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This narrative that it’s the defense fault is wrong

twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 7:09 pm
Recently we are seeing this rush to say the defense is the reason the Giants are bad.

This is incorrect.

The Giants may have been eliminated by the Titans but the season ended at 1-7.

Shurmur and Eli have been talking about “close” and “competitive” games that we lost by single digits.

Now the defense may have blown the games to both the Colts and the cOwboys, but the truth is the Giants would be 7-9 and out of the playoffs with those wins anyway.

The fact of the matter is

The Giants started 0-2 and the defense allowed 20 pts in both games. The offense managed just 15 pts and 13 pts.

In fact the Giants scored 20 pts or less in 6 of the first 8 games, Hiw many games could possibly be won with those numbers? The season was over at that point.

Furthermore, the Giants suffered 5 single digit losses in this stretch and in 4 of them the opposition scored 20, 20, 23, 20. So was it the defense that caused those losses? Or was it the defense keeping them “close” and “competitive”?

The Giants were eliminated to the extent that they dumped off Eli Apple and Snacks and thus hurting the defense because the season was already over.

On top of it- in the 5 Giants win. The defense got 2 turnovers vs Texans, got 2 turnovers in San Fran, 4 turnovers including a defensive TD vs Tampa, 3 turnovers and a defensive TD vs the Bears, and 3 turnovers and a defensive TD vs the Redskins.

You are looking at multiple turnovers in 4 of the wins and and 3/4 turnovers and defensive TDs in 3 of the wins.

Eli Manning threw under 200 yards in 3 of the wins.

If the Titans game was a “single score game for a long time”as Shurmur said it was because of the defense and not our offense which got shutout.

The Giants this year were bad. The offense was bad and the defense became bad as the season wore in and long after it was over and pieces were removed from the team.

I’m sorry but this was not the story of a great offense being subjected to blown game after blown game by the defense. That may have happened in the last 2 meaningless games but it’s not the story of the season.
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Through the first 8 games...  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 8:33 pm : link
The Giants were 31st in sacks
28th in causing turnovers
29th In plays per possession allowed.

Ummmm, that’s bad. But OP won’t mention them.
RE: When the defense  
BillKo : 1/2/2019 8:34 pm : link
In comment 14245012 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
was playing ok, the offense was bad. When the offense was playing ok, the defense was bad.


When a team blows offensively, you'll see opposing teams not push it because they know they can stop the other team. Teams tend to be conservative by nature, mostly.

When a team can put up some points, then the issue is forced and the defense can be exposed.

That's where the Giants ended up this year. Exposed on defense........
RE: RE: RE: Imagine being Shurmur and Gettleman and walking into this mess...  
arcarsenal : 1/2/2019 8:34 pm : link
In comment 14245128 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14245117 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 14245086 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


and having to sort it all out. It takes time.



No, Britt - Pat Shurmur, an offensive HC, was supposed to fix a talentless/rudderless defense in one year. A defense that was awful one year ago and actually lost more talent than it acquired. Also Pat Shurmur's fault somehow - he's obviously the GM too.

The methodology regarding the way blame gets bizarrely assigned around here is just.... I can't figure it out.

It's the same thing we saw between 2015 and 2016. One historically horrendous defensive unit and one that was top 5 and the strength of the football team... same DC.

Does Ben McAdoo get credit for doing something with the defense that Tom Coughlin wasn't able to or did Jerry Reese go on a shopping spree to add an influx of defensive talent?



10 years of bad drafting. 10 years! And we've only got like 5 players left! Including our last two first round, top ten picks (!) already gone, from the previous regime.

Yet that was supposed to be fixed in a single offseason.


The terrible drafting had a huge aggregate effect on this football team. You cannot have as many empty drafts as we did and expect the team to not show it down the road.

Everyone is tired of watching the Giants lose and finish at the bottom of the division.

I have no idea if Gettleman and Shurmur are the right guys for this. What I do know is that the jobs they undertook were going to need more than one year to complete.

Fans who just expected some sort of magic carpet ride back into relevancy here were kidding themselves.
dep..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 8:35 pm : link
what nobody is also pointing out is that this is the third day in a row that the OP has started a thread either calling for Eli to be replaced or to crap on the offense.

Not sure why people aren't recognizing that.
RE: The oddest thing..  
BillKo : 1/2/2019 8:37 pm : link
In comment 14245130 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is when you point out that Gettleman and Shurmur have only been here one year, the same posters use the argument that we've been bad for 6-7 years.

What the fuck is the correlation to DG and PS and why should that reflect on them? And also, those same posters use the Browns as a team trending upwards while the Giants are a 5 win team in the doldrums.

Logic isn't really a strong suit - and certainly isn't correlated to the posting frequency of those guys.


Said it on another thread, both guys don't give a crap about how the Giants have done since 2011.

They need to build the team their way............

Sorry I meant 5 of 6 games  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 8:38 pm : link
The eagles they forced a punt after the score was way out of hand.

Still terrible.
RE: dep..  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 8:39 pm : link
In comment 14245148 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
what nobody is also pointing out is that this is the third day in a row that the OP has started a thread either calling for Eli to be replaced or to crap on the offense.

Not sure why people aren't recognizing that.



What threads did I start?
I was actually getting worried about you Dep  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 8:40 pm : link
I couldn’t believe it took you this long to respond
Eh, both units were trash.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/2/2019 8:41 pm : link
And it was always going to take time, but that didn't stop some folks this past offseason from proclaiming the team would 'be back' this year, and it would be a 'revenge tour.' Perhaps, those folks will be more patient and logical the next few years going forward; especially since we are going to be ushering in a new era with a young QB sometime very soon.
DG mentioned  
WillVAB : 1/2/2019 8:41 pm : link
The defense needing playmakers and he’s exactly right. How many dropped INT’s this year? How many missed sack opportunities? Those are the kind of plays that turn games and the defense doesn’t have anyone to close games out.

This franchise used to have 3 elite rushers who could turn a game. Now they don’t have 1. DG has his work cut out for him this off-season.
RE: Defense didn’t force a punt  
Eman11 : 1/2/2019 8:41 pm : link
In comment 14245137 dep026 said:
Quote:
For 5 straight games in the 4th quarter....


Yikes. I knew they were blowing chunks but to see it in black and white like this just blows my mind.

If this doesn't scream the top priority to fix going forward I don't know what would.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/2/2019 8:45 pm : link
Imagine just having an elite, relentless edge rusher like Khalil Mack late in games. That one player alone may have been worth an additional 2 wins. We lost several games where literally one play made defensively could have been the difference. One sack... one INT... even one incomplete pass (Beasley)

We have to find a way to rush the passer. Huge, huge problem this year. We just could not get to QB's late in games.
RE: This is getting nuts.  
aka dbrny : 1/2/2019 8:46 pm : link
In comment 14245076 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.


I think we’re wayyy past the “getting” part.
RE: I was actually getting worried about you Dep  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 8:46 pm : link
In comment 14245164 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
I couldn’t believe it took you this long to respond


I was worried about you too.

It’s been a few days that you start a mind numbing dumbass thread that makes no sense.
The defense sucked.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/2/2019 8:49 pm : link
I hope Oliver is there @ 6.
Well, Eli’s Army...  
bw in dc : 1/2/2019 8:51 pm : link
have their major talking point for the off-season - it was the D’s fault, Eli did his part with Air Schurmur.
...  
Toth029 : 1/2/2019 8:54 pm : link
Vernon and Jenkins aren't making big dollars? Isn't Olgetree also making some decent money? There is more youth defensively but there's accountability that isn't being processed for some reason.

They need better talent, specifically at LB and S.
Good post  
greek13 : 1/2/2019 8:55 pm : link
Trades
Injuries
All after basically eliminated
Get an edge rusher a safety and cb
Will be very strong group
RE: Well, Eli’s Army...  
arcarsenal : 1/2/2019 8:55 pm : link
In comment 14245187 bw in dc said:
Quote:
have their major talking point for the off-season - it was the D’s fault, Eli did his part with Air Schurmur.


Oh, give me a break...

Virtually everyone disagreeing with the OP is simply saying the defense was terrible too. The idea that they're blameless is batshit.

I'll never understand why it's so hard for people here to see two things at once. It's like you can't take a position on anything unless you're completely unwilling to even consider the other side of it or anything that doesn't fit the same narrative.

We all know the offense needs more work. It doesn't mean the defense didn't suck or contribute to losses. Anyone who believes that obviously didn't watch much of this football team.

The Raiders were the only team that accumulated fewer sacks than NYG did this year. We could not get to QB's in crunch time and it let them march right down the field on us for game-changing scores.
The defense got continually worse - the offense continually improved  
PatersonPlank : 1/2/2019 8:58 pm : link
That is the fact, and that is what Dave G was talking about
RE: The defense got continually worse - the offense continually improved  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 9:00 pm : link
In comment 14245198 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
That is the fact, and that is what Dave G was talking about


Did the Titans game not happen?
You morons are exhuasting  
Jimmy Googs : 1/2/2019 9:02 pm : link
with which side is more to blame...real difficult to see those underlying agendas.

I guess this is what happens when Quinn finally puts together a decent Special Teams unit...

RE: RE: The defense got continually worse - the offense continually improved  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 9:02 pm : link
In comment 14245202 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14245198 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


That is the fact, and that is what Dave G was talking about



Did the Titans game not happen?


Wow 1 bad game in a downpour. The other 7 games to end the year. 30 PPG. Great job as usual numbnuts.
This offseason & draft needs to be trench heavy.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/2/2019 9:03 pm : link
If we're going to make noise in '19.
RE: RE: The defense got continually worse - the offense continually improved  
arcarsenal : 1/2/2019 9:04 pm : link
In comment 14245202 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14245198 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


That is the fact, and that is what Dave G was talking about



Did the Titans game not happen?


It happened. It rained all day, we were without our best WR, and the defense got steamrolled by Derrick Henry all day long.
RE: You morons are exhuasting  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 9:06 pm : link
In comment 14245203 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
with which side is more to blame...real difficult to see those underlying agendas.

I guess this is what happens when Quinn finally puts together a decent Special Teams unit...


Okay, finally, that one was actually funny.
Finally??  
Jimmy Googs : 1/2/2019 9:07 pm : link
thanks for the nice compliment...
Yes, you're welcome.  
Britt in VA : 1/2/2019 9:09 pm : link
.
RE: Well, Eli’s Army...  
Bill L : 1/2/2019 9:11 pm : link
In comment 14245187 bw in dc said:
Quote:
have their major talking point for the off-season - it was the D’s fault, Eli did his part with Air Schurmur.

You’ve got schtick down, I’ll give you credit for that.

Objectively, you *could* if you choose acknowledge that the defense was putrid while still continuing to carp about the QB. They’re not mutually exclusive perspectives.
For Terps,  
Bill L : 1/2/2019 9:14 pm : link
I’m missing the point you made about how the Bears playing a backup QB made our offense play very well. Can you explain? Was their QB also responsible for tackling Barkley?
RE: Yes, you're welcome.  
Jimmy Googs : 1/2/2019 9:15 pm : link
In comment 14245224 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.


You would laugh more if we changed roles...
Did the defense NOT get 3-4 turnovers and a defensive TD in each  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 9:15 pm : link
Of Tampa Bay, Washington and Chicago games?

Did that not happen?

I’d seriously have to wonder how an offense could not score when that is the case?
I think everyone here is over analyzing the whole situation...  
EricJ : 1/2/2019 9:15 pm : link
offense vs defense, etc...

The truth is that this is simply a bad team right now. We have a superstar RB, a very good diva WR when he stays on the field... and then a group of role players.

The locker room and attitude has been corrected since last year and THAT is what enabled us to win 5 games this year.

This is not on the defense or the offense. The truth is that neither played well enough this year.
RE: Did the defense NOT get 3-4 turnovers and a defensive TD in each  
BigBlueShock : 1/2/2019 9:29 pm : link
In comment 14245237 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Of Tampa Bay, Washington and Chicago games?

Did that not happen?

I’d seriously have to wonder how an offense could not score when that is the case?

You might want to go look at the offensive production in those games...
RE: For Terps,  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 9:32 pm : link
In comment 14245234 Bill L said:
Quote:
I’m missing the point you made about how the Bears playing a backup QB made our offense play very well. Can you explain? Was their QB also responsible for tackling Barkley?


Maybe it had to do with the 3 turnovers he had? Including the pick 6.

The Giants had a drive in that game that lost yards and still scored points because of the Bears turnover.

They had another drive for a total of 18 yards and got points.

Daniels took 5 sacks and had 4 fumbles. Those kill drives and gave great field position which resulted in points.

The Giants offense had 3 real drives in that game. 75 yds, 60 yds and 49 yards for 17 pts.

The rest were a defensive TD, 18 yard FG drive and a drive for -8 yds for a FG.

The OP  
Les in TO : 1/2/2019 9:34 pm : link
Is 100% right. The defense was far from perfect and not good enough to dominate opponents - but they kept the Giants close when the season mattered and the offense was not putting points on the board. Then the trades and injuries piled up and we were playing a lot of guys who won’t be in the league next year.
RE: The OP  
BigBlueShock : 1/2/2019 9:53 pm : link
In comment 14245262 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Is 100% right. The defense was far from perfect and not good enough to dominate opponents - but they kept the Giants close when the season mattered and the offense was not putting points on the board. Then the trades and injuries piled up and we were playing a lot of guys who won’t be in the league next year.

There are three certainties in life. Death, taxes, and Les in TO being on the wrong side of right.

For those of you that took his stance prior, now is the time to backtrack...
You know when  
dep026 : 1/2/2019 9:53 pm : link
I start a post that talks about offense and defense... all of BBI finest claim how it’s secretley about Eli Manning.

Yet when the usual suspects start and post a thread like this that is essentially blaming Eli.... those people are mysteriously not here.

Gotta love BBI. Shitty posters, shitty threads.
It's a team sport  
ZogZerg : 1/2/2019 10:24 pm : link
The whole team needs help.
The defense stunk up the joint too.  
Giant John : 1/2/2019 10:33 pm : link
C’mon.
If DG can add  
section125 : 1/2/2019 10:38 pm : link
a couple oline, they should be fine.

But the defense needs a fleet enema.

If DG can trade Go Terps, I'd appreciate that too.
RE: RE: Well, Eli’s Army...  
bw in dc : 1/2/2019 10:39 pm : link
In comment 14245231 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14245187 bw in dc said:


Quote:


have their major talking point for the off-season - it was the D’s fault, Eli did his part with Air Schurmur.


You’ve got schtick down, I’ll give you credit for that.

Objectively, you *could* if you choose acknowledge that the defense was putrid while still continuing to carp about the QB. They’re not mutually exclusive perspectives.


Well, if you read my first post, you’ll see I acknowledge that both sides of the ball need upgrades.
This is tangential, but it occured to me.....  
WideRight : 1/2/2019 10:45 pm : link
The defense played better early in the season when Vernon was hurt.

And the offense played better later in the season, when OBJ was hurt.

Of courses coincidences like that can occur, but it certainly indicates that this team is not exactly what we think it is. It doesn't have a reliable good side.
RE: Imagine being Shurmur and Gettleman and walking into this mess...  
giantstock : 1/2/2019 11:12 pm : link
In comment 14245086 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
and having to sort it all out. It takes time.


ANd yet as DG said to start the season -- in other words when he came inhe felt it shouldn't take time--


I copied the below quote from BrettNYG10 on the thread called “Remember When Everyone Said Defer to DG Because He's a GM.”

He posted the following quote that looks like came from DG:


“I've seen someone told one of the reporters that I'm in a tear-down," Gettleman said. at the time "We're not spending $62 million on Nate Solder or signing Patrick Omameh and we're not trading for Alec Ogletree if we're in a tear-down. I'm doing that. We've evaluated the roster. We've developed a plan moving forward. It's about winning now. Who wants to lose? I don't."

The defense stinks  
Dave in PA : 1/2/2019 11:15 pm : link
They may have been a bit better this year than they’ve been at any point beyond 2012, except 2016, but that’s a very low bar to hurdle. Linebackers are lousy, no free safety to speak of, no god damn pass rush AT ALL. There is nothing this defense does well. Occasionally they play respectably for a few quarters in a row. Rarely 4 consecutive on the same day.
Case of two trains going in opposite directions....  
Doomster : 1/2/2019 11:20 pm : link
The offense started out bad, and got better as the season progressed......

The defense did just the opposite....
RE: It's absolute crazy town around here.  
montanagiant : 1/2/2019 11:44 pm : link
In comment 14245134 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
the inmates have truly taken over the asylum.

Giants.com 2.0
It's not either/or  
jcp56 : 1/3/2019 12:12 am : link
both (and special teams) had hands in the losses. In fact, I think we would have won a few early games with Coleman and Q. Henderson as our returners.

You also conveniently forgot to note the defense did well against backup and even third string QBs such as Mark Sanchize.
RE: RE: It's absolute crazy town around here.  
pa_giant_fan : 1/3/2019 6:20 am : link
In comment 14245399 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14245134 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


the inmates have truly taken over the asylum.


Giants.com 2.0

+100000000000000


RE: You know when  
Les in TO : 1/3/2019 6:39 am : link
In comment 14245294 dep026 said:
Quote:
I start a post that talks about offense and defense... all of BBI finest claim how it’s secretley about Eli Manning.

Yet when the usual suspects start and post a thread like this that is essentially blaming Eli.... those people are mysteriously not here.

Gotta love BBI. Shitty posters, shitty threads.
it’s amusing that someone who complains religiously about BBI being crappy is here 24/7. There are other places both online and in the real world where you can spend your time if you feel you are above this website
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