Recently we are seeing this rush to say the defense is the reason the Giants are bad.
This is incorrect.
The Giants may have been eliminated by the Titans but the season ended at 1-7.
Shurmur and Eli have been talking about “close” and “competitive” games that we lost by single digits.
Now the defense may have blown the games to both the Colts and the cOwboys, but the truth is the Giants would be 7-9 and out of the playoffs with those wins anyway.
The fact of the matter is
The Giants started 0-2 and the defense allowed 20 pts in both games. The offense managed just 15 pts and 13 pts.
In fact the Giants scored 20 pts or less in 6 of the first 8 games, Hiw many games could possibly be won with those numbers? The season was over at that point.
Furthermore, the Giants suffered 5 single digit losses in this stretch and in 4 of them the opposition scored 20, 20, 23, 20. So was it the defense that caused those losses? Or was it the defense keeping them “close” and “competitive”?
The Giants were eliminated to the extent that they dumped off Eli Apple and Snacks and thus hurting the defense because the season was already over.
On top of it- in the 5 Giants win. The defense got 2 turnovers vs Texans, got 2 turnovers in San Fran, 4 turnovers including a defensive TD vs Tampa, 3 turnovers and a defensive TD vs the Bears, and 3 turnovers and a defensive TD vs the Redskins.
You are looking at multiple turnovers in 4 of the wins and and 3/4 turnovers and defensive TDs in 3 of the wins.
Eli Manning threw under 200 yards in 3 of the wins.
If the Titans game was a “single score game for a long time”as Shurmur said it was because of the defense and not our offense which got shutout.
The Giants this year were bad. The offense was bad and the defense became bad as the season wore in and long after it was over and pieces were removed from the team.
I’m sorry but this was not the story of a great offense being subjected to blown game after blown game by the defense. That may have happened in the last 2 meaningless games but it’s not the story of the season.
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I start a post that talks about offense and defense... all of BBI finest claim how it’s secretley about Eli Manning.
Yet when the usual suspects start and post a thread like this that is essentially blaming Eli.... those people are mysteriously not here.
Gotta love BBI. Shitty posters, shitty threads.
it’s amusing that someone who complains religiously about BBI being crappy is here 24/7. There are other places both online and in the real world where you can spend your time if you feel you are above this website
Obviously he doesn't feel that way. His statement juts illustrated who he is. He has a POV and if you challenge him in any way he'll reply by misrepresenting and lying or do whatever to make himself feel better. He;s the ultimate fanatic fan that gets easily offended and when he does he'll lie/misrepresent the people that have offended him.
There's a lot of posters like that.
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You would laugh more if we changed roles...
Yeah, at the company I keep.
Then the defense got hurt and lost a few starters, which is kind of important.
Also, we knew in September they didn't have a pass rusher. It can't be a complaint now. THEY knew in September they didn't have a pass rush. It's why Connor Barwin's corpse got a uniform this year.
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In comment 14245294 dep026 said:
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I start a post that talks about offense and defense... all of BBI finest claim how it’s secretley about Eli Manning.
Yet when the usual suspects start and post a thread like this that is essentially blaming Eli.... those people are mysteriously not here.
Gotta love BBI. Shitty posters, shitty threads.
it’s amusing that someone who complains religiously about BBI being crappy is here 24/7. There are other places both online and in the real world where you can spend your time if you feel you are above this website
Obviously he doesn't feel that way. His statement juts illustrated who he is. He has a POV and if you challenge him in any way he'll reply by misrepresenting and lying or do whatever to make himself feel better. He;s the ultimate fanatic fan that gets easily offended and when he does he'll lie/misrepresent the people that have offended him.
There's a lot of posters like that.
Like you??? Who’s posting all week has been 100% BS. Please tell us again how all of us are close minded when it comes to wanting a new QB. Was that a lie or just you being wrong?
I quoted everything you said and wrote in my responses. Sorry it doesn’t fit your agenda/narrative.
The defense lacked talent and depth to begin with. Then they traded away two starters who were among their better players in Snacks and Apple. OV missed some games, Collins went on IR, Ogletree missed three game. After Collins was IRed, I honestly don't recognize any of the names in the secondary outside of JackRabbit. They had a couple of kids still improving anchoring the D-line.
Like 99% of the arguments around here, this who's to blame shit feels a lot like another way of resurfacing the QB argument in another form.
Games against Dallas, Atlanta, New Orleans and the first Redskins game come to mind. The offense couldn't do jack shit, which created the feeling that any deficit was insurmountable.
You know, the part of the season before the Giants were essentially eliminated. I'm not here to tell you the defense didn't fall apart, but let's not forget how poorly the offense played in earning a 1-7 record. The whole team sucked at different times. Recency bias aside, that's a fact.
Dallas: 14 plays 82 yards - TD
Houston: 4 plays 53 yards - INT (good one by the defense)
7 plays 77 yards - TD
12 plays 85 yards - TD (garbage time TD)
Saints: 14 plays 74 yards - TD
6 plays 83 yards - TD
Panthers: 9 plays 53 yards - TD
2 plays INT - Good job by defense
12 plays 59 yards - TD
7 plays 30 yards - FG
Falcons: 9 plays 65 yards - TD
8 plays 47 yards - FG
So in those 5 games where the key was still in hand going into the 4th. We went 1-4. The results...
12 drives
104 plays
60 yards per drive
8 TDs
2 FGs
2 INTs
Good defense.... Says who?
Games against Dallas, Atlanta, New Orleans and the first Redskins game come to mind. The offense couldn't do jack shit, which created the feeling that any deficit was insurmountable.
You know, the part of the season before the Giants were essentially eliminated. I'm not here to tell you the defense didn't fall apart, but let's not forget how poorly the offense played in earning a 1-7 record. The whole team sucked at different times. Recency bias aside, that's a fact.
Also the defense went bad once the season was essentially over and our GM traded away its best player and another starter and was looking to move the other CB and our SS as well.. I can't see a defense playing well when all this has happened.. Yes the offense was better by the end of the season.. and the defense was worse.. but its only because you traded away its best player.. its second best player got injured..
Also overall Giants have just not spent the kind of resources on Defense as they have on offense.. Most high picks are on offensive side over the past 5 years.. Our QB and WR are 2 of the highest paid players.. Besides when your offense can't move a yard in the final drive against Dallas and not get anything going on the final drive in Indy.. it tells me offense is still broken.. Please do not ignore the offense.. it still needs fixing.. D also needs fixing since we intentionally made additional holes on that side of the ball..
But here's the rub - so many posters want to pigeon hole things into a black/white deal. when it is pointed out that the offensive production improved, it isn't just that it was a positive sign to end the year - it is portrayed that this signifies the defense sucked, the offense is great and Eli Manning will be the QB for years to come. It is frustrating as hell.
You even have offshoots of this where posters who have been serially down on the team call out posters saying anything positive as being "happy" with the season.
Nobody is happy, the TEAM is bad and most fans are frustrated.
Why those three points derail threads is the true question to get at.
Dallas: 14 plays 82 yards - TD
Houston: 4 plays 53 yards - INT (good one by the defense)
7 plays 77 yards - TD
12 plays 85 yards - TD (garbage time TD)
Saints: 14 plays 74 yards - TD
6 plays 83 yards - TD
Panthers: 9 plays 53 yards - TD
2 plays INT - Good job by defense
12 plays 59 yards - TD
7 plays 30 yards - FG
Falcons: 9 plays 65 yards - TD
8 plays 47 yards - FG
So in those 5 games where the key was still in hand going into the 4th. We went 1-4. The results...
12 drives
104 plays
60 yards per drive
8 TDs
2 FGs
2 INTs
Good defense.... Says who?
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from Dallas to Atlanta..... only the Philly game did we force a punt in the 4th. And we were down 34-13 in that game so they literally stopped trying. The other games:
Dallas: 14 plays 82 yards - TD
Houston: 4 plays 53 yards - INT (good one by the defense)
7 plays 77 yards - TD
12 plays 85 yards - TD (garbage time TD)
Saints: 14 plays 74 yards - TD
6 plays 83 yards - TD
Panthers: 9 plays 53 yards - TD
2 plays INT - Good job by defense
12 plays 59 yards - TD
7 plays 30 yards - FG
Falcons: 9 plays 65 yards - TD
8 plays 47 yards - FG
So in those 5 games where the key was still in hand going into the 4th. We went 1-4. The results...
12 drives
104 plays
60 yards per drive
8 TDs
2 FGs
2 INTs
Good defense.... Says who?
the defense was worn out in the 4th ; they didn’t have a break because the offense could not sustain drives. Again no one is saying the defense was excellent but they kept us in many games
What was the excuse last Sunday when the offense took the lead late in the game.
Didnt the offense score 17 points in the 4th quarter? 17!!!!!
the defense was worn out in the 4th ; they didn’t have a break because the offense could not sustain drives. Again no one is saying the defense was excellent but they kept us in many games
False. Through the first 8 games, the Giants had a lower TOP than the oppostition by less than a minute. Including many of those games where they had the ball more through 3 quarters. Being worn out is not an excuse. Good try though.
Also the defense went bad once the season was essentially over and our GM traded away its best player and another starter and was looking to move the other CB and our SS as well.. I can't see a defense playing well when all this has happened.. Yes the offense was better by the end of the season.. and the defense was worse.. but its only because you traded away its best player.. its second best player got injured..
Also overall Giants have just not spent the kind of resources on Defense as they have on offense.. Most high picks are on offensive side over the past 5 years.. Our QB and WR are 2 of the highest paid players.. Besides when your offense can't move a yard in the final drive against Dallas and not get anything going on the final drive in Indy.. it tells me offense is still broken.. Please do not ignore the offense.. it still needs fixing.. D also needs fixing since we intentionally made additional holes on that side of the ball..
Excellent point about the liquidation sale that took place on the D once it was determined the season was likely over. That definitely would impact morale.
They are both a problem, that will take years to fix.
Dallas: 14 plays 82 yards - TD
Houston: 4 plays 53 yards - INT (good one by the defense)
7 plays 77 yards - TD
12 plays 85 yards - TD (garbage time TD)
Saints: 14 plays 74 yards - TD
6 plays 83 yards - TD
Panthers: 9 plays 53 yards - TD
2 plays INT - Good job by defense
12 plays 59 yards - TD
7 plays 30 yards - FG
Falcons: 9 plays 65 yards - TD
8 plays 47 yards - FG
So in those 5 games where the key was still in hand going into the 4th. We went 1-4. The results...
12 drives
104 plays
60 yards per drive
8 TDs
2 FGs
2 INTs
Good defense.... Says who?
So we don't have a good defense.. thats not news to anyone here.. By the same token.. any decent offense wins that game against dallas by moving the ball 25 yards against the defense and getting the field goal.. Almost the same thing in Indy.. An average offense in 2018 is expected to do those things.. Ours still doesn't.. so don't get so hyped up about our offense it still below average..
They are both a problem, that will take years to fix.
Eli had 2 this year. And would have had two more if the defense didnt collapse against Carolina and Dallas.
I dunno.. I saw business decisions being made by the Giants defense in the second half of the season.. Once you let the news out that everyone was available for trade including home grown Collins.. players realize whats happening..
Dak has 9
Wentz and Foles combined for 7
Shoot - the Redskins duo of "Big Game Choke Artist" Kirk Cousins had 4 and Josh Johnson had 1 in 3 games for Washington.
The Giants defense could not get pressure, AND they lost 11 games. Is it the only problem? Certainly not. Is it a huge and significant problem worth addressing? Hell yes.
Dak has 9
Wentz and Foles combined for 7
Shoot - the Redskins duo of "Big Game Choke Artist" Kirk Cousins had 4 and Josh Johnson had 1 in 3 games for Washington.
How many would he have in the past three years if the defense hadn't given up walk off scores as time expired is probably a relevant question. Because there have been more than a few.
Dak has 9
Wentz and Foles combined for 7
Shoot - the Redskins duo of "Big Game Choke Artist" Kirk Cousins had 4 and Josh Johnson had 1 in 3 games for Washington.
When you play the 8-24 Giants four times in that span...
So we don't have a good defense.. thats not news to anyone here.. By the same token.. any decent offense wins that game against dallas by moving the ball 25 yards against the defense and getting the field goal.. Almost the same thing in Indy.. An average offense in 2018 is expected to do those things.. Ours still doesn't.. so don't get so hyped up about our offense it still below average..
The Giants scored 17 points in the 4th quarter. Took the lead 3 different times. Are we really getting on them for failing ONE TIME!!!
It's a chicken and egg debate.
Last Sunday's game against the Cowboys is a perfect example of how both are the problem.
The Giants defense couldn't stop some no name TE to preserve a win and then Eli couldn't get the offense 30 yards with a minute left (and a TO) for a potential game winning FG.
They both suck at this point and I'm tired of watching both knowing what the final outcome is going to be.
Dak has 9
Wentz and Foles combined for 7
Shoot - the Redskins duo of "Big Game Choke Artist" Kirk Cousins had 4 and Josh Johnson had 1 in 3 games for Washington.
How many did the defenses blow? And we are really using the 2017 team who was decimated by injuries on both sides of the ball.
The defense gave up the lead 6 times on final drives this year. SIX TIMES!!!!
It's a chicken and egg debate.
Last Sunday's game against the Cowboys is a perfect example of how both are the problem.
The Giants defense couldn't stop some no name TE to preserve a win and then Eli couldn't get the offense 30 yards with a minute left (and a TO) for a potential game winning FG.
They both suck at this point and I'm tired of watching both knowing what the final outcome is going to be.
Yes, it is a team game and on a losing team everybody is to blame.
I just don't understand threads like these trying to absolve what everybody knows to be a sh-tty defense.
It's weird.
They are both a problem, that will take years to fix.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.
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the Giants TOP was higher in 3 of the 5 games. Worn out? Good try Les. You may get one right sooner or later.
the Giants were 29th in time of possession 25th in third down conversion percentage in the nfl and 14th in pints. The offense did not sustain drives consistently this season. The defense was not good enough to win games on their own like they did throughout the 2007 and 2011 playoffs or more recently 2016
What about the first 8 games in which I mentioned? Where the TOP was much different? What about the 3 games in the 5 game stretch where they couldnt get off the field when they had the ball longer than their opponents?
The defense sucked at the end of the year.... we all know this. But the the fact is they sucked at the beginning too.
The defense won playoff games on their own?
The fucking lengths one will go combined with a subpar Canadian education system gives us nuggets of shit like this....
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.
Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.
Whats eye scratching is people are still blaming the offense for the last two games. Thats where the problem lies with assessing blame.
Can we blame the offense for a no show against Jax, Dallas first time, Washington, and Atlanta. Absolutely. No one is innocent in those games.
But the narratives that Eli cant lead us from behind (false.)
The narrative that the offense failed us in the last two games (false)
The narrative that the defense was worn down early (false)
We have to separate fantasy from reality at some point.
Loyal enough to get banned and spend the better part of a year supposedly claiming to not want to come back. That's how you know it's true loyalty, right?
I agree though. I also wish some posters would either grow up or leave. I'll settle for either too.
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It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.
Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.
When they're replying within a minute of the OP, is there even a difference anymore? Sitting on the main page and hitting refresh so they can immediately jump into a new thread isn't any less frightening than repeatedly starting those new threads, IMO.
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What can I say. I think I speak for a lot of posters who wish you and your kind either grow up or leave. I’ll settle for either.
Loyal enough to get banned and spend the better part of a year supposedly claiming to not want to come back. That's how you know it's true loyalty, right?
I agree though. I also wish some posters would either grow up or leave. I'll settle for either too.
You respond to me a lot but never talk about the post. Kind of creepy dude. I mean you did that on BBH and ratted on me (as per Rich by the way, so you can claim I'm making something up again...)
Its all good. I see you are on your cmputer refreshing the page to see what I post. I am glad I serve a purpose for you.
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In comment 14245695 Dnew15 said:
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It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.
Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.
When they're replying within a minute of the OP, is there even a difference anymore? Sitting on the main page and hitting refresh so they can immediately jump into a new thread isn't any less frightening than repeatedly starting those new threads, IMO.
Is that what happened on this thread?
Of course not britt. He just is responding to me when I didnt first post until there were 50 replies. Just more nonsense from him.
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In comment 14245461 dep026 said:
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What can I say. I think I speak for a lot of posters who wish you and your kind either grow up or leave. I’ll settle for either.
Loyal enough to get banned and spend the better part of a year supposedly claiming to not want to come back. That's how you know it's true loyalty, right?
I agree though. I also wish some posters would either grow up or leave. I'll settle for either too.
You respond to me a lot but never talk about the post. Kind of creepy dude. I mean you did that on BBH and ratted on me (as per Rich by the way, so you can claim I'm making something up again...)
Its all good. I see you are on your cmputer refreshing the page to see what I post. I am glad I serve a purpose for you.
I just wanted to make sure you serve some purpose for somebody.
That said, my last post on BBH was over a decade ago and I'm not sure what I would have "ratted" on you for - were you up to some sort of nefarious acts? Do you have any idea how batshit insane it is that you continue to bring up stuff from BBH and BBWC from 15 years ago? It's really creepy.
Not that you care for any advice from me, so ignore it if you'd prefer, but get out of the house. Go make some friends. Do literally anything other than worrying about a completely different message board in a completely different decade.
I really could not care less what you think about me. you are wrong and have selective vision because I post on different topics. I happen to think you are a toxic angry and confrontational person and this site was much better when you were banned.
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In comment 14245701 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 14245695 Dnew15 said:
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It's also weird that people want to absolve Eli in the same fashion.
Dep - I know where you stand on Eli and I respect that. I'm not going to try and convince you that this is both an Eli AND a defense problem. Neither of them bail the other out and yes I'm using 2017 because it's not a new problem.
Here's the question, though... Are people starting thread after thread absolving Eli, or are they responding to threads that are slamming him. That's the question.
When they're replying within a minute of the OP, is there even a difference anymore? Sitting on the main page and hitting refresh so they can immediately jump into a new thread isn't any less frightening than repeatedly starting those new threads, IMO.
Is that what happened on this thread?
Nope. Should I link the threads where it has?
But again, you dont need to worry about me. I have a great job. I coach. I have two wonderful daughters who mean the world to me and make the Giants seasons of recent years seem meaningless.
You, OTOH, I hope you find what you need to fill the void in your life. If its stalking me around liek you have always done.... then so be it. Take care.