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Manning ranked 28th in PFF final QB list

jeff57 : 1/2/2019 11:20 am
Quote:
Manningís big-time throw percentage from a clean pocket (3.3%) was the sixth-lowest in the NFL in 2018. Fitting in accurate passes into tight windows down the field hasnít been easy for Manning in recent years.


FWIW.
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RE: Put Flowers and Pugh on the line of any other QB  
Tuckrule : 1/2/2019 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14244208 since1925 said:
Quote:
And watch them regress. Duh. The Giants have had garbage up front for years. The miracle was the 11-5 season. How was that possible?


Turnovers and Odell taking 5 yard passes to the house 🏠
RE: People who..  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/2/2019 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14244257 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
use PFF to make any sort of point fail a very common IQ test regarding football.


PFF is a data point, and like all data, it will never completely tell the whole picture.
I'm sure  
Metnut : 1/2/2019 12:33 pm : link
he'll get even better over the next few years as he hits 40 years old.
RE: Other rankings  
Thegratefulhead : 1/2/2019 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14244112 AcesUp said:
Quote:
22nd in passing DVOA from Football Outsiders and 25th in ESPN QBR. I think they're all fair, he's probably in that 22-28th range ranking starting QBs. He's a lowend starter, that's what he is now.
There is plenty of evidence available and the eye test. With the game on the line and the ball in his hands, he gets worse instead of better. For most of his career this was NOT the case. It hurts to watch him play now.
RE: RE: Marcus Mariota  
Big Blue '56 : 1/2/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14244273 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
In comment 14244241 dep026 said:


Quote:


should be the 32nd rank QB every year. The guy is as useless as tits on a bull.



I know you are being facetious here dep, but what will always put Mariota in the middle of the pack is he will have a brilliant game one week, then the next week completely shit the bed. It will never make him the worst, but never the best either. I had mentioned it before, he is the most consistent inconsistent QB in the league.


Wasnít that Eli before he entered his prime?
BigBlue..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 12:36 pm : link
but it really isn't a data point. I can pull out numerous examples where PFF isn't even directionally accurate. I'm not saying it applies to this discussion, but PFF gets referenced when there are serious concerns about their methodology.

You can find debates out there that PFF has up to a 35% +/- error factor. That's massive!!
BB'56  
figgy2989 : 1/2/2019 12:40 pm : link
By the end of Eli's 4th year, he was getting ready for a magical playoff run that would result in a Super Bowl.

Not comparing Mariota to Eli, but Eli never had a shitty year like Marcus did this year. I know he only had 13 starts, but only managed to throw 11 TD's!!!

Data  
Thegratefulhead : 1/2/2019 12:47 pm : link
Any data you share here that paints Eli as being an average or slightly below average QB are flawed. Any player, past or present, any analyst that critizes Eli has an agenda or is jealous of him. The ONLY data that matters is data derived when the Giants are playing bad defenses, back up QBs or teams with nothing to play for and Eli has time to throw and the running game is firing on all cylinders. That is the solid data? Do you know how fucking insane that is?
And wtf is a "Clean pocket Big time throw percentage"?  
HomerJones45 : 1/2/2019 12:48 pm : link
The whole thing begs some questions:

- who says this is a statistically relevant number?
- who defines a "clean pocket"?
- who decides on each play whether there was a "clean pocket"
- what is the definition of "big time throw" and who established the definition
- who decides on each play whether there was a "big time throw"?

Here's another "advanced metric" which is neither advanced nor a metric being used to justify some horseshit list.
Any metric that has Brees, Mahomes, Luck, Rivers,  
Jim in Hoboken : 1/2/2019 12:57 pm : link
and Brady in the top 5 must be idiotic. I mean, who the fuck would rank those clowns ahead of Eli?

I am not saying PFF is gospel, or all the other websites out there are terrific, I am just reacting to the uproar here. You can have your opinion of Eli, but if you are going to criticize every publication that treats Eli unfavorably, you have a lot of work to do.
RE: Any metric that has Brees, Mahomes, Luck, Rivers,  
HomerJones45 : 1/2/2019 1:08 pm : link
In comment 14244347 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
and Brady in the top 5 must be idiotic. I mean, who the fuck would rank those clowns ahead of Eli?

I am not saying PFF is gospel, or all the other websites out there are terrific, I am just reacting to the uproar here. You can have your opinion of Eli, but if you are going to criticize every publication that treats Eli unfavorably, you have a lot of work to do.
Eli basically had the same year as Brady- completion percentage, yards, yards per attempt, int's. Only differences? Brady had 8 more td's and Eli got sacked over twice as much. So, if you put Brady in the top 5, you think Eli should be 20 spots lower over 8 td passes?
Gene killing it on this  
Big Blue '56 : 1/2/2019 1:09 pm : link
thread
After careful study  
HomerJones45 : 1/2/2019 1:23 pm : link
I am issuing a new advanced metric: "Biggest QB Pussy index"ģ. This is the ratio of running attempts v. passing attempts the ball (which is what the qb is supposed to do). The higher the ratio, the bigger the pussy.

Worst NFL qb's according to the Biggest Qb Pussy indexģ:

- Lamar Jackson
- Cam Newton
- DeSean Watson
- Josh Allen
- Dak Prescott
- Mitchell Trubisky


Best qb's:
- Eli Manning
- Phillip Rivers
- Tom Brady
- Derek Carr
- Matt Stafford
- Case Keenum
- Ben Roethlisberger
- Drew Brees

According to this advanced metric, Eli Manning is the #1 qb in football. I am pleased to bring all of you this advanced metric.
What amazes me, is that despite  
rocco8112 : 1/2/2019 1:24 pm : link
how old or washed up Eli is, as the season went on it was the passing game that once again became the strength of the team.

The kicker is pretty good too.

The defense is still a sad joke, and there is no consistent running game to speak of. Barkley is the tits and he is a big play machine, but he also catches a lot of passes and no one can honestly say this this team had an effective running game even with his amazing talents.

So, damning with feint praise as it may be, old man Eli and the passing game became the strength of this shit team.

Some other stuff

Eli needs complimentary pieces, well yes, he is a pocket QB who will operate the offense and distribute the ball. When Eli is at his best he is hot and distributing the ball to everyone. Directing the run game and hitting off play action. This is bad? This is called a complete offense and it forces teams to defend the whole field and when paired with a real run game will also wear down the opposition physically, atritting the pass rush and eating clock. There were glimpses of this type of complete offense this year at times. Sure it is not consistent enough, but they went through many different line combos and there is no consistent run game. I read on here that everyone wants a scrambler who will run around and make plays outside the pocket. Like a Madden video-game, sure this can win sometimes and looks good on the highlight reel, but it is the complete offense that will allow you to win it all and those running QB'S always get hurt.

Then there is the "miracle" of 2016. I put less of the result on McAdoo's in game decisions and more on the 100 million dollar Cinderella defnese. For a time that D was legit in 2016. I fell in love with that D. Why? They were getting stops, big stops that led to wins. I don't care who the opposition was it was so long since this team had a D I was fucking giddy. Week 17 DRC picked Cousins and I was going nuts. You couldn't run on that D and they made plays to win. If the Giants had D like that in 2015 they may have won it all


But, I call it the Cinderella D. It turned into a huge rotting pumpkin in Green Bay
The Packers hit that hail mary and it was all she wrote. That defense literally never performed well again in that game or the next season where players quit and got benched etc. Now, that whole investment may be washed down the toilet this season. Snacks is gone and it is no lock OV or Jenkins won't be cut.

While on the subject of that playoff game. Eli was money and it was the boat crew that let him down. Eli even hit some scrub on a deep post to get the Giants back in it, but the defnese had already turned into the pumpkin. With a real coach and some big time clutch play from the all universe WR, who knows what would have happened.

To wrap up, Eli may be the 28th ranked, 40th ranked, unranked or whatever QB. He is old and this may be the end, but this narrative that he has held this team back since 2013 or that he is so old and shitty now that he needs an Access - A - Ride to get to and from the sideline is bullshit.

Giants last four games the team scored 40, 0, 27 and 35 points. The zero is bad, but the other production is good. One an ass kicking and the other two against playoff teams. This was all done with the all universe WR getting IV's and nursing an injury. Not bad when you think about it.
RE: RE: Any metric that has Brees, Mahomes, Luck, Rivers,  
allstarjim : 1/2/2019 1:46 pm : link
In comment 14244371 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 14244347 Jim in Hoboken said:


Quote:


and Brady in the top 5 must be idiotic. I mean, who the fuck would rank those clowns ahead of Eli?

I am not saying PFF is gospel, or all the other websites out there are terrific, I am just reacting to the uproar here. You can have your opinion of Eli, but if you are going to criticize every publication that treats Eli unfavorably, you have a lot of work to do.

Eli basically had the same year as Brady- completion percentage, yards, yards per attempt, int's. Only differences? Brady had 8 more td's and Eli got sacked over twice as much. So, if you put Brady in the top 5, you think Eli should be 20 spots lower over 8 td passes?


8 TD passes are a lot, and QBs aren't blameless for all sacks. A portion of all sacks on any QB are the fault of the QB.

I'm not saying your overall point about where Eli is ranked is valid or invalid, just that your defense of your argument doesn't really help your case.
I keep hearing the word "Data" thrown around  
JOrthman : 1/2/2019 1:48 pm : link
It doesn't mean you some of you think it does...facts and statistics collected together for reference or analysis...

There "version" of data is subjective opinions on watching plays,
Even if you scoff at PFF  
uther99 : 1/2/2019 2:02 pm : link
which many do, Eli is rated around 23rd by various other sources like NFL, ESPN, etc.
If this was reversed...  
bw in dc : 1/2/2019 2:07 pm : link
and PFF had Eli in the top five, Eli's Army would be doing cartwheels and espousing the genius of PFF.

Instead, they attack their new enemy and spin what a sneaky good year Eli had.

BBI = Jints Central.
There are also other metrics than the widely used  
allstarjim : 1/2/2019 2:08 pm : link
performance stats for QBs like yards per attempt, TD-INT, passing yards.

One area that the Giants have struggled in going back for several seasons now is red zone efficiency. On trips to the red zone, the Giants ranked 27th in the NFL this year in capping off those trips with a TD. They were 26th last year, 22nd the year before, 29th in 2015. The last time they were strong in this area was 2014, where they finished 8th, capping those trips off with pay dirt on nearly 60% of those drives. This year, that same percentage would've ranked 17th...that should tell you that offenses are getting much more efficient. Some of that is rules changes, some of that are offensive innovations. Pittsburgh led the NFL in this area with 73.47%, Kansas City was second.

New England was 15th with 59.65% of their red zone trips ending in a TD. They were 3rd last year, 10th in 2016, 4th in 2015, 5th in 2014...when you talk about differences between Tom Brady and Eli Manning, you look at how they finish drives, it's no contest.

Another is 3rd Down conversion %. The Giants were 22nd in the NFL this season. Here's how they ranked in previous seasons:

2017: 30th
2016: 30th
2015: 20th
2014: 10th
2013: 30th
2012: 11th
2011: 12th

Here's Brady's Patriots:

2018: 13th
2017: 8th
2016: 2nd
2015: 15th
2014: 4th
2013: 12th
2012: 1st
2011: 4th

So, PFF evaluates the plays and how the player's performance impacts the game from a situational standpoint.

I'm not saying PFF is the end all be all, but the truth is, for the last 6 years or so, with the exception of 2014 under Tom Coughlin and OBJ's rookie year, the offense hasn't been very efficient relative to the rest of the NFL. They need to improve their efficiency in scoring and cash in more often with TDs in the red zone.
RE: If this was reversed...  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14244487 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and PFF had Eli in the top five, Eli's Army would be doing cartwheels and espousing the genius of PFF.

Instead, they attack their new enemy and spin what a sneaky good year Eli had.

BBI = Jints Central.


I would not be one of them. I have hated these kind of statistics even when they favored Eli.
RE: If this was reversed...  
jeff57 : 1/2/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14244487 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and PFF had Eli in the top five, Eli's Army would be doing cartwheels and espousing the genius of PFF.



True.
RE: RE: Any metric that has Brees, Mahomes, Luck, Rivers,  
rsjem1979 : 1/2/2019 2:26 pm : link
In comment 14244371 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 14244347 Jim in Hoboken said:


Quote:


and Brady in the top 5 must be idiotic. I mean, who the fuck would rank those clowns ahead of Eli?

I am not saying PFF is gospel, or all the other websites out there are terrific, I am just reacting to the uproar here. You can have your opinion of Eli, but if you are going to criticize every publication that treats Eli unfavorably, you have a lot of work to do.

Eli basically had the same year as Brady- completion percentage, yards, yards per attempt, int's. Only differences? Brady had 8 more td's and Eli got sacked over twice as much. So, if you put Brady in the top 5, you think Eli should be 20 spots lower over 8 td passes?


An 8 touchdown difference is not insignificant over 16 games. Brady's 29 TD passes is 38% more than Eli Manning's 21.
RE: I don't know about the stats  
DavidinBMNY : 1/2/2019 2:36 pm : link
In comment 14244107 Go Terps said:
Quote:
But to my eye Eli had a bad year. Bad in the red zone, bad on third down, lots of garbage time check downs, and some clock management errors.

I don't know why it's hard for people to accept the possibility that he's either done or almost done. He's thrown almost 8,000 passes in the NFL...for scale, over 3300 more passes than Phil Simms.

Very few people have played as many snaps as he has. Can he still play at a high level on a good team? Probably. But this team is shit, and he can't carry it anymore like he did in 2011. That was a long time and a lot of snaps ago.

It's over. It's been effectively over since about 2013, when this organization started to completely go off the rails.
That interception in the End Zone vs. Dallas has to be on Manning doesn't it?
RE: If this was reversed...  
JOrthman : 1/2/2019 2:38 pm : link
In comment 14244487 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and PFF had Eli in the top five, Eli's Army would be doing cartwheels and espousing the genius of PFF.

Instead, they attack their new enemy and spin what a sneaky good year Eli had.

BBI = Jints Central.


I wouldn't...Stats and facts are what they are. Now, you can analyze and debate the reason for those stats, but they are what they are. I hate when people use sites like these.
PFF..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 3:02 pm : link
has been debunked here on a variety of topics.

Awareness is really low with some posters.
RE: PFF..  
allstarjim : 1/2/2019 3:04 pm : link
In comment 14244643 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
has been debunked here on a variety of topics.

Awareness is really low with some posters.


It's a wonder why then NFL teams continue to pay for their services. You should tell them they are getting robbed.
They don't pay..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 3:09 pm : link
for the rating services. You often bring this up and I'm not really sure why.

Teams pay for their non-subjective services. Stat collection.

That's completely different.

there isn't a single team that uses PFF for qualitative analysis.
ELi  
Thegratefulhead : 1/2/2019 3:14 pm : link
We should all understand that there are big moments in football games. Moments that change the course of games. Some QBs are better in those spots than others. I am a huge Eli Manning fan and have been a very vocal supporter of him during his career.

There was a stretch of his career that I argued he was a top 5 QB in the NFL, and there was no one I would rather have in a big spot. Some of these new analytics try to account for these moments. They are imperfect, but they do paint a picture that makes sense to me regarding Eli based on his play.

I argued that his completion percentage or QB rating didnít take into the fact that he was the mad bomber. His yds/a and air yards were high. The fact that he threw with intermediate and deep with frequency and efficiency, opened up the run game for the Giants. He was a BIG part of the reason they had some awesome running attacks.
He is now one of the big reasons they do not.
He is not throwing deep with frequency or efficiency. This allows defenses to sell out to stop the run. His stats should be better just because Barkley is on the field. 2011 Eli Manning would have thrown for over 5k yards and over 40 TDs in this offense, the way they are defending the run against us.
When I watch Eli, I see a QB that gets worse on big spots. It hurts for me to watch it, because I understand how great he was. I get it, Eli has had some good games. When he has plenty of time, a lead or the running game is working, he reminds of who he used be.

This is where you are confused. He used to play like that when we NEEDED him to, regardless of pressure (2007&2011 title runs) All NFL QBS(even practice squad) can perform when circumstances are ideal(Mike Flynn) This is NOT how we should evaluate franchise QBs. When the moments get bigger does the QB carry the team? Does he make those around him better? AS the moments get bigger Eli gets smaller, it sucks.
RE: They don't pay..  
allstarjim : 1/2/2019 3:23 pm : link
In comment 14244656 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
for the rating services. You often bring this up and I'm not really sure why.

Teams pay for their non-subjective services. Stat collection.

That's completely different.

there isn't a single team that uses PFF for qualitative analysis.


The qualitative analysis isn't based on their stat collection? I think it is.
RE: RE: They don't pay..  
YAJ2112 : 1/2/2019 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14244691 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14244656 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


for the rating services. You often bring this up and I'm not really sure why.

Teams pay for their non-subjective services. Stat collection.

That's completely different.

there isn't a single team that uses PFF for qualitative analysis.



The qualitative analysis isn't based on their stat collection? I think it is.


Jim, teams pay for PFF to gather stats around formations, snap counts and personnel packages. They don't pay for them to grade the players performance on each play, which is what all of the PFF rankings are based on.
Teams pay..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 3:27 pm : link
for snap counts. For formation counts. For game splits. All based on stat collection.

Let me reiterate - no team is paying for their player rating services.
These guys are Nerds and Turds  
DonnieD89 : 1/2/2019 3:40 pm : link
Numbers don't win championships. It's about good "football players". I never attempt to go into their website.
I guess I was mistaken then  
allstarjim : 1/2/2019 3:43 pm : link
So I apologize to Fatman for the snarky response.

However, I always believe in evaluating an argument based on its merits or lack thereof. I don't believe in poison the well fallacial arguments.

I don't even think I agree with PFF here, but I also know I don't have enough information to dispute them substantially.
RE: If this was reversed...  
HomerJones45 : 1/2/2019 4:21 pm : link
In comment 14244487 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and PFF had Eli in the top five, Eli's Army would be doing cartwheels and espousing the genius of PFF.

Instead, they attack their new enemy and spin what a sneaky good year Eli had.

BBI = Jints Central.
Jints Central- moi??!

Understand, no one is advocating keeping Manning until time stands still. Let him play out his contract, fine. Spend a #1 on a qb and not re-sign Manning, no problem. Turning the team over to never-will-be Lauletta or throwing money away on someone else's failed #1 pick, problem.
Andy effin' Dalton?  
clatterbuck : 1/2/2019 4:27 pm : link
Flacco...Keenum...Mariotta...Winston...Mullins? Gimme the proverbial break. Should have stopped looking after Dalton.
RE: RE: If this was reversed...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/2/2019 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14244507 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14244487 bw in dc said:


Quote:


and PFF had Eli in the top five, Eli's Army would be doing cartwheels and espousing the genius of PFF.

Instead, they attack their new enemy and spin what a sneaky good year Eli had.

BBI = Jints Central.



I would not be one of them. I have hated these kind of statistics even when they favored Eli.

Fixed it for you.
RE: RE: RE: If this was reversed...  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 5:19 pm : link
In comment 14244799 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14244507 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14244487 bw in dc said:


Quote:


and PFF had Eli in the top five, Eli's Army would be doing cartwheels and espousing the genius of PFF.

Instead, they attack their new enemy and spin what a sneaky good year Eli had.

BBI = Jints Central.



I would not be one of them. I have hated these kind of statistics even when they favored Eli.


Fixed it for you.


Fuck off. I know being an asshole is your thing... but maybe you donít be a dick to start the year. I know itís asking a lot.
Russell Wilson at #7  
NINEster : 1/2/2019 6:52 pm : link
is the biggest criticism of this QB ranking list.

Way too high.

Let's see if he can throw for over 100 yards this time against Rod Marinelli's defense in Dallas.
RE: RE: RE: RE: If this was reversed...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/3/2019 7:18 am : link
In comment 14244856 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14244799 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14244507 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14244487 bw in dc said:


Quote:


and PFF had Eli in the top five, Eli's Army would be doing cartwheels and espousing the genius of PFF.

Instead, they attack their new enemy and spin what a sneaky good year Eli had.

BBI = Jints Central.



I would not be one of them. I have hated these kind of statistics even when they favored Eli.


Fixed it for you.



Fuck off. I know being an asshole is your thing... but maybe you donít be a dick to start the year. I know itís asking a lot.

Lighten up, Francis. You do legitimately seem to hate statistics in general.

But as long as we're leaning into our respective reputations, I guess the overly sensitive whining is on brand for you.
Lol  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 7:37 am : link
Whatever you say buddy. God bless you.
RE: RE: Put Flowers and Pugh on the line of any other QB  
djm : 1/3/2019 10:42 am : link
In comment 14244240 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14244208 since1925 said:


Quote:


And watch them regress. Duh. The Giants have had garbage up front for years. The miracle was the 11-5 season. How was that possible?



That was McAdoo doing a great job of game day coaching. Of the 11 wins, 9 of them came down to the last possession. In several of them the opposing team had the ball with the chance to win and either ran out of time or were unable to get in position to score. You can do a lot with a solid defense and excellent kicking game. Brad Wing and Dwayne Harris were phenomenal that year.

McAdoo had an argument to be in coach of the year consideration in 2016. He also had a great game plan going into the playoff game in Green Bay, and his players let him down.


Youíre serious.

Mcadoo didnít get in the way in 2016. If we had a better HC that knew how to run an offense and maximize its talents we would have been even better that season. Maybe not in terms of wins and losses but better overall. That team had no staying power. They earned their 11 wins but shurmur would have won that year too. Mcadoo didnít break any ground on clock mgmt cmon.
The Giants..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 10:49 am : link
were 5th in total team health in 2016.

The only season they have finished above 20th since 2010.

That's why we made the playoffs, and I don't think I'd be too offbase saying it was the sole reason.
RE: The Giants..  
allstarjim : 1/3/2019 1:04 pm : link
In comment 14245821 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
were 5th in total team health in 2016.

The only season they have finished above 20th since 2010.

That's why we made the playoffs, and I don't think I'd be too offbase saying it was the sole reason.


The defense was remarkable that year. The defense was Super Bowl caliber. Janoris Jenkins probably had his best year as a pro. Landon Collins was a DPOY candidate. Snacks was dominant. Even JPP had a pretty good year in the 12 games he played. Vernon got a lot of pressure on the QB.

The defense that year allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL, and the offense scored the 26th most in the NFL. People seem to not remember that the offense was still a dumpster fire that year, and the defense just carried the Giants. Ben McAdoo came in as an offensive coach and was the play-caller. You know who had a great year that year? Coach Spags. McAdoo sucked because his side of the ball sucked, his offense sucked. Yeah, I understand, he was the head coach and gets credit for everything, but in reality, he didn't really have much of anything to do with the defense, and he was calling the offense, and that side of the ball was bad.
RE: RE: The Giants..  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 1:09 pm : link
In comment 14246041 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14245821 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


were 5th in total team health in 2016.

The only season they have finished above 20th since 2010.

That's why we made the playoffs, and I don't think I'd be too offbase saying it was the sole reason.



The defense was remarkable that year. The defense was Super Bowl caliber. Janoris Jenkins probably had his best year as a pro. Landon Collins was a DPOY candidate. Snacks was dominant. Even JPP had a pretty good year in the 12 games he played. Vernon got a lot of pressure on the QB.

The defense that year allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL, and the offense scored the 26th most in the NFL. People seem to not remember that the offense was still a dumpster fire that year, and the defense just carried the Giants. Ben McAdoo came in as an offensive coach and was the play-caller. You know who had a great year that year? Coach Spags. McAdoo sucked because his side of the ball sucked, his offense sucked. Yeah, I understand, he was the head coach and gets credit for everything, but in reality, he didn't really have much of anything to do with the defense, and he was calling the offense, and that side of the ball was bad.


A lot of you said is spot on. A lot of people forget that on that roster we had...

Jennings and Perkins as RBs - Jennings was out of the league the next year and perkins was a stiff and hasnt playe in a year and a 1/2.

Tye and Donnell were our TEs - beither played in 2017 outside a toek nappearence.

Cruz was our number 2 and out of the league the next year.

Odell literally carried the offense.
RE: RE: RE: The Giants..  
MetsAreBack : 1/3/2019 1:47 pm : link
In comment 14246046 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14246041 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 14245821 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


were 5th in total team health in 2016.

The only season they have finished above 20th since 2010.

That's why we made the playoffs, and I don't think I'd be too offbase saying it was the sole reason.



The defense was remarkable that year. The defense was Super Bowl caliber. Janoris Jenkins probably had his best year as a pro. Landon Collins was a DPOY candidate. Snacks was dominant. Even JPP had a pretty good year in the 12 games he played. Vernon got a lot of pressure on the QB.

The defense that year allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL, and the offense scored the 26th most in the NFL. People seem to not remember that the offense was still a dumpster fire that year, and the defense just carried the Giants. Ben McAdoo came in as an offensive coach and was the play-caller. You know who had a great year that year? Coach Spags. McAdoo sucked because his side of the ball sucked, his offense sucked. Yeah, I understand, he was the head coach and gets credit for everything, but in reality, he didn't really have much of anything to do with the defense, and he was calling the offense, and that side of the ball was bad.



A lot of you said is spot on. A lot of people forget that on that roster we had...

Jennings and Perkins as RBs - Jennings was out of the league the next year and perkins was a stiff and hasnt playe in a year and a 1/2.

Tye and Donnell were our TEs - beither played in 2017 outside a toek nappearence.

Cruz was our number 2 and out of the league the next year.

Odell literally carried the offense.


Sterling Shepard was the #2.

Targets:
SS 105, Cruz 72

Yards:
SS 683, Cruz 586

A high second round choice with 2300 yards in 3 years, this continued narrative that he sucks is one of the great myths that continues to get spewed here.

RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants..  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14246114 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14246046 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14246041 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 14245821 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


were 5th in total team health in 2016.

The only season they have finished above 20th since 2010.

That's why we made the playoffs, and I don't think I'd be too offbase saying it was the sole reason.



The defense was remarkable that year. The defense was Super Bowl caliber. Janoris Jenkins probably had his best year as a pro. Landon Collins was a DPOY candidate. Snacks was dominant. Even JPP had a pretty good year in the 12 games he played. Vernon got a lot of pressure on the QB.

The defense that year allowed the 2nd fewest in the NFL, and the offense scored the 26th most in the NFL. People seem to not remember that the offense was still a dumpster fire that year, and the defense just carried the Giants. Ben McAdoo came in as an offensive coach and was the play-caller. You know who had a great year that year? Coach Spags. McAdoo sucked because his side of the ball sucked, his offense sucked. Yeah, I understand, he was the head coach and gets credit for everything, but in reality, he didn't really have much of anything to do with the defense, and he was calling the offense, and that side of the ball was bad.



A lot of you said is spot on. A lot of people forget that on that roster we had...

Jennings and Perkins as RBs - Jennings was out of the league the next year and perkins was a stiff and hasnt playe in a year and a 1/2.

Tye and Donnell were our TEs - beither played in 2017 outside a toek nappearence.

Cruz was our number 2 and out of the league the next year.

Odell literally carried the offense.



Sterling Shepard was the #2.

Targets:
SS 105, Cruz 72

Yards:
SS 683, Cruz 586

A high second round choice with 2300 yards in 3 years, this continued narrative that he sucks is one of the great myths that continues to get spewed here.


Semantics. Cruz played the outside, Shep the inside.

And Ruben Randle's last 3 years (at which point he was younger than SS.) produced 2300 yards. Whoopie?
Randle's play was more characterized  
MetsAreBack : 1/3/2019 1:56 pm : link
by his wrong reads and bone headed decision making.... then about catching balls when they came his way and he was actually in the right spot.

760 yards/year in first 3 years is pretty good. Just FYI.
ok  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 1:57 pm : link
...
Not sure if you're being facetious...  
MetsAreBack : 1/3/2019 2:16 pm : link
this notion that Eli hasn't had studs to throw to... usually multiples.. is such a crock of shit.

Not sure why you go so out of your way to defend him all the time. I do hope he or his agent is paying you for this.

I do agree that his offensive line has been shit for going on a decade now... which is of course a huge deal for a passing game... and to his credit, most QBs would have retired or had no mental toughness at all by now (e.g., David Carr). I know Ben would have retired.
RE: Not sure if you're being facetious...  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14246160 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
this notion that Eli hasn't had studs to throw to... usually multiples.. is such a crock of shit.

.


Did I once say this?

Didnt I just say in this very thread that Odell carried the 2016 offense? Please lets not make things up for sake of an argument please.
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