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This narrative that it’s the defense fault is wrong

twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 7:09 pm
Recently we are seeing this rush to say the defense is the reason the Giants are bad.

This is incorrect.

The Giants may have been eliminated by the Titans but the season ended at 1-7.

Shurmur and Eli have been talking about “close” and “competitive” games that we lost by single digits.

Now the defense may have blown the games to both the Colts and the cOwboys, but the truth is the Giants would be 7-9 and out of the playoffs with those wins anyway.

The fact of the matter is

The Giants started 0-2 and the defense allowed 20 pts in both games. The offense managed just 15 pts and 13 pts.

In fact the Giants scored 20 pts or less in 6 of the first 8 games, Hiw many games could possibly be won with those numbers? The season was over at that point.

Furthermore, the Giants suffered 5 single digit losses in this stretch and in 4 of them the opposition scored 20, 20, 23, 20. So was it the defense that caused those losses? Or was it the defense keeping them “close” and “competitive”?

The Giants were eliminated to the extent that they dumped off Eli Apple and Snacks and thus hurting the defense because the season was already over.

On top of it- in the 5 Giants win. The defense got 2 turnovers vs Texans, got 2 turnovers in San Fran, 4 turnovers including a defensive TD vs Tampa, 3 turnovers and a defensive TD vs the Bears, and 3 turnovers and a defensive TD vs the Redskins.

You are looking at multiple turnovers in 4 of the wins and and 3/4 turnovers and defensive TDs in 3 of the wins.

Eli Manning threw under 200 yards in 3 of the wins.

If the Titans game was a “single score game for a long time”as Shurmur said it was because of the defense and not our offense which got shutout.

The Giants this year were bad. The offense was bad and the defense became bad as the season wore in and long after it was over and pieces were removed from the team.

I’m sorry but this was not the story of a great offense being subjected to blown game after blown game by the defense. That may have happened in the last 2 meaningless games but it’s not the story of the season.
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Britt-  
Dnew15 : 1/3/2019 9:37 am : link
I'm not claiming that the Eli is the only problem. He is part of it though.
It's a chicken and egg debate.
Last Sunday's game against the Cowboys is a perfect example of how both are the problem.
The Giants defense couldn't stop some no name TE to preserve a win and then Eli couldn't get the offense 30 yards with a minute left (and a TO) for a potential game winning FG.
They both suck at this point and I'm tired of watching both knowing what the final outcome is going to be.
RE: He had 3 in two years!  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 9:37 am : link
In comment 14245619 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
by comparison:
Dak has 9
Wentz and Foles combined for 7
Shoot - the Redskins duo of "Big Game Choke Artist" Kirk Cousins had 4 and Josh Johnson had 1 in 3 games for Washington.


How many did the defenses blow? And we are really using the 2017 team who was decimated by injuries on both sides of the ball.

The defense gave up the lead 6 times on final drives this year. SIX TIMES!!!!
RE: Britt-  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 9:39 am : link
In comment 14245642 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
I'm not claiming that the Eli is the only problem. He is part of it though.
It's a chicken and egg debate.
Last Sunday's game against the Cowboys is a perfect example of how both are the problem.
The Giants defense couldn't stop some no name TE to preserve a win and then Eli couldn't get the offense 30 yards with a minute left (and a TO) for a potential game winning FG.
They both suck at this point and I'm tired of watching both knowing what the final outcome is going to be.


Yes, it is a team game and on a losing team everybody is to blame.

I just don't understand threads like these trying to absolve what everybody knows to be a sh-tty defense.

It's weird.
RE: When you have a team  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 9:45 am : link
In comment 14245589 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
that has a defense that can't get a key stop to win a game and QB that can't lead a team to victory with a game winning drive the team will go 8-28 over a two year stretch.
They are both a problem, that will take years to fix.
yup
RE: In the 5 games I listed  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14245572 dep026 said:
Quote:
the Giants TOP was higher in 3 of the 5 games. Worn out? Good try Les. You may get one right sooner or later.
the Giants were 29th in time of possession 25th in third down conversion percentage in the nfl and 14th in pints. The offense did not sustain drives consistently this season. The defense was not good enough to win games on their own like they did throughout the 2007 and 2011 playoffs or more recently 2016
it is totally weird Britt  
Dnew15 : 1/3/2019 9:58 am : link
It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.
RE: RE: In the 5 games I listed  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 9:59 am : link
In comment 14245691 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 14245572 dep026 said:


Quote:


the Giants TOP was higher in 3 of the 5 games. Worn out? Good try Les. You may get one right sooner or later.

the Giants were 29th in time of possession 25th in third down conversion percentage in the nfl and 14th in pints. The offense did not sustain drives consistently this season. The defense was not good enough to win games on their own like they did throughout the 2007 and 2011 playoffs or more recently 2016


What about the first 8 games in which I mentioned? Where the TOP was much different? What about the 3 games in the 5 game stretch where they couldnt get off the field when they had the ball longer than their opponents?

The defense sucked at the end of the year.... we all know this. But the the fact is they sucked at the beginning too.
It's just..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 9:59 am : link
a fucking joke at this point:

Quote:
The defense was not good enough to win games on their own like they did throughout the 2007 and 2011 playoffs or more recently 2016


The defense won playoff games on their own?

The fucking lengths one will go combined with a subpar Canadian education system gives us nuggets of shit like this....
RE: it is totally weird Britt  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14245695 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.


Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.
How can the mods  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:06 am : link
not see Les is just here to troll from this point on?
Responding to threads that  
Dnew15 : 1/3/2019 10:08 am : link
are slamming him - no doubt.
Again  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:12 am : link
no one is saying the offense didnt have a part of the poor start. of course they did.

Whats eye scratching is people are still blaming the offense for the last two games. Thats where the problem lies with assessing blame.

Can we blame the offense for a no show against Jax, Dallas first time, Washington, and Atlanta. Absolutely. No one is innocent in those games.

But the narratives that Eli cant lead us from behind (false.)
The narrative that the offense failed us in the last two games (false)
The narrative that the defense was worn down early (false)

We have to separate fantasy from reality at some point.
RE: I am loyal  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/3/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14245461 dep026 said:
Quote:
What can I say. I think I speak for a lot of posters who wish you and your kind either grow up or leave. I’ll settle for either.

Loyal enough to get banned and spend the better part of a year supposedly claiming to not want to come back. That's how you know it's true loyalty, right?

I agree though. I also wish some posters would either grow up or leave. I'll settle for either too.
RE: RE: it is totally weird Britt  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/3/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14245701 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14245695 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.



Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.

When they're replying within a minute of the OP, is there even a difference anymore? Sitting on the main page and hitting refresh so they can immediately jump into a new thread isn't any less frightening than repeatedly starting those new threads, IMO.
RE: RE: I am loyal  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:22 am : link
In comment 14245752 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14245461 dep026 said:


Quote:


What can I say. I think I speak for a lot of posters who wish you and your kind either grow up or leave. I’ll settle for either.


Loyal enough to get banned and spend the better part of a year supposedly claiming to not want to come back. That's how you know it's true loyalty, right?

I agree though. I also wish some posters would either grow up or leave. I'll settle for either too.


You respond to me a lot but never talk about the post. Kind of creepy dude. I mean you did that on BBH and ratted on me (as per Rich by the way, so you can claim I'm making something up again...)

Its all good. I see you are on your cmputer refreshing the page to see what I post. I am glad I serve a purpose for you.
RE: RE: RE: it is totally weird Britt  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 10:24 am : link
In comment 14245756 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14245701 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14245695 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.



Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.


When they're replying within a minute of the OP, is there even a difference anymore? Sitting on the main page and hitting refresh so they can immediately jump into a new thread isn't any less frightening than repeatedly starting those new threads, IMO.


Is that what happened on this thread?
RE: RE: RE: RE: it is totally weird Britt  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:30 am : link
In comment 14245774 Britt in VA said:
Quote:


Of course not britt. He just is responding to me when I didnt first post until there were 50 replies. Just more nonsense from him.
RE: How can the mods  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14245715 dep026 said:
Quote:
not see Les is just here to troll from this point on?
troll? I think you need to look in the mirror before calling anyone a troll . If you followed my posting history for 22 years on this site you would know I’m not a troll and post on a lot of different topics. Did you actually complain about my posts on this thread to the moderators? That’s both funny and sad.
I didnt report you to the mods  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:33 am : link
I just asked how the hell they cant see you for what you really are. I think you are a phony. I think you are a one schtick phony for that matter.
RE: RE: RE: I am loyal  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/3/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14245770 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14245752 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14245461 dep026 said:


Quote:


What can I say. I think I speak for a lot of posters who wish you and your kind either grow up or leave. I’ll settle for either.


Loyal enough to get banned and spend the better part of a year supposedly claiming to not want to come back. That's how you know it's true loyalty, right?

I agree though. I also wish some posters would either grow up or leave. I'll settle for either too.



You respond to me a lot but never talk about the post. Kind of creepy dude. I mean you did that on BBH and ratted on me (as per Rich by the way, so you can claim I'm making something up again...)

Its all good. I see you are on your cmputer refreshing the page to see what I post. I am glad I serve a purpose for you.

I just wanted to make sure you serve some purpose for somebody.

That said, my last post on BBH was over a decade ago and I'm not sure what I would have "ratted" on you for - were you up to some sort of nefarious acts? Do you have any idea how batshit insane it is that you continue to bring up stuff from BBH and BBWC from 15 years ago? It's really creepy.

Not that you care for any advice from me, so ignore it if you'd prefer, but get out of the house. Go make some friends. Do literally anything other than worrying about a completely different message board in a completely different decade.
RE: I didnt report you to the mods  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 10:42 am : link
In comment 14245791 dep026 said:
Quote:
I just asked how the hell they cant see you for what you really are. I think you are a phony. I think you are a one schtick phony for that matter.
the moderators will remove content and posters in response to a complaint that violates the terms of use. They don’t proactively delete content. Which makes me wonder why you expect the moderators to have banned me unless you complained about something in this thread.

I really could not care less what you think about me. you are wrong and have selective vision because I post on different topics. I happen to think you are a toxic angry and confrontational person and this site was much better when you were banned.
RE: RE: RE: RE: it is totally weird Britt  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/3/2019 10:42 am : link
In comment 14245774 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14245756 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14245701 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14245695 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.



Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.


When they're replying within a minute of the OP, is there even a difference anymore? Sitting on the main page and hitting refresh so they can immediately jump into a new thread isn't any less frightening than repeatedly starting those new threads, IMO.



Is that what happened on this thread?

Nope. Should I link the threads where it has?
Buddy  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:44 am : link
the last thing I worry about is you. I mean I dont even reply to a lot of your inane posts, but you sure seem to find mine and respond to me. So who has the problem? I certainly dont. I dont go looking for posters and try to rip them apart when I dont know them. You have done it to me on various site hence why I reference them because it shows a pattern. You've done it for years. Its really creepy dude.

But again, you dont need to worry about me. I have a great job. I coach. I have two wonderful daughters who mean the world to me and make the Giants seasons of recent years seem meaningless.

You, OTOH, I hope you find what you need to fill the void in your life. If its stalking me around liek you have always done.... then so be it. Take care.
Knock yourself out...  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 10:45 am : link
Still doesn't change the fact that people starting a million threads a day slamming Manning and placing the blame solely on him.

Of course people will respond when they read something that they blatantly disagree with, or that is not rooted in reality.
RE: Again  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14245736 dep026 said:
Quote:
no one is saying the offense didnt have a part of the poor start. of course they did.

Whats eye scratching is people are still blaming the offense for the last two games. Thats where the problem lies with assessing blame.

Can we blame the offense for a no show against Jax, Dallas first time, Washington, and Atlanta. Absolutely. No one is innocent in those games.

But the narratives that Eli cant lead us from behind (false.)
The narrative that the offense failed us in the last two games (false)
The narrative that the defense was worn down early (false)

We have to separate fantasy from reality at some point.


some of your narratives are insane.. good offenses in 2018 get the field goal against dallas.. that was a gimme.. also above you mention how the defense screwed up the games against Saints and Falcons.. did you ever bother watching them before they played the giants? Teams had scored 43, 37, 41, and 29 against them before they faced the giants.. giants scored 6 meaningful points in that game.. then with less than 5 minutes to go Giants great offense score 14 points once the game had already been decided.. 8 of those came with less than 10 seconds to go (ATL basically didn't care about anything at that point).. Both NO and ATL offenses were kept well below their normal scores going into the 4th quarter.. in the meantime our offense was well below scoring level against their defenses.. Don't blame the defenses for that game.. our offense sucked far more in those games than did our defense..
RE: RE: I didnt report you to the mods  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:46 am : link
In comment 14245807 Les in TO said:
Quote:

I really could not care less what you think about me. you are wrong and have selective vision because I post on different topics. I happen to think you are a toxic angry and confrontational person and this site was much better when you were banned.


Thats great. I think the site would be much better without. See how this works?

I am confrontational to people who call a fan boy, elitist, or anything that mocks people supporting Eli. Are you going to deny you call posters that?
Jesus..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 10:47 am : link
Christ:

Quote:
I really could not care less what you think about me. you are wrong and have selective vision because I post on different topics. I happen to think you are a toxic angry and confrontational person and this site was much better when you were banned.


As opposed to a poster that calls people the Cult of Eli and Eli fanboys constantly?

Everyone knows the fucking reason you have posted continually that the defense carried the team in 2007 and 2011, and it has nothing to do with making the site better.

what a disingenuous fuck.
RE: RE: Again  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:49 am : link
In comment 14245816 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:

some of your narratives are insane.. good offenses in 2018 get the field goal against dallas.. that was a gimme.. also above you mention how the defense screwed up the games against Saints and Falcons.. did you ever bother watching them before they played the giants? Teams had scored 43, 37, 41, and 29 against them before they faced the giants.. giants scored 6 meaningful points in that game.. then with less than 5 minutes to go Giants great offense score 14 points once the game had already been decided.. 8 of those came with less than 10 seconds to go (ATL basically didn't care about anything at that point).. Both NO and ATL offenses were kept well below their normal scores going into the 4th quarter.. in the meantime our offense was well below scoring level against their defenses.. Don't blame the defenses for that game.. our offense sucked far more in those games than did our defense..


Good offenses take care of gimmes? There are no guarantees in football. They offense stalled. It happens. The Giants scored 17 points in the 4th quarter and since 4 plays didnt go there way - they failed? Thats really weird logic, dont you think?

And I mentioned the offensive failures in Atlanta. Did I not? So how is that inane narratives?
RE: Knock yourself out...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/3/2019 10:50 am : link
In comment 14245814 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Still doesn't change the fact that people starting a million threads a day slamming Manning and placing the blame solely on him.

Of course people will respond when they read something that they blatantly disagree with, or that is not rooted in reality.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C
RE: RE: Knock yourself out...  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:51 am : link
In comment 14245824 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14245814 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Still doesn't change the fact that people starting a million threads a day slamming Manning and placing the blame solely on him.

Of course people will respond when they read something that they blatantly disagree with, or that is not rooted in reality.


Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C


lol. You're obsession with me is an all time hight
RE: RE: RE: Again  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 10:57 am : link
In comment 14245823 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14245816 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:



some of your narratives are insane.. good offenses in 2018 get the field goal against dallas.. that was a gimme.. also above you mention how the defense screwed up the games against Saints and Falcons.. did you ever bother watching them before they played the giants? Teams had scored 43, 37, 41, and 29 against them before they faced the giants.. giants scored 6 meaningful points in that game.. then with less than 5 minutes to go Giants great offense score 14 points once the game had already been decided.. 8 of those came with less than 10 seconds to go (ATL basically didn't care about anything at that point).. Both NO and ATL offenses were kept well below their normal scores going into the 4th quarter.. in the meantime our offense was well below scoring level against their defenses.. Don't blame the defenses for that game.. our offense sucked far more in those games than did our defense..



Good offenses take care of gimmes? There are no guarantees in football. They offense stalled. It happens. The Giants scored 17 points in the 4th quarter and since 4 plays didnt go there way - they failed? Thats really weird logic, dont you think?

And I mentioned the offensive failures in Atlanta. Did I not? So how is that inane narratives?


No but you keep trying to pass the blame only to the defense.. our offense sucked at the beginning of the year.. our defense was respectable.. by the end of the year the roles were reversed.. but at neither stage did any of them look good.. plus defense has the excuse of starters being traded.. JPP, Snacks, Apple and then Landon Collins being hurt..
GD convienantely leaves us  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:58 am : link
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577782

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577778

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577764

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577779

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577789

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577781

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577359&thread_page=1


Threads from the first page alone about Eli where I neither posted or posted well into the thread. Selective reading. Usually the case when someone stalks you.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Again  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 11:01 am : link
In comment 14245840 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:

No but you keep trying to pass the blame only to the defense.. our offense sucked at the beginning of the year.. our defense was respectable.. by the end of the year the roles were reversed.. but at neither stage did any of them look good.. plus defense has the excuse of starters being traded.. JPP, Snacks, Apple and then Landon Collins being hurt..


How am I only blaming the defense when I said the offense sputtered against 4 of the first 7 teams we played? And if you are going to make excuses for the defnes,e you can do it for the offense too.

The fact is we were by far the worst 4th quarter defense in the NFL this year. This from the start to the end. The fact is we blew 6 leads in the last 2 minutes. The fact is we didnt force a punt in 5 of 6 games in the the 1-7 start. These facts cannot be denied. And the failure of the defenses included Snacks and Apple. And JPP was never on this team so he is irrelevant. And Collins was healthy for the majority of the year.

The defense failed us in the 4th quarter from game 2 all the way to game 16. The offensive production is a separate issue.
RE: Jesus..  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14245820 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Christ:



Quote:


I really could not care less what you think about me. you are wrong and have selective vision because I post on different topics. I happen to think you are a toxic angry and confrontational person and this site was much better when you were banned.



As opposed to a poster that calls people the Cult of Eli and Eli fanboys constantly?

Everyone knows the fucking reason you have posted continually that the defense carried the team in 2007 and 2011, and it has nothing to do with making the site better.

what a disingenuous fuck.
speaking of angry toxic and confrontational ....
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 11:09 am : link
In comment 14245847 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14245840 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:



No but you keep trying to pass the blame only to the defense.. our offense sucked at the beginning of the year.. our defense was respectable.. by the end of the year the roles were reversed.. but at neither stage did any of them look good.. plus defense has the excuse of starters being traded.. JPP, Snacks, Apple and then Landon Collins being hurt..



How am I only blaming the defense when I said the offense sputtered against 4 of the first 7 teams we played? And if you are going to make excuses for the defnes,e you can do it for the offense too.

The fact is we were by far the worst 4th quarter defense in the NFL this year. This from the start to the end. The fact is we blew 6 leads in the last 2 minutes. The fact is we didnt force a punt in 5 of 6 games in the the 1-7 start. These facts cannot be denied. And the failure of the defenses included Snacks and Apple. And JPP was never on this team so he is irrelevant. And Collins was healthy for the majority of the year.

The defense failed us in the 4th quarter from game 2 all the way to game 16. The offensive production is a separate issue.


Which 3 games did the offense not sputter in the first 7 games?
.  
arcarsenal : 1/3/2019 11:10 am : link
I still don't understand what we're doing here. If the idea is somehow that the defense wasn't bad for most of the season, I don't know what anyone would have been watching to arrive at that (incorrect) conclusion.

If the idea is that the defense isn't the only side of the ball that needs help, well.... no shit.

It looks like we've devolved entirely into personal attacks and arguing over nonsense, though - so the football portion of this thread (whatever it was), appears to be in the rear view anyway.
RE: .  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14245866 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I still don't understand what we're doing here. If the idea is somehow that the defense wasn't bad for most of the season, I don't know what anyone would have been watching to arrive at that (incorrect) conclusion.

If the idea is that the defense isn't the only side of the ball that needs help, well.... no shit.

It looks like we've devolved entirely into personal attacks and arguing over nonsense, though - so the football portion of this thread (whatever it was), appears to be in the rear view anyway.


Perfectly sums up the state of this website currently.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14245864 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 14245847 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14245840 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:



No but you keep trying to pass the blame only to the defense.. our offense sucked at the beginning of the year.. our defense was respectable.. by the end of the year the roles were reversed.. but at neither stage did any of them look good.. plus defense has the excuse of starters being traded.. JPP, Snacks, Apple and then Landon Collins being hurt..



How am I only blaming the defense when I said the offense sputtered against 4 of the first 7 teams we played? And if you are going to make excuses for the defnes,e you can do it for the offense too.

The fact is we were by far the worst 4th quarter defense in the NFL this year. This from the start to the end. The fact is we blew 6 leads in the last 2 minutes. The fact is we didnt force a punt in 5 of 6 games in the the 1-7 start. These facts cannot be denied. And the failure of the defenses included Snacks and Apple. And JPP was never on this team so he is irrelevant. And Collins was healthy for the majority of the year.

The defense failed us in the 4th quarter from game 2 all the way to game 16. The offensive production is a separate issue.



Which 3 games did the offense not sputter in the first 7 games?


Houston, Carolina, Saints. The Saints game looks bad on paper. But the lost fumble by Gallman and Penalties were a killer. We did move the ball on them and had it at one score game with 5 minutes to go.
RE: .  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 11:14 am : link
In comment 14245866 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I still don't understand what we're doing here. If the idea is somehow that the defense wasn't bad for most of the season, I don't know what anyone would have been watching to arrive at that (incorrect) conclusion.

If the idea is that the defense isn't the only side of the ball that needs help, well.... no shit.

It looks like we've devolved entirely into personal attacks and arguing over nonsense, though - so the football portion of this thread (whatever it was), appears to be in the rear view anyway.


Good post Arc. Ill take responsibility of responding to the posters who had no interest in talking about the post. Ive got to be better.
I have mixed feelings  
Matt M. : 1/3/2019 11:44 am : link
First, this season was terrible due to a lot of reasons. Second, while the defense allowed less than 25 points in all those early losses referenced in the original post, they also allowed the late score to seal the loss in most. I don't care if they only allowed 7 points, if that TD was given up in the 4th Q and resulted in a loss.

This doesn't absolve the offense. Their output was not enough in the first 8 games. But, look back at the games where they hang around, Barkley scores a TD late in the 4th, only to have the lead given right back and resulting in a loss. Win one or two of those games early, you don't what kind of residual effects it has on the season.

All this said, I think the offense was pathetic. That lies with a terrible OL, bad coaching, bad gameplanning, and bad playcalling, in my opinion. Also, while we saw better output in the second half and a lot has been attributed to adding Jamon Brown, our running game actually took a hit once OBJ went out. Brown certainly helped us, but the OL went from downright terrible and likely the worst in the league to simply fall in the bottom 1/3. We still need serious upgrades simply to be an average to slightly above average OL. That should give the overall offense a tremendous boost next year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14245869 dep026 said:
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In comment 14245864 chuckydee9 said:


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In comment 14245847 dep026 said:


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In comment 14245840 chuckydee9 said:


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No but you keep trying to pass the blame only to the defense.. our offense sucked at the beginning of the year.. our defense was respectable.. by the end of the year the roles were reversed.. but at neither stage did any of them look good.. plus defense has the excuse of starters being traded.. JPP, Snacks, Apple and then Landon Collins being hurt..



How am I only blaming the defense when I said the offense sputtered against 4 of the first 7 teams we played? And if you are going to make excuses for the defnes,e you can do it for the offense too.

The fact is we were by far the worst 4th quarter defense in the NFL this year. This from the start to the end. The fact is we blew 6 leads in the last 2 minutes. The fact is we didnt force a punt in 5 of 6 games in the the 1-7 start. These facts cannot be denied. And the failure of the defenses included Snacks and Apple. And JPP was never on this team so he is irrelevant. And Collins was healthy for the majority of the year.

The defense failed us in the 4th quarter from game 2 all the way to game 16. The offensive production is a separate issue.



Which 3 games did the offense not sputter in the first 7 games?



Houston, Carolina, Saints. The Saints game looks bad on paper. But the lost fumble by Gallman and Penalties were a killer. We did move the ball on them and had it at one score game with 5 minutes to go.


See thats what I mean.. what you described there is sputtering.. Carolina game, the giants offense sputtered.. Dallas and Atlanta.. they didn't sputter.. they actually sucked, were bad, horrible..
The offense sputtered against  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 12:17 pm : link
Carolina....

Um, ok.
RE: The offense sputtered against  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14245973 dep026 said:
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Carolina....

Um, ok.

Turnovers.. its still much closer to sputtering then calling the Jags game as just sputtering and not a bad offensive game..
The Carolina..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 12:25 pm : link
game was a travesty on many levels, but the offense sputtering wasn't really one of them.

They had not one, not two, but three third down stops on D overturned by penalties, one of which was an INT where Collins was deemed to have hit a defenseless WR.

Then, they scored two TD's in the last few minutes to take the lead, only to have Carolina be given a phantom 1st down to set up the winning FG.

I challenge anyone to find a play in the history of the NFL where an intercepting player is called for a personal foul for an illegal hit.
RE: The Carolina..  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14245988 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
game was a travesty on many levels, but the offense sputtering wasn't really one of them.

They had not one, not two, but three third down stops on D overturned by penalties, one of which was an INT where Collins was deemed to have hit a defenseless WR.

Then, they scored two TD's in the last few minutes to take the lead, only to have Carolina be given a phantom 1st down to set up the winning FG.

I challenge anyone to find a play in the history of the NFL where an intercepting player is called for a personal foul for an illegal hit.


Yes.. and on many levels.. ok so the giants O didn't sputter in 2 games out of the first 7.. but then you can't call the jags, dallas and ATL game as just sputtering..
it amazes me  
YAJ2112 : 1/3/2019 12:31 pm : link
that some of you can endlessly debate this.

Fact - Both the offense and defense were responsible for our poor record in 2018. Does it really fucking matter if it was a 68-32 split or a 27-73 split? Both units need improvement.
The Defense wouldnt have been so bad  
MetsAreBack : 1/3/2019 12:33 pm : link
If at 1-7, management hadn't decided to trade defensive assets for picks.

And it was the right call - not sure what people are complaining about.. would we have preferred to finish 7-9 or 8-8 ...to 5-11?

I wouldn't. I'll take the 6th overall pick. Thanks.
RE: RE: The offense sputtered against  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14245980 chuckydee9 said:
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In comment 14245973 dep026 said:


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Carolina....

Um, ok.


Turnovers.. its still much closer to sputtering then calling the Jags game as just sputtering and not a bad offensive game..


We scored 31 points. They didnt sputter. Come on.
RE: The Defense wouldnt have been so bad  
NoPeanutz : 1/3/2019 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14246000 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
If at 1-7, management hadn't decided to trade defensive assets for picks.

And it was the right call - not sure what people are complaining about.. would we have preferred to finish 7-9 or 8-8 ...to 5-11?

I wouldn't. I'll take the 6th overall pick. Thanks.

Snacks was a good player. But what did Eli Apple do here to stand out?
RE: RE: The Defense wouldnt have been so bad  
MetsAreBack : 1/3/2019 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14246036 NoPeanutz said:
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In comment 14246000 MetsAreBack said:


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If at 1-7, management hadn't decided to trade defensive assets for picks.

And it was the right call - not sure what people are complaining about.. would we have preferred to finish 7-9 or 8-8 ...to 5-11?

I wouldn't. I'll take the 6th overall pick. Thanks.


Snacks was a good player. But what did Eli Apple do here to stand out?


He was better than next man up. That's the point. He does start for the number 1 seed Saints after all.
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