NFT: Mets Chat

In comment 14246407 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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out of college. He didn't spend a whole lot of time in the minors.

He was, but isn't that like saying Trout was ready to play out of high school?

I think when people say you don't develop position players like the poster above they're including drafting major league ready players.

to give them full development credit when they routinely bury their own and that includes McNeil "he's only a 2b!", Nimmo, Conforto.. it's what they do.

In comment 14246434 DanMetroMan said:

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to give them full development credit when they routinely bury their own and that includes McNeil "he's only a 2b!", Nimmo, Conforto.. it's what they do.

Exactly. It's a bit of a paradox.

Yes, Alderson absolutely gets credit for drafting Nimmo but he absolutely also losses points for signing awful Jay Bruce to a ridiculous contract to completely block Nimmo until injuries to Bruce and Cespedes happen.

The organization will hopefully get better at self scouting under the new regime. I'm fine with a Gonzales or even Cabrera as a depth guy, but hopefully the early comments about Frazier vs McNeil not even being an open competition really concerns me.

In comment 14246434 DanMetroMan said:

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to give them full development credit when they routinely bury their own and that includes McNeil "he's only a 2b!", Nimmo, Conforto.. it's what they do.

come on, McNeil now yes they should be criticized for - absolutely - though I think most of us agree he belongs as the major league level and should be given a full time job (until and unless he fails), but until now the guy couldn't stay on the field.

In comment 14246394 spike said:

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Carlos Gomez to a cheap deal

Seems like he'd be a possible fit both positionally and price wise (given cheap ownership)... but there's a better than 50% chance IMO that he's completely washed up.

In comment 14246434 DanMetroMan said:

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to give them full development credit when they routinely bury their own and that includes McNeil "he's only a 2b!", Nimmo, Conforto.. it's what they do.

Agreed - that's the most mystifying part of things and it goes across so many players. They did a great job getting Conforto then they tried to make him a part time player, then they moved him to CF to accomodate Jay Bruce. Twice. And block Nimmo. And block Dom Smith. Then set themselves up to possibly do something similar this year with McNeil/Frazier. In that case maybe it's the new regime just not buying that Mcneil is legit? I can't think of any rational reason to bury a young player who projected out to be the best position player on the team over 500 AB's last year. That's the guy any rational person would go out of their way to accomodate. Not Jay Bruce. Or Frazier.

But at the end of the day I don't know which category to put it in - draft, development, talent acquisition - they have aggregated a lot of good young players who still have multiple years of team control. If they could just get out of their own way the foundation is still there for a good team. At least until the pitchers start getting too expensive to keep.

to be future part time players. I think Sandy just liked testing certain players to force the issue and knew that the depth would always work itself eventually and in the case of both players it did almost immediately.

Jim Bowden
✔
@JimBowdenGM
Harper vs. Machado 2018 stat note:
Velo 94+
Machado avg .230 Slug .366
Harper avg .327 Slug .779

because Frazier is on a one year deal, older, and is essentially a scrub if he repeats last season. If Frazier deesnt rebound massively early in the season he'll be replaced and end up as a useful vet off the bench (A better Flores). Im guessing they start off platooning a lot early anyway. That helps the team IMO. If you trade Frazier now and give over the reigns to McNeil day one it leaves us a little thin.

still M Gonzalez. Still love his versatility. Number 2 is a trade for Castellanos (defense be damned). That RH bat would look sweet batting 5th in our lineup.

The New York Mets made two minor league signings on Thursday, bringing in relief pitcher Arquimedes Caminero and outfielder Rymer Liriano on non-guaranteed deals, as per a team release. Both received an invite to major league camp.

The organization�s outfield depth chart was desperately bare in the upper-levels before this offseason.

So far, Mets general manager Brodie Van Wagenen has done all he can to solidify that aspect, bringing in Rajai Davis and Gregor Blanco on minor-league deals. Liriano is a former Top-50 prospect.

Adam Fisher
@adamgfisher
Exit velos are lower at Citi Field than any other park and this kills the Mets offense at home. If they can figure out the cause of this and fix it (wind patterns, baseball storage conditions?), it is bigger than almost any acquisition.

MINOR LG CONTRACT W/ INVITE TO ST
LHP Ryan O'Rourke
OF Rajai Davis
OF Gregor Blanco
OF Rymer Liriano
RHP Arquimedes Caminero
INF Dilson Herrera

MINOR LEAGUE CONTRACT
1B Dario Pizzano
OF Jason Krizan
RHP Zach Lee
C Dustin Houle
RHP Casey Coleman
INF Arismendy Alcantara

didn't even play minor league ball this year, jeez.

Caminero is a solid "gamble"

In comment 14246781 ZGiants98 said:

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Adam Fisher @adamgfisher Exit velos are lower at Citi Field than any other park and this kills the Mets offense at home. If they can figure out the cause of this and fix it (wind patterns, baseball storage conditions?), it is bigger than almost any acquisition.

Weird tweet there by Adam. If they "fix" this then any benefit our offense gets would be offset by a corresponding disadvantage to our pitchers/advantage to opposition offense too. Both teams each game play in the same environment.

I do hope they fix it because IMO the Mets should play in a park as close to "neutral" as possible, but expecting it to result in extra wins is sort of missing the point.

In comment 14247045 Metnut said:

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In comment 14246781 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Adam Fisher @adamgfisher Exit velos are lower at Citi Field than any other park and this kills the Mets offense at home. If they can figure out the cause of this and fix it (wind patterns, baseball storage conditions?), it is bigger than almost any acquisition. Weird tweet there by Adam. If they "fix" this then any benefit our offense gets would be offset by a corresponding disadvantage to our pitchers/advantage to opposition offense too. Both teams each game play in the same environment. I do hope they fix it because IMO the Mets should play in a park as close to "neutral" as possible, but expecting it to result in extra wins is sort of missing the point.

Yeah and someone called him out on this (not in a rude way) and he suggested it had a mental impact on the hitters. While they should look into it I think "mental impact" is kind of silly when teams like the A's with their ballpark don't have the same issues.

Arismendy Alcantara isn't a terrible grab but for whatever the reason was beyond awful in 2017, failed to find a minor league deal in 2018. 2014 (when he had some buzz) is going on 5 seasons ago #Mets

velo is determined to be environmental and not pitcher dependent why would it have to be "fixed"?

Don't the home and away team get impacted by it similarly?

why fix it if it's environmental and if you believe the Mets have better pitchers, doesn't lower exit velo keep more balls in the park?


Not sure I understand this completely.

In comment 14247058 pjcas18 said:

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velo is determined to be environmental and not pitcher dependent why would it have to be "fixed"? Don't the home and away team get impacted by it similarly? why fix it if it's environmental and if you believe the Mets have better pitchers, doesn't lower exit velo keep more balls in the park? Not sure I understand this completely.

PJ,
The assertion is that it's likely related to everything from wind currents in the ballpark to even the angle the stadium is situated. The "idea" is that opposing hitters come in and hit but the Mets hitters do not because of having to play 81 games there and that impacting them. The exit velocity WOULD imply there is something to it. Theoretically the pitchers would give up similar exit velocities on the road as well if it were simply having good pitchers. There isn't much that can be done (in my view) outside of making renovations to the stadium (potentially extensive) and I doubt the Mets (and for once this isn't a $$ swipe) feel this is something worth investigating to that level.

wouldn't that premise be like saying Rockies players hit the same away from Coors because they play 81 games there and we know by Home/Road splits that it's just not the case. Just in 2018 alone the Rockies home OPS was almost 200 points higher than on the road.

Why doesn't this same philosophy apply to the Rockies? I know this is somewhat different, but conceptually I don't think it is.

In terms of shit to worry about this doesn't make my list.

the mystery is that met hitters suck at home and don't on the road but changing the environment would have just as much negative impact as positive.

IMO they (management) just haven't figured out how to adapt to their own ballpark yet. I think before changing the environment they should figure out whether or not there are different types of hitters that actually excel there and try to build an advantage.

Here's a link to a fangraphs list of the best hitters against the mets on the road since 2014, interestingly by either OPS and wrc+ a lot of the top guys on the list are low K players. Posey, Rendon, Molina, Murphy. Even Rollins, Utley and Freeman are/were under the league average in terms of striking out. It's all SSS but somewhat interesting. Cano and Ramos could both fit the profile so they might be interesting test cases this year.

btw last year 1 met who hit 100 points better at home than on the road? Jeff McNeil.
Best hitters in citi field - ( New Window )

Why has this been PUBLICLY been discussed for over six months now, when instead it could privately be taken advantage of?

In comment 14247079 pjcas18 said:

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wouldn't that premise be like saying Rockies players hit the same away from Coors because they play 81 games there and we know by Home/Road splits that it's just not the case. Just in 2018 alone the Rockies home OPS was almost 200 points higher than on the road. Why doesn't this same philosophy apply to the Rockies? I know this is somewhat different, but conceptually I don't think it is. In terms of shit to worry about this doesn't make my list.

To be clear.. even the long Verducci piece on the topic only throws out theories. I don't feel strongly about any of them and don't even fully understand some of it so I'm just parroting what others have said and not giving "my" take. I would suggest based on your Rockies example the difference (again IF you're buying the mental impact) is the Rockies are going from a very beneficial situation at home to neutral on the road vs. The Mets who don't have any "beneficial" offensive bump. Negative at home, neutral on the road.

and somehow harder for players to hit in (hence the lower exit velo). I just would prefer to see them try to figure out how to turn that to their advantage vs. do something that could negatively impact the strength of the team (pitching). Over the last several years of Sandy's tenure they were near the top of the league in HR's and K's but very low in runs scored. I don't think it's a stretch to say that may have just been a misguided philosophy.

In comment 14247085 Shecky said:

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Why has this been PUBLICLY been discussed for over six months now, when instead it could privately be taken advantage of?

instead of 'play like a champion' mets front office has a 'leave no excuse unsaid' sign.

In comment 14247089 Eric on Li said:

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and somehow harder for players to hit in (hence the lower exit velo). I just would prefer to see them try to figure out how to turn that to their advantage vs. do something that could negatively impact the strength of the team (pitching). Over the last several years of Sandy's tenure they were near the top of the league in HR's and K's but very low in runs scored. I don't think it's a stretch to say that may have just been a misguided philosophy.

Right, like build your roster to maximize pitching (starters and bullpen) and defense.

take advantage of the low exit velo.

that type of roster wouldn't really suffer on the road.

know people get tired of me citing numbers but the truth is the Mets simply haven't had many good offensive players the past few seasons. Ballpark is almost secondary. 2018 really only Conforto, Nimmo and 1/2 of Cabrera really represented "good offense" among regulars. We can chop and slice this all we want but they got garbage offensive output at 1b, C, SS, 3b and 1 OF spot. Very hard to win games that way.

to this team over the past 3-4 years. They have lost more runs there than just about any team in the league. So they started every single game with that handicap tilted away from them along with whatever other handicap they had at home offensively due to the exit velo. Almost every other team came into our stadium with an advantage over us purely because of better defense.

In comment 14247103 DanMetroMan said:

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know people get tired of me citing numbers but the truth is the Mets simply haven't had many good offensive players the past few seasons. Ballpark is almost secondary. 2018 really only Conforto, Nimmo and 1/2 of Cabrera really represented "good offense" among regulars. We can chop and slice this all we want but they got garbage offensive output at 1b, C, SS, 3b and 1 OF spot. Very hard to win games that way.

that's definitely true too. Forget the last few years even going back to citi opening. Above average hitters for their positions the home team for multiple seasons - Wright, Murphy, Cespedes, Granderson, Conforto, end of list?

In comment 14247109 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14247103 DanMetroMan said: Quote: know people get tired of me citing numbers but the truth is the Mets simply haven't had many good offensive players the past few seasons. Ballpark is almost secondary. 2018 really only Conforto, Nimmo and 1/2 of Cabrera really represented "good offense" among regulars. We can chop and slice this all we want but they got garbage offensive output at 1b, C, SS, 3b and 1 OF spot. Very hard to win games that way. that's definitely true too. Forget the last few years even going back to citi opening. Above average hitters for their positions the home team for multiple seasons - Wright, Murphy, Cespedes, Granderson, Conforto, end of list?

This is where the "good" teams take advantage. The Astros had 7 players in their lineup with 100+ wRC+, + Stassi 97, and Reddick 99. So they essentially had 9 players going out there every day who could hit and THEN they had Kemp post a 108 OPS+ over 97 games and White 143 over 66. The Mets had Nimmo, Wilmer (gone), Cabrera (half season), Conforto, Bautista (half season and gone), Mesoraco (half season and gone) and McNeil 1/3 season but absolute garbage players like Jackson, Reyes, Gonzalez saw SIGNIFICANT run and Jay Bruce was trash

There are rumors that the Nationals have offered Harper "significantly more" than their original offer. Their original offer was reportedly 10 years 300 million.

Lol

Nelson Cruz was traded for noted luminaries Jorge Velandia (Mets) and Keith Ginter (A's) before collecting a single PA, post age-27 season... 22 career homers, now has a better than 50% chance of clearing 400 by the time his career is over. Pretty amazing. #Mets

In comment 14247144 Jay on the Island said:

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There are rumors that the Nationals have offered Harper "significantly more" than their original offer. Their original offer was reportedly 10 years 300 million.

Adding Harper or Machado would be 1 pretty quick way to increase Mets average exit velocity at Citi... if that's the KPI we're going by today.. haha

sign Hector Santiago.

Santiago doesn't have strong numbers vs. lefties so he's not a LOOGY option. Looks like Syracuse SP depth to me. If so, while not especially good, he's still potentially an "upgrade" over guys like Conlon #Mets

deal... not a fan

mets need depth, makes sense, would have preferred MiL deal though too. Hopefully it's only 1-2 million.

the Mets almost landed Griffey, that 2000 lineup would have been insane.

In comment 14248096 DanMetroMan said:

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sign Hector Santiago. Santiago doesn't have strong numbers vs. lefties so he's not a LOOGY option. Looks like Syracuse SP depth to me. If so, while not especially good, he's still potentially an "upgrade" over guys like Conlon #Mets

I LOVE this signing!!

to the Mets.

In comment 14248226 Pete in MD said:

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to the Mets.

And HATE this trade :(

Danny Wexler
‏

@WexlerRules
10 Dec 2018
More
Maybe he's just not particularly good but if the Brewers are shopping Broxton I'd be interested. Still only 28, RH, 11 DRS in CF in 2018, he's not the "answer" for this lineup but I'd buy low https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9253&position=OF � #Mets

defensive player, replaces Lagares if he is traded. 1.5 war player, one of the fastest players in the game. While is average is low, his OPS is reasonably for a defensive specialist.

until 2023, so he can be Lagares without that contract for a long time, and hopefully be healthier. That's not invaluable.

Brodie has said he does read people's twitter messages, and from his conversations with the media, I believe him. The guy seems wired into everything. So maybe you did raise an eyebrow

He�s a superstar, who can�t make contact with the ball... kind of an important facet to the game. And streaky as can be.

Pouring a 49 for Hill :(

In comment 14248235 CMicks3110 said:

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Brodie has said he does read people's twitter messages, and from his conversations with the media, I believe him. The guy seems wired into everything. So maybe you did raise an eyebrow

If you really think about it... why not? Some players or stats may be overlooked until brought to your attention. It wouldn't be truly absurd. It's not like I'm claiming to be a scout lol

I�d have preferred someone who can make contact, but the price doesn�t seem all that high, he�s cheap, and now they have insurance for whenever Lagares gets hurt. And a pinch runner. Let him and Lagares compete for CF and may the best man win. Speed and defense on the upswing.

Jmo but this type of move + spending $20m per year is better than pollock. Though obviously the critical part of that equation is spending the 20m elsewhere.

In comment 14248170 DanMetroMan said:

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deal... not a fan

According to Metsblog, this signing is a minor league deal.
Metsblog - ( New Window )

One year deal