But I've seen it posted numerous times about "garbage TD's and yards" as if they actually existed. One of the biggest differences between last year and this year is that we had almost 75% fewer minutes one would consider "garbage time".
It is almost like people just go with a statement and stay with it even if it isn't rooted in reality.
I went back and looked at the schedule (W/L) and I saw three or four games where they got cheap points in garbage time.
All facts aside, my gut says they still need to continue to invest in the OL even if that means that we, as fans, suffer through some early season struggles.
But I've seen it posted numerous times about "garbage TD's and yards" as if they actually existed. One of the biggest differences between last year and this year is that we had almost 75% fewer minutes one would consider "garbage time".
It is almost like people just go with a statement and stay with it even if it isn't rooted in reality.
What is your take on the state of the franchise? QB? I know you talk about quick turnarounds in the NFL and it is based in fact. Happens every year. Do you think we have the correct coach/GM in place to facilitate a quick turnaround? When you look at these quick turnarounds, are there circumstances that connect them? Young QB? dominant lines? running games? that you see us having or getting? Basically, I am looking for Fat Man's state of the franchise, post season, while the games are still fresh in your mind.
oh and BW is still a jerk with his "Jints central", like he knows better.
Anyone who thinks the draft reality is STRICTLY BPA I've got a bridge to sell you. Just look at the last draft. RB,OL, DL, OLB, backup QB, DL. ALL needed positions. So don't for a second think if they have a QB valued at 6 they won't take him to get another player with a slightly less grade. Gettleman is not stupid. He knows he needs a new QB at some point. He's just not going to force the issue.
.
All GM's say BPA, but some of us know better than that.
It is SOP aka, standard operating procedure...
What is your take on the state of the franchise? QB? I know you talk about quick turnarounds in the NFL and it is based in fact. Happens every year. Do you think we have the correct coach/GM in place to facilitate a quick turnaround? When you look at these quick turnarounds, are there circumstances that connect them? Young QB? dominant lines? running games? that you see us having or getting? Basically, I am looking for Fat Man's state of the franchise, post season, while the games are still fresh in your mind.
I don't know if we have the right HC in place. I can't tell how good he is at in-game adjustments and the playcalling and time management aspects were shaky this year. I'm fairly confident we have the right GM in place as a guy who has shown the ability to try and upgrade weak areas and better yet - has moved on from players who didn't work out. Plus given his past, he'll make the difficult decisions on vets.
Eli isn't the QB to lead this team in the future. I wouldn't have a problem with him being here next year as we continue to fortify weak areas and then prepare for his successor, but he cannot be signed to a new contract.
I think eli is adequate enough to QB a playoff team, but he needs a strong D and an adequate OL to do that - basically most NFL QB's can thrive in those two conditions.
I think we are two OL players away from being solid, a pass rusher away and one or two safeties away (depending on Collins status) from being a playoff team.
I would liken us a bit to where the Bears were a couple of years ago. They added strength to the lines, added a pass rusher and they are right in the thick of things.
Bottom line, I think Gettleman will get us the pieces to compete - I'm not fully behind Shurmur yet, and the QB situation is something I hope we don't force, yet are able to address in 2020, if not next year.
ask their asinine, loaded, BS, click-bait questions.
Steve, Pat, Jordaaan, Gary. All the assholes asking the complete asshole questions, and DG telling them all -- very politely: GFY.
I dunno... one asked a reasonable question about whether winning against 3 backup QBs late in the season might diminish the magnitude of the second-half improvement they keep touting, and Gettleman called the question "offensive."
What is your take on the state of the franchise? QB? I know you talk about quick turnarounds in the NFL and it is based in fact. Happens every year. Do you think we have the correct coach/GM in place to facilitate a quick turnaround? When you look at these quick turnarounds, are there circumstances that connect them? Young QB? dominant lines? running games? that you see us having or getting? Basically, I am looking for Fat Man's state of the franchise, post season, while the games are still fresh in your mind.
I don't know if we have the right HC in place. I can't tell how good he is at in-game adjustments and the playcalling and time management aspects were shaky this year. I'm fairly confident we have the right GM in place as a guy who has shown the ability to try and upgrade weak areas and better yet - has moved on from players who didn't work out. Plus given his past, he'll make the difficult decisions on vets.
Eli isn't the QB to lead this team in the future. I wouldn't have a problem with him being here next year as we continue to fortify weak areas and then prepare for his successor, but he cannot be signed to a new contract.
I think eli is adequate enough to QB a playoff team, but he needs a strong D and an adequate OL to do that - basically most NFL QB's can thrive in those two conditions.
I think we are two OL players away from being solid, a pass rusher away and one or two safeties away (depending on Collins status) from being a playoff team.
I would liken us a bit to where the Bears were a couple of years ago. They added strength to the lines, added a pass rusher and they are right in the thick of things.
Bottom line, I think Gettleman will get us the pieces to compete - I'm not fully behind Shurmur yet, and the QB situation is something I hope we don't force, yet are able to address in 2020, if not next year.
Thank you for the answer. I cannot disagree with any of that. I think Shurmur's game plan/adjustments are OK. He got better as he learned his personnel. I was encouraged by how they used Engram at the end of the year. I am not certain if he is strong enough to deal with the very difficult themes this team will have to deal with. I think dealing with a beloved 2 SB champion& MVP, highly paid and declining QB in NY might be the most difficult coaching situation in all of sports. Throw in a WR with a ton of guaranteed money that is tough spot for a coach.
santacruzom - Check out Gettleman's answer to a question below Â
First of all, I don’t want to hear about ‘backup quarterbacks’, ‘we played backup quarterbacks’. We went 4-4 in the second half. Here’s what I would say to you, when you’re bringing in and installing a new offense, you’re looking at four to six weeks before everybody’s really on the same page, and it’s really the outlier, it’s six.
Apparently Gettleman thinks he can have it both ways. If you can't note a win over a backup QB, it seems to me like you can't write off a bunch of losses as "installing a new offense".
When the hire was announced I was on record here as liking it. But every time Gettleman opens his mouth the hire gets worse in my eyes.
One sidenote...around the time Gettleman was hired there was a poster (I don't remember who) that said Gettleman was a jerk at some event or program hosted by the Giants. Specifically, he was the only member of the Giants that insisted on being called "Mr. Gettleman". I noticed that Eli, during his call with Francesa, referred to him as "Mr. Gettleman".
The biggest concern I have is referrring to 3-13 Â
when only 12 players are left from that roster and you flushed money on some vets that were apparently brought in for reasons other than their play on the field ceases to really hold water.
Unthinkable. I also found the comments about culture laughable, as:
1. It's something that's difficult to disprove from the outside
2. He had to fine his star WR for throwing his QB under the bus in an interview
3. Shurmur used one of his QBs as a joke to take a shot at the media
4. The effort by some players in 2 of the last 3 games (both at home) was visibly open to question. The entire team looked disinterested in the rain against Tennessee, and the secondary's effort was pathetic against Dallas.
I can't recall a team losing the last 3 games of the season and talking so much about how they improved.
RE: santacruzom - Check out Gettleman's answer to a question below Â
First of all, I don’t want to hear about ‘backup quarterbacks’, ‘we played backup quarterbacks’. We went 4-4 in the second half. Here’s what I would say to you, when you’re bringing in and installing a new offense, you’re looking at four to six weeks before everybody’s really on the same page, and it’s really the outlier, it’s six.
Apparently Gettleman thinks he can have it both ways. If you can't note a win over a backup QB, it seems to me like you can't write off a bunch of losses as "installing a new offense".
Yeah, I noticed that as well.
In general, in my own experience, the sort of people who are quick to dismiss various conditions that may have contributed to their success, while also invoking other conditions that may have contributed to their hardships... well, those people tend not to be too productive.
It sounds like that's what any reference to last year is.
Shurmur wasn't here for that, that roster has been blown up. Everyone here now is who they wanted to be here. This is on them, not 2017. And certainly not when all anyone wanted to talk about in July was winning. The conversation has become 'building' and 'culture'.
"hey don't look at me, it was a mess when we got here" is something else.
IMO, the new regime's philosophy was quite simple. Evaluate the roster and distinguish assets from liabilities, evaluate the strengths of the draft and FA market and align with the needs of the roster.
In year one, the roster "needed" a culture change and attention to both fronts. The addition and subtraction of players designed to address the culture has been discussed ad nauseum, but I will say this, they were able to receive some draft capitol from the purge. Both fronts received a combination of resources from FA and the draft. By year's end, it's hard to argue against the fact that improvement occurred on the offensive front and 4 young DL/ER all got valuable PT and displayed flashes of ability. In other words, 2018 was a success in adding resources to both fronts going forward.
In addition, they added an offensive playmaker that broke records and was among the league leaders in big plays. Forget what position that player plays for a moment and just focus on the actual "plays" that player made. Nearly all coaches will agree, give them someone who can make plays above the Xs and Os. Well they got one that accounted for over 2000 yards. Huge resource secured.
Now, Year 2: Same philosophy. Evaluate assets/ liabilities, evaluate available resources, align. DG confirmed what we all saw, both fronts still require additional pieces. Fortunately, early reviews suggest this draft is strongest in the trenches. What will be interesting is where DG looks for pass rush help. Historically speaking, rookies do not provide immediate pass rush help. Mack, Bosa, Chubb...these guys are outliers. Therefore either your current youngsters make a year 2/3 jump and provide it, or you're into FA for it. My guess is that DG will do the same as this year and hit up both the draft and FA.
IMO, Vernon's fate and how much they spend to secure a proven pass rusher will be your indicator on their true assessment of this roster, its ability to compete in 2019, and their potential #6 targets. Of course this also depends on what happens with the QB.
Re: QB: IMO what we've seen and heard is all posturing. Eli is the best option for 2019 success. The FO wants him to take a pay cut. Will he do it? I hope so. I think all Giants fans should want to see Eli(at a lowered rate), Barkley, OBJ, Collins, Jackrabbit, and bolstered fronts(with Eli's $) competing in 2019. It's the ultimate win win and last hurrah for an all time great.
"He can still make all the NFL throws, he's still got it.... that part of it." To me he recognizes Eli's inability this year to go through his progressions. He was constantly staring down his receivers... he doesn't even turn his head anymore.
Think DG would like to resturcture ELI's compensation to Â
get some help for the team next year. He seemed to indicate how much the team improved in the second half offensively. We need some more help in 2019 through the draft and FA. Extral cash help temporarily, from a ELI restructure could help us do that. Peyton took a pay cut to help his team, so can ELI, if he wants to win again now. Also a guarantee he retires as a Giant would help as well.
how this team is going in the right direction when they have exactly one premium player at a premium position.
You win with Qbs, WRs, Pass rush, oline, and corners. The Giants have holes at all of those positions
Exactly -- and a number of the holes are occupied by free agents. It's not like there a bunch of young ascending guys in place on cheap contracts you hope get better.
The Giants are going to end up penciling in a bunch of replacement level guys again because the economics and supply will force it.
Just look at the secondary. They have one clear cut starting level palyer under contract.
RE: The biggest concern I have is referrring to 3-13 Â
Shurmur has said “we are trying to move off 3-13” at least a half dozen times.
Imagine Bill Belichick referencing the 2017 season in a press confrence this year? I just hate the mentality to bring up 3-13.
Did you think the shithouse was going to be cleaned up in one season? This was a very bad team with an attitude problem. I don't think some of you realize the extent of the train wreck the three stooges in the coaching box and the FO made of this team, and I doubt any of them will ever again be given a position of responsibility with an NFL team.
One season took from "very bad with an attitude problem" to "bad". (although not buying for a second that poppycock about bringing guys in solely for their aura of good feelings.) Maybe one more off-season will take them to mediocre and then you have something to launch.
The Giants have a franchise QB they are going to be stuck in neutral.
What if they take a QB YOU don’t think is a franchise QB? If they draft Haskins, will that shut you up? Or will you continue to bitch because he’s not the guy you want? What about if they draft Jones? Do we get a reprieve from your constant whining if they draft him? Or does your incessant comply just get redirected to them taking the wrong guy before we see what he can do? If you’d rather wait until 2020 to take the QB, are you going to spend yet another entire season bitching and complaining about not having a “franchise QB” yet? Even though they did exaywhat you wanted and passed on the 2019 QBs?
and absorb the parts about not reaching in the draft. Draft the best players and build the puzzle.
Exactly. I am not expecting a QB. It sounds like many on BBI are. Not unless Gettleman is 100% sure he values that pick where we pick him. Unless something drastically changes we will not be picking a QB. Personally I want BPA.
I think Haskins is being overrated for now.
RE: RE: The biggest concern I have is referrring to 3-13 Â
Shurmur has said “we are trying to move off 3-13” at least a half dozen times.
Imagine Bill Belichick referencing the 2017 season in a press confrence this year? I just hate the mentality to bring up 3-13.
Did you think the shithouse was going to be cleaned up in one season? This was a very bad team with an attitude problem. I don't think some of you realize the extent of the train wreck the three stooges in the coaching box and the FO made of this team, and I doubt any of them will ever again be given a position of responsibility with an NFL team.
One season took from "very bad with an attitude problem" to "bad". (although not buying for a second that poppycock about bringing guys in solely for their aura of good feelings.) Maybe one more off-season will take them to mediocre and then you have something to launch.
What you're saying wasn't what DG was saying before the season started -- here is what he said--
I copied the below quote from BrettNYG10 on the thread called “Remember When Everyone Said Defer to DG Because He's a GM.”
He posted the following quote that looks like came from DG:
“I've seen someone told one of the reporters that I'm in a tear-down," Gettleman said. at the time "We're not spending $62 million on Nate Solder or signing Patrick Omameh and we're not trading for Alec Ogletree if we're in a tear-down. I'm doing that. We've evaluated the roster. We've developed a plan moving forward. It's about winning now. Who wants to lose? I don't."
But I've seen it posted numerous times about "garbage TD's and yards" as if they actually existed. One of the biggest differences between last year and this year is that we had almost 75% fewer minutes one would consider "garbage time".
It is almost like people just go with a statement and stay with it even if it isn't rooted in reality.
All facts aside, my gut says they still need to continue to invest in the OL even if that means that we, as fans, suffer through some early season struggles.
Davis Webb looked great against air.
What player doesnt look great in non-game situations? Then only thing you can know for sure is that the player understands the playbook.
But I've seen it posted numerous times about "garbage TD's and yards" as if they actually existed. One of the biggest differences between last year and this year is that we had almost 75% fewer minutes one would consider "garbage time".
It is almost like people just go with a statement and stay with it even if it isn't rooted in reality.
Anyone who thinks the draft reality is STRICTLY BPA I've got a bridge to sell you. Just look at the last draft. RB,OL, DL, OLB, backup QB, DL. ALL needed positions. So don't for a second think if they have a QB valued at 6 they won't take him to get another player with a slightly less grade. Gettleman is not stupid. He knows he needs a new QB at some point. He's just not going to force the issue.
All GM's say BPA, but some of us know better than that.
It is SOP aka, standard operating procedure...
I don't know if we have the right HC in place. I can't tell how good he is at in-game adjustments and the playcalling and time management aspects were shaky this year. I'm fairly confident we have the right GM in place as a guy who has shown the ability to try and upgrade weak areas and better yet - has moved on from players who didn't work out. Plus given his past, he'll make the difficult decisions on vets.
Eli isn't the QB to lead this team in the future. I wouldn't have a problem with him being here next year as we continue to fortify weak areas and then prepare for his successor, but he cannot be signed to a new contract.
I think eli is adequate enough to QB a playoff team, but he needs a strong D and an adequate OL to do that - basically most NFL QB's can thrive in those two conditions.
I think we are two OL players away from being solid, a pass rusher away and one or two safeties away (depending on Collins status) from being a playoff team.
I would liken us a bit to where the Bears were a couple of years ago. They added strength to the lines, added a pass rusher and they are right in the thick of things.
Bottom line, I think Gettleman will get us the pieces to compete - I'm not fully behind Shurmur yet, and the QB situation is something I hope we don't force, yet are able to address in 2020, if not next year.
Steve, Pat, Jordaaan, Gary. All the assholes asking the complete asshole questions, and DG telling them all -- very politely: GFY.
I dunno... one asked a reasonable question about whether winning against 3 backup QBs late in the season might diminish the magnitude of the second-half improvement they keep touting, and Gettleman called the question "offensive."
Quote:
What is your take on the state of the franchise? QB? I know you talk about quick turnarounds in the NFL and it is based in fact. Happens every year. Do you think we have the correct coach/GM in place to facilitate a quick turnaround? When you look at these quick turnarounds, are there circumstances that connect them? Young QB? dominant lines? running games? that you see us having or getting? Basically, I am looking for Fat Man's state of the franchise, post season, while the games are still fresh in your mind.
I don't know if we have the right HC in place. I can't tell how good he is at in-game adjustments and the playcalling and time management aspects were shaky this year. I'm fairly confident we have the right GM in place as a guy who has shown the ability to try and upgrade weak areas and better yet - has moved on from players who didn't work out. Plus given his past, he'll make the difficult decisions on vets.
Eli isn't the QB to lead this team in the future. I wouldn't have a problem with him being here next year as we continue to fortify weak areas and then prepare for his successor, but he cannot be signed to a new contract.
I think eli is adequate enough to QB a playoff team, but he needs a strong D and an adequate OL to do that - basically most NFL QB's can thrive in those two conditions.
I think we are two OL players away from being solid, a pass rusher away and one or two safeties away (depending on Collins status) from being a playoff team.
I would liken us a bit to where the Bears were a couple of years ago. They added strength to the lines, added a pass rusher and they are right in the thick of things.
Bottom line, I think Gettleman will get us the pieces to compete - I'm not fully behind Shurmur yet, and the QB situation is something I hope we don't force, yet are able to address in 2020, if not next year.
Apparently Gettleman thinks he can have it both ways. If you can't note a win over a backup QB, it seems to me like you can't write off a bunch of losses as "installing a new offense".
When the hire was announced I was on record here as liking it. But every time Gettleman opens his mouth the hire gets worse in my eyes.
One sidenote...around the time Gettleman was hired there was a poster (I don't remember who) that said Gettleman was a jerk at some event or program hosted by the Giants. Specifically, he was the only member of the Giants that insisted on being called "Mr. Gettleman". I noticed that Eli, during his call with Francesa, referred to him as "Mr. Gettleman".
Imagine Bill Belichick referencing the 2017 season in a press confrence this year? I just hate the mentality to bring up 3-13.
1. It's something that's difficult to disprove from the outside
2. He had to fine his star WR for throwing his QB under the bus in an interview
3. Shurmur used one of his QBs as a joke to take a shot at the media
4. The effort by some players in 2 of the last 3 games (both at home) was visibly open to question. The entire team looked disinterested in the rain against Tennessee, and the secondary's effort was pathetic against Dallas.
I can't recall a team losing the last 3 games of the season and talking so much about how they improved.
Quote:
First of all, I don’t want to hear about ‘backup quarterbacks’, ‘we played backup quarterbacks’. We went 4-4 in the second half. Here’s what I would say to you, when you’re bringing in and installing a new offense, you’re looking at four to six weeks before everybody’s really on the same page, and it’s really the outlier, it’s six.
Apparently Gettleman thinks he can have it both ways. If you can't note a win over a backup QB, it seems to me like you can't write off a bunch of losses as "installing a new offense".
Yeah, I noticed that as well.
In general, in my own experience, the sort of people who are quick to dismiss various conditions that may have contributed to their success, while also invoking other conditions that may have contributed to their hardships... well, those people tend not to be too productive.
5. One of his QBs acted like a dipshit to some traffic cops and got himself arrested.
Shurmur wasn't here for that, that roster has been blown up. Everyone here now is who they wanted to be here. This is on them, not 2017. And certainly not when all anyone wanted to talk about in July was winning. The conversation has become 'building' and 'culture'.
"hey don't look at me, it was a mess when we got here" is something else.
In year one, the roster "needed" a culture change and attention to both fronts. The addition and subtraction of players designed to address the culture has been discussed ad nauseum, but I will say this, they were able to receive some draft capitol from the purge. Both fronts received a combination of resources from FA and the draft. By year's end, it's hard to argue against the fact that improvement occurred on the offensive front and 4 young DL/ER all got valuable PT and displayed flashes of ability. In other words, 2018 was a success in adding resources to both fronts going forward.
In addition, they added an offensive playmaker that broke records and was among the league leaders in big plays. Forget what position that player plays for a moment and just focus on the actual "plays" that player made. Nearly all coaches will agree, give them someone who can make plays above the Xs and Os. Well they got one that accounted for over 2000 yards. Huge resource secured.
Now, Year 2: Same philosophy. Evaluate assets/ liabilities, evaluate available resources, align. DG confirmed what we all saw, both fronts still require additional pieces. Fortunately, early reviews suggest this draft is strongest in the trenches. What will be interesting is where DG looks for pass rush help. Historically speaking, rookies do not provide immediate pass rush help. Mack, Bosa, Chubb...these guys are outliers. Therefore either your current youngsters make a year 2/3 jump and provide it, or you're into FA for it. My guess is that DG will do the same as this year and hit up both the draft and FA.
IMO, Vernon's fate and how much they spend to secure a proven pass rusher will be your indicator on their true assessment of this roster, its ability to compete in 2019, and their potential #6 targets. Of course this also depends on what happens with the QB.
Re: QB: IMO what we've seen and heard is all posturing. Eli is the best option for 2019 success. The FO wants him to take a pay cut. Will he do it? I hope so. I think all Giants fans should want to see Eli(at a lowered rate), Barkley, OBJ, Collins, Jackrabbit, and bolstered fronts(with Eli's $) competing in 2019. It's the ultimate win win and last hurrah for an all time great.
Oh yeah....get your next QB in 2020.
You win with Qbs, WRs, Pass rush, oline, and corners. The Giants have holes at all of those positions
You win with Qbs, WRs, Pass rush, oline, and corners. The Giants have holes at all of those positions
Exactly -- and a number of the holes are occupied by free agents. It's not like there a bunch of young ascending guys in place on cheap contracts you hope get better.
The Giants are going to end up penciling in a bunch of replacement level guys again because the economics and supply will force it.
Just look at the secondary. They have one clear cut starting level palyer under contract.
Imagine Bill Belichick referencing the 2017 season in a press confrence this year? I just hate the mentality to bring up 3-13.
One season took from "very bad with an attitude problem" to "bad". (although not buying for a second that poppycock about bringing guys in solely for their aura of good feelings.) Maybe one more off-season will take them to mediocre and then you have something to launch.
What if they take a QB YOU don’t think is a franchise QB? If they draft Haskins, will that shut you up? Or will you continue to bitch because he’s not the guy you want? What about if they draft Jones? Do we get a reprieve from your constant whining if they draft him? Or does your incessant comply just get redirected to them taking the wrong guy before we see what he can do? If you’d rather wait until 2020 to take the QB, are you going to spend yet another entire season bitching and complaining about not having a “franchise QB” yet? Even though they did exaywhat you wanted and passed on the 2019 QBs?
Quote:
and absorb the parts about not reaching in the draft. Draft the best players and build the puzzle.
Exactly. I am not expecting a QB. It sounds like many on BBI are. Not unless Gettleman is 100% sure he values that pick where we pick him. Unless something drastically changes we will not be picking a QB. Personally I want BPA.
I think Haskins is being overrated for now.
Did you think the shithouse was going to be cleaned up in one season? This was a very bad team
Kind of a different tune than everyone was singing last year. Last year it was all about getting Eli some help and they'll win more.
Quote:
Shurmur has said “we are trying to move off 3-13” at least a half dozen times.
Imagine Bill Belichick referencing the 2017 season in a press confrence this year? I just hate the mentality to bring up 3-13.
Did you think the shithouse was going to be cleaned up in one season? This was a very bad team with an attitude problem. I don't think some of you realize the extent of the train wreck the three stooges in the coaching box and the FO made of this team, and I doubt any of them will ever again be given a position of responsibility with an NFL team.
One season took from "very bad with an attitude problem" to "bad". (although not buying for a second that poppycock about bringing guys in solely for their aura of good feelings.) Maybe one more off-season will take them to mediocre and then you have something to launch.
What you're saying wasn't what DG was saying before the season started -- here is what he said--
I copied the below quote from BrettNYG10 on the thread called “Remember When Everyone Said Defer to DG Because He's a GM.”
He posted the following quote that looks like came from DG:
“I've seen someone told one of the reporters that I'm in a tear-down," Gettleman said. at the time "We're not spending $62 million on Nate Solder or signing Patrick Omameh and we're not trading for Alec Ogletree if we're in a tear-down. I'm doing that. We've evaluated the roster. We've developed a plan moving forward. It's about winning now. Who wants to lose? I don't."