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NFT: Mets Chat

DanMetroMan : 1/2/2019 3:45 pm
-Passan says the Mets never made an actual 4 year 60 million dollar offer as the LA Times is reporting. He says they had "discussions" with Grandal regarding potential deals but never made a firm offer.

-"Many" teams reportedly calling about Lugo... KEEP.

- Passan also says the Mets likely won't sign Pollock.. for some reason they feel they must trade Nimmo or Conforto if they sign Pollock (they reportedly considered trading one of them in general but have backed off) which would make you believe they felt they would be getting a big return from Cespedes... HOWEVER... today

-
"If he gives us anything this year, that is great, we're happy for that," Minaya said.

So we are again back to questioning finances
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There’s a reason the team is telling Ces to patient  
Shecky : 1/2/2019 3:54 pm : link
And get well at his own pace. And yeah, it’s finances. Secondly, it’s the right way to push his buttons and his ego.
Mets chatter since the Familia signing  
allstarjim : 1/2/2019 3:58 pm : link
can be summed up with, "same 'ol, same 'ol."

Re-treads like Blanco and Davis...Mets are dumpster diving.

They clearly need another OF, likely one to play CF, and they need a lefty reliever.

At this point, I'm starting to wonder what Kaczmarski can do at the ML level because I'm starting to think that might be the best option after Lagares.

Of course, if Gimenez has the goods, the Mets might see if Rosario can play a good CF.

It is the same old Mets  
Rflairr : 1/2/2019 4:00 pm : link
Not even in the conversation for Machado and Harper. Why not?
RE: It is the same old Mets  
allstarjim : 1/2/2019 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14244756 Rflairr said:
Quote:
Not even in the conversation for Machado and Harper. Why not?


I had given up on Machado and Harper before the conversation even started. But it sounds like they are giving up on Pollock, which is dumb to me, and reflects the Wilpons' tight squeeze on every nickel.
Speaking of “same old, same old”  
Shecky : 1/2/2019 4:05 pm : link
.
So without Cespedes our OF is  
Metnut : 1/2/2019 4:08 pm : link
Nimmo, Conforto, Lagares. If one of those three guys gets injured, we're in trouble. Even moreso, if the guy who gets hurt is Nimmo or Conforto, and Lagares struggles at the plate, we're in deep deep shit. This a scenario which isn't that unlikely to occur. IMO, we need to bring in a good OF.

Our starting rotation is the big 3, then Matz and Vargas. Who is next after that? What if one of the big 3 get hurt and Vargas continues to stink? Could this team survive a month if our rotation is DeGrom, Wheeler, Matz, Oswalt, Gsellmen?

My point is that there's not much else behind there. We need another starting pitcher IMO. If Brodie doesn't like the SP options out there and wants to roll the dice on the current group, IMO we should go after one of the top (non-Kimbrel) relievers left on the market so we'd have more flexibility with Lugo.

We probably need another IF too to add to our bench. Assuming the Mets don't blow a year of Alonso control for two weeks of April games, I'm not even sure who our best 3 best bench bats are? TJ Rivera? Who else?

I was middle of the road on the big trade but liked both the Ramos and Familia signings. It's still not enough though. The team needs a bit more than a few bargain bin signings to be a top NL team. If they just stand pat now and add 25th men AAAA types, they look more like a fringe contender type team than a first-rate contender.

We'd have a lot less room for error given our lack of depth than the teams we'd be competing against. It wouldn't be a hopeless situation, but IMO, if you're going to trade two of your best prospects for a trade where an aging Cano was a co-headliner, they should be more aggressive with so much FA talent still available.



Does anyone remember  
pjcas18 : 1/2/2019 4:10 pm : link
last year's winter meetings or thereabouts when a reporter asked Sandy if the Mets pursued Stanton at all?

And he replied something like With Brandon Nimmo in right field, we just didn't feel we had a need thereo?

Well fast forward to October and Nimmo ends up with a 4.5 fWAR and Stanton a 4.2 fWAR and people actually said "see, Sandy was right"

but what people don't see is imagine if they had Stanton and Nimmo and Conforto.....

the way Mets fans and media minds are trained is no longer to think big.

the Mets should 100% be in on both or at worst one of Machado and Harper.

it's sports malpractice for a NY team in the situation the Mets are in, not to pursue them. No defense, no matter how impassioned changes that fact.
I'm most discouraged that they don't seem to even be in mix  
Eric on Li : 1/2/2019 4:11 pm : link
on Ottavino or Robertson since Miller and Soria signed their very reasonable 2 year deals. They're comfortable putting 3 of Cano's age 38+ seasons on the payroll at $20m per but not comfortable spending ~$20m over 2 years for guys who at worst will bring back a good prospect at the deadline if they are out of it. Just doesn't make sense. I have no issues signing adam warren or justin wilson, but for the minimal price difference why not just spend a drop more on another legitimate back end option?
RE: RE: It is the same old Mets  
moze1021 : 1/2/2019 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14244761 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14244756 Rflairr said:


Quote:


Not even in the conversation for Machado and Harper. Why not?



I had given up on Machado and Harper before the conversation even started. But it sounds like they are giving up on Pollock, which is dumb to me, and reflects the Wilpons' tight squeeze on every nickel.


In some ways I'd be more annoyed if they did sign Pollock to a big deal... it would just be a half-assed approach instead of doing the right thing and signing Harper or Machado..

Ridiculous that they aren't in on those 2 guys.. absolutely ridiculous.
RE: Does anyone remember  
moze1021 : 1/2/2019 4:16 pm : link
In comment 14244771 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
last year's winter meetings or thereabouts when a reporter asked Sandy if the Mets pursued Stanton at all?

And he replied something like With Brandon Nimmo in right field, we just didn't feel we had a need thereo?

Well fast forward to October and Nimmo ends up with a 4.5 fWAR and Stanton a 4.2 fWAR and people actually said "see, Sandy was right"

but what people don't see is imagine if they had Stanton and Nimmo and Conforto.....

the way Mets fans and media minds are trained is no longer to think big.

the Mets should 100% be in on both or at worst one of Machado and Harper.

it's sports malpractice for a NY team in the situation the Mets are in, not to pursue them. No defense, no matter how impassioned changes that fact.


Excellent post... I am baffled when I see Mets fans say things like "we don't need them" or "I don't want one of those guys, they are going to be overpaid!"...

We shouldn't be so worried as fans about player value that we pass up on 2 generational talents about to hit their primes...
RE: Does anyone remember  
Eric on Li : 1/2/2019 4:18 pm : link
In comment 14244771 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
last year's winter meetings or thereabouts when a reporter asked Sandy if the Mets pursued Stanton at all?

And he replied something like With Brandon Nimmo in right field, we just didn't feel we had a need thereo?

Well fast forward to October and Nimmo ends up with a 4.5 fWAR and Stanton a 4.2 fWAR and people actually said "see, Sandy was right"

but what people don't see is imagine if they had Stanton and Nimmo and Conforto.....

the way Mets fans and media minds are trained is no longer to think big.

the Mets should 100% be in on both or at worst one of Machado and Harper.

it's sports malpractice for a NY team in the situation the Mets are in, not to pursue them. No defense, no matter how impassioned changes that fact.


Agreed - especially in the context of adding Cano. Even counting the money going the other way, at the end of the day they are paying him a net of ~$60m from age 36+ for however many good years he has left. Let's generously guesstimate 2 more very good years - that's the same ~$30m per Harper or Machado (or Stanton last year) cost. They make moves because they are more attractive in how they can account for them as compared to how attractive they are on the field. And that's a big reason why the results on the field often disappoint us.
RE: Does anyone remember  
Section331 : 1/2/2019 4:28 pm : link
In comment 14244771 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
last year's winter meetings or thereabouts when a reporter asked Sandy if the Mets pursued Stanton at all?

And he replied something like With Brandon Nimmo in right field, we just didn't feel we had a need thereo?

Well fast forward to October and Nimmo ends up with a 4.5 fWAR and Stanton a 4.2 fWAR and people actually said "see, Sandy was right"

but what people don't see is imagine if they had Stanton and Nimmo and Conforto.....

the way Mets fans and media minds are trained is no longer to think big.

the Mets should 100% be in on both or at worst one of Machado and Harper.

it's sports malpractice for a NY team in the situation the Mets are in, not to pursue them. No defense, no matter how impassioned changes that fact.


Like when I spoke to someone in the Mets' scouting dept about going after Machado, he said Machado wanted to play SS, and we have Rosario. Ugh.
The Red Sox are paying the luxury  
pjcas18 : 1/2/2019 4:35 pm : link
tax and they just won a WS. Why aren't the Mets willing to do what it takes to win?

the Mets stadium holds at least 5,000 more fans than Fenway and when the Mets field a winning a team the fans show up.

In 2008 the Mets had the 4th highest home attendance in MLB history (based on reported attendance #'s). Yes, last year of Shea, but no one I know loved Shea like fans did the old school fields. It was mostly because of the success in 2007.

The Mets realistically should have gone into this off-season targeting both Machado and Harper - get creative, have some opt-outs or front loading or back loading to spread the costs out, deferments, whatever, but adding those two, Familia, and the Cano trade would easily make the Mets NL favorites.

for a few years, then figure out how to pay deGrom and Syndergaard.

The Mets are in the business of doing just enough  
spike : 1/2/2019 4:42 pm : link
They have Zero depth. When Injuries happen and they will, they will then blame the injuries for another failed season.

Rinse and repeat.

Why do people bother rooting for the Wilponses
They will probably trade off Syndergaatd  
spike : 1/2/2019 4:43 pm : link
Cuz they can’t afford him. Small market minded ownership
Martino  
GF1080 : 1/3/2019 10:00 am : link
Martino says we're reportedly interested in Marwin, Justin Wilson, Adam Warren, and Asdrubal right now.
RE: Martino  
allstarjim : 1/3/2019 10:14 am : link
In comment 14245700 GF1080 said:
Quote:
Martino says we're reportedly interested in Marwin, Justin Wilson, Adam Warren, and Asdrubal right now.


Marwin makes perfect sense but I'm sure we'll end up with Asdrubal again now that we really have no use for him.
If McNeil is healthy  
Metnut : 1/3/2019 12:51 pm : link
and the Mets don't give him at least 500 ABs then they are making an incredibly stupid move unless someone like Machado blocks him. If it's guys like Frazier or Cabrera getting those ABs then fuck that.
Phillies sign Robertson  
Eric on Li : 1/3/2019 1:28 pm : link
David Robertson has agreed to a two-year deal with the Phillies that guarantees him at least $23 million. He’ll earn $10M in 2019, $11M in 2020, with a $12M club option ($2M buyout) for 2021. He’s passed a physical and the deal is complete.

Pretty reasonable deal.
RE: Phillies sign Robertson  
speedywheels : 1/3/2019 1:31 pm : link
In comment 14246072 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
David Robertson has agreed to a two-year deal with the Phillies that guarantees him at least $23 million. He’ll earn $10M in 2019, $11M in 2020, with a $12M club option ($2M buyout) for 2021. He’s passed a physical and the deal is complete.

Pretty reasonable deal.


That's a good deal. Wish Mets were in on that.
Mets rarely develop position players  
spike : 1/3/2019 1:33 pm : link
Instead they are chasing over the hill vets
RE: Mets rarely develop position players  
pjcas18 : 1/3/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14246086 spike said:
Quote:
Instead they are chasing over the hill vets


they do chase over the hill veterans, but right now 5 of the 8 positions are home grown position players.

Conforto
Lagares
Nimmo
Rosario
D. Smith or Alonso likely/possible opening day 1B

Only
Cano
Frazier
Ramos

currently penciled in as free agent signed starters.

And D. Wright injury has something to do with Frazier.
RE: Mets rarely develop position players  
Metnut : 1/3/2019 1:42 pm : link
In comment 14246086 spike said:
Quote:
Instead they are chasing over the hill vets


It was kind of hilarious how Alderson & company seemingly did all that they could to block Nimmo.
It wasn't all roses but Alderson developed best crop of homegrown  
Eric on Li : 1/3/2019 1:59 pm : link
players we have probably ever seen in this org. Definitely the deepest. Conforto, Nimmo, Rosario, McNeil and hopefully shortly Alonso, Gimenez join them. We all know about the pitching, even though some will throw out the technicality that he didn't also draft all of them, his regime coached them all through multiple seasons, starting from at the latest A ball. Wheeler, JDG, Thor, Familia, Harvey, Matz, etc. Too bad his veteran acquisitions mostly sucked during all of their cheap years.
They should sign  
spike : 1/3/2019 4:25 pm : link
Carlos Gomez to a cheap deal
It's probably nitpicking, but Conforto kind of was ready to play  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2019 4:30 pm : link
out of college. He didn't spend a whole lot of time in the minors.
RE: It's probably nitpicking, but Conforto kind of was ready to play  
pjcas18 : 1/3/2019 4:36 pm : link
In comment 14246407 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
out of college. He didn't spend a whole lot of time in the minors.


He was, but isn't that like saying Trout was ready to play out of high school?

I think when people say you don't develop position players like the poster above they're including drafting major league ready players.

Hard  
DanMetroMan : 1/3/2019 4:42 pm : link
to give them full development credit when they routinely bury their own and that includes McNeil "he's only a 2b!", Nimmo, Conforto.. it's what they do.
RE: Hard  
Metnut : 1/3/2019 4:47 pm : link
In comment 14246434 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
to give them full development credit when they routinely bury their own and that includes McNeil "he's only a 2b!", Nimmo, Conforto.. it's what they do.


Exactly. It's a bit of a paradox.

Yes, Alderson absolutely gets credit for drafting Nimmo but he absolutely also losses points for signing awful Jay Bruce to a ridiculous contract to completely block Nimmo until injuries to Bruce and Cespedes happen.

The organization will hopefully get better at self scouting under the new regime. I'm fine with a Gonzales or even Cabrera as a depth guy, but hopefully the early comments about Frazier vs McNeil not even being an open competition really concerns me.
RE: Hard  
pjcas18 : 1/3/2019 4:48 pm : link
In comment 14246434 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
to give them full development credit when they routinely bury their own and that includes McNeil "he's only a 2b!", Nimmo, Conforto.. it's what they do.


come on, McNeil now yes they should be criticized for - absolutely - though I think most of us agree he belongs as the major league level and should be given a full time job (until and unless he fails), but until now the guy couldn't stay on the field.

RE: They should sign  
Metnut : 1/3/2019 4:49 pm : link
In comment 14246394 spike said:
Quote:
Carlos Gomez to a cheap deal


Seems like he'd be a possible fit both positionally and price wise (given cheap ownership)... but there's a better than 50% chance IMO that he's completely washed up.
RE: Hard  
Eric on Li : 1/3/2019 4:53 pm : link
In comment 14246434 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
to give them full development credit when they routinely bury their own and that includes McNeil "he's only a 2b!", Nimmo, Conforto.. it's what they do.


Agreed - that's the most mystifying part of things and it goes across so many players. They did a great job getting Conforto then they tried to make him a part time player, then they moved him to CF to accomodate Jay Bruce. Twice. And block Nimmo. And block Dom Smith. Then set themselves up to possibly do something similar this year with McNeil/Frazier. In that case maybe it's the new regime just not buying that Mcneil is legit? I can't think of any rational reason to bury a young player who projected out to be the best position player on the team over 500 AB's last year. That's the guy any rational person would go out of their way to accomodate. Not Jay Bruce. Or Frazier.

But at the end of the day I don't know which category to put it in - draft, development, talent acquisition - they have aggregated a lot of good young players who still have multiple years of team control. If they could just get out of their own way the foundation is still there for a good team. At least until the pitchers start getting too expensive to keep.
I dont think Conforto or Nimmo were ever intended  
ZGiants98 : 1/3/2019 9:51 pm : link
to be future part time players. I think Sandy just liked testing certain players to force the issue and knew that the depth would always work itself eventually and in the case of both players it did almost immediately.
Telling stat...  
ZGiants98 : 1/3/2019 9:51 pm : link
Jim Bowden
✔
@JimBowdenGM
Harper vs. Machado 2018 stat note:
Velo 94+
Machado avg .230 Slug .366
Harper avg .327 Slug .779
I also really dont mind McNeil starting off the bench in theory  
ZGiants98 : 1/3/2019 9:54 pm : link
because Frazier is on a one year deal, older, and is essentially a scrub if he repeats last season. If Frazier deesnt rebound massively early in the season he'll be replaced and end up as a useful vet off the bench (A better Flores). Im guessing they start off platooning a lot early anyway. That helps the team IMO. If you trade Frazier now and give over the reigns to McNeil day one it leaves us a little thin.
After Harper my number one target is  
ZGiants98 : 1/3/2019 9:56 pm : link
still M Gonzalez. Still love his versatility. Number 2 is a trade for Castellanos (defense be damned). That RH bat would look sweet batting 5th in our lineup.
Digging all these little minor league moves...  
ZGiants98 : 1/3/2019 10:00 pm : link
The New York Mets made two minor league signings on Thursday, bringing in relief pitcher Arquimedes Caminero and outfielder Rymer Liriano on non-guaranteed deals, as per a team release. Both received an invite to major league camp.

The organization’s outfield depth chart was desperately bare in the upper-levels before this offseason.

So far, Mets general manager Brodie Van Wagenen has done all he can to solidify that aspect, bringing in Rajai Davis and Gregor Blanco on minor-league deals. Liriano is a former Top-50 prospect.
.  
ZGiants98 : 1/4/2019 12:24 am : link
Adam Fisher
@adamgfisher
Exit velos are lower at Citi Field than any other park and this kills the Mets offense at home. If they can figure out the cause of this and fix it (wind patterns, baseball storage conditions?), it is bigger than almost any acquisition.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/4/2019 9:48 am : link
MINOR LG CONTRACT W/ INVITE TO ST
LHP Ryan O'Rourke
OF Rajai Davis
OF Gregor Blanco
OF Rymer Liriano
RHP Arquimedes Caminero
INF Dilson Herrera

MINOR LEAGUE CONTRACT
1B Dario Pizzano
OF Jason Krizan
RHP Zach Lee
C Dustin Houle
RHP Casey Coleman
INF Arismendy Alcantara
Alcantara  
DanMetroMan : 1/4/2019 9:55 am : link
didn't even play minor league ball this year, jeez.

Caminero is a solid "gamble"
RE: .  
Metnut : 1/4/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14246781 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Adam Fisher
@adamgfisher
Exit velos are lower at Citi Field than any other park and this kills the Mets offense at home. If they can figure out the cause of this and fix it (wind patterns, baseball storage conditions?), it is bigger than almost any acquisition.


Weird tweet there by Adam. If they "fix" this then any benefit our offense gets would be offset by a corresponding disadvantage to our pitchers/advantage to opposition offense too. Both teams each game play in the same environment.

I do hope they fix it because IMO the Mets should play in a park as close to "neutral" as possible, but expecting it to result in extra wins is sort of missing the point.
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 1/4/2019 10:09 am : link
In comment 14247045 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 14246781 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Adam Fisher
@adamgfisher
Exit velos are lower at Citi Field than any other park and this kills the Mets offense at home. If they can figure out the cause of this and fix it (wind patterns, baseball storage conditions?), it is bigger than almost any acquisition.



Weird tweet there by Adam. If they "fix" this then any benefit our offense gets would be offset by a corresponding disadvantage to our pitchers/advantage to opposition offense too. Both teams each game play in the same environment.

I do hope they fix it because IMO the Mets should play in a park as close to "neutral" as possible, but expecting it to result in extra wins is sort of missing the point.


Yeah and someone called him out on this (not in a rude way) and he suggested it had a mental impact on the hitters. While they should look into it I think "mental impact" is kind of silly when teams like the A's with their ballpark don't have the same issues.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/4/2019 10:10 am : link
Arismendy Alcantara isn't a terrible grab but for whatever the reason was beyond awful in 2017, failed to find a minor league deal in 2018. 2014 (when he had some buzz) is going on 5 seasons ago #Mets
If the exit  
pjcas18 : 1/4/2019 10:12 am : link
velo is determined to be environmental and not pitcher dependent why would it have to be "fixed"?

Don't the home and away team get impacted by it similarly?

why fix it if it's environmental and if you believe the Mets have better pitchers, doesn't lower exit velo keep more balls in the park?


Not sure I understand this completely.

RE: If the exit  
DanMetroMan : 1/4/2019 10:16 am : link
In comment 14247058 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
velo is determined to be environmental and not pitcher dependent why would it have to be "fixed"?

Don't the home and away team get impacted by it similarly?

why fix it if it's environmental and if you believe the Mets have better pitchers, doesn't lower exit velo keep more balls in the park?


Not sure I understand this completely.


PJ,
The assertion is that it's likely related to everything from wind currents in the ballpark to even the angle the stadium is situated. The "idea" is that opposing hitters come in and hit but the Mets hitters do not because of having to play 81 games there and that impacting them. The exit velocity WOULD imply there is something to it. Theoretically the pitchers would give up similar exit velocities on the road as well if it were simply having good pitchers. There isn't much that can be done (in my view) outside of making renovations to the stadium (potentially extensive) and I doubt the Mets (and for once this isn't a $$ swipe) feel this is something worth investigating to that level.
I'm not sure I buy that DMM  
pjcas18 : 1/4/2019 10:33 am : link
wouldn't that premise be like saying Rockies players hit the same away from Coors because they play 81 games there and we know by Home/Road splits that it's just not the case. Just in 2018 alone the Rockies home OPS was almost 200 points higher than on the road.

Why doesn't this same philosophy apply to the Rockies? I know this is somewhat different, but conceptually I don't think it is.

In terms of shit to worry about this doesn't make my list.
PJ you are correct  
Eric on Li : 1/4/2019 10:35 am : link
the mystery is that met hitters suck at home and don't on the road but changing the environment would have just as much negative impact as positive.

IMO they (management) just haven't figured out how to adapt to their own ballpark yet. I think before changing the environment they should figure out whether or not there are different types of hitters that actually excel there and try to build an advantage.

Here's a link to a fangraphs list of the best hitters against the mets on the road since 2014, interestingly by either OPS and wrc+ a lot of the top guys on the list are low K players. Posey, Rendon, Molina, Murphy. Even Rollins, Utley and Freeman are/were under the league average in terms of striking out. It's all SSS but somewhat interesting. Cano and Ramos could both fit the profile so they might be interesting test cases this year.

btw last year 1 met who hit 100 points better at home than on the road? Jeff McNeil.
Best hitters in citi field - ( New Window )
My one question is  
Shecky : 1/4/2019 10:37 am : link
Why has this been PUBLICLY been discussed for over six months now, when instead it could privately be taken advantage of?
RE: I'm not sure I buy that DMM  
DanMetroMan : 1/4/2019 10:37 am : link
In comment 14247079 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
wouldn't that premise be like saying Rockies players hit the same away from Coors because they play 81 games there and we know by Home/Road splits that it's just not the case. Just in 2018 alone the Rockies home OPS was almost 200 points higher than on the road.

Why doesn't this same philosophy apply to the Rockies? I know this is somewhat different, but conceptually I don't think it is.

In terms of shit to worry about this doesn't make my list.


To be clear.. even the long Verducci piece on the topic only throws out theories. I don't feel strongly about any of them and don't even fully understand some of it so I'm just parroting what others have said and not giving "my" take. I would suggest based on your Rockies example the difference (again IF you're buying the mental impact) is the Rockies are going from a very beneficial situation at home to neutral on the road vs. The Mets who don't have any "beneficial" offensive bump. Negative at home, neutral on the road.
& just to be clear I believe the underlying fact that citi is weird  
Eric on Li : 1/4/2019 10:39 am : link
and somehow harder for players to hit in (hence the lower exit velo). I just would prefer to see them try to figure out how to turn that to their advantage vs. do something that could negatively impact the strength of the team (pitching). Over the last several years of Sandy's tenure they were near the top of the league in HR's and K's but very low in runs scored. I don't think it's a stretch to say that may have just been a misguided philosophy.
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