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Gettleman and Eli Manning situation.

Josiah31 : 1/2/2019 8:13 pm
I know thereís a ton of posts about Eli. I havenít seen any comments with this way of thinking. Anyone else think Gettleman is playing the media? Eli isnít going anywhere. Thereís no way that him and Shurmur are not on the same page. I also donít buy that he needs to look at film before evaluating Eli. I think heís just trying to get other GMís that may want a QB to think we are drafting a QB so they will possibly trade up and select a player we never wanted in the first place. To me itís so obvious. He pretty much said Eli played well once the OLine was settled. Talked about how we scored points, just didnít defend. Iím pretty convinced we do not go QB this draft though.
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There are 4 possibilites. Pick your favorite  
HomerJones45 : 1/3/2019 10:49 am : link
A) The Les-Terps-bw plan
Cut Manning. Go get a fill-in for a year or two for a couple of million and either draft a qb or hope to find the next Kerry Collins. Use the savings to buy a player or two.

B. The mid-level plan
Pay Manning his roster bonus so he is on the roster at the draft. Try and get a qb in the first round and make a trade for Manning. If not, Manning plays out his contract. If so, cut Manning post June 1 for some cap relief.

C. The Contract plan
Manning plays out his contract. A raft of qb's are brought in to see if there are any possibilities for the year after in the hopes of finding a Kerry Collins.

D. The cap relief plan
Extend Manning by paying his $17 mill up front and add a couple of years at a modest dollar amount. Cap relief comes in the form of averaging over the extended term. Use cap relief to sign some players.

Tanney and Lauletta are expendable in all of these scenarios.
anything but D  
LG in NYC : 1/3/2019 11:23 am : link
but more likely A or B.

It doesn't appear there is a franchise level QB in this year's draft (at least not an obvious one), so you are either waiting until 2020... still think Kyle could be the future... or you are going to get a FA QB that you think can be the answer medium/long term.

But I do not see us drafting a QB in Rd 1 this draft.
i meant more likely  
LG in NYC : 1/3/2019 11:24 am : link
A or C
This is hysterically funny that a person living in america would write  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2019 11:32 am : link
this.

'Meanwhile, you re one of the richest human beings on earth today. You clearly do not need a penny more from the NY Giants and money is only a matter of pride, not necessity, for you at this point in life. In that regard, we expect you to work with me to adjust your salary so it is more cap friendly to enable us to improve the quality of the rest of the team. '

I'd love to see your reaction if your employer hit you with something like this. Who doesn't love the boss that tells you what salary you 'need'.
RE: This is hysterically funny that a person living in america would write  
Britt in VA : 1/3/2019 11:43 am : link
In comment 14245899 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
this.

'Meanwhile, you re one of the richest human beings on earth today. You clearly do not need a penny more from the NY Giants and money is only a matter of pride, not necessity, for you at this point in life. In that regard, we expect you to work with me to adjust your salary so it is more cap friendly to enable us to improve the quality of the rest of the team. '

I'd love to see your reaction if your employer hit you with something like this. Who doesn't love the boss that tells you what salary you 'need'.


That's what I'm talking about lately.

People are living in reality when it comes to talking about the team. That's pure fantasy land.
Not only would I write it ... but that's the exact position I'd take  
baadbill : 1/3/2019 12:07 pm : link
with Manning... the point being... your time is up here unless you are willing to adjust your compensation to our needs ... and the fact is, he doesn't need the money ... any compensation he gets, he won't even notice it... his annual compensation to him would be the like paying you $10 - that is how much money he has already.
Furthermore, Manning is probably in a position where he either  
baadbill : 1/3/2019 12:09 pm : link
accepts the Giants terms to play football or he retires... the odds of his starting for another team probably are remote.
RE: Not only would I write it ... but that's the exact position I'd take  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2019 12:18 pm : link
In comment 14245958 baadbill said:
Quote:
with Manning... the point being... your time is up here unless you are willing to adjust your compensation to our needs ... and the fact is, he doesn't need the money ... any compensation he gets, he won't even notice it... his annual compensation to him would be the like paying you $10 - that is how much money he has already.


I would guess that you believing that this is a solid form of negotiation is why you likely dont have a career in contracts.

"C'mon, you dont need all that money' gets you laughed out of the room.
hmmm  
giantfan2000 : 1/3/2019 12:34 pm : link
Quote:
"C'mon, you dont need all that money' gets you laughed out of the room.



yes that would get your laughed out of the room what Gettleman will say is

"Eli you are not WORTH the money anymore".
which is very different statement and will stop Eli's laughter

There's a reason..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 12:37 pm : link
the Players Association has put protections in place to keep straight pay cuts from happening.

It is because the salary leverage is predominantly with the team. Players are only guaranteed their guaranteed money and salary in future year's is on paper only.

those protections aren't put in place for the Eli Mannings of the world, they are put in place fro the average player, but everyone is afforded those protections.

it is most definitely a laughable position to take
If you've ever had to negotiate anything  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2019 12:43 pm : link
I can promise you that no agent is going to take you seriously if your points are "You don't need all that money" or "you're not worth ___"
RE: There are 4 possibilites. Pick your favorite  
bw in dc : 1/3/2019 12:46 pm : link
In comment 14245822 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
A) The Les-Terps-bw plan
Cut Manning. Go get a fill-in for a year or two for a couple of million and either draft a qb or hope to find the next Kerry Collins. Use the savings to buy a player or two.

B. The mid-level plan
Pay Manning his roster bonus so he is on the roster at the draft. Try and get a qb in the first round and make a trade for Manning. If not, Manning plays out his contract. If so, cut Manning post June 1 for some cap relief.

C. The Contract plan
Manning plays out his contract. A raft of qb's are brought in to see if there are any possibilities for the year after in the hopes of finding a Kerry Collins.

D. The cap relief plan
Extend Manning by paying his $17 mill up front and add a couple of years at a modest dollar amount. Cap relief comes in the form of averaging over the extended term. Use cap relief to sign some players.

Tanney and Lauletta are expendable in all of these scenarios.


I would say A could go two ways for me. I could live with the way you described it, but would personally prefer to draft a guy - this year, or even try Lauletta - so that player could immediately get the critical experience the position requires.

I've become less and less interested in trying to set-up these clean transition plans. Get in there, get live reps, take the lumps, and learn from real mistakes.
Here's the deal...  
baadbill : 1/3/2019 12:51 pm : link
Facts:
(1) DG & the Giants do not need Eli Manning in 2019.
(2) DG might be interested in Eli Manning in 2019 only if:
(a) Manning reduced his compensation to an extent that it made a major impact on cap space
(b) Manning convinced DG he was chomping at the bit for one thing - a shot at a 3rd Lombardi.

(3) $23 million dollars means zero to Manning's net worth. Not only is it no life changing money to him ... it is literally not noticeable to his overall net worth... it is chump change.

(4) Blue Lou asked me how much money would I expect Manning to agree as a reduction to his compensation package. DG undoubtedly can answer that - I cannot because I don't know about cap space. But I do know #3 above is true - that haggling with Manning about money when Manning doesn't give one shit about the money - only tells me Manning isn't serious about any burning desire to take one last shot at the SB - because if he was, he would tell me (DG) that the Giants can have all the reduction they need to help on the cap.

As a professional negotiator, when you hold all the cards, you play them and there is zero reason to bluff. You simply lay out your cards and tell the other side it is "take it or leave it" - and you do that because you honestly don't give a rats ass if they don't take it.

Lastly, I am in no way, shape or form indicating I believe Gettleman and the Giants will approach negotiations that way. I am saying that is how I have handled my negotiations as a litigator when I was trying cases. When I had a losing hand, I paid fair value to settle. When I had a winning hand, I laid down my terms and took a "take it or leave it position" - but made clear that I would not negotiate one penny off my terms. And I never did.
RE: There's a reason..  
baadbill : 1/3/2019 12:54 pm : link
In comment 14246010 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the Players Association has put protections in place to keep straight pay cuts from happening.

It is because the salary leverage is predominantly with the team. Players are only guaranteed their guaranteed money and salary in future year's is on paper only.

those protections aren't put in place for the Eli Mannings of the world, they are put in place fro the average player, but everyone is afforded those protections.

it is most definitely a laughable position to take



Well, I know zero about the protections of the Union - they may very well make it impossible to negotiate on a take it or leave it basis. But I don't see why DG (who knows the cap savings he would want - unlike me) couldn't adopt a "take it or leave it" position with Manning on the money issue (whatever DG's bottom line is). My point being the money is relevant to Manning's agent, but it isn't relevant to Manning himself - at least not financially relevant to Manning.
They don't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 12:56 pm : link
hold all the cards since Eli is under contract.

If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.

There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.
baadbill...  
bw in dc : 1/3/2019 1:00 pm : link
I hate to nit-pick here by $23M is material to Eli's net worth. Even after taxes.
RE: They don't..  
baadbill : 1/3/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14246033 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
hold all the cards since Eli is under contract.

If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.

There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.


Well, there is a negotiation to be had if Manning wants to play football in 2019. Chances are it is with the Giants or nobody. And DG and the Giants hold 100% of those cards. The only question is how badly does Manning want to play?
But if it is a situation where it would hurt the Giants to release  
baadbill : 1/3/2019 1:05 pm : link
Manning and have to pay Manning and another QB, then maybe the Giants don't hold all the cards. I don't know enough about football finances to know the answer to that question and I'm making the assumption that the Giants probably feel they are better off releasing Manning if he won't agree to help with the cap. But if that's wrong, then I wouldn't be able to take a "take it or leave it" position.
$23 mill might be chump change  
section125 : 1/3/2019 1:07 pm : link
to Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. It is not chump change to Eli. $23 mill isn't even chump change to a billionaire.
RE: $23 mill might be chump change  
baadbill : 1/3/2019 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14246045 section125 said:
Quote:
to Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. It is not chump change to Eli. $23 mill isn't even chump change to a billionaire.


That's ludicrous. It absolutely is chump change to a billionaire. Two percent of a billion dollars is 20 million dollars. Two percent is the amount of money my stock portfolio (with only 35% in the stock market) goes up and down most days. It's chump change.
RE: They don't..  
bw in dc : 1/3/2019 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14246033 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
hold all the cards since Eli is under contract.

If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.

There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.


If Eli wants to retire as a Giant, having played for just one team, there is motivation to negotiate.
RE: $23 mill might be chump change  
baadbill : 1/3/2019 1:20 pm : link
In comment 14246045 section125 said:
Quote:
to Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. It is not chump change to Eli. $23 mill isn't even chump change to a billionaire.


But what is apparently true is that I'm wrong about Manning's net worth. I just googled it and the top two answers say ~100 million dollars. I figured he was much closer to a billion dollars, not just 1 hundred million. I'm also surprised with his endorsements on top of his salary and the fact the stock market basically quadrupled during his career. But, clearly if he is "only" worth one hundred million, then $23 million is very significant.
Choices  
Percy : 1/3/2019 5:30 pm : link
C is the winner. Hard to believe people here are going on and on about it. Team isn't weak enough for you yet quite apart from Eli? Doesn't need new players on both sides of the ball (without whom the QB, whoever he is, can't win reliably)?
RE: RE: $23 mill might be chump change  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/4/2019 7:15 am : link
In comment 14246055 baadbill said:
Quote:
In comment 14246045 section125 said:


Quote:


to Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. It is not chump change to Eli. $23 mill isn't even chump change to a billionaire.



But what is apparently true is that I'm wrong about Manning's net worth. I just googled it and the top two answers say ~100 million dollars. I figured he was much closer to a billion dollars, not just 1 hundred million. I'm also surprised with his endorsements on top of his salary and the fact the stock market basically quadrupled during his career. But, clearly if he is "only" worth one hundred million, then $23 million is very significant.


That can't be true simply on the basis of his football contracts alone he's taken home more than $200m.

His rookie deal was 48m, He signed a 6 year deal in 2010 worth 97m and then a 4 year extension after 2015 worth 84m.
I'm not sure what DG wants the other GMs to think  
nicky43 : 1/4/2019 7:35 am : link
but I'm certain he doesn't want to reveal his hand as it could negatively impact his draft.

RE: RE: RE: $23 mill might be chump change  
YAJ2112 : 1/4/2019 9:28 am : link
In comment 14246827 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14246055 baadbill said:


Quote:


In comment 14246045 section125 said:


Quote:


to Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. It is not chump change to Eli. $23 mill isn't even chump change to a billionaire.



But what is apparently true is that I'm wrong about Manning's net worth. I just googled it and the top two answers say ~100 million dollars. I figured he was much closer to a billion dollars, not just 1 hundred million. I'm also surprised with his endorsements on top of his salary and the fact the stock market basically quadrupled during his career. But, clearly if he is "only" worth one hundred million, then $23 million is very significant.



That can't be true simply on the basis of his football contracts alone he's taken home more than $200m.

His rookie deal was 48m, He signed a 6 year deal in 2010 worth 97m and then a 4 year extension after 2015 worth 84m.


um there is this thing called taxes that ate about half of that before he spent a penny.
RE: RE: RE: $23 mill might be chump change  
baadbill : 1/4/2019 10:58 am : link
In comment 14246827 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14246055 baadbill said:


Quote:


In comment 14246045 section125 said:


Quote:


to Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. It is not chump change to Eli. $23 mill isn't even chump change to a billionaire.



But what is apparently true is that I'm wrong about Manning's net worth. I just googled it and the top two answers say ~100 million dollars. I figured he was much closer to a billion dollars, not just 1 hundred million. I'm also surprised with his endorsements on top of his salary and the fact the stock market basically quadrupled during his career. But, clearly if he is "only" worth one hundred million, then $23 million is very significant.



That can't be true simply on the basis of his football contracts alone he's taken home more than $200m.

His rookie deal was 48m, He signed a 6 year deal in 2010 worth 97m and then a 4 year extension after 2015 worth 84m.


Yea, that's why I assumed his net worth was in the multiples of hundreds of thousands of dollars... and I obviously can't vouch for the google responses... but the first two sites listed both had his net worth at $100,000 ...

But even if that's not exactly right, if his net worth is closer to 100 million than it is to 900 million, then $23 is going to still be significant... and my entire initial scenario was based upon my assumption that the $23 million was so insignificant to Manning's net worth that the finances weren't going to be a factor in Manning's decision making - and now I think I was wrong about that.

That's not to say the Giants still can't take a position that if he wants to play football, then he will have to bow to the Giants terms (whatever they may be) - on a take it or leave it basis - but it is still different than the non-factor I thought it was.
TTH  
baadbill : 1/4/2019 10:59 am : link
$23 ... I meant that to be $23 million
RE: They don't..  
christian : 1/4/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14246033 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
hold all the cards since Eli is under contract.

If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.

There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.


There is room between 6M and 23M, and there is also the leverage of whether he wants to move or be away from his young family to pursue another job.
RE: They don't..  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/4/2019 11:41 am : link
In comment 14246033 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
hold all the cards since Eli is under contract.

If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.

There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.

What guaranteed money? He's already gotten his signing bonus, obviously, but his remaining bonuses aren't guaranteed if he's released before he receives them. His motivation would be to earn something, especially if his agent senses that the FA market might not be particularly bullish for Eli.

In return for a pay cut, Eli could rightfully request that his 2019 compensation (however it might be structured) be fully guaranteed at the time of execution.
It would seem Eli's roster bonus of $5M is a key  
JonC : 1/4/2019 11:47 am : link
unless something happens before it's paid or declined. Declining it is an opportunity for a clean mutual break.
RE: Great..  
RinR : 1/4/2019 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14245527 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the DSG fuckhead is back.

For the uninformed, this tool created the derogatory term DSG for some unknown fucking reason.


DSG? His middle name is Alan.

What does this dupe say the "S" is?
He..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/4/2019 12:18 pm : link
said it was "Shithead". Awesome fucking poster
RE: RE: They don't..  
Diver_Down : 1/4/2019 12:39 pm : link
In comment 14247216 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14246033 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


hold all the cards since Eli is under contract.

If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.

There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.


What guaranteed money? He's already gotten his signing bonus, obviously, but his remaining bonuses aren't guaranteed if he's released before he receives them. His motivation would be to earn something, especially if his agent senses that the FA market might not be particularly bullish for Eli.

In return for a pay cut, Eli could rightfully request that his 2019 compensation (however it might be structured) be fully guaranteed at the time of execution.


GD - I thought our discussion on a structure was a reasonable compromise. Not sure you remember the details, but it entailed a waiving of the roster bonuses in exchange for guaranteed reduced salaries. Even with a reduction, I suggested that a floor for a cut was the equivalent of Josh McCown's yearly cash ($10M). So the savings comes by eliminating $5M of the RB and $1.5M in salary, but the trade-off is that they salary is guaranteed.
RE: The pay cut idea makes no sense...  
Beer Man : 1/4/2019 1:19 pm : link
In comment 14245505 Scuzzlebutt said:
Quote:
Who are they going to sign to a 1 year deal for less money than the cap savings from cutting Eli?
No one, plus when you consider the dead money hit, it could cost more
RE: RE: RE: They don't..  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/4/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14247292 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14247216 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14246033 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


hold all the cards since Eli is under contract.

If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.

There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.


What guaranteed money? He's already gotten his signing bonus, obviously, but his remaining bonuses aren't guaranteed if he's released before he receives them. His motivation would be to earn something, especially if his agent senses that the FA market might not be particularly bullish for Eli.

In return for a pay cut, Eli could rightfully request that his 2019 compensation (however it might be structured) be fully guaranteed at the time of execution.



GD - I thought our discussion on a structure was a reasonable compromise. Not sure you remember the details, but it entailed a waiving of the roster bonuses in exchange for guaranteed reduced salaries. Even with a reduction, I suggested that a floor for a cut was the equivalent of Josh McCown's yearly cash ($10M). So the savings comes by eliminating $5M of the RB and $1.5M in salary, but the trade-off is that they salary is guaranteed.

Agreed - I think that would be reasonable for all parties, and while $6.5MM of cap space isn't some enormous number, it should largely offset the 1st year cap hit of a decent FA OL, which makes it seem especially fair (if Eli is going to agree to take less money, it would be nice if the money was spent to help keep him upright in 2019 while also building the roster for beyond).
IMO - If the Giants like any of the available FA QB's (long term)  
LG in NYC : 1/4/2019 2:28 pm : link
or they believe Lauletta has a decent future... or... they really like one of the potential QB draft picks then they should cut ties with Eli and move on NOW.

if the above is not true, then they should let Eli play out his contract ($$ notwithstanding) and deal with the QB situation in 2020.

It is silly, IMO, to cut Eli and sign some middling FA to hold the fort for a year when the resulting $$ will essentially be the same.
RE: IMO - If the Giants like any of the available FA QB's (long term)  
dep026 : 1/4/2019 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14247470 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
or they believe Lauletta has a decent future... or... they really like one of the potential QB draft picks then they should cut ties with Eli and move on NOW.

if the above is not true, then they should let Eli play out his contract ($$ notwithstanding) and deal with the QB situation in 2020.

It is silly, IMO, to cut Eli and sign some middling FA to hold the fort for a year when the resulting $$ will essentially be the same.


I agree with 110% Eve though I am not a Haskins fan. If they cut Eli.... I'd much prefer them go with a rookie or Lauletta then a Foles/bridgewater/etc.... or trade for a guy like Brisset or Carr.
dep  
LG in NYC : 1/4/2019 2:34 pm : link
Unless our staff likes Foles, Brisset or one of these other guys as a long term solution. Obviously we can disagree with them (or each other) on specific names... but if Shurmur and DG have a conviction about one of these young vets as our next long term QB (ala Kerry Collins) then have at it. Pay them and let's move on.

if not, don't band aid it for 1 year with a scrub like McCown or Fitzpatrick.
RE: IMO - If the Giants like any of the available FA QB's (long term)  
ron mexico : 1/4/2019 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14247470 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
or they believe Lauletta has a decent future... or... they really like one of the potential QB draft picks then they should cut ties with Eli and move on NOW.

if the above is not true, then they should let Eli play out his contract ($$ notwithstanding) and deal with the QB situation in 2020.

It is silly, IMO, to cut Eli and sign some middling FA to hold the fort for a year when the resulting $$ will essentially be the same.


what about a high draft pick and a middling FA (whose resulting $$ will absolutely not be the same)
RE: Great..  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/4/2019 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14245527 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the DSG fuckhead is back.

For the uninformed, this tool created the derogatory term DSG for some unknown fucking reason.


Wait I'm not familiar with this troll/dupe. Please enlighten me.
ron  
LG in NYC : 1/4/2019 2:43 pm : link
If we draft a QB high I would rather him play right away then start some schlub for half the season.

Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.

RE: ron  
ron mexico : 1/4/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14247484 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
If we draft a QB high I would rather him play right away then start some schlub for half the season.

Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.


Eli's dead cap is $6 mil
Fitz, McCown or Schaubb would cost about $5 mil.
A 1st round rookie will have a $4mil cap hit.

15 mil is still significantly less than 22 mil (Eli's cap hit on the roster).



11 mil is a lot less than $17 mil
ignore that last line  
ron mexico : 1/4/2019 2:51 pm : link
editing mistake
RE: RE: RE: RE: They don't..  
Diver_Down : 1/4/2019 2:53 pm : link
In comment 14247457 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14247292 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 14247216 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 14246033 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


hold all the cards since Eli is under contract.

If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.

There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.


What guaranteed money? He's already gotten his signing bonus, obviously, but his remaining bonuses aren't guaranteed if he's released before he receives them. His motivation would be to earn something, especially if his agent senses that the FA market might not be particularly bullish for Eli.

In return for a pay cut, Eli could rightfully request that his 2019 compensation (however it might be structured) be fully guaranteed at the time of execution.



GD - I thought our discussion on a structure was a reasonable compromise. Not sure you remember the details, but it entailed a waiving of the roster bonuses in exchange for guaranteed reduced salaries. Even with a reduction, I suggested that a floor for a cut was the equivalent of Josh McCown's yearly cash ($10M). So the savings comes by eliminating $5M of the RB and $1.5M in salary, but the trade-off is that they salary is guaranteed.


Agreed - I think that would be reasonable for all parties, and while $6.5MM of cap space isn't some enormous number, it should largely offset the 1st year cap hit of a decent FA OL, which makes it seem especially fair (if Eli is going to agree to take less money, it would be nice if the money was spent to help keep him upright in 2019 while also building the roster for beyond).


I tried searching the archives, but with no results. People who are demanding a pay cut have to be reasonable. Some just want to demand a pound of flesh for the crappy seasons that fans have endured. But for those that demand Eli to play for $6M-$8M, well in BBI fashion, I'll state an opinion as certainty - It is not going to happen.
RE: ron  
bw in dc : 1/4/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14247484 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
If we draft a QB high I would rather him play right away then start some schlub for half the season.

Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.


That's always been my preferred strategy - draft a QB and play him right away. Getting experience is just as critical as winning games.

Or, I'd trade for Jeff Driskel. See if we could pry him away from Cincinnati. Filled in very respectably for Dalton. Only 25, athletic, and with a very good arm. Run sub 4.6 at the Combine a few years ago. Has the attributes that may be appealing to Shurmur.

RE: RE: ron  
giants#1 : 1/4/2019 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14247489 ron mexico said:
Quote:
In comment 14247484 LG in NYC said:


Quote:


If we draft a QB high I would rather him play right away then start some schlub for half the season.

Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.




Eli's dead cap is $6 mil
Fitz, McCown or Schaubb would cost about $5 mil.
A 1st round rookie will have a $4mil cap hit.

15 mil is still significantly less than 22 mil (Eli's cap hit on the roster).



11 mil is a lot less than $17 mil


McCown got $10M this season.
RE: RE: RE: ron  
ron mexico : 1/4/2019 3:40 pm : link
In comment 14247501 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247489 ron mexico said:


Quote:


In comment 14247484 LG in NYC said:


Quote:


If we draft a QB high I would rather him play right away then start some schlub for half the season.

Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.




Eli's dead cap is $6 mil
Fitz, McCown or Schaubb would cost about $5 mil.
A 1st round rookie will have a $4mil cap hit.

15 mil is still significantly less than 22 mil (Eli's cap hit on the roster).



11 mil is a lot less than $17 mil



McCown got $10M this season.


do you think his value went up? what about the other two?
ron  
LG in NYC : 1/4/2019 4:07 pm : link
I'll leave the $$ discussions to others.

I have ZERO interest in watching McCown or Fitz or guys like that play QB for the Giants. None. I don't care what the savings might be.

Give me a young FA (Foles, Brissett, etc) that Shurmur & Co believe could be the next franchise QB... or a high draft pick... or Lauletta. Or, let Eli play out his final year and we'll deal with this in 2020.
RE: RE: ron  
Jimmy Googs : 1/4/2019 4:24 pm : link
In comment 14247498 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14247484 LG in NYC said:


Quote:


If we draft a QB high I would rather him play right away then start some schlub for half the season.

Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.




That's always been my preferred strategy - draft a QB and play him right away. Getting experience is just as critical as winning games.

Or, I'd trade for Jeff Driskel. See if we could pry him away from Cincinnati. Filled in very respectably for Dalton. Only 25, athletic, and with a very good arm. Run sub 4.6 at the Combine a few years ago. Has the attributes that may be appealing to Shurmur.


Agree on the play fairly early and make mistakes strategy.

Try, fail, learn, try again, improve, fail less, improve more, etc
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