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This narrative that itís the defense fault is wrong

twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 7:09 pm
Recently we are seeing this rush to say the defense is the reason the Giants are bad.

This is incorrect.

The Giants may have been eliminated by the Titans but the season ended at 1-7.

Shurmur and Eli have been talking about ďcloseĒ and ďcompetitiveĒ games that we lost by single digits.

Now the defense may have blown the games to both the Colts and the cOwboys, but the truth is the Giants would be 7-9 and out of the playoffs with those wins anyway.

The fact of the matter is

The Giants started 0-2 and the defense allowed 20 pts in both games. The offense managed just 15 pts and 13 pts.

In fact the Giants scored 20 pts or less in 6 of the first 8 games, Hiw many games could possibly be won with those numbers? The season was over at that point.

Furthermore, the Giants suffered 5 single digit losses in this stretch and in 4 of them the opposition scored 20, 20, 23, 20. So was it the defense that caused those losses? Or was it the defense keeping them ďcloseĒ and ďcompetitiveĒ?

The Giants were eliminated to the extent that they dumped off Eli Apple and Snacks and thus hurting the defense because the season was already over.

On top of it- in the 5 Giants win. The defense got 2 turnovers vs Texans, got 2 turnovers in San Fran, 4 turnovers including a defensive TD vs Tampa, 3 turnovers and a defensive TD vs the Bears, and 3 turnovers and a defensive TD vs the Redskins.

You are looking at multiple turnovers in 4 of the wins and and 3/4 turnovers and defensive TDs in 3 of the wins.

Eli Manning threw under 200 yards in 3 of the wins.

If the Titans game was a ďsingle score game for a long timeĒas Shurmur said it was because of the defense and not our offense which got shutout.

The Giants this year were bad. The offense was bad and the defense became bad as the season wore in and long after it was over and pieces were removed from the team.

Iím sorry but this was not the story of a great offense being subjected to blown game after blown game by the defense. That may have happened in the last 2 meaningless games but itís not the story of the season.
The Giants averaged 18.75 PPG for the first 8 games  
Go Terps : 1/2/2019 7:12 pm : link
.
Shhh  
richinpa : 1/2/2019 7:17 pm : link
SShhh.!

Dont say that too loud or you may blow DG's rant and new rallying cry

Your dead on. The offense sucked and played well against some sucky D's and really didn't move the ball at in the first 8 games.

While I will give some kudos that they improved with JBrown coming in, they aren't a juggernaut like the narrative is going. That's called changing the focus!

You can't blame the O and the D could you?

But..i do think its fair to say that the offense can be fixed or healed quicker than the D. Add a RT in FA or via the draft and get Paradais if possible or if we want that type of player OR they think Halapio (sounds like DG loves this guy) can come back and start. Then the offense is in good shape.

The D is another story. Assuming we keep Collins via one of the tag vehicles, we need a top pass rusher, a LB that can play and a Free Safety. this is a big assumption that Beal can come in and play CB with the expensive Jackrabbit


So both really have sucked it up. Its just the spinsters doing their job.

By the time the season starts we will have forgotten how bad the offense was....
You can..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 7:18 pm : link
hush the talk all you want, but the fact of the matter is that the defense gave up second half leads in 7 games.

Is there some sort of utility in trying to say the defense isn't at fault or that the offense is more at fault?
this ugly baby  
bc4life : 1/2/2019 7:19 pm : link
has daddy's on both sides of the ball
Don't worry, DG promised to fix the defense  
bceagle05 : 1/2/2019 7:19 pm : link
the same way he fixed the OL this year. No seriously, he actually referenced his OL work today as something that should reassure us about his next mission.
defensive issues  
bc4life : 1/2/2019 7:19 pm : link
pass rush and no free safety to QB the defensive backfield
bceagle  
bc4life : 1/2/2019 7:20 pm : link
they've played better but still a work in progress.
look  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/2/2019 7:20 pm : link
no matter what you think up there -- the facts are that the defense couldn't make stops in the fourth quarter when it needed to be done - this was when Snacks and Apple both were and weren't there

its also true that the offense rounded a corner in the second half and made real improvements

i can't see how the defense doesn't take responsibility for that

and the team line is that both the defense needs to make a stop at the end of the game and the offense needs to score

please tell me how the defense doesn't need major improvement talent wise
Exhibit A  
bc4life : 1/2/2019 7:24 pm : link
Blake Jarwin - 119 yards and 3 TDs

Exhibit B - Derrick Henry 100+ yards in first half.
When the defense  
Pete in MD : 1/2/2019 7:24 pm : link
was playing ok, the offense was bad. When the offense was playing ok, the defense was bad.
Hmm..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 7:25 pm : link
so strides haven't been made on the OL? Are you fucking serious?

Quote:
Don't worry, DG promised to fix the defense
bceagle05 : 7:19 pm : link : reply
the same way he fixed the OL this year. No seriously, he actually referenced his OL work today as something that should reassure us about his next mission.


Oh no, the GM promised to address the Defense! Let's tar and feather him because - - well, because we are fucking morons?
FMiC  
bc4life : 1/2/2019 7:27 pm : link
You talking IQ or sexual orientation?
RE: Don't worry, DG promised to fix the defense  
Default : 1/2/2019 7:28 pm : link
In comment 14245000 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
the same way he fixed the OL this year. No seriously, he actually referenced his OL work today as something that should reassure us about his next mission.


Kinda like how he traded the team's best player on defense and a top 10 pick that was still developing.
The O-line and offense were going to be a work in progress  
Torrag : 1/2/2019 7:28 pm : link
They improved as the season developed and ended strong in Decemeber even without Odell.

The defense rarely got a big stop at a critical point and they had chances nearly every week. That said if you expected a 3-4 defense to thrive with the LB's we sent to the field this year you should have your head examined.

Besides it's not about blame. Gettelman wasn't assigning blame. He was addressing the offseason talent hunt and where it needs to be focused. He's right. The majority of our Draft and Free Agent resources this offseason need to be allotted to the defensive side of the ball.

RE: The Giants averaged 18.75 PPG for the first 8 games  
BigBlueShock : 1/2/2019 7:32 pm : link
In comment 14244989 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.

What about the second 8 games?
No one expected the D to be exemplary....  
bw in dc : 1/2/2019 7:32 pm : link
The conventional wisdom seemed to be that we had enough weapons and additions to outscore teams. Thatís were the available cap dollars were largely spent. And hopefully Eli could deliver the goods.

Well, that didnít really happen outside a few games. Eli was Eli - bad game, mediocre game, mediocre game, really good game, mediocre game, bad game.

If your QB is that inconsistent it impacts both sides of the ball. Sure, the oline was a struggle but Eli didnít help offset that with any improvisation. He needed a pocket that gave him greater time. And that isnít easy with the parts we had.

Indeed, the D needs to be upgraded. But we didnít have a 5 win season because they couldnít carry their weight. The season was putrid because Eli was Eli and the D couldnít pick him and the O up....

Lets add another dynamic  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 7:32 pm : link
A massive amount of money is consumed by the offense

Eli, Odell, Solder are all making huge money. Barkley is already paid top 5 at RB.

Lets also look at the draft pick allotment. Most of the resources in the top rounds have been spent on the offense,

Our HC was brought in here as an offensive guru and calls the plays. His focus is there

The offense is where the Giants have made the investment and they should bear the weight.
Refreshing to read a well argued OP.  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/2/2019 7:38 pm : link
Indeed the season was over at 1-7 for all intents.
Late game defensive collapses  
jeff57 : 1/2/2019 7:41 pm : link
Were not the defenseís fault. Must be the devilís.
Not so sure about the $$$ though  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/2/2019 7:41 pm : link
Snacks, OV, Jenkins, and Ogletree consume some Kwan, too.
Eli should have tackled better  
montanagiant : 1/2/2019 7:44 pm : link
and not get fooled by the RPO so much while containing the edge
The team sucks  
rocco8112 : 1/2/2019 7:49 pm : link
The defense sucked early and got worse as the season went on. At least the offense improved.
RE: Eli should have tackled better  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 1/2/2019 7:50 pm : link
In comment 14245040 montanagiant said:
Quote:
and not get fooled by the RPO so much while containing the edge


I remember that early, thinking if I want to see players give up contain, Iíll go watch HS games.
Defense Gave up Late 4thQ Leads  
clatterbuck : 1/2/2019 7:51 pm : link
in four games -- Panthers, Eagles, Colts, Cowboys, all losses, gave up a 10-point lead with 1:49 to go against the Bears, allowed the Bucs to turn a rout into a nail-biter, and just couldn't seem to make a play or a crucial stop all year, exemplified by the 4th-and-15 Prescott TD pass. The offense played better after the bye even without OBJ for the last four games. Giants still need O-line help but have playmakers on offense. They need disruptive playmakers on defense and the right players for Bettcher's system.
RE: When the defense  
GiantGrit : 1/2/2019 7:54 pm : link
In comment 14245012 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
was playing ok, the offense was bad. When the offense was playing ok, the defense was bad.


I've read a ton of comments on our play, i've even typed a lot myself...this is the simplest, most accurate statement on our play
Iím sorry  
BigBlueShock : 1/2/2019 7:55 pm : link
Iím going to be blunt here. Anyone that sits here right now, today, and thinks the defense is not the biggest problem on this team is a fucking idiot. Yes the offense struggled the first 8 games. With a new HC, New coordinators, new systems, new players (at a ridiculous rate)etc, this was always going to be a work in progress. But you know what? The offense got better and better as the season went along. Sure they were inconsistent and had a dud or two as well, but the offense in the second half of the season was for the most part pretty damn good. Youíd think that fans would be smart enough to realize that progress this season was what we were looking for as it went along. Apparently not. Apparently the first 8 games are more important and a better indicator of where this team is moving forward...

The offense certainly has as much culpability in missing the playoffs as the defense because of their wretched start. At least they got going in the right direction. The defense? Yeah...

The thing I am afraid of  
DavidinBMNY : 1/2/2019 7:56 pm : link
Is that Betcher is how reliant butcher system is to players who match what he is looking for.

At the same time Betcher lost Jpp, and had 2 3rd and a 5th rd pick who was unavailable most of the year due to a health issue.

This is a pivotal year for this defense. The scouts know what Betcher wants, the Giants have improved the OL and they hopefully have some resources to apply to upgrading the talent.
RE: RE: The Giants averaged 18.75 PPG for the first 8 games  
Go Terps : 1/2/2019 7:58 pm : link
In comment 14245023 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14244989 Go Terps said:


Quote:


.


What about the second 8 games?


What about them? The season was over by that point. After that, the only decent team we beat was Chicago, whose backup QB spotted us 7 on the first possession. And do you remember losing the last three games?

- Shutout at home against Tennessee. Our offense that everyone seems to be happy about managed 260 yards in the rain.
- Lose by a point in Indy. Manage 83 yards rushing on 29 carries. Can't run down the clock in the fourth quarter with a lead. Once the lead is gone, turn the ball over with a chance to win.
- Lose by a point at home to Dallas. Can't close it out despite being set up on the 48. 4 incompletions. Hey, let's not get the ball into Barkley's hands despite needing only about 25 yards and having 2 timeouts.

I don't know why the second half performance of the offense should be viewed as a positive. I know why some fans (and Shurmur and Gettleman) do...because there's nothing else positive to point to.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/2/2019 8:00 pm : link
What is the fucking obsession with this place needing everything to be black and white?

The offense still needs to be better - but you damn well better believe this defense does, too. They were not good this year and they absolutely were at fault for some of the losses.

We lost several games this season where we had a lead and a defensive stop would have, for all intents and purposes, ended the football game. The defense was not able to get those stops.

The defense gave up a losing score late in the 4th quarter when all of these games had us ahead or tied...

CAR
PHI (2nd game)
IND
DAL

The defense almost blew the Bucs and Bears games too because they couldn't even stop Chase Daniel.

The defense was fucking bad this year. I don't want to hear otherwise. This team will go nowhere with a defense like this. We need be better at rushing the passer, we need to be better stopping the run, and we need to be better across the board.
There are some valid points in the OP  
Mike from Ohio : 1/2/2019 8:02 pm : link
but the larger question is why do we need to pick who is to blame? The offense and defense are not independent variables where one is more to blame than the other. When an offense canít sustain drives, the defense tires more easily and play worse. When the defense canít get off the field, the offense canít develop a rhythm and have to chase points instead of playing balanced.

In too many games to count this year, the game could have been won with either a defensive stop or an offensive score. Good teams get those, and bad teams donít. Guess which one the Giants were this season?

Trying to assign blame is pointless.
The defense can use help ....  
short lease : 1/2/2019 8:02 pm : link
who is are star players? After the OL the defense is #2 for an infusion of talent.
RE: The defense can use help ....  
short lease : 1/2/2019 8:03 pm : link
In comment 14245063 short lease said:
Quote:
who is are star players? After the OL the defense is #2 for an infusion of talent.


great English ...
You're right....  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 8:08 pm : link
Let's leave the defense alone.

As a matter of fact, I think we should franchise tag Curtis Riley.
No one is saying leave the defense alone  
Go Terps : 1/2/2019 8:10 pm : link
The defense blows. It's awful.

It doesn't mean the offense isn't also awful.
This is getting nuts.  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 8:11 pm : link
.
And I'll add  
Go Terps : 1/2/2019 8:13 pm : link
The defense was another failure of Shurmur's. He's the head coach...not the offensive coordinator. The whole team falls under his purview.

The defense is terrible. The offense is terrible. The coaches aren't good enough to compensate for talent shortfalls. The GM did a bad job addressing talent shortfalls. That's where we are.
RE: This is getting nuts.  
Go Terps : 1/2/2019 8:14 pm : link
In comment 14245076 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.


We're years past nuts with this team.
RE: You're right....  
jeff57 : 1/2/2019 8:15 pm : link
In comment 14245072 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Let's leave the defense alone.

As a matter of fact, I think we should franchise tag Curtis Riley.


Wonít work. Canít sign. Riley de milo never uses his arms.
Imagine being Shurmur and Gettleman and walking into this mess...  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 8:16 pm : link
and having to sort it all out. It takes time.
The defense was plenty bad  
jcn56 : 1/2/2019 8:18 pm : link
the problem is the talent disparity between the two units. The offense has had more investment, even with the spending spree in 2016. Then, you ship away JPP, Snacks and Apple, with Vernon out for almost half the season (and Collins injured towards the end), and you end up with one seriously undermanned unit.

As mentioned above, there's no one 'fault' - things are broken all over.
RE: RE: This is getting nuts.  
Reb8thVA : 1/2/2019 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14245083 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14245076 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


.



We're years past nuts with this team.


eeyore!
RE: The Giants averaged 18.75 PPG for the first 8 games  
speedywheels : 1/2/2019 8:22 pm : link
In comment 14244989 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


During those 8 games, they lost despite scoring 31 vs CAR. They also scored 62 points in their last two games and still lost. Offense also watched the defense choke away a 14 point lead with 5 minutes to CHI and had to kick a FG in OT to bail them out.

This thread is stupid, there is plenty of blame to go around. On BOTH sides of the ball.

RE: And I'll add  
speedywheels : 1/2/2019 8:25 pm : link
In comment 14245078 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The defense was another failure of Shurmur's. He's the head coach...not the offensive coordinator. The whole team falls under his purview.


So Bettcher doesn't deserve any blame? You skip right ahead to Shurmur?
RE: Imagine being Shurmur and Gettleman and walking into this mess...  
arcarsenal : 1/2/2019 8:25 pm : link
In comment 14245086 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
and having to sort it all out. It takes time.


No, Britt - Pat Shurmur, an offensive HC, was supposed to fix a talentless/rudderless defense in one year. A defense that was awful one year ago and actually lost more talent than it acquired. Also Pat Shurmur's fault somehow - he's obviously the GM too.

The methodology regarding the way blame gets bizarrely assigned around here is just.... I can't figure it out.

It's the same thing we saw between 2015 and 2016. One historically horrendous defensive unit and one that was top 5 and the strength of the football team... same DC.

Does Ben McAdoo get credit for doing something with the defense that Tom Coughlin wasn't able to or did Jerry Reese go on a shopping spree to add an influx of defensive talent?
We Need Players  
Rong5611 : 1/2/2019 8:26 pm : link
I think you take the draft one pick at a time, pick the best player available when its your turn. This draft is supposed to be a good one for defense, logic dictates we will get some help there - LB, S, DL, CB - get the best ones.


We cannot ignore the OL either, if Barkley gets no help, we're done. We cannot start Wheeler next year, we need a RT via the draft or FA. We need a C too. Halapio's ability is unknown. Greco and Pulley are back-ups at best. Brown was solid at RG, will they keep him?
This defense  
joeinpa : 1/2/2019 8:28 pm : link
Stinks
RE: RE: Imagine being Shurmur and Gettleman and walking into this mess...  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 8:29 pm : link
In comment 14245117 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14245086 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


and having to sort it all out. It takes time.



No, Britt - Pat Shurmur, an offensive HC, was supposed to fix a talentless/rudderless defense in one year. A defense that was awful one year ago and actually lost more talent than it acquired. Also Pat Shurmur's fault somehow - he's obviously the GM too.

The methodology regarding the way blame gets bizarrely assigned around here is just.... I can't figure it out.

It's the same thing we saw between 2015 and 2016. One historically horrendous defensive unit and one that was top 5 and the strength of the football team... same DC.

Does Ben McAdoo get credit for doing something with the defense that Tom Coughlin wasn't able to or did Jerry Reese go on a shopping spree to add an influx of defensive talent?


10 years of bad drafting. 10 years! And we've only got like 5 players left! Including our last two first round, top ten picks (!) already gone, from the previous regime.

Yet that was supposed to be fixed in a single offseason.
The oddest thing..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 8:29 pm : link
is when you point out that Gettleman and Shurmur have only been here one year, the same posters use the argument that we've been bad for 6-7 years.

What the fuck is the correlation to DG and PS and why should that reflect on them? And also, those same posters use the Browns as a team trending upwards while the Giants are a 5 win team in the doldrums.

Logic isn't really a strong suit - and certainly isn't correlated to the posting frequency of those guys.
It's absolute crazy town around here.  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 8:31 pm : link
the inmates have truly taken over the asylum.
Defense didnít force a punt  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 8:32 pm : link
For 5 straight games in the 4th quarter....

Through the first 8 games...  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 8:33 pm : link
The Giants were 31st in sacks
28th in causing turnovers
29th In plays per possession allowed.

Ummmm, thatís bad. But OP wonít mention them.
RE: When the defense  
BillKo : 1/2/2019 8:34 pm : link
In comment 14245012 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
was playing ok, the offense was bad. When the offense was playing ok, the defense was bad.


When a team blows offensively, you'll see opposing teams not push it because they know they can stop the other team. Teams tend to be conservative by nature, mostly.

When a team can put up some points, then the issue is forced and the defense can be exposed.

That's where the Giants ended up this year. Exposed on defense........
RE: RE: RE: Imagine being Shurmur and Gettleman and walking into this mess...  
arcarsenal : 1/2/2019 8:34 pm : link
In comment 14245128 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14245117 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 14245086 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


and having to sort it all out. It takes time.



No, Britt - Pat Shurmur, an offensive HC, was supposed to fix a talentless/rudderless defense in one year. A defense that was awful one year ago and actually lost more talent than it acquired. Also Pat Shurmur's fault somehow - he's obviously the GM too.

The methodology regarding the way blame gets bizarrely assigned around here is just.... I can't figure it out.

It's the same thing we saw between 2015 and 2016. One historically horrendous defensive unit and one that was top 5 and the strength of the football team... same DC.

Does Ben McAdoo get credit for doing something with the defense that Tom Coughlin wasn't able to or did Jerry Reese go on a shopping spree to add an influx of defensive talent?



10 years of bad drafting. 10 years! And we've only got like 5 players left! Including our last two first round, top ten picks (!) already gone, from the previous regime.

Yet that was supposed to be fixed in a single offseason.


The terrible drafting had a huge aggregate effect on this football team. You cannot have as many empty drafts as we did and expect the team to not show it down the road.

Everyone is tired of watching the Giants lose and finish at the bottom of the division.

I have no idea if Gettleman and Shurmur are the right guys for this. What I do know is that the jobs they undertook were going to need more than one year to complete.

Fans who just expected some sort of magic carpet ride back into relevancy here were kidding themselves.
dep..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 8:35 pm : link
what nobody is also pointing out is that this is the third day in a row that the OP has started a thread either calling for Eli to be replaced or to crap on the offense.

Not sure why people aren't recognizing that.
RE: The oddest thing..  
BillKo : 1/2/2019 8:37 pm : link
In comment 14245130 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is when you point out that Gettleman and Shurmur have only been here one year, the same posters use the argument that we've been bad for 6-7 years.

What the fuck is the correlation to DG and PS and why should that reflect on them? And also, those same posters use the Browns as a team trending upwards while the Giants are a 5 win team in the doldrums.

Logic isn't really a strong suit - and certainly isn't correlated to the posting frequency of those guys.


Said it on another thread, both guys don't give a crap about how the Giants have done since 2011.

They need to build the team their way............

Sorry I meant 5 of 6 games  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 8:38 pm : link
The eagles they forced a punt after the score was way out of hand.

Still terrible.
RE: dep..  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 8:39 pm : link
In comment 14245148 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
what nobody is also pointing out is that this is the third day in a row that the OP has started a thread either calling for Eli to be replaced or to crap on the offense.

Not sure why people aren't recognizing that.



What threads did I start?
I was actually getting worried about you Dep  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 8:40 pm : link
I couldnít believe it took you this long to respond
Eh, both units were trash.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/2/2019 8:41 pm : link
And it was always going to take time, but that didn't stop some folks this past offseason from proclaiming the team would 'be back' this year, and it would be a 'revenge tour.' Perhaps, those folks will be more patient and logical the next few years going forward; especially since we are going to be ushering in a new era with a young QB sometime very soon.
DG mentioned  
WillVAB : 1/2/2019 8:41 pm : link
The defense needing playmakers and heís exactly right. How many dropped INTís this year? How many missed sack opportunities? Those are the kind of plays that turn games and the defense doesnít have anyone to close games out.

This franchise used to have 3 elite rushers who could turn a game. Now they donít have 1. DG has his work cut out for him this off-season.
RE: Defense didnít force a punt  
Eman11 : 1/2/2019 8:41 pm : link
In comment 14245137 dep026 said:
Quote:
For 5 straight games in the 4th quarter....


Yikes. I knew they were blowing chunks but to see it in black and white like this just blows my mind.

If this doesn't scream the top priority to fix going forward I don't know what would.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/2/2019 8:45 pm : link
Imagine just having an elite, relentless edge rusher like Khalil Mack late in games. That one player alone may have been worth an additional 2 wins. We lost several games where literally one play made defensively could have been the difference. One sack... one INT... even one incomplete pass (Beasley)

We have to find a way to rush the passer. Huge, huge problem this year. We just could not get to QB's late in games.
RE: This is getting nuts.  
aka dbrny : 1/2/2019 8:46 pm : link
In comment 14245076 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.


I think weíre wayyy past the ďgettingĒ part.
RE: I was actually getting worried about you Dep  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 8:46 pm : link
In comment 14245164 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
I couldnít believe it took you this long to respond


I was worried about you too.

Itís been a few days that you start a mind numbing dumbass thread that makes no sense.
The defense sucked.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/2/2019 8:49 pm : link
I hope Oliver is there @ 6.
Well, Eliís Army...  
bw in dc : 1/2/2019 8:51 pm : link
have their major talking point for the off-season - it was the Dís fault, Eli did his part with Air Schurmur.
...  
Toth029 : 1/2/2019 8:54 pm : link
Vernon and Jenkins aren't making big dollars? Isn't Olgetree also making some decent money? There is more youth defensively but there's accountability that isn't being processed for some reason.

They need better talent, specifically at LB and S.
Good post  
greek13 : 1/2/2019 8:55 pm : link
Trades
Injuries
All after basically eliminated
Get an edge rusher a safety and cb
Will be very strong group
RE: Well, Eliís Army...  
arcarsenal : 1/2/2019 8:55 pm : link
In comment 14245187 bw in dc said:
Quote:
have their major talking point for the off-season - it was the Dís fault, Eli did his part with Air Schurmur.


Oh, give me a break...

Virtually everyone disagreeing with the OP is simply saying the defense was terrible too. The idea that they're blameless is batshit.

I'll never understand why it's so hard for people here to see two things at once. It's like you can't take a position on anything unless you're completely unwilling to even consider the other side of it or anything that doesn't fit the same narrative.

We all know the offense needs more work. It doesn't mean the defense didn't suck or contribute to losses. Anyone who believes that obviously didn't watch much of this football team.

The Raiders were the only team that accumulated fewer sacks than NYG did this year. We could not get to QB's in crunch time and it let them march right down the field on us for game-changing scores.
The defense got continually worse - the offense continually improved  
PatersonPlank : 1/2/2019 8:58 pm : link
That is the fact, and that is what Dave G was talking about
RE: The defense got continually worse - the offense continually improved  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 9:00 pm : link
In comment 14245198 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
That is the fact, and that is what Dave G was talking about


Did the Titans game not happen?
You morons are exhuasting  
Jimmy Googs : 1/2/2019 9:02 pm : link
with which side is more to blame...real difficult to see those underlying agendas.

I guess this is what happens when Quinn finally puts together a decent Special Teams unit...

RE: RE: The defense got continually worse - the offense continually improved  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 9:02 pm : link
In comment 14245202 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14245198 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


That is the fact, and that is what Dave G was talking about



Did the Titans game not happen?


Wow 1 bad game in a downpour. The other 7 games to end the year. 30 PPG. Great job as usual numbnuts.
This offseason & draft needs to be trench heavy.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/2/2019 9:03 pm : link
If we're going to make noise in '19.
RE: RE: The defense got continually worse - the offense continually improved  
arcarsenal : 1/2/2019 9:04 pm : link
In comment 14245202 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14245198 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


That is the fact, and that is what Dave G was talking about



Did the Titans game not happen?


It happened. It rained all day, we were without our best WR, and the defense got steamrolled by Derrick Henry all day long.
RE: You morons are exhuasting  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 9:06 pm : link
In comment 14245203 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
with which side is more to blame...real difficult to see those underlying agendas.

I guess this is what happens when Quinn finally puts together a decent Special Teams unit...


Okay, finally, that one was actually funny.
Finally??  
Jimmy Googs : 1/2/2019 9:07 pm : link
thanks for the nice compliment...
Yes, you're welcome.  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 9:09 pm : link
.
RE: Well, Eliís Army...  
Bill L : 1/2/2019 9:11 pm : link
In comment 14245187 bw in dc said:
Quote:
have their major talking point for the off-season - it was the Dís fault, Eli did his part with Air Schurmur.

Youíve got schtick down, Iíll give you credit for that.

Objectively, you *could* if you choose acknowledge that the defense was putrid while still continuing to carp about the QB. Theyíre not mutually exclusive perspectives.
For Terps,  
Bill L : 1/2/2019 9:14 pm : link
Iím missing the point you made about how the Bears playing a backup QB made our offense play very well. Can you explain? Was their QB also responsible for tackling Barkley?
RE: Yes, you're welcome.  
Jimmy Googs : 1/2/2019 9:15 pm : link
In comment 14245224 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.


You would laugh more if we changed roles...
Did the defense NOT get 3-4 turnovers and a defensive TD in each  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 9:15 pm : link
Of Tampa Bay, Washington and Chicago games?

Did that not happen?

Iíd seriously have to wonder how an offense could not score when that is the case?
I think everyone here is over analyzing the whole situation...  
EricJ : 1/2/2019 9:15 pm : link
offense vs defense, etc...

The truth is that this is simply a bad team right now. We have a superstar RB, a very good diva WR when he stays on the field... and then a group of role players.

The locker room and attitude has been corrected since last year and THAT is what enabled us to win 5 games this year.

This is not on the defense or the offense. The truth is that neither played well enough this year.
RE: Did the defense NOT get 3-4 turnovers and a defensive TD in each  
BigBlueShock : 1/2/2019 9:29 pm : link
In comment 14245237 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Of Tampa Bay, Washington and Chicago games?

Did that not happen?

Iíd seriously have to wonder how an offense could not score when that is the case?

You might want to go look at the offensive production in those games...
RE: For Terps,  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 9:32 pm : link
In comment 14245234 Bill L said:
Quote:
Iím missing the point you made about how the Bears playing a backup QB made our offense play very well. Can you explain? Was their QB also responsible for tackling Barkley?


Maybe it had to do with the 3 turnovers he had? Including the pick 6.

The Giants had a drive in that game that lost yards and still scored points because of the Bears turnover.

They had another drive for a total of 18 yards and got points.

Daniels took 5 sacks and had 4 fumbles. Those kill drives and gave great field position which resulted in points.

The Giants offense had 3 real drives in that game. 75 yds, 60 yds and 49 yards for 17 pts.

The rest were a defensive TD, 18 yard FG drive and a drive for -8 yds for a FG.

The OP  
Les in TO : 1/2/2019 9:34 pm : link
Is 100% right. The defense was far from perfect and not good enough to dominate opponents - but they kept the Giants close when the season mattered and the offense was not putting points on the board. Then the trades and injuries piled up and we were playing a lot of guys who wonít be in the league next year.
RE: The OP  
BigBlueShock : 1/2/2019 9:53 pm : link
In comment 14245262 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Is 100% right. The defense was far from perfect and not good enough to dominate opponents - but they kept the Giants close when the season mattered and the offense was not putting points on the board. Then the trades and injuries piled up and we were playing a lot of guys who wonít be in the league next year.

There are three certainties in life. Death, taxes, and Les in TO being on the wrong side of right.

For those of you that took his stance prior, now is the time to backtrack...
You know when  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 9:53 pm : link
I start a post that talks about offense and defense... all of BBI finest claim how itís secretley about Eli Manning.

Yet when the usual suspects start and post a thread like this that is essentially blaming Eli.... those people are mysteriously not here.

Gotta love BBI. Shitty posters, shitty threads.
It's a team sport  
ZogZerg : 1/2/2019 10:24 pm : link
The whole team needs help.
The defense stunk up the joint too.  
Giant John : 1/2/2019 10:33 pm : link
Címon.
If DG can add  
section125 : 1/2/2019 10:38 pm : link
a couple oline, they should be fine.

But the defense needs a fleet enema.

If DG can trade Go Terps, I'd appreciate that too.
RE: RE: Well, Eliís Army...  
bw in dc : 1/2/2019 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14245231 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14245187 bw in dc said:


Quote:


have their major talking point for the off-season - it was the Dís fault, Eli did his part with Air Schurmur.


Youíve got schtick down, Iíll give you credit for that.

Objectively, you *could* if you choose acknowledge that the defense was putrid while still continuing to carp about the QB. Theyíre not mutually exclusive perspectives.


Well, if you read my first post, youíll see I acknowledge that both sides of the ball need upgrades.
This is tangential, but it occured to me.....  
WideRight : 1/2/2019 10:45 pm : link
The defense played better early in the season when Vernon was hurt.

And the offense played better later in the season, when OBJ was hurt.

Of courses coincidences like that can occur, but it certainly indicates that this team is not exactly what we think it is. It doesn't have a reliable good side.
RE: Imagine being Shurmur and Gettleman and walking into this mess...  
giantstock : 1/2/2019 11:12 pm : link
In comment 14245086 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
and having to sort it all out. It takes time.


ANd yet as DG said to start the season -- in other words when he came inhe felt it shouldn't take time--


I copied the below quote from BrettNYG10 on the thread called ďRemember When Everyone Said Defer to DG Because He's a GM.Ē

He posted the following quote that looks like came from DG:


ďI've seen someone told one of the reporters that I'm in a tear-down," Gettleman said. at the time "We're not spending $62 million on Nate Solder or signing Patrick Omameh and we're not trading for Alec Ogletree if we're in a tear-down. I'm doing that. We've evaluated the roster. We've developed a plan moving forward. It's about winning now. Who wants to lose? I don't."

The defense stinks  
Dave in PA : 1/2/2019 11:15 pm : link
They may have been a bit better this year than theyíve been at any point beyond 2012, except 2016, but thatís a very low bar to hurdle. Linebackers are lousy, no free safety to speak of, no god damn pass rush AT ALL. There is nothing this defense does well. Occasionally they play respectably for a few quarters in a row. Rarely 4 consecutive on the same day.
Case of two trains going in opposite directions....  
Doomster : 1/2/2019 11:20 pm : link
The offense started out bad, and got better as the season progressed......

The defense did just the opposite....
RE: It's absolute crazy town around here.  
montanagiant : 1/2/2019 11:44 pm : link
In comment 14245134 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
the inmates have truly taken over the asylum.

Giants.com 2.0
It's not either/or  
jcp56 : 1/3/2019 12:12 am : link
both (and special teams) had hands in the losses. In fact, I think we would have won a few early games with Coleman and Q. Henderson as our returners.

You also conveniently forgot to note the defense did well against backup and even third string QBs such as Mark Sanchize.
RE: RE: It's absolute crazy town around here.  
pa_giant_fan : 1/3/2019 6:20 am : link
In comment 14245399 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14245134 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


the inmates have truly taken over the asylum.


Giants.com 2.0

+100000000000000


RE: You know when  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 6:39 am : link
In comment 14245294 dep026 said:
Quote:
I start a post that talks about offense and defense... all of BBI finest claim how itís secretley about Eli Manning.

Yet when the usual suspects start and post a thread like this that is essentially blaming Eli.... those people are mysteriously not here.

Gotta love BBI. Shitty posters, shitty threads.
itís amusing that someone who complains religiously about BBI being crappy is here 24/7. There are other places both online and in the real world where you can spend your time if you feel you are above this website
I am loyal  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 6:46 am : link
What can I say. I think I speak for a lot of posters who wish you and your kind either grow up or leave. Iíll settle for either.
RE: RE: You know when  
giantstock : 1/3/2019 7:02 am : link
In comment 14245457 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 14245294 dep026 said:


Quote:


I start a post that talks about offense and defense... all of BBI finest claim how itís secretley about Eli Manning.

Yet when the usual suspects start and post a thread like this that is essentially blaming Eli.... those people are mysteriously not here.

Gotta love BBI. Shitty posters, shitty threads.

itís amusing that someone who complains religiously about BBI being crappy is here 24/7. There are other places both online and in the real world where you can spend your time if you feel you are above this website


Obviously he doesn't feel that way. His statement juts illustrated who he is. He has a POV and if you challenge him in any way he'll reply by misrepresenting and lying or do whatever to make himself feel better. He;s the ultimate fanatic fan that gets easily offended and when he does he'll lie/misrepresent the people that have offended him.

There's a lot of posters like that.
RE: RE: Yes, you're welcome.  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 7:15 am : link
In comment 14245235 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14245224 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


.



You would laugh more if we changed roles...


Yeah, at the company I keep.
The defense created winnable games for them early in the year  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2019 7:18 am : link
that the offense couldn't take home.

Then the defense got hurt and lost a few starters, which is kind of important.

Also, we knew in September they didn't have a pass rusher. It can't be a complaint now. THEY knew in September they didn't have a pass rush. It's why Connor Barwin's corpse got a uniform this year.

RE: RE: RE: You know when  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 7:19 am : link
In comment 14245469 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14245457 Les in TO said:


Quote:


In comment 14245294 dep026 said:


Quote:


I start a post that talks about offense and defense... all of BBI finest claim how itís secretley about Eli Manning.

Yet when the usual suspects start and post a thread like this that is essentially blaming Eli.... those people are mysteriously not here.

Gotta love BBI. Shitty posters, shitty threads.

itís amusing that someone who complains religiously about BBI being crappy is here 24/7. There are other places both online and in the real world where you can spend your time if you feel you are above this website



Obviously he doesn't feel that way. His statement juts illustrated who he is. He has a POV and if you challenge him in any way he'll reply by misrepresenting and lying or do whatever to make himself feel better. He;s the ultimate fanatic fan that gets easily offended and when he does he'll lie/misrepresent the people that have offended him.

There's a lot of posters like that.


Like you??? Whoís posting all week has been 100% BS. Please tell us again how all of us are close minded when it comes to wanting a new QB. Was that a lie or just you being wrong?

I quoted everything you said and wrote in my responses. Sorry it doesnít fit your agenda/narrative.
All things considered  
UberAlias : 1/3/2019 8:01 am : link
I thought the defense did okay. Were they good, no. But they kept them in games, they were just undermanned.

The defense lacked talent and depth to begin with. Then they traded away two starters who were among their better players in Snacks and Apple. OV missed some games, Collins went on IR, Ogletree missed three game. After Collins was IRed, I honestly don't recognize any of the names in the secondary outside of JackRabbit. They had a couple of kids still improving anchoring the D-line.

Like 99% of the arguments around here, this who's to blame shit feels a lot like another way of resurfacing the QB argument in another form.
It's funny  
rsjem1979 : 1/3/2019 8:21 am : link
A lot of the same people who have been proudly and hopefully talking about how competitive the Giants were in several games seem to be ignoring that the only reason they were even rotely in many of them was the defense keeping the deficit somewhat reasonable.

Games against Dallas, Atlanta, New Orleans and the first Redskins game come to mind. The offense couldn't do jack shit, which created the feeling that any deficit was insurmountable.

You know, the part of the season before the Giants were essentially eliminated. I'm not here to tell you the defense didn't fall apart, but let's not forget how poorly the offense played in earning a 1-7 record. The whole team sucked at different times. Recency bias aside, that's a fact.
In a 6 game stretch  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 8:35 am : link
from Dallas to Atlanta..... only the Philly game did we force a punt in the 4th. And we were down 34-13 in that game so they literally stopped trying. The other games:

Dallas: 14 plays 82 yards - TD
Houston: 4 plays 53 yards - INT (good one by the defense)
7 plays 77 yards - TD
12 plays 85 yards - TD (garbage time TD)
Saints: 14 plays 74 yards - TD
6 plays 83 yards - TD
Panthers: 9 plays 53 yards - TD
2 plays INT - Good job by defense
12 plays 59 yards - TD
7 plays 30 yards - FG
Falcons: 9 plays 65 yards - TD
8 plays 47 yards - FG

So in those 5 games where the key was still in hand going into the 4th. We went 1-4. The results...

12 drives
104 plays
60 yards per drive
8 TDs
2 FGs
2 INTs

Good defense.... Says who?
RE: It's funny  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 8:43 am : link
In comment 14245519 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
A lot of the same people who have been proudly and hopefully talking about how competitive the Giants were in several games seem to be ignoring that the only reason they were even rotely in many of them was the defense keeping the deficit somewhat reasonable.

Games against Dallas, Atlanta, New Orleans and the first Redskins game come to mind. The offense couldn't do jack shit, which created the feeling that any deficit was insurmountable.

You know, the part of the season before the Giants were essentially eliminated. I'm not here to tell you the defense didn't fall apart, but let's not forget how poorly the offense played in earning a 1-7 record. The whole team sucked at different times. Recency bias aside, that's a fact.


Also the defense went bad once the season was essentially over and our GM traded away its best player and another starter and was looking to move the other CB and our SS as well.. I can't see a defense playing well when all this has happened.. Yes the offense was better by the end of the season.. and the defense was worse.. but its only because you traded away its best player.. its second best player got injured..

Also overall Giants have just not spent the kind of resources on Defense as they have on offense.. Most high picks are on offensive side over the past 5 years.. Our QB and WR are 2 of the highest paid players.. Besides when your offense can't move a yard in the final drive against Dallas and not get anything going on the final drive in Indy.. it tells me offense is still broken.. Please do not ignore the offense.. it still needs fixing.. D also needs fixing since we intentionally made additional holes on that side of the ball..
First off..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 8:49 am : link
the hypothesis of the thread itself is flawed. Nobody is creating a narrative that the defense is completely at fault. People noted that the offense improved at the end of the year and that the defense gave up leads and a lot of points.

But here's the rub - so many posters want to pigeon hole things into a black/white deal. when it is pointed out that the offensive production improved, it isn't just that it was a positive sign to end the year - it is portrayed that this signifies the defense sucked, the offense is great and Eli Manning will be the QB for years to come. It is frustrating as hell.

You even have offshoots of this where posters who have been serially down on the team call out posters saying anything positive as being "happy" with the season.

Nobody is happy, the TEAM is bad and most fans are frustrated.

Why those three points derail threads is the true question to get at.
RE: In a 6 game stretch  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 8:51 am : link
In comment 14245531 dep026 said:
Quote:
from Dallas to Atlanta..... only the Philly game did we force a punt in the 4th. And we were down 34-13 in that game so they literally stopped trying. The other games:

Dallas: 14 plays 82 yards - TD
Houston: 4 plays 53 yards - INT (good one by the defense)
7 plays 77 yards - TD
12 plays 85 yards - TD (garbage time TD)
Saints: 14 plays 74 yards - TD
6 plays 83 yards - TD
Panthers: 9 plays 53 yards - TD
2 plays INT - Good job by defense
12 plays 59 yards - TD
7 plays 30 yards - FG
Falcons: 9 plays 65 yards - TD
8 plays 47 yards - FG

So in those 5 games where the key was still in hand going into the 4th. We went 1-4. The results...

12 drives
104 plays
60 yards per drive
8 TDs
2 FGs
2 INTs

Good defense.... Says who?
the defense was worn out in the 4th ; they didnít have a break because the offense could not sustain drives. Again no one is saying the defense was excellent but they kept us in many games
It's insane.  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 8:52 am : link
All you have to do is compare the amount of threads started on a daily basis to slam Eli Manning, and/or Gettleman/Shurmur, to the amount meant to slam the defense.
RE: RE: In a 6 game stretch  
jeff57 : 1/3/2019 8:52 am : link
In comment 14245555 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 14245531 dep026 said:


Quote:


from Dallas to Atlanta..... only the Philly game did we force a punt in the 4th. And we were down 34-13 in that game so they literally stopped trying. The other games:

Dallas: 14 plays 82 yards - TD
Houston: 4 plays 53 yards - INT (good one by the defense)
7 plays 77 yards - TD
12 plays 85 yards - TD (garbage time TD)
Saints: 14 plays 74 yards - TD
6 plays 83 yards - TD
Panthers: 9 plays 53 yards - TD
2 plays INT - Good job by defense
12 plays 59 yards - TD
7 plays 30 yards - FG
Falcons: 9 plays 65 yards - TD
8 plays 47 yards - FG

So in those 5 games where the key was still in hand going into the 4th. We went 1-4. The results...

12 drives
104 plays
60 yards per drive
8 TDs
2 FGs
2 INTs

Good defense.... Says who?

the defense was worn out in the 4th ; they didnít have a break because the offense could not sustain drives. Again no one is saying the defense was excellent but they kept us in many games


What was the excuse last Sunday when the offense took the lead late in the game.
The defense  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 8:55 am : link
gave it back?

Didnt the offense score 17 points in the 4th quarter? 17!!!!!
RE: RE: In a 6 game stretch  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 8:58 am : link
In comment 14245555 Les in TO said:
Quote:

the defense was worn out in the 4th ; they didnít have a break because the offense could not sustain drives. Again no one is saying the defense was excellent but they kept us in many games


False. Through the first 8 games, the Giants had a lower TOP than the oppostition by less than a minute. Including many of those games where they had the ball more through 3 quarters. Being worn out is not an excuse. Good try though.
In the 5 games I listed  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 9:03 am : link
the Giants TOP was higher in 3 of the 5 games. Worn out? Good try Les. You may get one right sooner or later.
RE: RE: It's funny  
bw in dc : 1/3/2019 9:03 am : link
In comment 14245543 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:


Also the defense went bad once the season was essentially over and our GM traded away its best player and another starter and was looking to move the other CB and our SS as well.. I can't see a defense playing well when all this has happened.. Yes the offense was better by the end of the season.. and the defense was worse.. but its only because you traded away its best player.. its second best player got injured..

Also overall Giants have just not spent the kind of resources on Defense as they have on offense.. Most high picks are on offensive side over the past 5 years.. Our QB and WR are 2 of the highest paid players.. Besides when your offense can't move a yard in the final drive against Dallas and not get anything going on the final drive in Indy.. it tells me offense is still broken.. Please do not ignore the offense.. it still needs fixing.. D also needs fixing since we intentionally made additional holes on that side of the ball..


Excellent point about the liquidation sale that took place on the D once it was determined the season was likely over. That definitely would impact morale.
It...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 9:05 am : link
likely impacted performance, not morale.
When you have a team  
Dnew15 : 1/3/2019 9:09 am : link
that has a defense that can't get a key stop to win a game and QB that can't lead a team to victory with a game winning drive the team will go 8-28 over a two year stretch.
They are both a problem, that will take years to fix.
RE: In a 6 game stretch  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 9:10 am : link
In comment 14245531 dep026 said:
Quote:
from Dallas to Atlanta..... only the Philly game did we force a punt in the 4th. And we were down 34-13 in that game so they literally stopped trying. The other games:

Dallas: 14 plays 82 yards - TD
Houston: 4 plays 53 yards - INT (good one by the defense)
7 plays 77 yards - TD
12 plays 85 yards - TD (garbage time TD)
Saints: 14 plays 74 yards - TD
6 plays 83 yards - TD
Panthers: 9 plays 53 yards - TD
2 plays INT - Good job by defense
12 plays 59 yards - TD
7 plays 30 yards - FG
Falcons: 9 plays 65 yards - TD
8 plays 47 yards - FG

So in those 5 games where the key was still in hand going into the 4th. We went 1-4. The results...

12 drives
104 plays
60 yards per drive
8 TDs
2 FGs
2 INTs

Good defense.... Says who?


So we don't have a good defense.. thats not news to anyone here.. By the same token.. any decent offense wins that game against dallas by moving the ball 25 yards against the defense and getting the field goal.. Almost the same thing in Indy.. An average offense in 2018 is expected to do those things.. Ours still doesn't.. so don't get so hyped up about our offense it still below average..
RE: When you have a team  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 9:10 am : link
In comment 14245589 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
that has a defense that can't get a key stop to win a game and QB that can't lead a team to victory with a game winning drive the team will go 8-28 over a two year stretch.
They are both a problem, that will take years to fix.


Eli had 2 this year. And would have had two more if the defense didnt collapse against Carolina and Dallas.
RE: It...  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 9:12 am : link
In comment 14245579 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
likely impacted performance, not morale.


I dunno.. I saw business decisions being made by the Giants defense in the second half of the season.. Once you let the news out that everyone was available for trade including home grown Collins.. players realize whats happening..
He had 3 in two years!  
Dnew15 : 1/3/2019 9:29 am : link
by comparison:
Dak has 9
Wentz and Foles combined for 7
Shoot - the Redskins duo of "Big Game Choke Artist" Kirk Cousins had 4 and Josh Johnson had 1 in 3 games for Washington.
If you can't rush the passer  
NoPeanutz : 1/3/2019 9:29 am : link
your defense sucks. End of story. Regardless of how many points you give up.
The Giants defense could not get pressure, AND they lost 11 games. Is it the only problem? Certainly not. Is it a huge and significant problem worth addressing? Hell yes.
RE: He had 3 in two years!  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 9:30 am : link
In comment 14245619 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
by comparison:
Dak has 9
Wentz and Foles combined for 7
Shoot - the Redskins duo of "Big Game Choke Artist" Kirk Cousins had 4 and Josh Johnson had 1 in 3 games for Washington.


How many would he have in the past three years if the defense hadn't given up walk off scores as time expired is probably a relevant question. Because there have been more than a few.
RE: He had 3 in two years!  
NoPeanutz : 1/3/2019 9:30 am : link
In comment 14245619 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
by comparison:
Dak has 9
Wentz and Foles combined for 7
Shoot - the Redskins duo of "Big Game Choke Artist" Kirk Cousins had 4 and Josh Johnson had 1 in 3 games for Washington.

When you play the 8-24 Giants four times in that span...
RE: RE: In a 6 game stretch  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 9:36 am : link
In comment 14245591 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:


So we don't have a good defense.. thats not news to anyone here.. By the same token.. any decent offense wins that game against dallas by moving the ball 25 yards against the defense and getting the field goal.. Almost the same thing in Indy.. An average offense in 2018 is expected to do those things.. Ours still doesn't.. so don't get so hyped up about our offense it still below average..


The Giants scored 17 points in the 4th quarter. Took the lead 3 different times. Are we really getting on them for failing ONE TIME!!!
Britt-  
Dnew15 : 1/3/2019 9:37 am : link
I'm not claiming that the Eli is the only problem. He is part of it though.
It's a chicken and egg debate.
Last Sunday's game against the Cowboys is a perfect example of how both are the problem.
The Giants defense couldn't stop some no name TE to preserve a win and then Eli couldn't get the offense 30 yards with a minute left (and a TO) for a potential game winning FG.
They both suck at this point and I'm tired of watching both knowing what the final outcome is going to be.
RE: He had 3 in two years!  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 9:37 am : link
In comment 14245619 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
by comparison:
Dak has 9
Wentz and Foles combined for 7
Shoot - the Redskins duo of "Big Game Choke Artist" Kirk Cousins had 4 and Josh Johnson had 1 in 3 games for Washington.


How many did the defenses blow? And we are really using the 2017 team who was decimated by injuries on both sides of the ball.

The defense gave up the lead 6 times on final drives this year. SIX TIMES!!!!
RE: Britt-  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 9:39 am : link
In comment 14245642 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
I'm not claiming that the Eli is the only problem. He is part of it though.
It's a chicken and egg debate.
Last Sunday's game against the Cowboys is a perfect example of how both are the problem.
The Giants defense couldn't stop some no name TE to preserve a win and then Eli couldn't get the offense 30 yards with a minute left (and a TO) for a potential game winning FG.
They both suck at this point and I'm tired of watching both knowing what the final outcome is going to be.


Yes, it is a team game and on a losing team everybody is to blame.

I just don't understand threads like these trying to absolve what everybody knows to be a sh-tty defense.

It's weird.
RE: When you have a team  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 9:45 am : link
In comment 14245589 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
that has a defense that can't get a key stop to win a game and QB that can't lead a team to victory with a game winning drive the team will go 8-28 over a two year stretch.
They are both a problem, that will take years to fix.
yup
RE: In the 5 games I listed  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14245572 dep026 said:
Quote:
the Giants TOP was higher in 3 of the 5 games. Worn out? Good try Les. You may get one right sooner or later.
the Giants were 29th in time of possession 25th in third down conversion percentage in the nfl and 14th in pints. The offense did not sustain drives consistently this season. The defense was not good enough to win games on their own like they did throughout the 2007 and 2011 playoffs or more recently 2016
it is totally weird Britt  
Dnew15 : 1/3/2019 9:58 am : link
It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.
RE: RE: In the 5 games I listed  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 9:59 am : link
In comment 14245691 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 14245572 dep026 said:


Quote:


the Giants TOP was higher in 3 of the 5 games. Worn out? Good try Les. You may get one right sooner or later.

the Giants were 29th in time of possession 25th in third down conversion percentage in the nfl and 14th in pints. The offense did not sustain drives consistently this season. The defense was not good enough to win games on their own like they did throughout the 2007 and 2011 playoffs or more recently 2016


What about the first 8 games in which I mentioned? Where the TOP was much different? What about the 3 games in the 5 game stretch where they couldnt get off the field when they had the ball longer than their opponents?

The defense sucked at the end of the year.... we all know this. But the the fact is they sucked at the beginning too.
It's just..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 9:59 am : link
a fucking joke at this point:

Quote:
The defense was not good enough to win games on their own like they did throughout the 2007 and 2011 playoffs or more recently 2016


The defense won playoff games on their own?

The fucking lengths one will go combined with a subpar Canadian education system gives us nuggets of shit like this....
RE: it is totally weird Britt  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14245695 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.


Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.
How can the mods  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:06 am : link
not see Les is just here to troll from this point on?
Responding to threads that  
Dnew15 : 1/3/2019 10:08 am : link
are slamming him - no doubt.
Again  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:12 am : link
no one is saying the offense didnt have a part of the poor start. of course they did.

Whats eye scratching is people are still blaming the offense for the last two games. Thats where the problem lies with assessing blame.

Can we blame the offense for a no show against Jax, Dallas first time, Washington, and Atlanta. Absolutely. No one is innocent in those games.

But the narratives that Eli cant lead us from behind (false.)
The narrative that the offense failed us in the last two games (false)
The narrative that the defense was worn down early (false)

We have to separate fantasy from reality at some point.
RE: I am loyal  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/3/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14245461 dep026 said:
Quote:
What can I say. I think I speak for a lot of posters who wish you and your kind either grow up or leave. Iíll settle for either.

Loyal enough to get banned and spend the better part of a year supposedly claiming to not want to come back. That's how you know it's true loyalty, right?

I agree though. I also wish some posters would either grow up or leave. I'll settle for either too.
RE: RE: it is totally weird Britt  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/3/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14245701 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14245695 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.



Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.

When they're replying within a minute of the OP, is there even a difference anymore? Sitting on the main page and hitting refresh so they can immediately jump into a new thread isn't any less frightening than repeatedly starting those new threads, IMO.
RE: RE: I am loyal  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:22 am : link
In comment 14245752 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14245461 dep026 said:


Quote:


What can I say. I think I speak for a lot of posters who wish you and your kind either grow up or leave. Iíll settle for either.


Loyal enough to get banned and spend the better part of a year supposedly claiming to not want to come back. That's how you know it's true loyalty, right?

I agree though. I also wish some posters would either grow up or leave. I'll settle for either too.


You respond to me a lot but never talk about the post. Kind of creepy dude. I mean you did that on BBH and ratted on me (as per Rich by the way, so you can claim I'm making something up again...)

Its all good. I see you are on your cmputer refreshing the page to see what I post. I am glad I serve a purpose for you.
RE: RE: RE: it is totally weird Britt  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 10:24 am : link
In comment 14245756 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14245701 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14245695 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.



Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.


When they're replying within a minute of the OP, is there even a difference anymore? Sitting on the main page and hitting refresh so they can immediately jump into a new thread isn't any less frightening than repeatedly starting those new threads, IMO.


Is that what happened on this thread?
RE: RE: RE: RE: it is totally weird Britt  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:30 am : link
In comment 14245774 Britt in VA said:
Quote:


Of course not britt. He just is responding to me when I didnt first post until there were 50 replies. Just more nonsense from him.
RE: How can the mods  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14245715 dep026 said:
Quote:
not see Les is just here to troll from this point on?
troll? I think you need to look in the mirror before calling anyone a troll . If you followed my posting history for 22 years on this site you would know Iím not a troll and post on a lot of different topics. Did you actually complain about my posts on this thread to the moderators? Thatís both funny and sad.
I didnt report you to the mods  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:33 am : link
I just asked how the hell they cant see you for what you really are. I think you are a phony. I think you are a one schtick phony for that matter.
RE: RE: RE: I am loyal  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/3/2019 10:41 am : link
In comment 14245770 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14245752 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14245461 dep026 said:


Quote:


What can I say. I think I speak for a lot of posters who wish you and your kind either grow up or leave. Iíll settle for either.


Loyal enough to get banned and spend the better part of a year supposedly claiming to not want to come back. That's how you know it's true loyalty, right?

I agree though. I also wish some posters would either grow up or leave. I'll settle for either too.



You respond to me a lot but never talk about the post. Kind of creepy dude. I mean you did that on BBH and ratted on me (as per Rich by the way, so you can claim I'm making something up again...)

Its all good. I see you are on your cmputer refreshing the page to see what I post. I am glad I serve a purpose for you.

I just wanted to make sure you serve some purpose for somebody.

That said, my last post on BBH was over a decade ago and I'm not sure what I would have "ratted" on you for - were you up to some sort of nefarious acts? Do you have any idea how batshit insane it is that you continue to bring up stuff from BBH and BBWC from 15 years ago? It's really creepy.

Not that you care for any advice from me, so ignore it if you'd prefer, but get out of the house. Go make some friends. Do literally anything other than worrying about a completely different message board in a completely different decade.
RE: I didnt report you to the mods  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 10:42 am : link
In comment 14245791 dep026 said:
Quote:
I just asked how the hell they cant see you for what you really are. I think you are a phony. I think you are a one schtick phony for that matter.
the moderators will remove content and posters in response to a complaint that violates the terms of use. They donít proactively delete content. Which makes me wonder why you expect the moderators to have banned me unless you complained about something in this thread.

I really could not care less what you think about me. you are wrong and have selective vision because I post on different topics. I happen to think you are a toxic angry and confrontational person and this site was much better when you were banned.
RE: RE: RE: RE: it is totally weird Britt  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/3/2019 10:42 am : link
In comment 14245774 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14245756 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14245701 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14245695 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.



Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.


When they're replying within a minute of the OP, is there even a difference anymore? Sitting on the main page and hitting refresh so they can immediately jump into a new thread isn't any less frightening than repeatedly starting those new threads, IMO.



Is that what happened on this thread?

Nope. Should I link the threads where it has?
Buddy  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:44 am : link
the last thing I worry about is you. I mean I dont even reply to a lot of your inane posts, but you sure seem to find mine and respond to me. So who has the problem? I certainly dont. I dont go looking for posters and try to rip them apart when I dont know them. You have done it to me on various site hence why I reference them because it shows a pattern. You've done it for years. Its really creepy dude.

But again, you dont need to worry about me. I have a great job. I coach. I have two wonderful daughters who mean the world to me and make the Giants seasons of recent years seem meaningless.

You, OTOH, I hope you find what you need to fill the void in your life. If its stalking me around liek you have always done.... then so be it. Take care.
Knock yourself out...  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 10:45 am : link
Still doesn't change the fact that people starting a million threads a day slamming Manning and placing the blame solely on him.

Of course people will respond when they read something that they blatantly disagree with, or that is not rooted in reality.
RE: Again  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14245736 dep026 said:
Quote:
no one is saying the offense didnt have a part of the poor start. of course they did.

Whats eye scratching is people are still blaming the offense for the last two games. Thats where the problem lies with assessing blame.

Can we blame the offense for a no show against Jax, Dallas first time, Washington, and Atlanta. Absolutely. No one is innocent in those games.

But the narratives that Eli cant lead us from behind (false.)
The narrative that the offense failed us in the last two games (false)
The narrative that the defense was worn down early (false)

We have to separate fantasy from reality at some point.


some of your narratives are insane.. good offenses in 2018 get the field goal against dallas.. that was a gimme.. also above you mention how the defense screwed up the games against Saints and Falcons.. did you ever bother watching them before they played the giants? Teams had scored 43, 37, 41, and 29 against them before they faced the giants.. giants scored 6 meaningful points in that game.. then with less than 5 minutes to go Giants great offense score 14 points once the game had already been decided.. 8 of those came with less than 10 seconds to go (ATL basically didn't care about anything at that point).. Both NO and ATL offenses were kept well below their normal scores going into the 4th quarter.. in the meantime our offense was well below scoring level against their defenses.. Don't blame the defenses for that game.. our offense sucked far more in those games than did our defense..
RE: RE: I didnt report you to the mods  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:46 am : link
In comment 14245807 Les in TO said:
Quote:

I really could not care less what you think about me. you are wrong and have selective vision because I post on different topics. I happen to think you are a toxic angry and confrontational person and this site was much better when you were banned.


Thats great. I think the site would be much better without. See how this works?

I am confrontational to people who call a fan boy, elitist, or anything that mocks people supporting Eli. Are you going to deny you call posters that?
Jesus..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 10:47 am : link
Christ:

Quote:
I really could not care less what you think about me. you are wrong and have selective vision because I post on different topics. I happen to think you are a toxic angry and confrontational person and this site was much better when you were banned.


As opposed to a poster that calls people the Cult of Eli and Eli fanboys constantly?

Everyone knows the fucking reason you have posted continually that the defense carried the team in 2007 and 2011, and it has nothing to do with making the site better.

what a disingenuous fuck.
RE: RE: Again  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:49 am : link
In comment 14245816 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:

some of your narratives are insane.. good offenses in 2018 get the field goal against dallas.. that was a gimme.. also above you mention how the defense screwed up the games against Saints and Falcons.. did you ever bother watching them before they played the giants? Teams had scored 43, 37, 41, and 29 against them before they faced the giants.. giants scored 6 meaningful points in that game.. then with less than 5 minutes to go Giants great offense score 14 points once the game had already been decided.. 8 of those came with less than 10 seconds to go (ATL basically didn't care about anything at that point).. Both NO and ATL offenses were kept well below their normal scores going into the 4th quarter.. in the meantime our offense was well below scoring level against their defenses.. Don't blame the defenses for that game.. our offense sucked far more in those games than did our defense..


Good offenses take care of gimmes? There are no guarantees in football. They offense stalled. It happens. The Giants scored 17 points in the 4th quarter and since 4 plays didnt go there way - they failed? Thats really weird logic, dont you think?

And I mentioned the offensive failures in Atlanta. Did I not? So how is that inane narratives?
RE: Knock yourself out...  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/3/2019 10:50 am : link
In comment 14245814 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Still doesn't change the fact that people starting a million threads a day slamming Manning and placing the blame solely on him.

Of course people will respond when they read something that they blatantly disagree with, or that is not rooted in reality.

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C
RE: RE: Knock yourself out...  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:51 am : link
In comment 14245824 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14245814 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


Still doesn't change the fact that people starting a million threads a day slamming Manning and placing the blame solely on him.

Of course people will respond when they read something that they blatantly disagree with, or that is not rooted in reality.


Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Exhibit C


lol. You're obsession with me is an all time hight
RE: RE: RE: Again  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 10:57 am : link
In comment 14245823 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14245816 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:



some of your narratives are insane.. good offenses in 2018 get the field goal against dallas.. that was a gimme.. also above you mention how the defense screwed up the games against Saints and Falcons.. did you ever bother watching them before they played the giants? Teams had scored 43, 37, 41, and 29 against them before they faced the giants.. giants scored 6 meaningful points in that game.. then with less than 5 minutes to go Giants great offense score 14 points once the game had already been decided.. 8 of those came with less than 10 seconds to go (ATL basically didn't care about anything at that point).. Both NO and ATL offenses were kept well below their normal scores going into the 4th quarter.. in the meantime our offense was well below scoring level against their defenses.. Don't blame the defenses for that game.. our offense sucked far more in those games than did our defense..



Good offenses take care of gimmes? There are no guarantees in football. They offense stalled. It happens. The Giants scored 17 points in the 4th quarter and since 4 plays didnt go there way - they failed? Thats really weird logic, dont you think?

And I mentioned the offensive failures in Atlanta. Did I not? So how is that inane narratives?


No but you keep trying to pass the blame only to the defense.. our offense sucked at the beginning of the year.. our defense was respectable.. by the end of the year the roles were reversed.. but at neither stage did any of them look good.. plus defense has the excuse of starters being traded.. JPP, Snacks, Apple and then Landon Collins being hurt..
GD convienantely leaves us  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 10:58 am : link
https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577782

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577778

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577764

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577779

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577789

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577781

https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=577359&thread_page=1


Threads from the first page alone about Eli where I neither posted or posted well into the thread. Selective reading. Usually the case when someone stalks you.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Again  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 11:01 am : link
In comment 14245840 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:

No but you keep trying to pass the blame only to the defense.. our offense sucked at the beginning of the year.. our defense was respectable.. by the end of the year the roles were reversed.. but at neither stage did any of them look good.. plus defense has the excuse of starters being traded.. JPP, Snacks, Apple and then Landon Collins being hurt..


How am I only blaming the defense when I said the offense sputtered against 4 of the first 7 teams we played? And if you are going to make excuses for the defnes,e you can do it for the offense too.

The fact is we were by far the worst 4th quarter defense in the NFL this year. This from the start to the end. The fact is we blew 6 leads in the last 2 minutes. The fact is we didnt force a punt in 5 of 6 games in the the 1-7 start. These facts cannot be denied. And the failure of the defenses included Snacks and Apple. And JPP was never on this team so he is irrelevant. And Collins was healthy for the majority of the year.

The defense failed us in the 4th quarter from game 2 all the way to game 16. The offensive production is a separate issue.
RE: Jesus..  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14245820 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Christ:



Quote:


I really could not care less what you think about me. you are wrong and have selective vision because I post on different topics. I happen to think you are a toxic angry and confrontational person and this site was much better when you were banned.



As opposed to a poster that calls people the Cult of Eli and Eli fanboys constantly?

Everyone knows the fucking reason you have posted continually that the defense carried the team in 2007 and 2011, and it has nothing to do with making the site better.

what a disingenuous fuck.
speaking of angry toxic and confrontational ....
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 11:09 am : link
In comment 14245847 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14245840 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:



No but you keep trying to pass the blame only to the defense.. our offense sucked at the beginning of the year.. our defense was respectable.. by the end of the year the roles were reversed.. but at neither stage did any of them look good.. plus defense has the excuse of starters being traded.. JPP, Snacks, Apple and then Landon Collins being hurt..



How am I only blaming the defense when I said the offense sputtered against 4 of the first 7 teams we played? And if you are going to make excuses for the defnes,e you can do it for the offense too.

The fact is we were by far the worst 4th quarter defense in the NFL this year. This from the start to the end. The fact is we blew 6 leads in the last 2 minutes. The fact is we didnt force a punt in 5 of 6 games in the the 1-7 start. These facts cannot be denied. And the failure of the defenses included Snacks and Apple. And JPP was never on this team so he is irrelevant. And Collins was healthy for the majority of the year.

The defense failed us in the 4th quarter from game 2 all the way to game 16. The offensive production is a separate issue.


Which 3 games did the offense not sputter in the first 7 games?
.  
arcarsenal : 1/3/2019 11:10 am : link
I still don't understand what we're doing here. If the idea is somehow that the defense wasn't bad for most of the season, I don't know what anyone would have been watching to arrive at that (incorrect) conclusion.

If the idea is that the defense isn't the only side of the ball that needs help, well.... no shit.

It looks like we've devolved entirely into personal attacks and arguing over nonsense, though - so the football portion of this thread (whatever it was), appears to be in the rear view anyway.
RE: .  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14245866 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I still don't understand what we're doing here. If the idea is somehow that the defense wasn't bad for most of the season, I don't know what anyone would have been watching to arrive at that (incorrect) conclusion.

If the idea is that the defense isn't the only side of the ball that needs help, well.... no shit.

It looks like we've devolved entirely into personal attacks and arguing over nonsense, though - so the football portion of this thread (whatever it was), appears to be in the rear view anyway.


Perfectly sums up the state of this website currently.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14245864 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 14245847 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14245840 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:



No but you keep trying to pass the blame only to the defense.. our offense sucked at the beginning of the year.. our defense was respectable.. by the end of the year the roles were reversed.. but at neither stage did any of them look good.. plus defense has the excuse of starters being traded.. JPP, Snacks, Apple and then Landon Collins being hurt..



How am I only blaming the defense when I said the offense sputtered against 4 of the first 7 teams we played? And if you are going to make excuses for the defnes,e you can do it for the offense too.

The fact is we were by far the worst 4th quarter defense in the NFL this year. This from the start to the end. The fact is we blew 6 leads in the last 2 minutes. The fact is we didnt force a punt in 5 of 6 games in the the 1-7 start. These facts cannot be denied. And the failure of the defenses included Snacks and Apple. And JPP was never on this team so he is irrelevant. And Collins was healthy for the majority of the year.

The defense failed us in the 4th quarter from game 2 all the way to game 16. The offensive production is a separate issue.



Which 3 games did the offense not sputter in the first 7 games?


Houston, Carolina, Saints. The Saints game looks bad on paper. But the lost fumble by Gallman and Penalties were a killer. We did move the ball on them and had it at one score game with 5 minutes to go.
RE: .  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 11:14 am : link
In comment 14245866 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I still don't understand what we're doing here. If the idea is somehow that the defense wasn't bad for most of the season, I don't know what anyone would have been watching to arrive at that (incorrect) conclusion.

If the idea is that the defense isn't the only side of the ball that needs help, well.... no shit.

It looks like we've devolved entirely into personal attacks and arguing over nonsense, though - so the football portion of this thread (whatever it was), appears to be in the rear view anyway.


Good post Arc. Ill take responsibility of responding to the posters who had no interest in talking about the post. Ive got to be better.
I have mixed feelings  
Matt M. : 1/3/2019 11:44 am : link
First, this season was terrible due to a lot of reasons. Second, while the defense allowed less than 25 points in all those early losses referenced in the original post, they also allowed the late score to seal the loss in most. I don't care if they only allowed 7 points, if that TD was given up in the 4th Q and resulted in a loss.

This doesn't absolve the offense. Their output was not enough in the first 8 games. But, look back at the games where they hang around, Barkley scores a TD late in the 4th, only to have the lead given right back and resulting in a loss. Win one or two of those games early, you don't what kind of residual effects it has on the season.

All this said, I think the offense was pathetic. That lies with a terrible OL, bad coaching, bad gameplanning, and bad playcalling, in my opinion. Also, while we saw better output in the second half and a lot has been attributed to adding Jamon Brown, our running game actually took a hit once OBJ went out. Brown certainly helped us, but the OL went from downright terrible and likely the worst in the league to simply fall in the bottom 1/3. We still need serious upgrades simply to be an average to slightly above average OL. That should give the overall offense a tremendous boost next year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Again  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14245869 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14245864 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


In comment 14245847 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 14245840 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:



No but you keep trying to pass the blame only to the defense.. our offense sucked at the beginning of the year.. our defense was respectable.. by the end of the year the roles were reversed.. but at neither stage did any of them look good.. plus defense has the excuse of starters being traded.. JPP, Snacks, Apple and then Landon Collins being hurt..



How am I only blaming the defense when I said the offense sputtered against 4 of the first 7 teams we played? And if you are going to make excuses for the defnes,e you can do it for the offense too.

The fact is we were by far the worst 4th quarter defense in the NFL this year. This from the start to the end. The fact is we blew 6 leads in the last 2 minutes. The fact is we didnt force a punt in 5 of 6 games in the the 1-7 start. These facts cannot be denied. And the failure of the defenses included Snacks and Apple. And JPP was never on this team so he is irrelevant. And Collins was healthy for the majority of the year.

The defense failed us in the 4th quarter from game 2 all the way to game 16. The offensive production is a separate issue.



Which 3 games did the offense not sputter in the first 7 games?



Houston, Carolina, Saints. The Saints game looks bad on paper. But the lost fumble by Gallman and Penalties were a killer. We did move the ball on them and had it at one score game with 5 minutes to go.


See thats what I mean.. what you described there is sputtering.. Carolina game, the giants offense sputtered.. Dallas and Atlanta.. they didn't sputter.. they actually sucked, were bad, horrible..
The offense sputtered against  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 12:17 pm : link
Carolina....

Um, ok.
RE: The offense sputtered against  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14245973 dep026 said:
Quote:
Carolina....

Um, ok.

Turnovers.. its still much closer to sputtering then calling the Jags game as just sputtering and not a bad offensive game..
The Carolina..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 12:25 pm : link
game was a travesty on many levels, but the offense sputtering wasn't really one of them.

They had not one, not two, but three third down stops on D overturned by penalties, one of which was an INT where Collins was deemed to have hit a defenseless WR.

Then, they scored two TD's in the last few minutes to take the lead, only to have Carolina be given a phantom 1st down to set up the winning FG.

I challenge anyone to find a play in the history of the NFL where an intercepting player is called for a personal foul for an illegal hit.
RE: The Carolina..  
chuckydee9 : 1/3/2019 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14245988 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
game was a travesty on many levels, but the offense sputtering wasn't really one of them.

They had not one, not two, but three third down stops on D overturned by penalties, one of which was an INT where Collins was deemed to have hit a defenseless WR.

Then, they scored two TD's in the last few minutes to take the lead, only to have Carolina be given a phantom 1st down to set up the winning FG.

I challenge anyone to find a play in the history of the NFL where an intercepting player is called for a personal foul for an illegal hit.


Yes.. and on many levels.. ok so the giants O didn't sputter in 2 games out of the first 7.. but then you can't call the jags, dallas and ATL game as just sputtering..
it amazes me  
YAJ2112 : 1/3/2019 12:31 pm : link
that some of you can endlessly debate this.

Fact - Both the offense and defense were responsible for our poor record in 2018. Does it really fucking matter if it was a 68-32 split or a 27-73 split? Both units need improvement.
The Defense wouldnt have been so bad  
MetsAreBack : 1/3/2019 12:33 pm : link
If at 1-7, management hadn't decided to trade defensive assets for picks.

And it was the right call - not sure what people are complaining about.. would we have preferred to finish 7-9 or 8-8 ...to 5-11?

I wouldn't. I'll take the 6th overall pick. Thanks.
RE: RE: The offense sputtered against  
dep026 : 1/3/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14245980 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 14245973 dep026 said:


Quote:


Carolina....

Um, ok.


Turnovers.. its still much closer to sputtering then calling the Jags game as just sputtering and not a bad offensive game..


We scored 31 points. They didnt sputter. Come on.
RE: The Defense wouldnt have been so bad  
NoPeanutz : 1/3/2019 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14246000 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
If at 1-7, management hadn't decided to trade defensive assets for picks.

And it was the right call - not sure what people are complaining about.. would we have preferred to finish 7-9 or 8-8 ...to 5-11?

I wouldn't. I'll take the 6th overall pick. Thanks.

Snacks was a good player. But what did Eli Apple do here to stand out?
RE: RE: The Defense wouldnt have been so bad  
MetsAreBack : 1/3/2019 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14246036 NoPeanutz said:
Quote:
In comment 14246000 MetsAreBack said:


Quote:


If at 1-7, management hadn't decided to trade defensive assets for picks.

And it was the right call - not sure what people are complaining about.. would we have preferred to finish 7-9 or 8-8 ...to 5-11?

I wouldn't. I'll take the 6th overall pick. Thanks.


Snacks was a good player. But what did Eli Apple do here to stand out?


He was better than next man up. That's the point. He does start for the number 1 seed Saints after all.
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