Says he still wants to play, but sounds like he's thinking things through. Also, first time I've ever heard him suggest options were open with respect to playing for other teams.
the Manning's never leave money on the table, the Giants don't want to give him 23 million. As of now, I think there is a lot of posturing going on. If the Giants tell Eli they want him back, what leverage do they have to renegotiate with him? If Eli says he isn't opposed to retiring or playing with another team, what leverage does he have against being cut? It is all a guessing game from our outside perspective. Maybe Gettleman loves one of the QBs (either FA or draft) and is holding out. Maybe he doesn't but wants Eli back at a much more reasonable number. We really don't know anything and all the guessing in the world is not going to lead us to a satisfactory answer because we just do not have enough information.
You've said that on multiple threads and I still don't get what it means. "The Mannings don't leave money on the able..."
RE: I don't think it was reasonable to expect it to end all rosy
between the Giants and Eli. Not that it wasn't possible - but in most cases, things don't tend to end very well for high performing players with long careers, it's more typical than not that they don't know when to hang 'em up.
Eli's had a good run and he's made a ton of money. If he goes somewhere else, I honestly hope he's not making a mistake and picks somewhere that gives him a chance to function and succeed. I'd rather not see him struggle for one last year in another uniform (although I'm certain if I were him I'd rather take in one more year of salary regardless).
Denver and Jax would be good fits as they have great defenses and holes at QB where he would be an upgrade. If he goes to the Skins Phind or Raiders hell end his career like Favre
Gettleman is playing bad cop while Shurmur is playing good cop. I remember Gettlemans press conference on draft night after drafting Barkley where he said something along the lines of...
We are going to find out. when pressed about Elis play in 2018. The hope was for Eli to play well, compete for the division & he could be the guy for another 2-3 years. It hasnt turned out this way & I think the plan is to move on.
Its sad. Even if its in the best interest of the Giants & Eli - its sad.
Gettleman is playing bad cop while Shurmur is playing good cop. I remember Gettlemans press conference on draft night after drafting Barkley where he said something along the lines of...
We are going to find out. when pressed about Elis play in 2018. The hope was for Eli to play well, compete for the division & he could be the guy for another 2-3 years. It hasnt turned out this way & I think the plan is to move on.
Its sad. Even if its in the best interest of the Giants & Eli - its sad.
whats sad has been this long stretch of losing football. Even that is not truly sad in the bigger picture of life
I tend to agree this is about money. That comment from Eli about what they could stand and what I could stand seemed to be a money deal. I have always been the biggest Eli fan of them all. However, he is making a mistake if he lets his agent quibble about the money. Fuck the money. Tom Brady plays for less money cause he wants to win. It is not about swallowing pride, it is about common sense. Come back at a reduced rate. We can add players. Maybe you mentor a first round QB. Whatever happens, if the Giants lose it's over, if they win, you keep playing. That would be the same for any other team you would be on. Eli needs to stay, make the contract more manageable-extension with no bonus or guarantee- two year deal. The worst thing would be some lingering drama. I'm afraid Eli leaving this up to his agent might be a mistake this time. The golden goose has almost been wrung out, so now his agent is just trying for maximum dollars. That is not in Eli's best interest.
Both DG and JR just haven't given him the chance. ANd imo its too late now for the gmen and Eli.
I hope ELi goes somewhere and wins a SB. He can't do it here. The teama isn't just a QB away even if they build up the OL. And each year ELi will fade from this point.
When I looked at Eli as the clock ran out on the Cowboys game
I tried to imagine what was going through his mind. What I came with to match his expression and body language was "were those really the last 4 passes of my career?" Disappointment and disgust.
to sentimentality. That appeared to be his "M O" in Carolina, which didn't please a few veterans. I'd be shocked if Manning is back on his current contract.
I hate to say it as the BBI'er was just kidding (likely). But they posted a Redskins jersey with Manning on the back. They have a hole at QB and their OL (when healthy) is very good. He could easily slide into a 1 year deal while Alex recovers (if he recovers). It would absolutely suck to see him in the burgundy/gold.
Yeah, I was basically kidding with the Redskin jersey. But are Elis chances for another ring really better here than in Washington or (assuming Dak flames out) Dallas? If the injuries and illnesses clear up, those teams could both have excellent offensive lines.
and say he would wave the no trade clause to play for a contender?
If I'm Eli, then I make that decision on the 6th day of the league year. It is a give/take. Eli gives up the NTC so the Giants can trade him for draft collateral, but it will cost the Giants $5M for that privilege.
RE: Think the Redskins are the worst-case scenario?
I hate to say it as the BBI'er was just kidding (likely). But they posted a Redskins jersey with Manning on the back. They have a hole at QB and their OL (when healthy) is very good. He could easily slide into a 1 year deal while Alex recovers (if he recovers). It would absolutely suck to see him in the burgundy/gold.
Yeah, I was basically kidding with the Redskin jersey. But are Elis chances for another ring really better here than in Washington or (assuming Dak flames out) Dallas? If the injuries and illnesses clear up, those teams could both have excellent offensive lines.
We all saw Washington's OL go down in the one game. I think they lost 3 starters in the one game alone. Prior to that, they were clear front runners in the East preparing to stack some wins. Then the OL went to hell and Alex snapped his twig.
I would hate to see Manning there, but they need a QB. I would be surprised if Alex returns. The money they have committed to him hamstrings them in signing another like Foles. A 1-2 year stop gap while the money clears from Smith's contract is what they will need. They can stick with Colt or try to capture some of the Fitzmagic.
RE: Dallas. I assume Dak will get paid. The question with Dallas is how they are going to pay everyone else. Zeke will need money, Amari will need money, D.Law will need money, etc. They have some big tickets that need to be paid.
But, they like a mobile QB. One of their big complaints about Cousins was that he didn't run enough.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
This is my read...DGs comments about having a very honest convo with Eli likely centered around him telling Eli if hes coming back, its not for $23 million. IMHO
We had a lot of leads late and we werent able to win the game.
I think he walked into Gettlemans office and basically told him that he doesnt want to be here and go through another losing season.
When he said "he took me to the low post and won" leads me to believe that instead of Gettleman telling Eli he needs to do better, it was more Eli telling him if he doesnt fix this mess i'm going to just retire.
Obviously we are all speculating, cjac, that sounds reasonable
I wonder also if this has to do with drafting a QB high. Eli may have said "I want to win now, devote resources towards that, aka 1st rd pick is an OT," meaning ignore the QBs in the draft.
This is where DG may have said "I'm going to do what's best for the Giants."
If you think about DG he may be thinking of trying to do both, field a winning team and develop a QB for the future and the split is Eli is let's go all in this year. This offseason will tell us who won that battle.
RE: RE: People are cofusing actual dollars with cap hit
In actual dollars, the Giants have to pay $17,000,000 for 2019. March 17 is the big day; Manning is due a $5,000,000 roster bonus. If they pay the bonus, he is going to be the qb.
The $23,000,000 is the cap number. He has received his guarantees, so there is a $6,000,000 or so dead cap hit if he is cut.
And no, I don't think he's ready to retire.
I am not following this and I dont really pay attention to the cap stuff. I understand the 6 million cap hit if we cut him, but we also would have to pay him 17 million if he plays 2019. If he is cut isnt that 17 million more cap space?
Correct but remember at that point some of that money needs to be spent on a qb.
RE: The only way Eli is back is if he takes a pay cut
Isnt that obvious at this point? If Eli wants to end his career here he will have to take a pay cut. If he cares more about the money he will find somewhere else to play.
Tom Brady has done it for years... if Eli is the guy everyone says he is and loves the organization, which I think he is and he does, he will be back at 12-15MM a year while they groom a replacement. I think thats the most likely scenario.
It sounded like DG felt the biggest issue this year was the lack of talent on our OL and defense.
that's not how it works. Brady has never taken a pay cut. There is an extention and the salary due is turned into a bonus paid up front but when the package is amortized over the contract length the cap number is lower.
This is my read...DGs comments about having a very honest convo with Eli likely centered around him telling Eli if hes coming back, its not for $23 million. IMHO
If Manning is coming back, the $$$ are 17 million, not 23. The cap hit is 23. Therecare only two ways to lower that: a) cut him or b) extend him. There is no c
This is my read...DGs comments about having a very honest convo with Eli likely centered around him telling Eli if hes coming back, its not for $23 million. IMHO
If Manning is coming back, the $$$ are 17 million, not 23. The cap hit is 23. Therecare only two ways to lower that: a) cut him or b) extend him. There is no c
Good explanation. Not sure if lowering cap hit by extending him makes sense. Tough decision may be coming
But, they like a mobile QB. One of their big complaints about Cousins was that he didn't run enough.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
If Eli is cut, it makes a ton of sense. Eli still gets paid by the Giants and can accept a team friendly contract from the Skins that doesn't kill them when accompanied with Smith. And their OL is very good when healthy. If they add to the OL in the draft and grab Eli and a FA WR this could be a very real outcome.
I heard the interview and thought it was one of the more honest Eli interviews. he really did give a sense of his frustration at losing these past 7-8 years and did intimate that the games were lost at the end with the D on the field (my words, not his).
he is such a likable guy... I wish it wasn't ending this way.
Both parties. Missing the playoffs what, 10 of 15 years? And how many of those years were absolutely brutal on Eli's part? Russel Wilson wins with NO line. Throws 4 TD's a game when his #1 and #2 WR's are out hurt.
Enough. I love 10 ball, always will. Enough of this 5-11 bullshit. Its time, move on. I have seen COUNTLESS plays this year with wide open plays where Eli did not see them for fear of being hit. We need a younger QB who stands in the pocket and delivers, or picks up a 3rd and 5 with his feet instead of chucking it when the blitz comes.
Enough. 10ball will forever be in our hearts, our minds have moved on.
But, they like a mobile QB. One of their big complaints about Cousins was that he didn't run enough.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
If Eli is cut, it makes a ton of sense. Eli still gets paid by the Giants and can accept a team friendly contract from the Skins that doesn't kill them when accompanied with Smith. And their OL is very good when healthy. If they add to the OL in the draft and grab Eli and a FA WR this could be a very real outcome.
Living down here in DC I will be devastated.
Eli wouldn't be paid by the Giants. A vet is entitled to 1 year's salary once in their career if they are released after they are on the final 53. There is no consolation prize to being released before final cutdowns except for any earned bonuses in the interim.
But, they like a mobile QB. One of their big complaints about Cousins was that he didn't run enough.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
If Eli is cut, it makes a ton of sense. Eli still gets paid by the Giants and can accept a team friendly contract from the Skins that doesn't kill them when accompanied with Smith. And their OL is very good when healthy. If they add to the OL in the draft and grab Eli and a FA WR this could be a very real outcome.
Living down here in DC I will be devastated.
Eli wouldn't be paid by the Giants. A vet is entitled to 1 year's salary once in their career if they are released after they are on the final 53. There is no consolation prize to being released before final cutdowns except for any earned bonuses in the interim.
So the money on his contract is only if he makes the roster?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Skins have a good OL when healthy
But, they like a mobile QB. One of their big complaints about Cousins was that he didn't run enough.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
If Eli is cut, it makes a ton of sense. Eli still gets paid by the Giants and can accept a team friendly contract from the Skins that doesn't kill them when accompanied with Smith. And their OL is very good when healthy. If they add to the OL in the draft and grab Eli and a FA WR this could be a very real outcome.
Living down here in DC I will be devastated.
Eli wouldn't be paid by the Giants. A vet is entitled to 1 year's salary once in their career if they are released after they are on the final 53. There is no consolation prize to being released before final cutdowns except for any earned bonuses in the interim.
So the money on his contract is only if he makes the roster?
He has roster bonuses and workout bonuses that are due in the interim. His salary is independent of them. If he collects his salary, he must be on the final 53.
We had a lot of leads late and we werent able to win the game.
I think he walked into Gettlemans office and basically told him that he doesnt want to be here and go through another losing season.
When he said "he took me to the low post and won" leads me to believe that instead of Gettleman telling Eli he needs to do better, it was more Eli telling him if he doesnt fix this mess i'm going to just retire.
Why not this?
ELI:
I think its important you hear this directly from me, so thats why I wanted to come in.
I know you werent here in 2017, but I was dealt a bad hand with our injuries. I didnt complain and competed. Even with all of the other stuff with Ben and the benching, I felt I still had something left in the tank. And you and Pat thought the same thing when you watched game film.
This year we had another new offense with Pat and a lot of new guys. I came in ready to play and we all understood that this might take time to gell. It was tough early, but we stuck with it and found a nice rhythm going in the second half. And that showed up in our final total points. There were games where we got a lead late but struggled to close it out.
Look, I feel good where this thing is going. Ill let you guys make the necessary tweaks but I know I can still lead this team. We found our stride and I want to continue to help this thing move forward.
Ill be honest. I want to retire a Giant. This is all I know. Ive left it all out on that field for 15 years. I know Tom has talked to you about money and that could be an obstacle. Im willing to help the team but this has to be fair in both directions. I know there are other layers here, like a transition plan for the next quarterback, but I think we can work together on those too.
I dont want to beg for my job but I want to make sure you hear my perspective on this season and going forward.
DG:
I appreciate all that. I know Pat feels very similarly. Hes feeling particularly good about the second half performance and finding the best way to keep that going into next year. I think thats important.
And you know John. Hell always be your advocate.
But Im just going to be honest and blunt here, and I said the same thing to Tom. Weve got a lot of holes to plug. And you know know where those are. Weve got the cap to manage and I just cant get you to a number thats close to where you are now. That just has to be said. But I want to be respectful and not go nuts either. So we just need more time to evaluate. Lets reconnect in about a month after weve done all the exit interviews and we complete the film review.
Im aware you and Tom might put out feelers to judge other opportunities. I get it and have no issues. And if something gets interesting let me know right away so we can talk it through with you, Tom, John and Pat...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Skins have a good OL when healthy
But, they like a mobile QB. One of their big complaints about Cousins was that he didn't run enough.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
If Eli is cut, it makes a ton of sense. Eli still gets paid by the Giants and can accept a team friendly contract from the Skins that doesn't kill them when accompanied with Smith. And their OL is very good when healthy. If they add to the OL in the draft and grab Eli and a FA WR this could be a very real outcome.
Living down here in DC I will be devastated.
Eli wouldn't be paid by the Giants. A vet is entitled to 1 year's salary once in their career if they are released after they are on the final 53. There is no consolation prize to being released before final cutdowns except for any earned bonuses in the interim.
So the money on his contract is only if he makes the roster?
He has roster bonuses and workout bonuses that are due in the interim. His salary is independent of them. If he collects his salary, he must be on the final 53.
Gotcha. Well that may throw a wrench in the Skins deal. Good.
i don't why but that made me laugh... it was so descriptive.
truth is, it could also have gone exactly like that. I think DG stating "Eli took me to the low pats and won" suggests Eli putting the screws to SG more than the other way around which is why I think most here are interpreting the meeting being one of Eli telling DG "I am done getting my ass handed to me every week. I am doing my part, now fix the O Line and the Defense and let's go win for a change"
Plus I also think Archie saying what he said in the press is telling.
just blaming the D hes blaming the whole team. Take the last DAL game - 4th and 10 he throws a strike to Latimer who cant make the contested catch with the game on the line.
This team - from a personnel standpoint - is so far removed from what he played in from 04-12 before the wheels fell off and its been 7 years of crap since. Nobody steps up, nonody makes the big play. Hell at one point Bradshaw was 3rd string RB, Hixon #4WR. Beast OL, great pass rushing D going 8-deep up front.
We are so far from that, and have been for so long, its disgusting. And quite frankly, there is little hope of having that kind of team in 19.
I think a lot of you are superimposing your own beliefs
What I heard was a guy who hates losing and wants to win and feels he still has it.
He likes the direction the team is going in and had fun during the second half.
He thinks the team is on the right track and has a lot of high character guys on it.
He wants to come back and whats best for the Giants.
I think you have to discount tone -- this is Eli Manning - he talks funny -- I think you need to take him at face value
I think he wants to come out on top again and do what it takes on his part to do that --
That could mean contract adjustments -- he certainly said he appreciated the way they handled the Right Tackle and Right Guard changes during the season
RE: I think a lot of you are superimposing your own beliefs
What I heard was a guy who hates losing and wants to win and feels he still has it.
He likes the direction the team is going in and had fun during the second half.
He thinks the team is on the right track and has a lot of high character guys on it.
He wants to come back and whats best for the Giants.
I think you have to discount tone -- this is Eli Manning - he talks funny -- I think you need to take him at face value
I think he wants to come out on top again and do what it takes on his part to do that --
That could mean contract adjustments -- he certainly said he appreciated the way they handled the Right Tackle and Right Guard changes during the season
👍
RE: RE: These guys are all negotiating and biding time
the Manning's never leave money on the table, the Giants don't want to give him 23 million. As of now, I think there is a lot of posturing going on. If the Giants tell Eli they want him back, what leverage do they have to renegotiate with him? If Eli says he isn't opposed to retiring or playing with another team, what leverage does he have against being cut? It is all a guessing game from our outside perspective. Maybe Gettleman loves one of the QBs (either FA or draft) and is holding out. Maybe he doesn't but wants Eli back at a much more reasonable number. We really don't know anything and all the guessing in the world is not going to lead us to a satisfactory answer because we just do not have enough information.
You've said that on multiple threads and I still don't get what it means. "The Mannings don't leave money on the able..."
Neither Peyton or Eli have ever given the deep discounts like Brady. Archie zealously protects his sons positions (which is his right as their parent), but this thought that Eli was going to come in here and say you know what I have not been the same guy, renegotiate and say give me 14 million so we can win next year was never going to happen. The only way Eli will take less money is if he does not believe he can get more money. Some stars do not take that attitude, especially ones that earn income from outside deals.
its just the way the Mannings do business. Its Eli who is sacrificing his body every week and I have no right to tell him what he should be compensated for it. My observation is all I am giving, not an opinion on whether its right or wrong.
Eli knows the Giants are going to ask him to take a pay cut because they are not going to pay him $16.5 million cash next season ($11.5 salary + $5.0 roster bonus). As such, Eli is posturing for some kind of extension in exchange for the paycut. Eli knows the end is near and that the future QB of the Giants will be on the roster sooner rather than later. I think Eli believes with another good offseason, the Giants will be back in the playoffs next year and possibly contending to go deep in 2 years and he wants to be part of that.
I have been saying for two years that it makes no sense for Eli, with his age and lack of mobility to continue to play for the Giants given the poor state of the roster. No one wants to go out a loser and Eli is both incapable of lifting this team to the playoffs by himself and too old to want to wait for the pieces to all be put in place. Will he leave? I still doubt it, and I cannot think of any team which can protect him, has the players to make the playoffs and needs a QB.
Here is the thing giving up dollars to get the OL help specifically lets him stay and put the O in a place to fight for the division from a legit position. Will letting the GM sure up the DL and 2ndary via other means. Ok he can balk and go to Jax for a yr and see how that goes ... that is the ONLY team that really is a fit for him as a "contender" .... TB if the wants to battle with Jamison ....
Eli knows the Giants are going to ask him to take a pay cut because they are not going to pay him $16.5 million cash next season ($11.5 salary + $5.0 roster bonus). As such, Eli is posturing for some kind of extension in exchange for the paycut. Eli knows the end is near and that the future QB of the Giants will be on the roster sooner rather than later. I think Eli believes with another good offseason, the Giants will be back in the playoffs next year and possibly contending to go deep in 2 years and he wants to be part of that.
No, even with an A+ level offseason, this is NOT a playoff contender. There is not enough cap space to keep Eli (even with a BIG pay cut) and rebuild the defense and hit home runs on their picks to make this a 9-10 win team.
This is the offseason that the team cuts/trades a LOT of vets- including Eli- so that they can continue to build in the draft, and then add in a FA splurge after next season.
Eli knows the Giants are going to ask him to take a pay cut because they are not going to pay him $16.5 million cash next season ($11.5 salary + $5.0 roster bonus). As such, Eli is posturing for some kind of extension in exchange for the paycut. Eli knows the end is near and that the future QB of the Giants will be on the roster sooner rather than later. I think Eli believes with another good offseason, the Giants will be back in the playoffs next year and possibly contending to go deep in 2 years and he wants to be part of that.
No, even with an A+ level offseason, this is NOT a playoff contender. There is not enough cap space to keep Eli (even with a BIG pay cut) and rebuild the defense and hit home runs on their picks to make this a 9-10 win team.
This is the offseason that the team cuts/trades a LOT of vets- including Eli- so that they can continue to build in the draft, and then add in a FA splurge after next season.
Perhaps, but my post was from Eli's perspective, not what I think about the team.
However, FWIW, who are these vets that they're cutting? There are 12 guys on the roster from the 2017 season that are under contract. With the exception of 1 or 2 guys, the 2018 F/A signings and draft picks are not going anywhere. I highly doubt they try to rebuild the defense thru top end free agency. That's what Reese tried to do and failed. This will be done thru the draft and second and third tier free agents plus the maturation of young guys on the roster today. And considering that in the last month of the season the Giants beat 1 playoff team and lost to 3 others by a combined total of 5 points, not convinced the team does not think they will be a playoff team in 2019.
RE: RE: RE: These guys are all negotiating and biding time
the Manning's never leave money on the table, the Giants don't want to give him 23 million. As of now, I think there is a lot of posturing going on. If the Giants tell Eli they want him back, what leverage do they have to renegotiate with him? If Eli says he isn't opposed to retiring or playing with another team, what leverage does he have against being cut? It is all a guessing game from our outside perspective. Maybe Gettleman loves one of the QBs (either FA or draft) and is holding out. Maybe he doesn't but wants Eli back at a much more reasonable number. We really don't know anything and all the guessing in the world is not going to lead us to a satisfactory answer because we just do not have enough information.
You've said that on multiple threads and I still don't get what it means. "The Mannings don't leave money on the able..."
Neither Peyton or Eli have ever given the deep discounts like Brady. Archie zealously protects his sons positions (which is his right as their parent), but this thought that Eli was going to come in here and say you know what I have not been the same guy, renegotiate and say give me 14 million so we can win next year was never going to happen. The only way Eli will take less money is if he does not believe he can get more money. Some stars do not take that attitude, especially ones that earn income from outside deals.
NO player takes a cut outside of Brady and I'm still not sure he really did that either. Every player gets what the team or market is willing to give them. No one takes a cut or less money unless they have to. That is true in life and football.
After reading Archie Manning's statement about what Eli might do, the determining factor appears to be whether the Giants get good enough to get into the post season where Eli's a wildcard and can take a competent team deep into the playoffs. I seriously doubt he would be willing to play another season where he's getting his butt kicked and losing games because the D can't hold a lead in the last minute of the game.
RE: Im not sure Eli would have offers from other teams
I mean, I think his performance the past few years has more to do with the lack of pass protection than anything else. But, the narrative on him is terrible. And hes 38. Where would he play?
Jacksonville and Tennessee both make sense (assuming Tennessee finally realizes Mariota will never be a good, quick release pocket passer that will enable him to avoid injury most seasons)
Miami i suppose is in flux with new coach and Tannehill a ?
Denver i dont think he'd consider since there's some ill-will there b/w Peyton and Elway
Skins, i guess... but its hard to see that.
That's about it, right?
RE: RE: Im not sure Eli would have offers from other teams
I mean, I think his performance the past few years has more to do with the lack of pass protection than anything else. But, the narrative on him is terrible. And hes 38. Where would he play?
Jacksonville and Tennessee both make sense (assuming Tennessee finally realizes Mariota will never be a good, quick release pocket passer that will enable him to avoid injury most seasons)
Miami i suppose is in flux with new coach and Tannehill a ?
Denver i dont think he'd consider since there's some ill-will there b/w Peyton and Elway
Skins, i guess... but its hard to see that.
That's about it, right?
That is the first time, I ever heard Tenn. being a possible destination. The problem is that they have picked up his 5th year option at $21M. If he can't pass a physical at the start of the league year, then the Titans are on the hook.
Jacksonville already has a money issue with Bortles
Because he makes it up with his TB12 Sports Therapy Center company located right next to Gillette stadium.
Quote:
The Globe report states that the Patriots pay the center's market rate of $200 per hour to treat players while other physical therapy companies pay large sums of money to sponsor teams like the Eagles and Bears. The Patriots' payment for services could potentially be viewed as providing Brady with "additional value" outside his contract, which is not allowed under the collective bargaining agreement. Quoting directly from the report.
RE: RE: RE: Im not sure Eli would have offers from other teams
I mean, I think his performance the past few years has more to do with the lack of pass protection than anything else. But, the narrative on him is terrible. And hes 38. Where would he play?
Jacksonville and Tennessee both make sense (assuming Tennessee finally realizes Mariota will never be a good, quick release pocket passer that will enable him to avoid injury most seasons)
Miami i suppose is in flux with new coach and Tannehill a ?
Denver i dont think he'd consider since there's some ill-will there b/w Peyton and Elway
Skins, i guess... but its hard to see that.
That's about it, right?
That is the first time, I ever heard Tenn. being a possible destination. The problem is that they have picked up his 5th year option at $21M. If he can't pass a physical at the start of the league year, then the Titans are on the hook.
I haven't read all the analysis. Just thinking it through in my head without contract details. I just know Tennessee has a good defense, a good line, a good two man running game in Jacobs II and Dion Lewis, and a star WR in the making in Corey Davis who simply needs a pro QB throwing to him.
He will pass his physical. And new coaches and even an owner ... but always though to admit mistakes like Mariota to your fan base I guess. He will never win for them. I watched a lot of their games this year - he is so slow with awareness and pocket presence
You've said that on multiple threads and I still don't get what it means. "The Mannings don't leave money on the able..."
Eli's had a good run and he's made a ton of money. If he goes somewhere else, I honestly hope he's not making a mistake and picks somewhere that gives him a chance to function and succeed. I'd rather not see him struggle for one last year in another uniform (although I'm certain if I were him I'd rather take in one more year of salary regardless).
We are going to find out. when pressed about Elis play in 2018. The hope was for Eli to play well, compete for the division & he could be the guy for another 2-3 years. It hasnt turned out this way & I think the plan is to move on.
Its sad. Even if its in the best interest of the Giants & Eli - its sad.
We are going to find out. when pressed about Elis play in 2018. The hope was for Eli to play well, compete for the division & he could be the guy for another 2-3 years. It hasnt turned out this way & I think the plan is to move on.
Its sad. Even if its in the best interest of the Giants & Eli - its sad.
Finally
And hes insulted.
I hope ELi goes somewhere and wins a SB. He can't do it here. The teama isn't just a QB away even if they build up the OL. And each year ELi will fade from this point.
If I'm Eli, then I make that decision on the 6th day of the league year. It is a give/take. Eli gives up the NTC so the Giants can trade him for draft collateral, but it will cost the Giants $5M for that privilege.
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I hate to say it as the BBI'er was just kidding (likely). But they posted a Redskins jersey with Manning on the back. They have a hole at QB and their OL (when healthy) is very good. He could easily slide into a 1 year deal while Alex recovers (if he recovers). It would absolutely suck to see him in the burgundy/gold.
Yeah, I was basically kidding with the Redskin jersey. But are Elis chances for another ring really better here than in Washington or (assuming Dak flames out) Dallas? If the injuries and illnesses clear up, those teams could both have excellent offensive lines.
We all saw Washington's OL go down in the one game. I think they lost 3 starters in the one game alone. Prior to that, they were clear front runners in the East preparing to stack some wins. Then the OL went to hell and Alex snapped his twig.
I would hate to see Manning there, but they need a QB. I would be surprised if Alex returns. The money they have committed to him hamstrings them in signing another like Foles. A 1-2 year stop gap while the money clears from Smith's contract is what they will need. They can stick with Colt or try to capture some of the Fitzmagic.
RE: Dallas. I assume Dak will get paid. The question with Dallas is how they are going to pay everyone else. Zeke will need money, Amari will need money, D.Law will need money, etc. They have some big tickets that need to be paid.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
And hes insulted.
This is my read...DGs comments about having a very honest convo with Eli likely centered around him telling Eli if hes coming back, its not for $23 million. IMHO
I think he walked into Gettlemans office and basically told him that he doesnt want to be here and go through another losing season.
When he said "he took me to the low post and won" leads me to believe that instead of Gettleman telling Eli he needs to do better, it was more Eli telling him if he doesnt fix this mess i'm going to just retire.
This is where DG may have said "I'm going to do what's best for the Giants."
If you think about DG he may be thinking of trying to do both, field a winning team and develop a QB for the future and the split is Eli is let's go all in this year. This offseason will tell us who won that battle.
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In actual dollars, the Giants have to pay $17,000,000 for 2019. March 17 is the big day; Manning is due a $5,000,000 roster bonus. If they pay the bonus, he is going to be the qb.
The $23,000,000 is the cap number. He has received his guarantees, so there is a $6,000,000 or so dead cap hit if he is cut.
And no, I don't think he's ready to retire.
I am not following this and I dont really pay attention to the cap stuff. I understand the 6 million cap hit if we cut him, but we also would have to pay him 17 million if he plays 2019. If he is cut isnt that 17 million more cap space?
Tom Brady has done it for years... if Eli is the guy everyone says he is and loves the organization, which I think he is and he does, he will be back at 12-15MM a year while they groom a replacement. I think thats the most likely scenario.
It sounded like DG felt the biggest issue this year was the lack of talent on our OL and defense.
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Eli can stay if he takes a significant haircut.
And hes insulted.
This is my read...DGs comments about having a very honest convo with Eli likely centered around him telling Eli if hes coming back, its not for $23 million. IMHO
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In comment 14245354 bw in dc said:
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Eli can stay if he takes a significant haircut.
And hes insulted.
This is my read...DGs comments about having a very honest convo with Eli likely centered around him telling Eli if hes coming back, its not for $23 million. IMHO
If Manning is coming back, the $$$ are 17 million, not 23. The cap hit is 23. Therecare only two ways to lower that: a) cut him or b) extend him. There is no c
Good explanation. Not sure if lowering cap hit by extending him makes sense. Tough decision may be coming
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But, they like a mobile QB. One of their big complaints about Cousins was that he didn't run enough.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
If Eli is cut, it makes a ton of sense. Eli still gets paid by the Giants and can accept a team friendly contract from the Skins that doesn't kill them when accompanied with Smith. And their OL is very good when healthy. If they add to the OL in the draft and grab Eli and a FA WR this could be a very real outcome.
Living down here in DC I will be devastated.
he is such a likable guy... I wish it wasn't ending this way.
Enough. I love 10 ball, always will. Enough of this 5-11 bullshit. Its time, move on. I have seen COUNTLESS plays this year with wide open plays where Eli did not see them for fear of being hit. We need a younger QB who stands in the pocket and delivers, or picks up a 3rd and 5 with his feet instead of chucking it when the blitz comes.
Enough. 10ball will forever be in our hearts, our minds have moved on.
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In comment 14245456 ZogZerg said:
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But, they like a mobile QB. One of their big complaints about Cousins was that he didn't run enough.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
If Eli is cut, it makes a ton of sense. Eli still gets paid by the Giants and can accept a team friendly contract from the Skins that doesn't kill them when accompanied with Smith. And their OL is very good when healthy. If they add to the OL in the draft and grab Eli and a FA WR this could be a very real outcome.
Living down here in DC I will be devastated.
Eli wouldn't be paid by the Giants. A vet is entitled to 1 year's salary once in their career if they are released after they are on the final 53. There is no consolation prize to being released before final cutdowns except for any earned bonuses in the interim.
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In comment 14245458 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 14245456 ZogZerg said:
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But, they like a mobile QB. One of their big complaints about Cousins was that he didn't run enough.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
If Eli is cut, it makes a ton of sense. Eli still gets paid by the Giants and can accept a team friendly contract from the Skins that doesn't kill them when accompanied with Smith. And their OL is very good when healthy. If they add to the OL in the draft and grab Eli and a FA WR this could be a very real outcome.
Living down here in DC I will be devastated.
Eli wouldn't be paid by the Giants. A vet is entitled to 1 year's salary once in their career if they are released after they are on the final 53. There is no consolation prize to being released before final cutdowns except for any earned bonuses in the interim.
So the money on his contract is only if he makes the roster?
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In comment 14245518 bradshaw44 said:
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In comment 14245458 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 14245456 ZogZerg said:
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But, they like a mobile QB. One of their big complaints about Cousins was that he didn't run enough.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
If Eli is cut, it makes a ton of sense. Eli still gets paid by the Giants and can accept a team friendly contract from the Skins that doesn't kill them when accompanied with Smith. And their OL is very good when healthy. If they add to the OL in the draft and grab Eli and a FA WR this could be a very real outcome.
Living down here in DC I will be devastated.
Eli wouldn't be paid by the Giants. A vet is entitled to 1 year's salary once in their career if they are released after they are on the final 53. There is no consolation prize to being released before final cutdowns except for any earned bonuses in the interim.
So the money on his contract is only if he makes the roster?
He has roster bonuses and workout bonuses that are due in the interim. His salary is independent of them. If he collects his salary, he must be on the final 53.
I think he walked into Gettlemans office and basically told him that he doesnt want to be here and go through another losing season.
When he said "he took me to the low post and won" leads me to believe that instead of Gettleman telling Eli he needs to do better, it was more Eli telling him if he doesnt fix this mess i'm going to just retire.
Why not this?
ELI:
I think its important you hear this directly from me, so thats why I wanted to come in.
I know you werent here in 2017, but I was dealt a bad hand with our injuries. I didnt complain and competed. Even with all of the other stuff with Ben and the benching, I felt I still had something left in the tank. And you and Pat thought the same thing when you watched game film.
This year we had another new offense with Pat and a lot of new guys. I came in ready to play and we all understood that this might take time to gell. It was tough early, but we stuck with it and found a nice rhythm going in the second half. And that showed up in our final total points. There were games where we got a lead late but struggled to close it out.
Look, I feel good where this thing is going. Ill let you guys make the necessary tweaks but I know I can still lead this team. We found our stride and I want to continue to help this thing move forward.
Ill be honest. I want to retire a Giant. This is all I know. Ive left it all out on that field for 15 years. I know Tom has talked to you about money and that could be an obstacle. Im willing to help the team but this has to be fair in both directions. I know there are other layers here, like a transition plan for the next quarterback, but I think we can work together on those too.
I dont want to beg for my job but I want to make sure you hear my perspective on this season and going forward.
DG:
I appreciate all that. I know Pat feels very similarly. Hes feeling particularly good about the second half performance and finding the best way to keep that going into next year. I think thats important.
And you know John. Hell always be your advocate.
But Im just going to be honest and blunt here, and I said the same thing to Tom. Weve got a lot of holes to plug. And you know know where those are. Weve got the cap to manage and I just cant get you to a number thats close to where you are now. That just has to be said. But I want to be respectful and not go nuts either. So we just need more time to evaluate. Lets reconnect in about a month after weve done all the exit interviews and we complete the film review.
Im aware you and Tom might put out feelers to judge other opportunities. I get it and have no issues. And if something gets interesting let me know right away so we can talk it through with you, Tom, John and Pat...
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In comment 14245529 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 14245518 bradshaw44 said:
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In comment 14245458 Diver_Down said:
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In comment 14245456 ZogZerg said:
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But, they like a mobile QB. One of their big complaints about Cousins was that he didn't run enough.
They are in a unique situation due to the contract guarantees to Smith. What the Skins like and what they will settle for are 2 different things. I see their choices as being very limited. Hope and pray that Alex can play again. Hope that Colt with a full off-season can elevate his play. Maybe get lucky with the draft. Sign a Fitz, McCown, Tier 2 QB. They won't be able to afford Foles. If somehow Eli is available, he is the best option beyond the hope/prayer for Smith.
If Eli is cut, it makes a ton of sense. Eli still gets paid by the Giants and can accept a team friendly contract from the Skins that doesn't kill them when accompanied with Smith. And their OL is very good when healthy. If they add to the OL in the draft and grab Eli and a FA WR this could be a very real outcome.
Living down here in DC I will be devastated.
Eli wouldn't be paid by the Giants. A vet is entitled to 1 year's salary once in their career if they are released after they are on the final 53. There is no consolation prize to being released before final cutdowns except for any earned bonuses in the interim.
So the money on his contract is only if he makes the roster?
He has roster bonuses and workout bonuses that are due in the interim. His salary is independent of them. If he collects his salary, he must be on the final 53.
Gotcha. Well that may throw a wrench in the Skins deal. Good.
truth is, it could also have gone exactly like that. I think DG stating "Eli took me to the low pats and won" suggests Eli putting the screws to SG more than the other way around which is why I think most here are interpreting the meeting being one of Eli telling DG "I am done getting my ass handed to me every week. I am doing my part, now fix the O Line and the Defense and let's go win for a change"
Plus I also think Archie saying what he said in the press is telling.
This team - from a personnel standpoint - is so far removed from what he played in from 04-12 before the wheels fell off and its been 7 years of crap since. Nobody steps up, nonody makes the big play. Hell at one point Bradshaw was 3rd string RB, Hixon #4WR. Beast OL, great pass rushing D going 8-deep up front.
We are so far from that, and have been for so long, its disgusting. And quite frankly, there is little hope of having that kind of team in 19.
What I heard was a guy who hates losing and wants to win and feels he still has it.
He likes the direction the team is going in and had fun during the second half.
He thinks the team is on the right track and has a lot of high character guys on it.
He wants to come back and whats best for the Giants.
I think you have to discount tone -- this is Eli Manning - he talks funny -- I think you need to take him at face value
I think he wants to come out on top again and do what it takes on his part to do that --
That could mean contract adjustments -- he certainly said he appreciated the way they handled the Right Tackle and Right Guard changes during the season
What I heard was a guy who hates losing and wants to win and feels he still has it.
He likes the direction the team is going in and had fun during the second half.
He thinks the team is on the right track and has a lot of high character guys on it.
He wants to come back and whats best for the Giants.
I think you have to discount tone -- this is Eli Manning - he talks funny -- I think you need to take him at face value
I think he wants to come out on top again and do what it takes on his part to do that --
That could mean contract adjustments -- he certainly said he appreciated the way they handled the Right Tackle and Right Guard changes during the season
👍
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the Manning's never leave money on the table, the Giants don't want to give him 23 million. As of now, I think there is a lot of posturing going on. If the Giants tell Eli they want him back, what leverage do they have to renegotiate with him? If Eli says he isn't opposed to retiring or playing with another team, what leverage does he have against being cut? It is all a guessing game from our outside perspective. Maybe Gettleman loves one of the QBs (either FA or draft) and is holding out. Maybe he doesn't but wants Eli back at a much more reasonable number. We really don't know anything and all the guessing in the world is not going to lead us to a satisfactory answer because we just do not have enough information.
You've said that on multiple threads and I still don't get what it means. "The Mannings don't leave money on the able..."
Neither Peyton or Eli have ever given the deep discounts like Brady. Archie zealously protects his sons positions (which is his right as their parent), but this thought that Eli was going to come in here and say you know what I have not been the same guy, renegotiate and say give me 14 million so we can win next year was never going to happen. The only way Eli will take less money is if he does not believe he can get more money. Some stars do not take that attitude, especially ones that earn income from outside deals.
Here is the thing giving up dollars to get the OL help specifically lets him stay and put the O in a place to fight for the division from a legit position. Will letting the GM sure up the DL and 2ndary via other means. Ok he can balk and go to Jax for a yr and see how that goes ... that is the ONLY team that really is a fit for him as a "contender" .... TB if the wants to battle with Jamison ....
No, even with an A+ level offseason, this is NOT a playoff contender. There is not enough cap space to keep Eli (even with a BIG pay cut) and rebuild the defense and hit home runs on their picks to make this a 9-10 win team.
This is the offseason that the team cuts/trades a LOT of vets- including Eli- so that they can continue to build in the draft, and then add in a FA splurge after next season.
Eli is who he is at this point. He is not inured. So what are the decisions yo5be made?
Situation is strange and I think it's over for Eli here. This is the end of an era.
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Eli knows the Giants are going to ask him to take a pay cut because they are not going to pay him $16.5 million cash next season ($11.5 salary + $5.0 roster bonus). As such, Eli is posturing for some kind of extension in exchange for the paycut. Eli knows the end is near and that the future QB of the Giants will be on the roster sooner rather than later. I think Eli believes with another good offseason, the Giants will be back in the playoffs next year and possibly contending to go deep in 2 years and he wants to be part of that.
No, even with an A+ level offseason, this is NOT a playoff contender. There is not enough cap space to keep Eli (even with a BIG pay cut) and rebuild the defense and hit home runs on their picks to make this a 9-10 win team.
This is the offseason that the team cuts/trades a LOT of vets- including Eli- so that they can continue to build in the draft, and then add in a FA splurge after next season.
Perhaps, but my post was from Eli's perspective, not what I think about the team.
However, FWIW, who are these vets that they're cutting? There are 12 guys on the roster from the 2017 season that are under contract. With the exception of 1 or 2 guys, the 2018 F/A signings and draft picks are not going anywhere. I highly doubt they try to rebuild the defense thru top end free agency. That's what Reese tried to do and failed. This will be done thru the draft and second and third tier free agents plus the maturation of young guys on the roster today. And considering that in the last month of the season the Giants beat 1 playoff team and lost to 3 others by a combined total of 5 points, not convinced the team does not think they will be a playoff team in 2019.
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In comment 14244892 Essex said:
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the Manning's never leave money on the table, the Giants don't want to give him 23 million. As of now, I think there is a lot of posturing going on. If the Giants tell Eli they want him back, what leverage do they have to renegotiate with him? If Eli says he isn't opposed to retiring or playing with another team, what leverage does he have against being cut? It is all a guessing game from our outside perspective. Maybe Gettleman loves one of the QBs (either FA or draft) and is holding out. Maybe he doesn't but wants Eli back at a much more reasonable number. We really don't know anything and all the guessing in the world is not going to lead us to a satisfactory answer because we just do not have enough information.
You've said that on multiple threads and I still don't get what it means. "The Mannings don't leave money on the able..."
Neither Peyton or Eli have ever given the deep discounts like Brady. Archie zealously protects his sons positions (which is his right as their parent), but this thought that Eli was going to come in here and say you know what I have not been the same guy, renegotiate and say give me 14 million so we can win next year was never going to happen. The only way Eli will take less money is if he does not believe he can get more money. Some stars do not take that attitude, especially ones that earn income from outside deals.
NO player takes a cut outside of Brady and I'm still not sure he really did that either. Every player gets what the team or market is willing to give them. No one takes a cut or less money unless they have to. That is true in life and football.
Jacksonville and Tennessee both make sense (assuming Tennessee finally realizes Mariota will never be a good, quick release pocket passer that will enable him to avoid injury most seasons)
Miami i suppose is in flux with new coach and Tannehill a ?
Denver i dont think he'd consider since there's some ill-will there b/w Peyton and Elway
Skins, i guess... but its hard to see that.
That's about it, right?
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I mean, I think his performance the past few years has more to do with the lack of pass protection than anything else. But, the narrative on him is terrible. And hes 38. Where would he play?
Jacksonville and Tennessee both make sense (assuming Tennessee finally realizes Mariota will never be a good, quick release pocket passer that will enable him to avoid injury most seasons)
Miami i suppose is in flux with new coach and Tannehill a ?
Denver i dont think he'd consider since there's some ill-will there b/w Peyton and Elway
Skins, i guess... but its hard to see that.
That's about it, right?
That is the first time, I ever heard Tenn. being a possible destination. The problem is that they have picked up his 5th year option at $21M. If he can't pass a physical at the start of the league year, then the Titans are on the hook.
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In comment 14244912 exiled said:
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I mean, I think his performance the past few years has more to do with the lack of pass protection than anything else. But, the narrative on him is terrible. And hes 38. Where would he play?
Jacksonville and Tennessee both make sense (assuming Tennessee finally realizes Mariota will never be a good, quick release pocket passer that will enable him to avoid injury most seasons)
Miami i suppose is in flux with new coach and Tannehill a ?
Denver i dont think he'd consider since there's some ill-will there b/w Peyton and Elway
Skins, i guess... but its hard to see that.
That's about it, right?
That is the first time, I ever heard Tenn. being a possible destination. The problem is that they have picked up his 5th year option at $21M. If he can't pass a physical at the start of the league year, then the Titans are on the hook.
I haven't read all the analysis. Just thinking it through in my head without contract details. I just know Tennessee has a good defense, a good line, a good two man running game in Jacobs II and Dion Lewis, and a star WR in the making in Corey Davis who simply needs a pro QB throwing to him.
He will pass his physical. And new coaches and even an owner ... but always though to admit mistakes like Mariota to your fan base I guess. He will never win for them. I watched a lot of their games this year - he is so slow with awareness and pocket presence