but then in hindsight, it becomes apparent that he dropped plenty of breadcrumbs. Whatever he says I'm sure it'll be analyzed to death and interpreted in a multitude of ways both by the media and here on bbi.
Gettleman on the Eli Manning question: "We will do what's in the best interests of the New York Giants. We're trying to build sustained success. That takes brutal honesty and some tough decisions."
Gettleman on the Eli Manning question: "We will do what's in the best interests of the New York Giants. We're trying to build sustained success. That takes brutal honesty and some tough decisions."
Well, that's a not committal answer.
I wonder if they hope that Eli retires and makes the decision easy for them.
Gettleman on the Eli Manning question: "We will do what's in the best interests of the New York Giants. We're trying to build sustained success. That takes brutal honesty and some tough decisions."
Last comment I heard him make was about it being a mistake to make emotional decisions (was asked about JJ and OV and how they performed, where he inherited their big contracts).
Also, don't advertise you are starting at 11:30 and instead begin a few minutes early.
like Eli wants to come back but cited the issues on the OL and the Offense in general to Eli. Which Eli countered with it picked up in the 2nd 1/2 after the OL got a tab bit better. To which Dave G said it needs to be better and that costs .... which leads into the paycut/restructure convo ... Eli will say he does not warrant a straight paycut and Dave G will say if you want better OL then work with me ... sounds like a very friendly team restructure happens vs a paycut (my choice and preference). Both sides has a little leverage and it is in both parties interest to meet in the middle for minimize any transitional "pains".
seems like it was not a fun conversation they had...here's hoping 10 makes it back to NYG for one more shot.
Yea it was candid but the he took me to the low post and won ... is telling in that Eli made some points but question is did his points resonate with Eli? If so where is the middle ground they can reach $$$ wise?
that is great for the giants as a franchise.
that means they will have the same candid convo with OV, and assess Collins value properly.
With Eli it means he is either back at a value that is workable for the cap and the team and his value.... or he is not. Which at this stage is the right thing.
but it is time for him to go. The Giants can gain 50% of the cap room they have now if he retires this year. No, Manning is not the only reason they were terrible, but there are holes all over this roster (especially on defense) and young talent is not cheap.
None of the teams drafting in front of them are desperate for a QB, except maybe for Tampa Bay. It's time to build this team the way most successful teams are: with a good, cheap rookie QB, which allows you to spend a ton of resources elsewhere.
Why does it feel like the Giants are always behind the curve
and let the guys ask the questions we deserve to have answered. Should've put Gettleman up for a bye week presser. Other teams have their GM's answer questions during the year. Not their fault they've had to wait a whole season to ask him anything.
and let the guys ask the questions we deserve to have answered. Should've put Gettleman up for a bye week presser. Other teams have their GM's answer questions during the year. Not their fault they've had to wait a whole season to ask him anything.
Agree, I guess he didn't want to be late for lunch.
ahh...so you think the Ravens would trade Jackson because people "stupid fans" have doubt? The guy won three games without throwing a TD pass. Once he figures out the offense and how to play in an NFL system, he is going to be as dangerous as Watson.
playing that well before he got hurt? I didn't notice but DG thinks so.
His unknown potential "upside" is key to our future because IMHO, we definitely need a new, upgrade, OC, RG and RT. The only way this changes is if we sign Hilapion, Brown and Wheeler are all under contract AND we KNOW (based on practice, gamefilm, etc.,) that they can improve enough to be effective.
I'm just seeing a lot of question marks due to the number of holes we have???
was actually better quality than is usual. Typically, you need the transcript to understand the questions. This time, the transcript is needed to fill in the gaps.
RE: RE: Gotta get in on the ground floor of Lamar Jackson
ahh...so you think the Ravens would trade Jackson because people "stupid fans" have doubt? The guy won three games without throwing a TD pass. Once he figures out the offense and how to play in an NFL system, he is going to be as dangerous as Watson.
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
playing that well before he got hurt? I didn't notice but DG thinks so.
He graded out very well in pass blocking according to PFF. Best on the line at that point before he got hurt and had he done it over a full season would've been their #3 pass blocking C in the league. Graded him about average to below average as a run blocker.
mean absolutely nothing, but when you put two and two together of Archie's statement on Eli "But if he comes back, the Giants have got to win. They can't go through another season like this." and the fact that Gettleman said Eli asked for this meeting and his need to be bluntly honest you have to imagine Eli requested a meeting with Gettleman to truly gauge where the feeling in the room is in regards to the Giants chances next year. What was said, no one knows, but definitely would feel like this was a feeling out meeting on Manning's behalf as to whether or not he wants to go at it for another year with this team.
I would like to know what his answer was on OV and JJ question
I can't stand the Ravens but I think it's because of their fan-base. When the team is good, everyone is die-hard and trash-talking like idiots (even to me, whose team has zero rivalry with them.) When the team is mediocre or bad, it's like they don't exist. I understand why the Colts left. I know many people who suddenly became Eagles' fans last year and claimed to have "always rooted for the Eagles when Baltimore had no team." And there's also the unquestioned support of Ray Lewis. Some teams have asshole fans, these guys are just pathetic.
ahh...so you think the Ravens would trade Jackson because people "stupid fans" have doubt? The guy won three games without throwing a TD pass. Once he figures out the offense and how to play in an NFL system, he is going to be as dangerous as Watson.
Watson is a better passer than Jackson. I think that once teams have enough film on Jackson they will figure out ways to stop him and keep him in the pocket and he will struggle. That or he will suffer a serious knee injury.
playing that well before he got hurt? I didn't notice but DG thinks so.
Looking back, and not being a film junkie, Halapio may have been the best lineman before he got hurt. The LT was new, playing hurt and trying to help the LG. The LG was raw and learning. The C was trying to help the RG and learning himself. The RG somehow fooled everyone but was trying to help out the overmatched RT.
If the Giants have even average production from the center position, and only have to address RG and RT, they are in much better shape than last year.
RE: RE: RE: Gotta get in on the ground floor of Lamar Jackson
like Eli wants to come back but cited the issues on the OL and the Offense in general to Eli. Which Eli countered with it picked up in the 2nd 1/2 after the OL got a tab bit better. To which Dave G said it needs to be better and that costs .... which leads into the paycut/restructure convo ... Eli will say he does not warrant a straight paycut and Dave G will say if you want better OL then work with me ... sounds like a very friendly team restructure happens vs a paycut (my choice and preference). Both sides has a little leverage and it is in both parties interest to meet in the middle for minimize any transitional "pains".
I agree with this 100%.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Gotta get in on the ground floor of Lamar Jackson
be stunned if Gettleman gave Eli the Steve Smith ultimatum and treatment.
Exactly. Eli wants to stay and play here. He hasn't won no matter how much we love him and how much the team around him has roster issues. So a pay cut affords flexibility allowing Eli to stick and compete. Refusal to do so, which if I'm Eli I probably would just walk instead, would likely lead to his release.
Eli can still play - He just isn't a game changer. Something should change here.
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
how was he treated?
It really should be it's own topic. That's not what this thread is for.
Not really sure what you're getting at, but maybe a lot of teams downgraded him because he's a run first QB with a slight frame and the history of run first QBs isn't very long. Vick played 16 games once in his career and only made the postseason 4 times. Newton's been much healthier and more successful, but he's a physical anomaly at 6-5, 245 lbs and may be starting to show some wear and tear at only 29.
When part of the argument for taking a QB over other players is due to their longevity, you have to knock Jackson relative to the other QBs too. And with QB being the most important position on the field, durability and stability at the position is critical. Teams can't afford to have their QB missing 3-4-5 games a season with injuries.
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
how was he treated?
It really should be it's own topic. That's not what this thread is for.
Not really sure what you're getting at, but maybe a lot of teams downgraded him because he's a run first QB with a slight frame and the history of run first QBs isn't very long. Vick played 16 games once in his career and only made the postseason 4 times. Newton's been much healthier and more successful, but he's a physical anomaly at 6-5, 245 lbs and may be starting to show some wear and tear at only 29.
When part of the argument for taking a QB over other players is due to their longevity, you have to knock Jackson relative to the other QBs too. And with QB being the most important position on the field, durability and stability at the position is critical. Teams can't afford to have their QB missing 3-4-5 games a season with injuries.
And yet no one would balk at paying A Rodgers. While hes not run first, he is a mobile QB and nicked up often due to his mobility.
KC because I had money on them to win the AFC West, and Baltimore because I'm fascinated by the offense they are running. I'm a big Jackson believer, but more than that I like seeing a team fully commit to having an offense run around the mobile QB. Since Jackson took over they have run 45 times for 230 yards per game (5 yards per carry). They've won the TOP battle in all 7 games, and are 6-1 over that stretch with the 1 loss being the Mahomes OT insanity game in KC.
Yeah it's only 7 games, but they're showing that there's another way to play offense in the NFL. It's a way that should interest us given the quality of our RB and the fact we're probably looking at a new QB soon.
He is non-committal to Eli, is because he doesn't want to tip off what he's going to do with the #6 overall pick. Duh.
C'mon guys, think.
Exactly..
This makes zero sense. One, FA happens prior to the draft. Two, Eli is owed a 5 million dollar roster bonus at the start of the new league year. Any decision on Eli is going to be made well in advance of the draft. And Eli is not stopping this team from drafting a QB if that player is wanted by this organization.
if the next conversation between DG, and Eli and his agent,
centers around taking a pay cut to stay here.
If Gettleman was supposedly 'blunt' when talking with Eli,
then the pay cut, wouldn't be a surprise at all in the future conversation(s).
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Gotta get in on the ground floor of Lamar Jackson
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
how was he treated?
It really should be it's own topic. That's not what this thread is for.
Not really sure what you're getting at, but maybe a lot of teams downgraded him because he's a run first QB with a slight frame and the history of run first QBs isn't very long. Vick played 16 games once in his career and only made the postseason 4 times. Newton's been much healthier and more successful, but he's a physical anomaly at 6-5, 245 lbs and may be starting to show some wear and tear at only 29.
When part of the argument for taking a QB over other players is due to their longevity, you have to knock Jackson relative to the other QBs too. And with QB being the most important position on the field, durability and stability at the position is critical. Teams can't afford to have their QB missing 3-4-5 games a season with injuries.
We're really millering a thread for a different topic though. I'm fine having the conversation, but this isn't a thread about Lamar Jackson. It just happened to be sidetracked out of a comment made about the Ravens team website.
and 15 twice (one was 2011 when he sat the final game of regular season). He's only missed time in 2013 and 2017 due to major injuries. He's also consistently made the postseason (basically only missed them his first season starting and this year).
If there was a running QB with any where close to that type of track record, they would get paid too.
Halapio isn't a young project, the Giants are his 7th organization since 2014 including two separate stints in the FXFL.
He may have been playing well and may continue to play well - nothing I will post is a commentary on that at all, just saying he's 28 years old before training camp next year and has 8 career NFL starts (all with the Giants though he was on practice squads for the Patriots (twice), Broncos, and Cardinals (plus the aforementioned FXFL).
Give me a pocket passer all day every day. That's the only thing that works in the NFL.
RE: Halapio. Beyond the fact he's proven to be a journeyman at best, a dude that big recovering from a lower leg injury is tough. What are the odds he's as good as he was last year? Another year older with a bad wheel? That was a major injury.
be stunned if Gettleman gave Eli the Steve Smith ultimatum and treatment.
I would be. I don't think Mara would get behind that.
I think it's more likely they try and restructure his deal so he gets all his money than it is for them to give him a take it or leave it ultimatum.
I know he's due a lot next year and eats a chunk of the cap but I think they find a way for him to get all the money due him.
I wouldn't be stunned at all. It is the way DG has handled a lot of veterans in his career. steve Smith, DeAngelo Williams, Jon Beason, Jordan Gross.
When he broached the topic for Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen he was shown the door.
No doubt DG has the stones to do it but I think Eli is on a higher level than those vets. At least when it comes to what he's not only done for the Giants franchise, but their fans and DG himself.
I know those guys were important to Carolina's history but they didn't accomplish what Eli has and I just feel the Giants wouldn't do him that way.
Could it happen? Sure, but I'd be surprised if it went down that way. I think it's much more likely they either bring him back, restructure so he gets his money somehow, or convince him to retire because they don't want his career here to end with them cutting him.
RE: RE: Nothing would surprise me in regards to the QB....
Halapio isn't a young project, the Giants are his 7th organization since 2014 including two separate stints in the FXFL.
He may have been playing well and may continue to play well - nothing I will post is a commentary on that at all, just saying he's 28 years old before training camp next year and has 8 career NFL starts (all with the Giants though he was on practice squads for the Patriots (twice), Broncos, and Cardinals (plus the aforementioned FXFL).
disagree that a connection can influence decisions. Heck, it was the turning point for DG in Carolina when he tried to look at options for two players the owner had a connection to:
Quote:
It does matter. You see how fans stay so emotionally connected to players. Imagine if you worked with the guy directly.
The difference is that there were a lot of comments made about DG's lack of emotion and sentimentality when making moves in Carolina. Steve Smith said he was a cold-blooded, heartless person. DeAngelo Williams said he deserved better from Gettleman and the Panthers.
Center - Don't forget that the Giants signed UDRFA
OC Evan Brown and kept him on the 53 Man ROSTER all year. They must really see something in this kid since they didn't want to risk losing him by placing him on the practice squad.
RE: RE: RE: Nothing would surprise me in regards to the QB....
My personal hope is that Eli leaves NY, and plays for another team a whole year, or retires.
I personally can't bear this relationship any longer. Eli getting ****ed on, and he has to keep taking this as a professional. It's fine for a time, maybe more than a time, but it's gone too far.
The Giants can figure out how to be professionals on their own at this point.
RE: RE: RE: Gotta get in on the ground floor of Lamar Jackson
ahh...so you think the Ravens would trade Jackson because people "stupid fans" have doubt? The guy won three games without throwing a TD pass. Once he figures out the offense and how to play in an NFL system, he is going to be as dangerous as Watson.
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
This is more an indictment of the draft class than an endorsement of Jackson, but I said I thought he could end up being the best of the bunch. He was constantly left out of the QB talk; we only heard about the big 4. I still think this may end up being true, but again it is more a lack of faith in Rosen or Allen, thinking Darnold is overrated, and thinking Mayfield (I always thought the best QB of the bunch) is a problem waiting to happen (Manziel-lite).
It could also be a bad sign he wasn't ready to play late in the year when Pulley went down, although Shurmur seems like a "players coach" meaning he'd give the vet (Greco) the nod.
I still think they'll re-sign Brown, buy a RT in free agency and draft a C. But we'll see.
That's a lot of resources when DG is clearly looking to infuse the D.
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
if Eli wanted to talk to Gettleman right away Monday, it was to discuss where he was at and to get an idea on where the Giants were at before moving forward and everybody making decisions in the offseason.
I think Eli would legitimately consider retiring and maybe even mentioned it to Gettleman to ask for a little time with family before going one way or the other.
I suspect Eli wanted to get an idea where Giants are at for next year and how they evaluate him.
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
Sounds about right. Sometimes you need to light $20m on fire and start subpar players to fix team culture.
"My contract is for 23 mil next year that's what I expect." What does Gettleman do?
Whatever he does, it won't be without running it by the Maras first.
See what Fats wrote about his brutally honest conversations and decisions with a few of the Panthers.
I see some kind of face saving voidable extension that's effectively a pay cut and salary cap lowering hit for 2019, allowing the Giants to add some more veteran OL and D help. But it wouldn't be my first bad prediction if not.
He will not pull any punches. It appears that he makes decisions that look to be irrational to some: however, he makes them, as he says based on fluidity. With that said, everyone knows that Eli is not worth what he is being paid, and I believe Gettleman and Eli had the conversation that in order for Eli to have a shot at winning a SB, the team needs better players than just rookies. Eli knows this. How realistic is it for Eli to win another SB, given the state of the team? Probably not. I don't know. Right tackle needs to be addressed, Brown would need to be resigned, and the defense needs an ER or ERs, FS, CB and maybe another LB. It would be difficult to make the Giants a SB contender next year, and Eli will be 39. Eli also knows that his heir apparent needs to be considered very soon. I believe both DG and Eli are being pragmatic about the situation and I would not be surprised if Eli retires. Archie speaking out gives me the feeling that this maybe the case.
It's also quite possible that thy don't like any of the top QBs
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
but i didn't realize that omameh was.. guess he couldn't've been that great for the culture if they dumped him mid-season.
Or he was but barkley's maturity and Stewart's locker room presence offset his "intangible" value coupled with a pressing need to try something on the OL .. ie Brown and Wheeler.
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
Very interesting.
RE: RE: RE: Between what he's said today/Eli not talking to the press Monday
seems like it was not a fun conversation they had...here's hoping 10 makes it back to NYG for one more shot.
no heres hoping he retires so the Giants win again
The TEAM wins and loses. Not 1 player.
Eli is the starting QB in 2019 with a better OL and better Defense.
1) Giants scored the most points in NFC East.
2) Giants allowed the most points in the NFC East.
Why is this "giants scored the most in NFC East" being throwing around as its the greatest accomplishment or being a prolific offense ala LA Rams etc etc? Bottomline, end result, last place in division. Can blame defense and losing close games..but this offense many of times than not failed nor didnt close out games.
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
Very interesting.
That is exactly what I was saying about Stewart when we signed him. Everyone was pointing out whether the guy could be a productive runner and I said he is not here to run the ball.
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
Very interesting.
That is exactly what I was saying about Stewart when we signed him. Everyone was pointing out whether the guy could be a productive runner and I said he is not here to run the ball.
People don't get it.
People got it at the time. They just disagreed that it's worth it, especially in the case of Barkley, who is super coachable and isn't a character concern.
but i didn't realize that omameh was.. guess he couldn't've been that great for the culture if they dumped him mid-season.
Makes sense when you think about the biggest culture culprits last year (outside of the irredeemable Apple) were their starting offensive tackles. Heck, 4/5 of their line look like they might have been let go for more than performance (or lack thereof).
but I think we can all agree the culture and the atmosphere surrounding the team is tons better now than at this time last year. I'm anxious to see what this off season brings. Reading the tea leaves with respect to Manning, I don't think Getts wants to pay Eli north of 20 million for this year. He likes and respects Eli and still thinks he can play, but he will make the tough decisions in the team's best interest. Can't ask for anything more from a GM.
How do you not come away feeling cautiously optimistic after that?
For one thing it's very clear that the locker room was as big if not a bigger problem then we imagined. They fixed that in one season, and it eroded over multiple seasons.
The definition of insanity line is true to how Gettleman operates. If it's not working he changes it. Look at the OL.
I agree the team is moving in the right direction.
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
Very interesting.
That is exactly what I was saying about Stewart when we signed him. Everyone was pointing out whether the guy could be a productive runner and I said he is not here to run the ball.
People don't get it.
Count me as someone who doesn't get it, unless the effectiveness of these kinds of moves is somehow considered to be self-evident and backed by precedent.
Was an awful experience, and one outcome of that is I think Eli never has or will hold the team and how much he cherishes playing for it in the same light he had previously.
It's something you can't walk back from. Ever. And I think Eli proved he can still play and that's enough.
He's done enough. 2 time SB winner. 2 time SB MVP. We were lucky to have him.
in some capacity for a while. Maybe as mentor a for the new QB possibly. He could follow Peyton's example but think not. The $$$ will be worked out. The guy is a football Mench, loves the the game and the Giants like DG said. MO.
People got it at the time. They just disagreed that it's worth it, especially in the case of Barkley, who is super coachable and isn't a character concern.
No... people did not get it. Plus, nobody knew that Barkley was was going to be as much of a leader as he is a talented RB. NOBODY knew that.
This locker room sucked last year and bringing in Stewart was not just for Barkley. We needed more veterans in the locker room who knew how to be a professional.
If you ever get to spend any time on a team at a high level, you will understand that the things that happen off of the field are just as important as what you see on TV during the 60 minutes. The Giants teams that won the last two Superbowls should be a prime example. We were not the most talented team in both instances. It was the leadership and the intangibles that truly were the difference.
in some capacity for a while. Maybe as mentor a for the new QB possibly. He could follow Peyton's example but think not. The $$$ will be worked out. The guy is a football Mench, loves the the game and the Giants like DG said. MO.
please no mentor role. Eli said he is not interested in it and as long as he is with the team, it is very difficult for a young QB to develop, IMO.
RE: How do you not come away feeling cautiously optimistic after that?
For one thing it's very clear that the locker room was as big if not a bigger problem then we imagined. They fixed that in one season, and it eroded over multiple seasons.
The definition of insanity line is true to how Gettleman operates. If it's not working he changes it. Look at the OL.
I agree the team is moving in the right direction.
Now go draft Josh Allen from Kentucky at #6.
Probably a good chance Allen isn't there at 6, then who??
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
"My contract is for 23 mil next year that's what I expect." What does Gettleman do?
Likely pull out his contract and show him that he is indeed not going to make $23M in 2019 and probably refer him to his agent and lawyer to review in more detail.
Gettleman on the Eli Manning question: "We will do what's in the best interests of the New York Giants. We're trying to build sustained success. That takes brutal honesty and some tough decisions."
and is on the board at 6...I'd be somewhat shocked if Giants passed again. Local kid, hard working, good background, and has really looked great in just 14 career starts. If he aces the combine and interviews which I'm sure he will, he'll be the top QB prospect by a good margin.
Neither Gettleman nor Shurmur can seem to pass on any opportunity to point out that the 2017 team went 3-13 and had a bad culture.
That just doesn't seem like good leadership to me.
Saying they want to change the culture is not good leadership? What does that even mean? Plenty of people say it all the time, coaches, GMs, and owners.
RE: I am biased against watching horrible football
had previously handled player relationships. I had a negative reaction and didn't like him at all.
Then I watched his first press conference. And loved the guy. And I just watched the tape of today's press conference. And I still love the guy - even more.
I think he is very straight forward. He says what he can and imo only holds back if answering would hurt the team in some way (negotiations; player relationship; draft or game strategy; etc). Otherwise, I think he is one of the most open and down to earth guys I've ever listened to. A breath of fresh air.
Looking back 30 years from now, he may not in hindsight end up being the greatest GM of all time. But I can't think of anyone else I would rather have as GM of the NY Giants for the foreseeable future.
After a season as poor as this one that was rife with on field stupidity from both the coaches and players, it rings pretty hollow to hear them knock the previous regime.
There's a lot of deflection from the 5-11 record. Not just that, but they are talking about the second half of the year like it was a success. 4-4, having lost the last 3 of the season...low bar, there.
Terps - you didn't pass on an opportunity to tell the board what you thought of the terrible locker room culture here last year and made quite a big deal about it.
Now that it appears to be corrected, and the GM and coach have made note of that, it's an issue?
It doesn't seem like there's anything that can be done that you won't find a way to complain about. Literally every appearance you make here is complaining or criticizing on a daily basis.
I get it, the team sucks, we should all be incensed, etc... but it just seems like it doesn't matter what is said or done. You'll find a way to disagree with it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Found this comment interesting
People got it at the time. They just disagreed that it's worth it, especially in the case of Barkley, who is super coachable and isn't a character concern.
No... people did not get it. Plus, nobody knew that Barkley was was going to be as much of a leader as he is a talented RB. NOBODY knew that.
This locker room sucked last year and bringing in Stewart was not just for Barkley. We needed more veterans in the locker room who knew how to be a professional.
If you ever get to spend any time on a team at a high level, you will understand that the things that happen off of the field are just as important as what you see on TV during the 60 minutes. The Giants teams that won the last two Superbowls should be a prime example. We were not the most talented team in both instances. It was the leadership and the intangibles that truly were the difference.
One of those super bowl teams went out and partied the night before the game. One of those super bowl teams predicted a win, creating the dreaded "bulletin board material".
RE: I am biased against watching horrible football
That's what the Giants played this year. Though you wouldn't know it listening to them. They can't talk enough about the progress made.
f
Maybe it's as simple as DG preferring to look at and build on the positives than dwelling on the negatives. At least publicly.
I'm sure he's well aware of the team's deficiencies but isn't going to air them in his pressers or on the radio. He's trying to change the culture and build a better one. Pointing out the good things accomplished this year IMO adds to that.
Players should never be signed if their play is in question - so I certainly think that was a poor strategy to burn cap dollars in the name of leadership. We can't be operating that way.
That said - what was going on in this locker room a year ago compared to now are very different and I think it's obvious.
Changing the culture here was a priority for this regime, and I think they're off to a good start as far as results go, but we can't be signing players for their leadership if they can't help the team on the field.
If they CAN help on the field, obviously high-character guys are great to have.
I'm not responsible for the 5-11 season. Gettleman and Shurmur are.
If I've done my job poorly, I don't tell my bosses "yeah but the guy before me did an even worse job".
I watched the games, and this was a team that played poorly, was poorly prepared, was poorly coached on gameday, and produced a poor season. What I'm hearing from the guys responsible is excuses and finger pointing at the previous regime.
As I type this Shurmur just brought up 3-13 again to Francesa.
They're trying to speak to the fans like you who are still annoyed to show how bad things were before and that as much as every coach and GM want to turn things around overnight, it's not always feasible.
They're trying to point out where the team got better - and I think it's being obtuse to completely deny that the team improved at all. The numbers are right there. The offensive production was better this year than it was last year. We can point that out and say we still need to get better - which is what they're doing.
I heard the coach say we need to get better defensively, I heard the coach say we want to continue building the offensive line... that he thought Will Hernandez was light years better later in the year than he was earlier. I heard the GM be very non-committal regarding the QB - telling me he's not content to just roll Eli back out there without exploring alternatives.
The team wasn't uniformly shitty all year. Everyone from analysts, to players, to fans, to the coach himself felt like they saw a few positives on the offensive side of the ball and seemed to think we started moving in a better direction.
We can think that and still believe the team is missing pieces and needs to improve.
on this one. If progress is made, it should be noted. Rome wasn't built in a day and I am very skeptical of this regime, but the good has to be noted as well as the bad. In the positive column, the team played much better offensively in the second half of the season than it did at any point last season or the first eight games of this year. That is a fact. And, in my opinion, the last eight games were more fun to watch than at any point in the last 5 years including 2016. I also think we had a five win season without all the chaos that was in the locker room last year, which also should be noted. Culture matters. Do I think these guys will ultimately be successful in turning this franchise into one with sustained success? As I said, I am skeptical, but there were some positives this season in an overall disappointing season and because the positives were at the end of they year, they are certainly allowed some time to build on that. I am not sure what more people want Gettleman to say?
Why can Matt Nagy install a new offense & go 12-4 in year 1?
You'd think Gettleman and Shurmur have been charged with an impossible task.
Does Shurmur need more than one year to learn game management? Does he need more than a year to realize that if your pass protection sucks, and your pass rush sucks, you shouldn't throw the ball 200 times more than you run it?
We've seen what it looks like when a talent deficient team is well coached. That's not what happened this year. Go back and read the game threads. Read Sy's game summaries. It's all there.
RE: Why can Matt Nagy install a new offense & go 12-4 in year 1?
Better talent on their roster for one thing and trading for one of the best Defensive players in the game no doubt helped. I'm sure getting Mack lifted that team more than just on the field.
RE: RE: Why can Matt Nagy install a new offense & go 12-4 in year 1?
Better talent on their roster for one thing and trading for one of the best Defensive players in the game no doubt helped. I'm sure getting Mack lifted that team more than just on the field.
All good points. To me, the Bears are still a defensive first team. They've got talent on offense, and the best still might be coming, but right now Nagy's offense is really a lot of window dressing.
.....he doesn't care that the Giants have only made the playoffs once since 2012.
He's interested in building the team the way he thinks is best, and if that's going to take a few years, so be it. He can't concern himself about what happened before he arrived. We all bitch about what has happened since SB 46 but that's not relevant to DG's process IMO.
And yes, he's trying to win every year but it's obvious the team has needs and he's going to try and fill them the best way he can.
RE: Why can Matt Nagy install a new offense & go 12-4 in year 1?
They also had a 3 win season the year before we did.
They followed it up with a 5 win season... like we did.
Now they're a 12 win team and division champions.
They started this process earlier than we did. That's why. They also made a move for an elite defensive player who is head and shoulders better than anyone we have here. Akeim Hicks is a monster.
The Bears had the top scoring defense in the league. Again, you guys are focusing on the wrong side of the ball and making it all about the QB and his experience level. It's the same thing with the Baltimore Ravens. Know why they're winning with Lamar Jackson? They have a great defense. This does not work with the Giants' defense... trust me.
Bringing up the Bears should, if anything, show you guys that you don't go from losing 13 games to winning 13 games in one offseason. A 5-win season like this was an inevitable stepping stone for the Giants whether people want to accept that or not.
The excuses are already being built in for when they go 7-9 in 2019
If you can go that far back for Chicago and call that part of their process, can we go that far back for us too? Because if you do, this was the second worst season we've had since 2003. The terrible seasons we had at the end of Coughlin's tenure...those still didn't get as bad as this one.
It's not a linear thing. You have to control for the fact that this league is set up to prop up bad teams and knock down good teams. There are rebuilding teams that have winning records. Go look at Seattle for an example of that.
If you start 1-7 and end up 5-11, and you didn't have some catastrophic injury or injuries...in today's NFL, you're a really bad team.
Just because we won 2 more games than the explosion year of 2017 doesn't mean we did well. More importantly it doesn't mean we're on the right track.
I still have absolutely no idea what you expected to see this year. You knew this roster was in shambles. Everyone did. None of that was a secret.
We turned over a huge portion of the roster, we hired a new GM, a new head coach... just like everyone wanted. Then, since the results weren't instant, that wasn't good enough.
How many games was this team supposed to win with the circumstances being what they are/were?
Using the Seahawks as an example isn't going to work for me. They have a QB who is better than most QB's in football (certainly better than ours...) and despite their becoming a run-heavy team, still had a tremendously productive season. And again - Seattle has a defense. They are not "rebuilding" the same way we are. It's a bad comparison.
Seattles roster never got as poor as ours and they didn't just replace their coach. I'm not sure you could find many teams that are worse to use as comparisons.
I expected to see a well coached team that played to its strengths
I expected a team that understood its weaknesses and game planned to minimize them. Or how about a team that didn't come out of the preseason looking like an unmade bed? How about a team that had a grasp of clock management? Did the roster turnover impact our ability to manage the clock?
This is a league where you don't necessarily have to have the best talent to put together a decent season. I didn't expect 12-4, but I didn't expect to come out looking like a joke and having the season be over by Columbus Day. I didn't expect to go 1-5 in the division, and 0-3 at home in the division. I didn't expect to go 2-6 at home. And then to have both the GM and the head coach come out today talking about how they improved the culture over a 3-13 team...what kind of message is that?
If I were Mara today I'd be sick hearing that garbage.
Actually what's funny are the lengths that posters like FMIC, arcarsenal, and many others will go to in order to convince themselves and others that a 5-11 season is something about which to feel good.
It's funny when you guys do it because we're all just assholes on a message board. It's not funny when the GM and head coach spout the same bullshit.
At what point are posters saying they are happy with the season?
Because there isn't constant gnashing of teeth and parading around like a spoiled child whining about 7 years of bad football, we are acting as if teh season is good?
Your reading of people is worse than your concepts on building a team, and that is pretty fucking hard to top.
A 5-11 season sucks as a fan. The only difference was that I see it as a necessary stepping stone to get somewhere better whereas you seem to just want to go from a 3 win team to a really good one without any in between.
You're surprised a team looked unprepared with such heavy roster turnover, lack of talent, and a brand new coach/system on both sides of the football including basically changing our entire defensive front? That's your fault.
This isn't 1995 anymore. The CBA has made it extremely difficult to fully prepare a team when they HAVEN'T had this amount of roster and coaching turnover. It's why you hear coaches routinely complain about it - because they have to basically use September as an extension of the preseason now.
It's why NFL games don't "look" right until Thanksgiving.
This isn't an issue unique to the Giants. A lot of teams look very sloppy and unprepared out of the gates. Especially teams who just underwent this amount of change.
If the Giants are still a 5 win team next year, I'll be looking for new faces here just like everyone else.
Complaining about everything under the sun regarding the Giants doesn't mean you're less tolerant than I am - it just means you complain a lot more. I've been plenty critical of this franchise. I'm just not so miserable that I feel like staying in "nothing is ever going to get better, everything sucks" mode all the time.
And no, preparedness isn't related to managing the clock or using timeouts - that has to be better. But if coaches got fired for struggling with those aspects of the game alone, Andy Reid wouldn't have a job. This isn't reason enough for me to think we need to be so reactionary to fire the coach after 1 season. A team like the Cardinals is probably on the verge of a dangerous cycle if they whiff again.
They showed virtually no patience at all with Wilks, and if they have that same mindset after this coming year, they're never going to go anywhere.
Stuff like this gets magnified x100 when there's no margin of error on the field. When you're the Chiefs and you score about 40 points a game and win most of them, barely anyone notices clock management mishaps.
Actually what's funny are the lengths that posters like FMIC, arcarsenal, and many others will go to in order to convince themselves and others that a 5-11 season is something about which to feel good.
It's funny when you guys do it because we're all just assholes on a message board. It's not funny when the GM and head coach spout the same bullshit.
I don't feel good about a 5-11 season and I don't think anyone else does either. However I do feel good about the direction the team is headed and tons better than I did after the 3-13 season a year ago.
I saw guys who played hard, didn't quit on their team, and a team that battled while being in a majority of their games. Especially in the 2nd half of the year.
There's plenty still to be fixed but I feel they're headed in the right direction and I for one am not looking back. I'm looking forward with optimism and not skepticism.
Can you just see those nerdy gear heads at Jints Central.
DG: John, wheres that adding machine?
Mara: You mean a calculator?
DG: Yeah, calculator...adding machine...whatever.
Mara: You trying to do an algothingy?
DG: Nah, trying to figure how much we improved.
DG: What did you have last year? 3 wins? (laughing)
Mara: Yes, damn McAdoo.
DG: Okay. 5 divided by 3 equals...(sausage fingers pressing the keys)
DG: Uh...1.66666
Mara: Wow! A 66% improvement!
DG: How did you get that?
Mara: Minus 1
DG: (to himself] huh?
DG: Okay, lets emphasize that today at the pressa.
Mara: Should we declare that Eli is the starter yet?
DG: Nah. Lets toy with them a bit...
Andy Reid doesn't get fired because he is exceptional in many other areas of his job. With few exceptions we've been able to pencil his teams in for 10+ wins every year.
But what does Shurmur do that is exceptional? Is he exceptional at anything as a head coach? At this point, no.
The one thing he was supposed to be really good at was working with quarterbacks. Now I would argue that that job is best suited for a coordinator; a head coach has a lot more to worry about than just the QB. But that aside, did Shurmur's presence prove extremely beneficial for our QBs? Didn't seem that way to me. This wasn't a great season for Eli. Lauletta had a nightmare rookie season (which included Shurmur taking a not so veiled public shot at him in the media).
What do you see Shurmur doing exceptionally in 2019?
I actually think Shurmur did quite well with a very limited QB... getting him to turn the ball over less than any other year in his career outside of 2008 - which was a decade ago.
Eli's completion % was the highest of his career (it's up across the board in the NFL, but this was obviously a focal point) - he amassed about 800 more passing yards in just 1 fewer game.
This is about the best anyone is going to get out of Eli at this stage in his career. I have faith in Shurmur to be the guy to develop the next QB because I think he has a pretty good grasp of the position and what he's looking for - and I'm fairly certain that was part of the motivation behind hiring him to begin with.
I honestly felt the Giants were 100% unwatchable for almost all of 2017 and up through the bye week this season.
I still thought we were a bad team afterwards on the whole, but I most certainly thought the offensive line started to protect better, the team started to figure out their identity offensively a bit and we started putting more points on the board. We did it against some pretty good defenses, too. It wasn't all smoke and mirrors and we were missing our best WR for the final month.
I think if Hernandez continues to improve, we add another 2 offensive linemen, and hopefully another outside WR, this offense can be pretty good in 2019. I don't think they're that far away.
Defense has to be better, though. Otherwise we're the 2015 team all over again. An edge rusher is a massive need.
A 5-11 season sucks as a fan. The only difference was that I see it as a necessary stepping stone to get somewhere better whereas you seem to just want to go from a 3 win team to a really good one without any in between.
You're surprised a team looked unprepared with such heavy roster turnover, lack of talent, and a brand new coach/system on both sides of the football including basically changing our entire defensive front? That's your fault.
This isn't 1995 anymore. The CBA has made it extremely difficult to fully prepare a team when they HAVEN'T had this amount of roster and coaching turnover. It's why you hear coaches routinely complain about it - because they have to basically use September as an extension of the preseason now.
It's why NFL games don't "look" right until Thanksgiving.
This isn't an issue unique to the Giants. A lot of teams look very sloppy and unprepared out of the gates. Especially teams who just underwent this amount of change.
If the Giants are still a 5 win team next year, I'll be looking for new faces here just like everyone else.
Complaining about everything under the sun regarding the Giants doesn't mean you're less tolerant than I am - it just means you complain a lot more. I've been plenty critical of this franchise. I'm just not so miserable that I feel like staying in "nothing is ever going to get better, everything sucks" mode all the time.
I hope Gettleman got his culture thing out of his system, or at the least opts for very minimums and only pays decent salaries for players who are here for the football part.
KC because I had money on them to win the AFC West, and Baltimore because I'm fascinated by the offense they are running. I'm a big Jackson believer, but more than that I like seeing a team fully commit to having an offense run around the mobile QB. Since Jackson took over they have run 45 times for 230 yards per game (5 yards per carry). They've won the TOP battle in all 7 games, and are 6-1 over that stretch with the 1 loss being the Mahomes OT insanity game in KC.
Yeah it's only 7 games, but they're showing that there's another way to play offense in the NFL. It's a way that should interest us given the quality of our RB and the fact we're probably looking at a new QB soon.
Theres no doubt it can work. Falcons did it with Vick too. They had Dunn and the other bigger back (what hell was his name) and they used to run down hill all game long. Vick was THE reason why they ran the ball so well as he opened up the entire offense. Defenses had to focus on him. Jackson is too. We know the risks but it most definitely works. Fun to watch too. Id probably sign off on that here one day soon but its riskier in a sense.
You guys have no idea if the Eli salary thing this coming season is at all being discussed. Why would it ? Hes over paid? Says who? Its probably his last year in the nfl if hes even playing next year do you really think DG is insisting on a paycut right now? Teams dont operate that way with the starting established qb quite often especially the giants. This frickin non stop salary and overpaid talk its not a factor right now ... get off it. Eli likely said hes fed up with the fucking losing. Look hes got his flaws but you have got your fucking head in the sand if you dont believe this team has sucked around him more often than not the last 6-7 years. Dont be stupid. Hate Eli and want him gone all you want but hes been besieged by shit lately the evidence is right in front of you. The defenses have sucked all he time. Thats why Elis (likely) pissed off.
I think it's safer. It takes years to refine a pocket passer. If you end up with Drew Brees it's great. But how often does a passer of his quality come around?
Lamar Jackson's best asset is that the threat of his athleticism opens things up for other players. You have to defend all 11 guys on every play. That's the advantage he has over Brees or Brady. He's never going to be either of those guys as a passer, but he doesn't have to be. As long as he's leading a run first team his passing windows are going to be massive by comparison. And the holes for his RBs will be bigger too.
And the biggest advantage is that it's way easier to replace Jackson than it is Brees or Brady. College football is filled with athletic quarterbacks. It isn't filled with grand masters like Brees and Brady.
He is usually pretty interesting. Hopefully he talks about having a plan to attack this offseason and about cap flexibility
-Need to finish games
-Will look into all avenues to improve team
-Eli can still play
Wait....wrong guy....
Well, that's a not committal answer.
I wonder if they hope that Eli retires and makes the decision easy for them.
Im not sure if its going to be over money, NYG drafting a QB or Elis own retirement but I think its over.
haha
Seriously, come on...
cut feed.
You have a team worth billions and they continue to suck with their online platform. Unbelievable
Last comment I heard him make was about it being a mistake to make emotional decisions (was asked about JJ and OV and how they performed, where he inherited their big contracts).
Also, don't advertise you are starting at 11:30 and instead begin a few minutes early.
Competitive nature gives him encouragement
Did not commit to Eli
Defense must improve
C'mon guys, think.
Yea it was candid but the he took me to the low post and won ... is telling in that Eli made some points but question is did his points resonate with Eli? If so where is the middle ground they can reach $$$ wise?
Quote:
seems like it was not a fun conversation they had...here's hoping 10 makes it back to NYG for one more shot.
no heres hoping he retires so the Giants win again
The TEAM wins and loses. Not 1 player.
Eli is the starting QB in 2019 with a better OL and better Defense.
1) Giants scored the most points in NFC East.
2) Giants allowed the most points in the NFC East.
that means they will have the same candid convo with OV, and assess Collins value properly.
With Eli it means he is either back at a value that is workable for the cap and the team and his value.... or he is not. Which at this stage is the right thing.
so that is positive if that is the case
None of the teams drafting in front of them are desperate for a QB, except maybe for Tampa Bay. It's time to build this team the way most successful teams are: with a good, cheap rookie QB, which allows you to spend a ton of resources elsewhere.
I follow the ravens too and their site is wonderful.
I follow the ravens too and their site is wonderful.
Just when I was beginning to enjoy your posts... ;)
Agree, I guess he didn't want to be late for lunch.
C'mon guys, think.
Exactly..
ahh...so you think the Ravens would trade Jackson because people "stupid fans" have doubt? The guy won three games without throwing a TD pass. Once he figures out the offense and how to play in an NFL system, he is going to be as dangerous as Watson.
I'm just seeing a lot of question marks due to the number of holes we have???
That's not saying much, LOL.
Quote:
While people are still doubtful, lol
ahh...so you think the Ravens would trade Jackson because people "stupid fans" have doubt? The guy won three games without throwing a TD pass. Once he figures out the offense and how to play in an NFL system, he is going to be as dangerous as Watson.
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
He graded out very well in pass blocking according to PFF. Best on the line at that point before he got hurt and had he done it over a full season would've been their #3 pass blocking C in the league. Graded him about average to below average as a run blocker.
Verified account
@art_stapleton
10m10 minutes ago
More
Dave Gettleman says Eli Manning came in to him on Monday and says he wanted to talk.
"Wasn't like he was called to the principal's office. He came to see me."
Based on Archie's comments earlier this week, I wonder if Eli went in and gave his list of demands for next season.
Sounds like Eli came in Monday to talk to DG. Also sounds like it was a very honest and direct conversation.
I can't stand the Ravens but I think it's because of their fan-base. When the team is good, everyone is die-hard and trash-talking like idiots (even to me, whose team has zero rivalry with them.) When the team is mediocre or bad, it's like they don't exist. I understand why the Colts left. I know many people who suddenly became Eagles' fans last year and claimed to have "always rooted for the Eagles when Baltimore had no team." And there's also the unquestioned support of Ray Lewis. Some teams have asshole fans, these guys are just pathetic.
That would be a good thing. Let him count his money and stay out of personnel decisions.
Quote:
While people are still doubtful, lol
ahh...so you think the Ravens would trade Jackson because people "stupid fans" have doubt? The guy won three games without throwing a TD pass. Once he figures out the offense and how to play in an NFL system, he is going to be as dangerous as Watson.
Watson is a better passer than Jackson. I think that once teams have enough film on Jackson they will figure out ways to stop him and keep him in the pocket and he will struggle. That or he will suffer a serious knee injury.
Looking back, and not being a film junkie, Halapio may have been the best lineman before he got hurt. The LT was new, playing hurt and trying to help the LG. The LG was raw and learning. The C was trying to help the RG and learning himself. The RG somehow fooled everyone but was trying to help out the overmatched RT.
If the Giants have even average production from the center position, and only have to address RG and RT, they are in much better shape than last year.
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
how was he treated?
I agree with this 100%.
Quote:
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
how was he treated?
It really should be it's own topic. That's not what this thread is for.
Exactly. Eli wants to stay and play here. He hasn't won no matter how much we love him and how much the team around him has roster issues. So a pay cut affords flexibility allowing Eli to stick and compete. Refusal to do so, which if I'm Eli I probably would just walk instead, would likely lead to his release.
Eli can still play - He just isn't a game changer. Something should change here.
Quote:
In comment 14244227 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
how was he treated?
It really should be it's own topic. That's not what this thread is for.
Not really sure what you're getting at, but maybe a lot of teams downgraded him because he's a run first QB with a slight frame and the history of run first QBs isn't very long. Vick played 16 games once in his career and only made the postseason 4 times. Newton's been much healthier and more successful, but he's a physical anomaly at 6-5, 245 lbs and may be starting to show some wear and tear at only 29.
When part of the argument for taking a QB over other players is due to their longevity, you have to knock Jackson relative to the other QBs too. And with QB being the most important position on the field, durability and stability at the position is critical. Teams can't afford to have their QB missing 3-4-5 games a season with injuries.
I would be. I don't think Mara would get behind that.
I think it's more likely they try and restructure his deal so he gets all his money than it is for them to give him a take it or leave it ultimatum.
I know he's due a lot next year and eats a chunk of the cap but I think they find a way for him to get all the money due him.
Quote:
In comment 14244264 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14244227 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
how was he treated?
It really should be it's own topic. That's not what this thread is for.
Not really sure what you're getting at, but maybe a lot of teams downgraded him because he's a run first QB with a slight frame and the history of run first QBs isn't very long. Vick played 16 games once in his career and only made the postseason 4 times. Newton's been much healthier and more successful, but he's a physical anomaly at 6-5, 245 lbs and may be starting to show some wear and tear at only 29.
When part of the argument for taking a QB over other players is due to their longevity, you have to knock Jackson relative to the other QBs too. And with QB being the most important position on the field, durability and stability at the position is critical. Teams can't afford to have their QB missing 3-4-5 games a season with injuries.
And yet no one would balk at paying A Rodgers. While hes not run first, he is a mobile QB and nicked up often due to his mobility.
Yeah it's only 7 games, but they're showing that there's another way to play offense in the NFL. It's a way that should interest us given the quality of our RB and the fact we're probably looking at a new QB soon.
Quote:
He is non-committal to Eli, is because he doesn't want to tip off what he's going to do with the #6 overall pick. Duh.
C'mon guys, think.
Exactly..
This makes zero sense. One, FA happens prior to the draft. Two, Eli is owed a 5 million dollar roster bonus at the start of the new league year. Any decision on Eli is going to be made well in advance of the draft. And Eli is not stopping this team from drafting a QB if that player is wanted by this organization.
Say what?
Jeez, I wouldn't want a guy like him to handle home inspection.
centers around taking a pay cut to stay here.
If Gettleman was supposedly 'blunt' when talking with Eli,
then the pay cut, wouldn't be a surprise at all in the future conversation(s).
Quote:
In comment 14244264 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14244227 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
how was he treated?
It really should be it's own topic. That's not what this thread is for.
Not really sure what you're getting at, but maybe a lot of teams downgraded him because he's a run first QB with a slight frame and the history of run first QBs isn't very long. Vick played 16 games once in his career and only made the postseason 4 times. Newton's been much healthier and more successful, but he's a physical anomaly at 6-5, 245 lbs and may be starting to show some wear and tear at only 29.
When part of the argument for taking a QB over other players is due to their longevity, you have to knock Jackson relative to the other QBs too. And with QB being the most important position on the field, durability and stability at the position is critical. Teams can't afford to have their QB missing 3-4-5 games a season with injuries.
We're really millering a thread for a different topic though. I'm fine having the conversation, but this isn't a thread about Lamar Jackson. It just happened to be sidetracked out of a comment made about the Ravens team website.
If there was a running QB with any where close to that type of track record, they would get paid too.
Verified account
@art_stapleton
10m10 minutes ago
More
Dave Gettleman says Eli Manning came in to him on Monday and says he wanted to talk.
"Wasn't like he was called to the principal's office. He came to see me."
Based on Archie's comments earlier this week, I wonder if Eli went in and gave his list of demands for next season.
List of demands? lol.
During Beningo and Roberts? HAHAHAHAHA.
They were taking calls about Bruce Arians coming out of retirement to coach the Jets!
Halapio isn't a young project, the Giants are his 7th organization since 2014 including two separate stints in the FXFL.
He may have been playing well and may continue to play well - nothing I will post is a commentary on that at all, just saying he's 28 years old before training camp next year and has 8 career NFL starts (all with the Giants though he was on practice squads for the Patriots (twice), Broncos, and Cardinals (plus the aforementioned FXFL).
Quote:
be stunned if Gettleman gave Eli the Steve Smith ultimatum and treatment.
I would be. I don't think Mara would get behind that.
I think it's more likely they try and restructure his deal so he gets all his money than it is for them to give him a take it or leave it ultimatum.
I know he's due a lot next year and eats a chunk of the cap but I think they find a way for him to get all the money due him.
I wouldn't be stunned at all. It is the way DG has handled a lot of veterans in his career. steve Smith, DeAngelo Williams, Jon Beason, Jordan Gross.
When he broached the topic for Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen he was shown the door.
He has a connection point there. He didn't with Steve Smith and Greg Olsen.
It does matter. You see how fans stay so emotionally connected to players. Imagine if you worked with the guy directly.
Nothing would surprise me. I trust DG to do what's right by the Giants.
Looks like they finally posted it on giants.com
Nothing would surprise me. I trust DG to do what's right by the Giants.
Give me a pocket passer all day every day. That's the only thing that works in the NFL.
RE: Halapio. Beyond the fact he's proven to be a journeyman at best, a dude that big recovering from a lower leg injury is tough. What are the odds he's as good as he was last year? Another year older with a bad wheel? That was a major injury.
Quote:
In comment 14244166 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
be stunned if Gettleman gave Eli the Steve Smith ultimatum and treatment.
I would be. I don't think Mara would get behind that.
I think it's more likely they try and restructure his deal so he gets all his money than it is for them to give him a take it or leave it ultimatum.
I know he's due a lot next year and eats a chunk of the cap but I think they find a way for him to get all the money due him.
I wouldn't be stunned at all. It is the way DG has handled a lot of veterans in his career. steve Smith, DeAngelo Williams, Jon Beason, Jordan Gross.
When he broached the topic for Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen he was shown the door.
No doubt DG has the stones to do it but I think Eli is on a higher level than those vets. At least when it comes to what he's not only done for the Giants franchise, but their fans and DG himself.
I know those guys were important to Carolina's history but they didn't accomplish what Eli has and I just feel the Giants wouldn't do him that way.
Could it happen? Sure, but I'd be surprised if it went down that way. I think it's much more likely they either bring him back, restructure so he gets his money somehow, or convince him to retire because they don't want his career here to end with them cutting him.
Quote:
Wouldn't surprise me if he retired, was cut, drafted a replacement at six, extended, etc...
Nothing would surprise me. I trust DG to do what's right by the Giants.
from the guy who has been repeatedly stating as fact that Eli would be the starter for the Giants next year, thats a huge pivot
Still believe he will be starting, and have outlined the reasons a hundred thousand times at this point.
I just said I wouldn't be surprised. Just like I said I wouldn't be surprised if we took a QB at number 2 last year.
I want to amend my statement, though, now.
What WILL surprise me is if they cut Eli and sign some journeyman bum QB for 10 million.
Halapio isn't a young project, the Giants are his 7th organization since 2014 including two separate stints in the FXFL.
He may have been playing well and may continue to play well - nothing I will post is a commentary on that at all, just saying he's 28 years old before training camp next year and has 8 career NFL starts (all with the Giants though he was on practice squads for the Patriots (twice), Broncos, and Cardinals (plus the aforementioned FXFL).
The difference is that there were a lot of comments made about DG's lack of emotion and sentimentality when making moves in Carolina. Steve Smith said he was a cold-blooded, heartless person. DeAngelo Williams said he deserved better from Gettleman and the Panthers.
Quote:
In comment 14244417 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Wouldn't surprise me if he retired, was cut, drafted a replacement at six, extended, etc...
Nothing would surprise me. I trust DG to do what's right by the Giants.
from the guy who has been repeatedly stating as fact that Eli would be the starter for the Giants next year, thats a huge pivot
Still believe he will be starting, and have outlined the reasons a hundred thousand times at this point.
I just said I wouldn't be surprised. Just like I said I wouldn't be surprised if we took a QB at number 2 last year.
I want to amend my statement, though, now.
What WILL surprise me is if they cut Eli and sign some journeyman bum QB for 10 million.
what if they sign a journeyman bum for 5 mil?
Quote:
thanks.
Looks like they finally posted it on giants.com
Yep, they just did. Thanks.
I personally can't bear this relationship any longer. Eli getting ****ed on, and he has to keep taking this as a professional. It's fine for a time, maybe more than a time, but it's gone too far.
The Giants can figure out how to be professionals on their own at this point.
Quote:
In comment 14244196 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
While people are still doubtful, lol
ahh...so you think the Ravens would trade Jackson because people "stupid fans" have doubt? The guy won three games without throwing a TD pass. Once he figures out the offense and how to play in an NFL system, he is going to be as dangerous as Watson.
I love him. I want him to be great. Hated how he was treated in the draft.
I still think they'll re-sign Brown, buy a RT in free agency and draft a C. But we'll see.
That's a lot of resources when DG is clearly looking to infuse the D.
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
I think Eli would legitimately consider retiring and maybe even mentioned it to Gettleman to ask for a little time with family before going one way or the other.
I suspect Eli wanted to get an idea where Giants are at for next year and how they evaluate him.
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
Sounds about right. Sometimes you need to light $20m on fire and start subpar players to fix team culture.
Whatever he does, it won't be without running it by the Maras first.
See what Fats wrote about his brutally honest conversations and decisions with a few of the Panthers.
I see some kind of face saving voidable extension that's effectively a pay cut and salary cap lowering hit for 2019, allowing the Giants to add some more veteran OL and D help. But it wouldn't be my first bad prediction if not.
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
That's a brutal answer. Oof.
Or he was but barkley's maturity and Stewart's locker room presence offset his "intangible" value coupled with a pressing need to try something on the OL .. ie Brown and Wheeler.
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
Very interesting.
Quote:
In comment 14244158 GiantSteps said:
Quote:
seems like it was not a fun conversation they had...here's hoping 10 makes it back to NYG for one more shot.
no heres hoping he retires so the Giants win again
The TEAM wins and loses. Not 1 player.
Eli is the starting QB in 2019 with a better OL and better Defense.
1) Giants scored the most points in NFC East.
2) Giants allowed the most points in the NFC East.
Why is this "giants scored the most in NFC East" being throwing around as its the greatest accomplishment or being a prolific offense ala LA Rams etc etc? Bottomline, end result, last place in division. Can blame defense and losing close games..but this offense many of times than not failed nor didnt close out games.
Quote:
in explaining Free Agent misses:
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
Very interesting.
That is exactly what I was saying about Stewart when we signed him. Everyone was pointing out whether the guy could be a productive runner and I said he is not here to run the ball.
People don't get it.
Quote:
In comment 14244450 mittenedman said:
Quote:
in explaining Free Agent misses:
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
Very interesting.
That is exactly what I was saying about Stewart when we signed him. Everyone was pointing out whether the guy could be a productive runner and I said he is not here to run the ball.
People don't get it.
People got it at the time. They just disagreed that it's worth it, especially in the case of Barkley, who is super coachable and isn't a character concern.
Makes sense when you think about the biggest culture culprits last year (outside of the irredeemable Apple) were their starting offensive tackles. Heck, 4/5 of their line look like they might have been let go for more than performance (or lack thereof).
The definition of insanity line is true to how Gettleman operates. If it's not working he changes it. Look at the OL.
I agree the team is moving in the right direction.
Now go draft Josh Allen from Kentucky at #6.
He would probably say, "Hey, dummy, you are only slated to paid $17M."
Quote:
In comment 14244450 mittenedman said:
Quote:
in explaining Free Agent misses:
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
Very interesting.
That is exactly what I was saying about Stewart when we signed him. Everyone was pointing out whether the guy could be a productive runner and I said he is not here to run the ball.
People don't get it.
Count me as someone who doesn't get it, unless the effectiveness of these kinds of moves is somehow considered to be self-evident and backed by precedent.
It's something you can't walk back from. Ever. And I think Eli proved he can still play and that's enough.
He's done enough. 2 time SB winner. 2 time SB MVP. We were lucky to have him.
That just doesn't seem like good leadership to me.
People got it at the time. They just disagreed that it's worth it, especially in the case of Barkley, who is super coachable and isn't a character concern.
No... people did not get it. Plus, nobody knew that Barkley was was going to be as much of a leader as he is a talented RB. NOBODY knew that.
This locker room sucked last year and bringing in Stewart was not just for Barkley. We needed more veterans in the locker room who knew how to be a professional.
If you ever get to spend any time on a team at a high level, you will understand that the things that happen off of the field are just as important as what you see on TV during the 60 minutes. The Giants teams that won the last two Superbowls should be a prime example. We were not the most talented team in both instances. It was the leadership and the intangibles that truly were the difference.
please no mentor role. Eli said he is not interested in it and as long as he is with the team, it is very difficult for a young QB to develop, IMO.
The definition of insanity line is true to how Gettleman operates. If it's not working he changes it. Look at the OL.
I agree the team is moving in the right direction.
Now go draft Josh Allen from Kentucky at #6.
Probably a good chance Allen isn't there at 6, then who??
Matt Lombardo @MattLombardoNFL
1m
I asked Gettleman if #Giants need to re-evaluate offseason process after FA misses Patrick Omameh, Jonathan Stewart: Were in a different place than a year ago, from a culture standpoint. Omameh, Stewart are consummate pros, were brought here for reasons other than play #Giants
At least with Stewert we kind of figured that.
Likely pull out his contract and show him that he is indeed not going to make $23M in 2019 and probably refer him to his agent and lawyer to review in more detail.
Interesting to say the least.
Go Terps : 3:15 pm : link : reply
Not filling me with confidence...
You are so biased that there's likely nothing Gettleman could say to inspire you with confidence.
Quote:
I'm listening to Gettleman now with Francesa
Go Terps : 3:15 pm : link : reply
Not filling me with confidence...
You are so biased that there's likely nothing Gettleman could say to inspire you with confidence.
Yes, and you've shown yourself to be the model of objectivity.
That just doesn't seem like good leadership to me.
Saying they want to change the culture is not good leadership? What does that even mean? Plenty of people say it all the time, coaches, GMs, and owners.
We played horrible football this year? C'mon man. We were competitive in nearly every game aside from 3.
Then I watched his first press conference. And loved the guy. And I just watched the tape of today's press conference. And I still love the guy - even more.
I think he is very straight forward. He says what he can and imo only holds back if answering would hurt the team in some way (negotiations; player relationship; draft or game strategy; etc). Otherwise, I think he is one of the most open and down to earth guys I've ever listened to. A breath of fresh air.
Looking back 30 years from now, he may not in hindsight end up being the greatest GM of all time. But I can't think of anyone else I would rather have as GM of the NY Giants for the foreseeable future.
There's a lot of deflection from the 5-11 record. Not just that, but they are talking about the second half of the year like it was a success. 4-4, having lost the last 3 of the season...low bar, there.
Now that it appears to be corrected, and the GM and coach have made note of that, it's an issue?
It doesn't seem like there's anything that can be done that you won't find a way to complain about. Literally every appearance you make here is complaining or criticizing on a daily basis.
I get it, the team sucks, we should all be incensed, etc... but it just seems like it doesn't matter what is said or done. You'll find a way to disagree with it.
Quote:
People got it at the time. They just disagreed that it's worth it, especially in the case of Barkley, who is super coachable and isn't a character concern.
No... people did not get it. Plus, nobody knew that Barkley was was going to be as much of a leader as he is a talented RB. NOBODY knew that.
This locker room sucked last year and bringing in Stewart was not just for Barkley. We needed more veterans in the locker room who knew how to be a professional.
If you ever get to spend any time on a team at a high level, you will understand that the things that happen off of the field are just as important as what you see on TV during the 60 minutes. The Giants teams that won the last two Superbowls should be a prime example. We were not the most talented team in both instances. It was the leadership and the intangibles that truly were the difference.
One of those super bowl teams went out and partied the night before the game. One of those super bowl teams predicted a win, creating the dreaded "bulletin board material".
Maybe it's as simple as DG preferring to look at and build on the positives than dwelling on the negatives. At least publicly.
I'm sure he's well aware of the team's deficiencies but isn't going to air them in his pressers or on the radio. He's trying to change the culture and build a better one. Pointing out the good things accomplished this year IMO adds to that.
That said - what was going on in this locker room a year ago compared to now are very different and I think it's obvious.
Changing the culture here was a priority for this regime, and I think they're off to a good start as far as results go, but we can't be signing players for their leadership if they can't help the team on the field.
If they CAN help on the field, obviously high-character guys are great to have.
If I've done my job poorly, I don't tell my bosses "yeah but the guy before me did an even worse job".
I watched the games, and this was a team that played poorly, was poorly prepared, was poorly coached on gameday, and produced a poor season. What I'm hearing from the guys responsible is excuses and finger pointing at the previous regime.
As I type this Shurmur just brought up 3-13 again to Francesa.
They're trying to point out where the team got better - and I think it's being obtuse to completely deny that the team improved at all. The numbers are right there. The offensive production was better this year than it was last year. We can point that out and say we still need to get better - which is what they're doing.
I heard the coach say we need to get better defensively, I heard the coach say we want to continue building the offensive line... that he thought Will Hernandez was light years better later in the year than he was earlier. I heard the GM be very non-committal regarding the QB - telling me he's not content to just roll Eli back out there without exploring alternatives.
The team wasn't uniformly shitty all year. Everyone from analysts, to players, to fans, to the coach himself felt like they saw a few positives on the offensive side of the ball and seemed to think we started moving in a better direction.
We can think that and still believe the team is missing pieces and needs to improve.
How often do you see teams undergo this type of turnover and look like a well-oiled machine in September?
Just doesn't happen.
Because Matt Nagy has a superstar defense. Give Matt Nagy our defense and give me a call when he goes 12-4.
With a second year quarterback...
You'd think Gettleman and Shurmur have been charged with an impossible task.
Does Shurmur need more than one year to learn game management? Does he need more than a year to realize that if your pass protection sucks, and your pass rush sucks, you shouldn't throw the ball 200 times more than you run it?
We've seen what it looks like when a talent deficient team is well coached. That's not what happened this year. Go back and read the game threads. Read Sy's game summaries. It's all there.
Better talent on their roster for one thing and trading for one of the best Defensive players in the game no doubt helped. I'm sure getting Mack lifted that team more than just on the field.
Quote:
.
Better talent on their roster for one thing and trading for one of the best Defensive players in the game no doubt helped. I'm sure getting Mack lifted that team more than just on the field.
All good points. To me, the Bears are still a defensive first team. They've got talent on offense, and the best still might be coming, but right now Nagy's offense is really a lot of window dressing.
He's interested in building the team the way he thinks is best, and if that's going to take a few years, so be it. He can't concern himself about what happened before he arrived. We all bitch about what has happened since SB 46 but that's not relevant to DG's process IMO.
And yes, he's trying to win every year but it's obvious the team has needs and he's going to try and fill them the best way he can.
Funny you brought up the Bears.
They also had a 3 win season the year before we did.
They followed it up with a 5 win season... like we did.
Now they're a 12 win team and division champions.
They started this process earlier than we did. That's why. They also made a move for an elite defensive player who is head and shoulders better than anyone we have here. Akeim Hicks is a monster.
The Bears had the top scoring defense in the league. Again, you guys are focusing on the wrong side of the ball and making it all about the QB and his experience level. It's the same thing with the Baltimore Ravens. Know why they're winning with Lamar Jackson? They have a great defense. This does not work with the Giants' defense... trust me.
Bringing up the Bears should, if anything, show you guys that you don't go from losing 13 games to winning 13 games in one offseason. A 5-win season like this was an inevitable stepping stone for the Giants whether people want to accept that or not.
It's not a linear thing. You have to control for the fact that this league is set up to prop up bad teams and knock down good teams. There are rebuilding teams that have winning records. Go look at Seattle for an example of that.
If you start 1-7 and end up 5-11, and you didn't have some catastrophic injury or injuries...in today's NFL, you're a really bad team.
Just because we won 2 more games than the explosion year of 2017 doesn't mean we did well. More importantly it doesn't mean we're on the right track.
We turned over a huge portion of the roster, we hired a new GM, a new head coach... just like everyone wanted. Then, since the results weren't instant, that wasn't good enough.
How many games was this team supposed to win with the circumstances being what they are/were?
Using the Seahawks as an example isn't going to work for me. They have a QB who is better than most QB's in football (certainly better than ours...) and despite their becoming a run-heavy team, still had a tremendously productive season. And again - Seattle has a defense. They are not "rebuilding" the same way we are. It's a bad comparison.
Seattles roster never got as poor as ours and they didn't just replace their coach. I'm not sure you could find many teams that are worse to use as comparisons.
This is a league where you don't necessarily have to have the best talent to put together a decent season. I didn't expect 12-4, but I didn't expect to come out looking like a joke and having the season be over by Columbus Day. I didn't expect to go 1-5 in the division, and 0-3 at home in the division. I didn't expect to go 2-6 at home. And then to have both the GM and the head coach come out today talking about how they improved the culture over a 3-13 team...what kind of message is that?
If I were Mara today I'd be sick hearing that garbage.
And because of it, guys like Trubisky and Jackson get lauded.
Just like Jax last year, watch what happens when those D's become pedestrian. Spoiler alert - the offenses won't carry them.
Is it any coincidence that the seahawks missed the playoffs the season their D tanked?
It's funny when you guys do it because we're all just assholes on a message board. It's not funny when the GM and head coach spout the same bullshit.
At what point are posters saying they are happy with the season?
Because there isn't constant gnashing of teeth and parading around like a spoiled child whining about 7 years of bad football, we are acting as if teh season is good?
Your reading of people is worse than your concepts on building a team, and that is pretty fucking hard to top.
A 5-11 season sucks as a fan. The only difference was that I see it as a necessary stepping stone to get somewhere better whereas you seem to just want to go from a 3 win team to a really good one without any in between.
You're surprised a team looked unprepared with such heavy roster turnover, lack of talent, and a brand new coach/system on both sides of the football including basically changing our entire defensive front? That's your fault.
This isn't 1995 anymore. The CBA has made it extremely difficult to fully prepare a team when they HAVEN'T had this amount of roster and coaching turnover. It's why you hear coaches routinely complain about it - because they have to basically use September as an extension of the preseason now.
It's why NFL games don't "look" right until Thanksgiving.
This isn't an issue unique to the Giants. A lot of teams look very sloppy and unprepared out of the gates. Especially teams who just underwent this amount of change.
If the Giants are still a 5 win team next year, I'll be looking for new faces here just like everyone else.
Complaining about everything under the sun regarding the Giants doesn't mean you're less tolerant than I am - it just means you complain a lot more. I've been plenty critical of this franchise. I'm just not so miserable that I feel like staying in "nothing is ever going to get better, everything sucks" mode all the time.
C'mon guys, think.
Think? Youre asking a lot.
Guys says too much people get mad. Guy says too little people get mad.
They showed virtually no patience at all with Wilks, and if they have that same mindset after this coming year, they're never going to go anywhere.
Stuff like this gets magnified x100 when there's no margin of error on the field. When you're the Chiefs and you score about 40 points a game and win most of them, barely anyone notices clock management mishaps.
It's funny when you guys do it because we're all just assholes on a message board. It's not funny when the GM and head coach spout the same bullshit.
I don't feel good about a 5-11 season and I don't think anyone else does either. However I do feel good about the direction the team is headed and tons better than I did after the 3-13 season a year ago.
I saw guys who played hard, didn't quit on their team, and a team that battled while being in a majority of their games. Especially in the 2nd half of the year.
There's plenty still to be fixed but I feel they're headed in the right direction and I for one am not looking back. I'm looking forward with optimism and not skepticism.
DG: John, wheres that adding machine?
Mara: You mean a calculator?
DG: Yeah, calculator...adding machine...whatever.
Mara: You trying to do an algothingy?
DG: Nah, trying to figure how much we improved.
DG: What did you have last year? 3 wins? (laughing)
Mara: Yes, damn McAdoo.
DG: Okay. 5 divided by 3 equals...(sausage fingers pressing the keys)
DG: Uh...1.66666
Mara: Wow! A 66% improvement!
DG: How did you get that?
Mara: Minus 1
DG: (to himself] huh?
DG: Okay, lets emphasize that today at the pressa.
Mara: Should we declare that Eli is the starter yet?
DG: Nah. Lets toy with them a bit...
But what does Shurmur do that is exceptional? Is he exceptional at anything as a head coach? At this point, no.
The one thing he was supposed to be really good at was working with quarterbacks. Now I would argue that that job is best suited for a coordinator; a head coach has a lot more to worry about than just the QB. But that aside, did Shurmur's presence prove extremely beneficial for our QBs? Didn't seem that way to me. This wasn't a great season for Eli. Lauletta had a nightmare rookie season (which included Shurmur taking a not so veiled public shot at him in the media).
What do you see Shurmur doing exceptionally in 2019?
Eli's completion % was the highest of his career (it's up across the board in the NFL, but this was obviously a focal point) - he amassed about 800 more passing yards in just 1 fewer game.
This is about the best anyone is going to get out of Eli at this stage in his career. I have faith in Shurmur to be the guy to develop the next QB because I think he has a pretty good grasp of the position and what he's looking for - and I'm fairly certain that was part of the motivation behind hiring him to begin with.
I honestly felt the Giants were 100% unwatchable for almost all of 2017 and up through the bye week this season.
I still thought we were a bad team afterwards on the whole, but I most certainly thought the offensive line started to protect better, the team started to figure out their identity offensively a bit and we started putting more points on the board. We did it against some pretty good defenses, too. It wasn't all smoke and mirrors and we were missing our best WR for the final month.
I think if Hernandez continues to improve, we add another 2 offensive linemen, and hopefully another outside WR, this offense can be pretty good in 2019. I don't think they're that far away.
Defense has to be better, though. Otherwise we're the 2015 team all over again. An edge rusher is a massive need.
A 5-11 season sucks as a fan. The only difference was that I see it as a necessary stepping stone to get somewhere better whereas you seem to just want to go from a 3 win team to a really good one without any in between.
You're surprised a team looked unprepared with such heavy roster turnover, lack of talent, and a brand new coach/system on both sides of the football including basically changing our entire defensive front? That's your fault.
This isn't 1995 anymore. The CBA has made it extremely difficult to fully prepare a team when they HAVEN'T had this amount of roster and coaching turnover. It's why you hear coaches routinely complain about it - because they have to basically use September as an extension of the preseason now.
It's why NFL games don't "look" right until Thanksgiving.
This isn't an issue unique to the Giants. A lot of teams look very sloppy and unprepared out of the gates. Especially teams who just underwent this amount of change.
If the Giants are still a 5 win team next year, I'll be looking for new faces here just like everyone else.
Complaining about everything under the sun regarding the Giants doesn't mean you're less tolerant than I am - it just means you complain a lot more. I've been plenty critical of this franchise. I'm just not so miserable that I feel like staying in "nothing is ever going to get better, everything sucks" mode all the time.
Arc spot on as usual.
Yeah it's only 7 games, but they're showing that there's another way to play offense in the NFL. It's a way that should interest us given the quality of our RB and the fact we're probably looking at a new QB soon.
Theres no doubt it can work. Falcons did it with Vick too. They had Dunn and the other bigger back (what hell was his name) and they used to run down hill all game long. Vick was THE reason why they ran the ball so well as he opened up the entire offense. Defenses had to focus on him. Jackson is too. We know the risks but it most definitely works. Fun to watch too. Id probably sign off on that here one day soon but its riskier in a sense.
Lamar Jackson's best asset is that the threat of his athleticism opens things up for other players. You have to defend all 11 guys on every play. That's the advantage he has over Brees or Brady. He's never going to be either of those guys as a passer, but he doesn't have to be. As long as he's leading a run first team his passing windows are going to be massive by comparison. And the holes for his RBs will be bigger too.
And the biggest advantage is that it's way easier to replace Jackson than it is Brees or Brady. College football is filled with athletic quarterbacks. It isn't filled with grand masters like Brees and Brady.