Recently we are seeing this rush to say the defense is the reason the Giants are bad.
This is incorrect.
The Giants may have been eliminated by the Titans but the season ended at 1-7.
Shurmur and Eli have been talking about “close” and “competitive” games that we lost by single digits.
Now the defense may have blown the games to both the Colts and the cOwboys, but the truth is the Giants would be 7-9 and out of the playoffs with those wins anyway.
The fact of the matter is
The Giants started 0-2 and the defense allowed 20 pts in both games. The offense managed just 15 pts and 13 pts.
In fact the Giants scored 20 pts or less in 6 of the first 8 games, Hiw many games could possibly be won with those numbers? The season was over at that point.
Furthermore, the Giants suffered 5 single digit losses in this stretch and in 4 of them the opposition scored 20, 20, 23, 20. So was it the defense that caused those losses? Or was it the defense keeping them “close” and “competitive”?
The Giants were eliminated to the extent that they dumped off Eli Apple and Snacks and thus hurting the defense because the season was already over.
On top of it- in the 5 Giants win. The defense got 2 turnovers vs Texans, got 2 turnovers in San Fran, 4 turnovers including a defensive TD vs Tampa, 3 turnovers and a defensive TD vs the Bears, and 3 turnovers and a defensive TD vs the Redskins.
You are looking at multiple turnovers in 4 of the wins and and 3/4 turnovers and defensive TDs in 3 of the wins.
Eli Manning threw under 200 yards in 3 of the wins.
If the Titans game was a “single score game for a long time”as Shurmur said it was because of the defense and not our offense which got shutout.
The Giants this year were bad. The offense was bad and the defense became bad as the season wore in and long after it was over and pieces were removed from the team.
I’m sorry but this was not the story of a great offense being subjected to blown game after blown game by the defense. That may have happened in the last 2 meaningless games but it’s not the story of the season.
Dont say that too loud or you may blow DG's rant and new rallying cry
Your dead on. The offense sucked and played well against some sucky D's and really didn't move the ball at in the first 8 games.
While I will give some kudos that they improved with JBrown coming in, they aren't a juggernaut like the narrative is going. That's called changing the focus!
You can't blame the O and the D could you?
But..i do think its fair to say that the offense can be fixed or healed quicker than the D. Add a RT in FA or via the draft and get Paradais if possible or if we want that type of player OR they think Halapio (sounds like DG loves this guy) can come back and start. Then the offense is in good shape.
The D is another story. Assuming we keep Collins via one of the tag vehicles, we need a top pass rusher, a LB that can play and a Free Safety. this is a big assumption that Beal can come in and play CB with the expensive Jackrabbit
So both really have sucked it up. Its just the spinsters doing their job.
By the time the season starts we will have forgotten how bad the offense was....
Is there some sort of utility in trying to say the defense isn't at fault or that the offense is more at fault?
its also true that the offense rounded a corner in the second half and made real improvements
i can't see how the defense doesn't take responsibility for that
and the team line is that both the defense needs to make a stop at the end of the game and the offense needs to score
please tell me how the defense doesn't need major improvement talent wise
Exhibit B - Derrick Henry 100+ yards in first half.
bceagle05 : 7:19 pm : link : reply
the same way he fixed the OL this year. No seriously, he actually referenced his OL work today as something that should reassure us about his next mission.
Oh no, the GM promised to address the Defense! Let's tar and feather him because - - well, because we are fucking morons?
Kinda like how he traded the team's best player on defense and a top 10 pick that was still developing.
The defense rarely got a big stop at a critical point and they had chances nearly every week. That said if you expected a 3-4 defense to thrive with the LB's we sent to the field this year you should have your head examined.
Besides it's not about blame. Gettelman wasn't assigning blame. He was addressing the offseason talent hunt and where it needs to be focused. He's right. The majority of our Draft and Free Agent resources this offseason need to be allotted to the defensive side of the ball.
What about the second 8 games?
Well, that didn’t really happen outside a few games. Eli was Eli - bad game, mediocre game, mediocre game, really good game, mediocre game, bad game.
If your QB is that inconsistent it impacts both sides of the ball. Sure, the oline was a struggle but Eli didn’t help offset that with any improvisation. He needed a pocket that gave him greater time. And that isn’t easy with the parts we had.
Indeed, the D needs to be upgraded. But we didn’t have a 5 win season because they couldn’t carry their weight. The season was putrid because Eli was Eli and the D couldn’t pick him and the O up....
Eli, Odell, Solder are all making huge money. Barkley is already paid top 5 at RB.
Lets also look at the draft pick allotment. Most of the resources in the top rounds have been spent on the offense,
Our HC was brought in here as an offensive guru and calls the plays. His focus is there
The offense is where the Giants have made the investment and they should bear the weight.
I remember that early, thinking if I want to see players give up contain, I’ll go watch HS games.
I've read a ton of comments on our play, i've even typed a lot myself...this is the simplest, most accurate statement on our play
The offense certainly has as much culpability in missing the playoffs as the defense because of their wretched start. At least they got going in the right direction. The defense? Yeah...
At the same time Betcher lost Jpp, and had 2 3rd and a 5th rd pick who was unavailable most of the year due to a health issue.
This is a pivotal year for this defense. The scouts know what Betcher wants, the Giants have improved the OL and they hopefully have some resources to apply to upgrading the talent.
Quote:
.
What about the second 8 games?
What about them? The season was over by that point. After that, the only decent team we beat was Chicago, whose backup QB spotted us 7 on the first possession. And do you remember losing the last three games?
- Shutout at home against Tennessee. Our offense that everyone seems to be happy about managed 260 yards in the rain.
- Lose by a point in Indy. Manage 83 yards rushing on 29 carries. Can't run down the clock in the fourth quarter with a lead. Once the lead is gone, turn the ball over with a chance to win.
- Lose by a point at home to Dallas. Can't close it out despite being set up on the 48. 4 incompletions. Hey, let's not get the ball into Barkley's hands despite needing only about 25 yards and having 2 timeouts.
I don't know why the second half performance of the offense should be viewed as a positive. I know why some fans (and Shurmur and Gettleman) do...because there's nothing else positive to point to.
The offense still needs to be better - but you damn well better believe this defense does, too. They were not good this year and they absolutely were at fault for some of the losses.
We lost several games this season where we had a lead and a defensive stop would have, for all intents and purposes, ended the football game. The defense was not able to get those stops.
The defense gave up a losing score late in the 4th quarter when all of these games had us ahead or tied...
CAR
PHI (2nd game)
IND
DAL
The defense almost blew the Bucs and Bears games too because they couldn't even stop Chase Daniel.
The defense was fucking bad this year. I don't want to hear otherwise. This team will go nowhere with a defense like this. We need be better at rushing the passer, we need to be better stopping the run, and we need to be better across the board.
In too many games to count this year, the game could have been won with either a defensive stop or an offensive score. Good teams get those, and bad teams don’t. Guess which one the Giants were this season?
Trying to assign blame is pointless.
great English ...
As a matter of fact, I think we should franchise tag Curtis Riley.
It doesn't mean the offense isn't also awful.
The defense is terrible. The offense is terrible. The coaches aren't good enough to compensate for talent shortfalls. The GM did a bad job addressing talent shortfalls. That's where we are.
We're years past nuts with this team.
As a matter of fact, I think we should franchise tag Curtis Riley.
Won’t work. Can’t sign. Riley de milo never uses his arms.
As mentioned above, there's no one 'fault' - things are broken all over.
Quote:
.
We're years past nuts with this team.
eeyore!
During those 8 games, they lost despite scoring 31 vs CAR. They also scored 62 points in their last two games and still lost. Offense also watched the defense choke away a 14 point lead with 5 minutes to CHI and had to kick a FG in OT to bail them out.
This thread is stupid, there is plenty of blame to go around. On BOTH sides of the ball.
So Bettcher doesn't deserve any blame? You skip right ahead to Shurmur?
No, Britt - Pat Shurmur, an offensive HC, was supposed to fix a talentless/rudderless defense in one year. A defense that was awful one year ago and actually lost more talent than it acquired. Also Pat Shurmur's fault somehow - he's obviously the GM too.
The methodology regarding the way blame gets bizarrely assigned around here is just.... I can't figure it out.
It's the same thing we saw between 2015 and 2016. One historically horrendous defensive unit and one that was top 5 and the strength of the football team... same DC.
Does Ben McAdoo get credit for doing something with the defense that Tom Coughlin wasn't able to or did Jerry Reese go on a shopping spree to add an influx of defensive talent?
We cannot ignore the OL either, if Barkley gets no help, we're done. We cannot start Wheeler next year, we need a RT via the draft or FA. We need a C too. Halapio's ability is unknown. Greco and Pulley are back-ups at best. Brown was solid at RG, will they keep him?
Quote:
and having to sort it all out. It takes time.
No, Britt - Pat Shurmur, an offensive HC, was supposed to fix a talentless/rudderless defense in one year. A defense that was awful one year ago and actually lost more talent than it acquired. Also Pat Shurmur's fault somehow - he's obviously the GM too.
The methodology regarding the way blame gets bizarrely assigned around here is just.... I can't figure it out.
It's the same thing we saw between 2015 and 2016. One historically horrendous defensive unit and one that was top 5 and the strength of the football team... same DC.
Does Ben McAdoo get credit for doing something with the defense that Tom Coughlin wasn't able to or did Jerry Reese go on a shopping spree to add an influx of defensive talent?
10 years of bad drafting. 10 years! And we've only got like 5 players left! Including our last two first round, top ten picks (!) already gone, from the previous regime.
Yet that was supposed to be fixed in a single offseason.
What the fuck is the correlation to DG and PS and why should that reflect on them? And also, those same posters use the Browns as a team trending upwards while the Giants are a 5 win team in the doldrums.
Logic isn't really a strong suit - and certainly isn't correlated to the posting frequency of those guys.