy enough?
Obviously the PFT piece was click bait after Antonio brown tweeted at them.
If anyone thinks this is the off season where OBJ and AB both get traded and their respective teams get first rounders in return, they are crazy.
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1)he has shown that the broken ankle is not an issue
2)the acquiring team gets his recently paid signing bonus paid for
that said, it would be a bad move for the Giants
HI think we have to stop to think that maybe Odell is not 100% of what he was before he broke his ankle?
Just on the eye test, he doesn't seem to have the same kind of explosion or change of direction ability. I mean, Eli isn't what he once was; but maybe it isn't all on him. One thing that Odell could always do is take a 7 yard slant to the house, but he hasn't shown the ability to be able to do that this season.
With all that said he still had 1000 yards and 6 tds in 12 games.. not to shabby.
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In comment 14243845 GoBlue6599 said:
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In comment 14243831 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14243825 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:
Keep Dreaming
What did the Cowboys trade for Amari Cooper, who is an excellent WR, but he is not OBJ?
1 pick which Will be in the 20”s... Raider fans get to watch Cooper and Mack lead there team to the playoffs..
Lets model our organization behind the Raiders.. only team worse then the Giants
Yippee take all our good players ... we stink but at least we have draft picks and cap room. Keep preparing for a future that’ll never come
Then we can trade up in 2020 for a QB right... It’s that easy... Meanwhile teams picking at the top of the draft won’t need these QBs who BBI swears are so good... lol some of you people live in a fantasy land
WTH do the Raiders have to do with anything other than they traded Cooper for a 1st round pick?
If you are saying don't trade away our elites like the Raiders did, I agree.
Yes that is what I’m saying.. we can have the best WR RB and TE in the NFL next season why trade that away for some unknown draft pick Why because a bunch of overweight 50 year old men don’t think OBJ is classy enough?
Ah, the ageism argument. These old men have forgotten more about football than you will ever learn. Stay classy.
The Jets trading up to #3 in 2018 is a perfect case of this. We all got excited since we figured the Jets set the price. Instead, nobody wanted to compete with their offer for #2, and it prevented us from entertaining lower offers.
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I’d keep OBJ. He’d be the security blanket a young QB needs.
If Eli comes back, there is less need to keep OBJ because the team is going nowhere again. If a few things fall into place, they may notch 8-9 wins. They are not better than the Eagles or Cowboys. So under this, trade OBJ and try to maximize as much draft equity as possible...
So, a new, young, green QB means the Giants will go to the playoffs and Eli means they will not?
And two years from now, that new (2020 draft vs 2019), young, green QB will not need the OBJ security blanket?
I didn’t say that, or mean to imply that.
The point is getting the post-Manning era started. And keeping an asset for the development of the next gen QB.
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We just had one yesterday concerning the 49ers trade rumors was my point. And no neither daily thread(Eli or OBJ) is better than the other.
No you are right. Don't get me wrong there. I guess I've accepted it at this point even though the Eli ones have gotten ridiculous. We can't get everyone to do a search before they post new threads. Even then, sometimes the previous thread titles are so bad that you can't find the similar thread in a search anyway.
Now I'm committing another popular faux pas by talking about something other than the subject of the thread. LOL!
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1)he has shown that the broken ankle is not an issue
2)the acquiring team gets his recently paid signing bonus paid for
that said, it would be a bad move for the Giants
HI think we have to stop to think that maybe Odell is not 100% of what he was before he broke his ankle?
Just on the eye test, he doesn't seem to have the same kind of explosion or change of direction ability. I mean, Eli isn't what he once was; but maybe it isn't all on him. One thing that Odell could always do is take a 7 yard slant to the house, but he hasn't shown the ability to be able to do that this season.
I can only think on 1 instance where he was able to catch the ball cleanly and didn't have a soft zone on top to prevent exactly that.
you know what..
we should trade Barkley right now too. his value will never be higher and he is under contract for the next 4 years on the cheap.. imagine how much we could get for him..
see how stupid that sounds..
you know what..
we should trade Barkley right now too. his value will never be higher and he is under contract for the next 4 years on the cheap.. imagine how much we could get for him..
see how stupid that sounds..
You are trying to make a correlation to the two players. Barkley has no injury history. Has already set franchise records in his rookie year. Has not been called out by the owner. Has not had to be talked to by the owner regarding his actions. Has never been suspended and fined (Google how much OBJ has been fined what is known publicly).
It's crazy how much people overvalue draft picks over known commodities here. Odell is a special player -- the kind you are HOPING to select (once a decade, maybe) in the draft. And we can afford him, we're fine with the ever-increasing cap.
The idea is to win football games, not get as many picks as you can.
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so all these stupid threads can just stop...
you know what..
we should trade Barkley right now too. his value will never be higher and he is under contract for the next 4 years on the cheap.. imagine how much we could get for him..
see how stupid that sounds..
You are trying to make a correlation to the two players. Barkley has no injury history. Has already set franchise records in his rookie year. Has not been called out by the owner. Has not had to be talked to by the owner regarding his actions. Has never been suspended and fined (Google how much OBJ has been fined what is known publicly).
Did we Trade Lawrence Taylor??? NO...
OK...
There are probably other ways of measuring any perception of decline than putting a quota on the number of times he puts the offense on his back and makes a game-saving play out of nothing. That may not be the best way to measure whether he's the same player.
The Giants hold all the leverage here and can see if somebody will be as stupid as Dallas to offer a ridiculous return.
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Why re-sign him if you are just going to then trade him? Do you like dead money hitting the cap?
The argument could be made that by signing and then trading him, his value is more to a partner. They don't have to pay the signing bonus and they have him under contract for years. With no signing bonus on their cap, the risk is low as it amounts to a year-to-year contract.
Trading him before the big contract, then the new team gets the player and the burden of the contract.
When you get in to the accounting, what is the value of picks as it pertains to moneyball? Do you think Cleveland actually wanted Brock or did they want the pick that came with it? They ate the cap hit for Brock but received the high pick in return.
Yea, I see what you are saying.
I guess the same argument can be made than that he is more attractive to keep - we've paid the bonus etc...
It seems like unless he's gone awol like AB in Pitt, then the best possible return is a pick that could yield a player like OBJ... not a strong argument to trade him imo.
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In comment 14243815 GiantsRage2007 said:
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Why re-sign him if you are just going to then trade him? Do you like dead money hitting the cap?
The argument could be made that by signing and then trading him, his value is more to a partner. They don't have to pay the signing bonus and they have him under contract for years. With no signing bonus on their cap, the risk is low as it amounts to a year-to-year contract.
Trading him before the big contract, then the new team gets the player and the burden of the contract.
When you get in to the accounting, what is the value of picks as it pertains to moneyball? Do you think Cleveland actually wanted Brock or did they want the pick that came with it? They ate the cap hit for Brock but received the high pick in return.
Yea, I see what you are saying.
I guess the same argument can be made than that he is more attractive to keep - we've paid the bonus etc...
It seems like unless he's gone awol like AB in Pitt, then the best possible return is a pick that could yield a player like OBJ... not a strong argument to trade him imo.
Plus you basically have to add $16 mil to the rookie contract if you are only getting one pick in return, so its not like the rookie will be dirt cheap.
Top edge rusher and Giants like Haskins at 6!
Giants have won nothing with O’Dell, why some of you mock the idea of trading a wide receiver, no matter how good, to improve the team is short sighted
This is Barkley s team going forward, also maybe other weapons like Ingram get a chance to shine
For all his talent, Giants offense without him last 4 games, except for Titans, was still pretty good
Argument could be made elements were a big factor in that game
Top edge rusher and Giants like Haskins at 6!
Giants have won nothing with O’Dell, why some of you mock the idea of trading a wide receiver, no matter how good, to improve the team is short sighted
This is Barkley s team going forward, also maybe other weapons like Ingram get a chance to shine
For all his talent, Giants offense without him last 4 games, except for Titans, was still pretty good
Argument could be made elements were a big factor in that game
We mock it because it’s a fantasy, the 49ers are going to Offer the #2 pick in the draft... lol why even discuss such fallacy?
If Eli comes back, there is less need to keep OBJ because the team is going nowhere again. If a few things fall into place, they may notch 8-9 wins. They are not better than the Eagles or Cowboys. So under this, trade OBJ and try to maximize as much draft equity as possible...
Great Player----but Certainly NOT The "Security Blanket Type"!!!!
I think the 49ers is a possibility.
Swap 1s this year. Giants get 49ers 1 next year. And 49ers 2 either this year or next. Preferably this year, of course. If the 49ers won't give a 2, then the Giants have to get their 3 this year.
So the worst deal with the 49ers would be:
Giants send Beckham and Round 1 #6 pick to 49ers
Giants receive
Round 1 #2 pick
Round 3 #2 pick (I think it is the second pick of the round)
2020 Round 1
But I really don't like that 3rd round pick. I want the second pick of the second round.
This puts the Giants into the all-too-familiar two hole in this years draft. There's your QB selection. Or a possible trade down, the goal being to get more quality draft selections.
I don't think it's a horrible deal, for both teams.
All assuming the cap numbers work, of course.
I think the 49ers is a possibility.
Swap 1s this year. Giants get 49ers 1 next year. And 49ers 2 either this year or next. Preferably this year, of course. If the 49ers won't give a 2, then the Giants have to get their 3 this year.
So the worst deal with the 49ers would be:
Giants send Beckham and Round 1 #6 pick to 49ers
Giants receive
Round 1 #2 pick
Round 3 #2 pick (I think it is the second pick of the round)
2020 Round 1
But I really don't like that 3rd round pick. I want the second pick of the second round.
This puts the Giants into the all-too-familiar two hole in this years draft. There's your QB selection. Or a possible trade down, the goal being to get more quality draft selections.
I don't think it's a horrible deal, for both teams.
All assuming the cap numbers work, of course.
Complete fantasy...Wake me up when the 9ers consider that
People don't understand the cap implications. It makes no sense to trade Beckham right now.
Not only does it not make sense from a cap perspective, it makes even less sense because...
1. He is coming off an injury and we'd be selling low - we won't get fair value
2. It creates another very large roster hole - we will probably need to use what we get in return to plug it.
NYG aren't going to deal Beckham now.